[Closed] Tube drivers - bunch of *****

are you working boxing day?

Bob Crow say sorry.

[img] [/img]

Fair enough to expect some kind of 'compensation' for working boxing day, but triple pay plus day in lieu really is taking the mickey.

What do you think would be fair?

I love the idea of them voting to lose five days pay because they want three day's pay...(edit: one day's pay, actually!)

And they earn £50k pa! 😯

day in lieu and normal pay, is pretty standard.
or double time and no day in lieu.

all pretty standard

Haven't we automated those things yet, then?

Sancho - Member
day in lieu and normal pay, is pretty standard.
or double time and no day in lieu.

all pretty standard

I'm with this. It must be in their contract; the recompense they get for working bank holidays....they took the job, they knew that their shifts might mean they have to work bank holidays...

warton - Member
are you working boxing day?

What relevance does this have?

You enter into a contract with your employer; for example 37.5hrs/week, 9am-5pm.
They have entered into a contract that means they work shifts and might have to work bank holidays. Boo hoo.

Haven't we automated those things yet, then?

They still need someone to feed the dog

Im a train driver and even I think thats bloody scandalous. Im rostered to work the public holidays at New Year and will get a days wage plus a day In Lieu.

Warning - very sweary, not at all safe for kids or work. VERY funny though

Most industries will get double time or a day in lieu. Some (but very, very few) will get both.

Triple and a day in lieu is astonishing.

Wonder what will happen after the 'lympics. Once that's out of the way and the industrial blackmail leverage Crow wields has lessened then will be interesting 🙂

are you working boxing day?

Can't wait to see what utterly ridiculous demands Bob Crowe comes up with next year when the Olypmics are on.

All staff to be awarded Gold Medals 😀

greedy buggers

It stems from a weak management and a union that keeps getting its way.

They seem to be able to keep pushing and invariably keep getting what they want so now they feel emboldened to go for more.

A ridiculous state of affairs, and a unbelievable request for remuneration.

Where's Lieu and why are they so keen to get there?

Haven't we automated those things yet, then?

These guys can't live in the real world. Personally given all the issues with people losing jobs / taking pay cuts etc... I would not be able to demand such a silly amount even if I knew I had a big nasty union that would cause lots of trouble if it wasn't honoured. Pure greed.

I work in retail, don't earn anywhere near as much as a tube driver. with a previous employer I used to have to work most bank holidays .. standard pay, and a day in lieu.

Not my area of retail, but while you're swanning round the sales, spare a thought for the poor sods who have to work in the jumble sale that is just about any high street fashion/electronics/grocery shop on the 27th of Dec.

Christmas isn't a great time for your average sales assistant

EDIT: even any average Saturday in a Primark (following around the missus on a rare saturday off) is pretty shocking

2nd EDIT: Common Sense would have said [s]things[/s] oops, folks like tube/train/bus drivers would have realised it's a 24/7/365 job when you sign on the dotted line. Fool the employers if that wasn't spelled out in the original contracts i'm sure new contracts will be

Triple pay plus day in lieu sounds perfectly reasonable to me. That's what everyone's getting, isn't it? plus an advent calender with a golden egg behind every door. And a company credit card with a 5 grand limit to do your christmas shopping on? No? A pet panda? And a private christmas day party performance at home with the X factor finalist of your childrens choice? not that either?

Oh... erm.... sorry....perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned it

Where's Lieu

cornwall int it?

Triple pay and a day in lieu is nt "fair" but since when did fair come in the equation with wage negations ?

Its aslo not "fair" that london underground are sacking loads of ticket staff and replacing them with automated machines, but these things happen.

Until employers start taking "fair" into account for negotiations I reckon the tube drivers should try and ring as much as possible out of them.

They are going to be automated at some point so what would the reason for the tube drivers to accept less ? Like I say the ticket staff have been replaced even though they earn a whole lot less.

So earning less will probably only put off automation by a year or two when it happens for the tube drivers.

outrageous, not like those nice cuddly bank people who didn't cause any recessions and earn those completely reasonable bonuses.

Who knows, maybe if there'd been more tube strikes, the City's fianancial institutions might have ground to a stop, then we might not have the problems we have now.

Its aslo not "fair" that london underground are sacking loads of ticket staff and replacing them with automated machines,

So easy just switch the power off on boxing day, equals no trains, and allt hose miserable londers, stay in the house, or visit freinds by walking or driving.

So simple yet some overpaid muppet hasnt worked that one out.

Its aslo not "fair" that london underground are sacking loads of ticket staff and replacing them with automated machines,

Why not?

Im not the one complaining it not fair everyone else is.

Obviously tube drivers are vital to the running of the capital and they are using this leverage to get as well paid as possible, just the same as everybody else.

😯

Erm.... daft but valid question: Where was everyone going on boxing day on the tube anyway? Thats sooooooooooo important eh?

Surely you'll be spending the day welded to the sofa, eating left-over turkey, watching James Bond, and periodically lifting a cheek up to pass wind like a huge German anti tank gun. Only rising from your torpor, to pad through to the kitchen in your new Christmas slippers to grab another beer from the fridge.

Southerners? I'll never understand 'em 😀

true !

How hard can driving a train be?

Friend of mine is an airline Pilot with Monarch, He's been a fully fledged pilot now for three years and earns less than 50K per year. He trained for two years (self financed) then progressed to a supporting role for a year and a half with an airline. After a further three years as a co-pilot he became a fully fledged commercial pilot, flying 737's. Thats 5 Yrs+ in training. How long does it take to become a tube driver?

If you have seen inside a cockpit of a 737 its pretty complicated. If you have seen inside a tube cab you will know its not, the biggest bit on the dashboard is the drivers sandwich box.!

Go figure.!

How hard can driving a train be?

Sounds fair to me.

Modern businesses shaft their employees. Good to see it work the other way.

(Is it just me that has noticed the URL and content, swear filter mis-match. I think I'm outraged. :roll:)

Yeah! Right on comrade! Rise up against the fascist bastards! Ruthlessly oppressing their enslaved minions. The poor sods desperately scraping by on 50 grand a year!

Throw off your chains brothers!!! 🙄

So they are wanting to change the pay and conditions they signed up to? 😉

I suspect

[img] [/img]

will be lining up these

[img] [/img]

Sounds fair to me.
Modern businesses shaft their employees. Good to see it work the other way.

I’m guessing you don’t have to pay the extortionate amount they charge for tube fares?

I reckon the equal pay commission should do something like this, worldwide of course as it needs to be now adays. ps (thinking hard burns more calories than you think)

Average pay per hour in Country/County/Area * (Calories burnt per hour of work + Calories burnt per year of education(or average calories need to be burnt to attain exams grades)) * Danger in job * vitalness factor * responsibility of work = Average pay for that type of work

This would give an average pay for that type of job and employers could pay up to say twice that amount or down to half that amount.

Obviously you would need to rate Danger in job/vitalness factor and responsibility of work

I think Danger in Job could quite easily be worked out from casualty figures.

Responsibilty would need to be rated on how many people you are directly responsible for. ie School Teacher 30 / Train Driver on average 100 Research Scientist 1.

Then Vitalness is obviously the hardness one to rate maybe something to do with average GDP creation per hours work ?

I reckon something like Oil Rig Manger would work out to be the best paid.

Ie Lots of education needed/very dangerous/lots with responsibility and vital to the economy.

For all the whingers:

If you all joined your trade union, so they had 100% membership, or even close to that, then everyone might be on treble time and a day in lieu for working on Boxing Day.

Just a thought.

Good on 'em I say.

I'm rostered to work Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, and New Year's Eve / Day this year and accept it as bad luck and part of the job. Don't get anything extra for the days in question either.

I'm rostered to work Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, and New Year's Eve / Day this year and accept it as bad luck and part of the job. Don't get anything extra for the days in question either.

But if you were part of a union that was trying to organise something extra for you would you support them ?

are you working boxing day?

Doubletime I could understand (or just take it as holiday and not work).

But why would anyone want 4days pay for one days work?

Who do they think they are? Union Leaders?

But why would anyone want 4days pay for one days work

A footballer ?

But why would anyone want 40 days pay for one days work

A banker?

A footballer ?

Do you think footballers turn up for match day then disapear until the next match? 🙄

Police/emergency services, nurses etc don't get a choice. They do it.

Sadly I wish they could get time in lieu if they worked Christmas day etc 🙁

Greedy buggers 😡

Police/emergency services, nurses etc don't get a choice. They do it.

Oh, that's ok then, we should just accept it.

Sadly I wish they could get time in lieu if they worked Christmas day etc

If they all joined their union and campaigned for such things, they could.

Do you think footballers turn up for match day then disapear until the next match?

No course I dont ! I love footy and know what hard work they must of put in a kids. But once they make it to professional you can only train for so long each day.

I cant see they can train for more than half a day (4 -5 hours) for 3 or 4 days a week. They will need say 1 or 2 rest day a week. And then maybe either 1 or 2 match days where most of their work is actually travelling to the game.

It's a classic example of unions wielding too much power.
Im not arguing for the bankers.

However, I think its poor to be making stupid demands like this and then holding the employer to ransom.

just stupid in my view.

If you all joined your trade union, so they had 100% membership, or even close to that, then everyone might be on treble time and a day in lieu for working on Boxing Day.

Of course these fantastic conditions for all would come at no extra cost. Anyway, I'm with Binners on this one. Why would you want to travel round on the underground when there's still gluttony to be had at home?

Flaperon - Member

I'm rostered to work Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, and New Year's Eve / Day this year and accept it as bad luck and part of the job. Don't get anything extra for the days in question either.

Just 'cos you are happy to be rodgered by your bosses doesn't mean everyone has to

Police/emergency services, nurses etc don't get a choice. They do it.

Sadly I wish they could get time in lieu if they worked Christmas day etc

Guess what - they get time and 60% plus a day in lieu.

Of course these fantastic conditions for all would come at no extra cost

If they reduced all these peoples pay to say £100,000 that would go someway.

Peter Hendy, Commissioner: £332,276
Steve Allen, Managing Director, Finance: £268,982
Mike Brown, Managing Director, London Underground: £285,230
Howard Carter, General Counsel: £219,156
Leon Daniels, Managing Director, Surface Transport: £97,000
Michèle Dix, Managing Director, Planning: £147,766
Vernon Everitt, Managing Director, Group Marketing and Communications: £230,310
Sarah Atkins, Commercial Director, Tube Lines: £188,476
Ian Campbell, Chief Information Officer: £166,065
Howard Collins, Chief Operating Officer, London Underground: £202,281
Stephen Critchley, Chief Finance Officer: £179,488
Frank Douglas, Group Human Resources Director: £192,387
Robert Doyle, Head of Track and Signals, London Underground: £175,119
Gerald Duffy, Director of Employee Relations, London Underground: £174,067
Garrett Emmerson, Chief Operating Officer Streets, Surface Transport: £182,675
David Hendry, Finance Director, Surface Transport: £179,348
Philip Hufton, Asset Performance Director, London Underground: £284,626
Richard Parry, Strategy and Commercial Director, London Underground: £217,859
Ben Plowden, Director of Better Routes and Places, Surface Transport: £176,777
Peter Regan, Corporate Finance Director: £220,877
Geoff Virrels, Director of Projects, Tube Lines: £131,095
David Waboso, Director of Capital Programmes, London Underground: £203,592
Terry Morgan, Non-executive Chairman, Crossrail: £251, 632
Rob Holden, Chief Executive, Crossrail: £857, 134
David Allen, Finance Director, Crossrail: £268,842
Neil Farmer, IT Director, Crossrail: £169,567
Andy Mitchell, Programme Director, Crossrail: £326,981

If you reduced Peter Hendy, Commissioner for TFL £332,276 pay to £100,000 you would have £232,276. TFL has 4,064 staff you could give each of them a £60 pay increase. (including Peter)

Or if you reduced Rob Holden, Chief Executive, Crossrail: £857, 134 pay to 100,000 you could give them £186.30 pay rise.

Im sure if you added them all together you get like a grand pay rise for everyone.

But if you were part of a union that was trying to organise something extra for you would you support them

No, because I think they're taking the piss. I knew from the moment I got the job that public holidays are just another workday.

If they reduced all these peoples pay to say £100,000 that would go someway.

Would you include Bob Crow and his £133,138 annual package in that list ?

The bosses arent trying to roger them ffs.
they just want more than they are contracted for at the moment.

Those wages look like a piss take, may explain a lot about the unions stance.

agree with OP....

sod em. surely this kind of action accelerates the introduction of driverless trains (DLR works fine without a driver). if they weren't such a bunch of jumped up monkeys they'd be safer - long term - in their jobs.

it breeds resentment amongst joe public and they won't care if there is a driver earning 50k controlling their train or a computer system and a couple of bods in a ontrol room overseeing it. all they want to do is get to where they need to go reliably and on time.

and so what if you have to work boxing day. are they going to start demanding the same terms for other bank holidays?

bob crow.... hurry up and crow it... (see what i did there?)

What was the result last year then?

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/13/tube-drivers-boxing-day-strike ]Dec 2010[/url]

agree with OP....

sod em. surely this kind of action accelerates the introduction of driverless trains (DLR works fine without a driver). if they weren't such a bunch of jumped up monkeys they'd be safer - long term - in their jobs.

Disagree earning £25,000 in London is pointless you just end up giving it to your landlord.

If you earn £50,000 you can try and save for a deposit and buy a house.

£50,000 is one year is worth alot more than £25,000 for two years.

They'll be safer if they can get a mortgage going and then get another job when the the trains are automated.

If earning less is safer why dont cheif executives take pay cuts ? To make sure there business is safe ?

Would you include Bob Crow and his £133,138 annual package in that list ?

What exactly does Bob Crow do for that salary?

"50,000 is one year is worth alot more than £25,000 for two years

😯

Would you include Bob Crow and his £133,138 annual package in that list ?

yes but presumably his union member pay that not TFL.

"£50,000 in one year is worth alot more than £25,000 for two years

How do you disagree with that ?

1. Inflation
2. Savings Interest
3. Possible Mortgage deposit therefore avoiding rent.
4. Mortgage over payments therefore avoiding interest.
4. Other investment opportunities.

I agree with the boxing day sofa idea.
Shut the tubes, shut the shops as one of these much needed Austerity Measures, all stay home with your families and finish those turkeys.

This year i am working christmas eve, christmas day, boxing day, NYE and NYD and don't get anthing extra, the joys of having to feed and water the masses!

Disagree earning £25,000 in London is pointless you just end up giving it to your landlord.

If you earn £50,000 you can try and save for a deposit and buy a house.

£50,000 is one year is worth alot more than £25,000 for two years.

They'll be safer if they can get a mortgage going and then get another job when the the trains are automated.

that's a pointless argument as they are already recieving 45k/yr. their pay isn't being cut. they want (what many people believe to be) a massive increase for their days work as opposed to getting (what many people would believe to be) an already good deal. why should they hold their bosses to ransom?

Tube drivers already earn £45,545 per year but their salaries are set to soar to a £52,000 per year basic wage by 2015.

They are also being paid an extra £1,200 'Olympics bonus' for working the three weeks during the games next summer.

In addition, they get 43 days of holiday a year and a 35-hour working week.

i'd work for 45k/yr inc. 43 days where i don't have to work yet still recieve money and all that for 35hrs/week.

Mick Whelan, general secretary of the union, told the Evening Standard: 'Obviously working Boxing Day and other bank holidays means unsocial hours for our members.

fortunately for society the majority of those in service industries see this as part of the job. as do many of those that work in retail or the self employed (i.e. me).

£230K for Group Marketing - incredible?

Rob Holden, Chief Executive, Crossrail: £857,134

Sweet Jesus!!!!! WTF does he do to warrant that? is he the man that paves the London streets with gold when Bob Diamond is a bit busy

well seeing as inflation is just less than 5%.

45,545 * 1.05 = 47822

It should go up to £47,822 next year so £52,000 by 2015 does sound too out of place.

Its just everyone else pay is frozen so we are losing money.

why should they hold their bosses to ransom?

in a perfect world they should nt hold there bosses to ransom. But in a perfect world Rob Holden, Chief Executive, Crossrail would nt be paid £857,134.

In principle I agree it would be best if people didnt strike and there was some board that could award the correct level of pay to everyone. But this system does nt exist.

I dont understand why for so many people a tube driver earning £50,000 makes them more angry than Chief Executive earning £857,134.

If the pay at top ever became "fair" then we could start looking at whether tube drivers pay is "fair".

tube travellers should go on strike on Boxing day and use the bus so that the tube company ***** get no revenue to pay for their ridiculous wage demands.

Guess what - they get time and 60% plus a day in lieu.

No they don't at least I can guarantee you that Ambulance service staff don't get time plus 60% and a day in lieu. We get 7.5 hours time in lieu back for working Christmas Day or Boxing Day despite working a 12 hour shift.
This has been the same for at least the past 5 or 6 years.

What's the tube?
And how will this affect me?

Wisepranker - are you not on agenda for change rates? The day in lieu is one of your PH / Al days - the 7.5 hrs is the equivalent of the 60% but I am suprised you are taking it in time not pay. Never heard of that.

Just don't run the underground on Boxing day.

Then introduce driverless trains.

Sorted.

What exactly does Bob Crow do for that salary?

He's worth every ****ing penny of it and funnily enough, the London Underground workers don't seem to want to get rid of him do they? If I was a London Underground worker, I'd be delighted to have Bob Crowe fighting my ground for me because he'd be getting me a decent wage in London, where it's bloody expensive to live, he'd be sticking it to my employers every time they tried to shaft me...again! And lastly, he pisses off people like you hora. That's worth a few days in lieu in itself.

50k in london is still a decent wage. many jobs in town pay <20k/yr. now that is a crap wage.