[Closed] Trying to settle an argument

I can't believe that some people still believe the 'moon landing' took place.

Next you'll be saying that Diana died in an 'accident' ..... ffs

If he's not convinced already I doubt anything else will help.

I'm not sure you can get a photo of the lander or rover. It's 250,000 miles away and they are only a few metres across.

But if he gets a laser he can bounce it off the mirror they left up there.

I know, I know but his theory is that no pic has ever been taken because there's nothing there...and it did get me thinking why this might be!

Just for a moment, let's assume it was actually possible to photograph something so small, so far away. wouldn't he just counter that whatever photo you showed him was "photo-shopped"?

Best let him be an idiot and have other folk make fun of him.

Mmmm you're probably right but just thinking about it wouldn't a telescope or the Hubble telescope be able to do it?

It would be fairly easy to fake a picture - why is your mate so trusting of pictures?

There was a picture of a double decker bus on the moon once, followed up in the same paper the next week by an undoctored pic and the headline "Double decker bus disappears from the moon".

I suggest he asks [url=

no

no - to hubble question

...also, if they parked the lunar rover behind the bus it wouldn't show up. It wouldn't mean it wasn't there though...

wouldn't a telescope or the Hubble telescope be able to do it?

I don't think Hubble can focus on something that close! Only 1/4 million miles.

It would be fairly easy to fake a picture

Absolutely.

As is wonderfully illustrated here :

[img] [/img]

[url= ]Here's a recent piccy of a lunar rover taken from earth for you.[/url]

What about a terrestrial telescope then?

There's a mirror or some such reflector that was left by one of the mission so that NASA could take accurate distance measurements.

[url= http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhelp/ApolloLaser.html ]Left by one of the missons [/url]

er...aracer it would really need to be the one left on the moon...oh, I see, you're joking, I get it 🙂

Of course, there is the possibility that NASA failed to get any real footage off the Moon, and had a 'contingency plan'.

I'm not going to deny categorically, that Mankind has ever stepped on the Moon or not, as I was not there myself to witness it, but that flag, fluttering in the 'breeze'? Come on...

Anyone who unquestionably believes everything the Americans claim, is a bigger fool than anyone who has a penchant for metal foil headgear. The Yanks had too much at stake, for the Moon missions to fail. And for a country who's government has lied on numerous occasions, I woon't put it past them at all.

nickc - I thought that lasers became unreliable when fired through the Earth's atmosphere?

RudeBoy - I know where you're coming from.

So Tyger is your "mate" still not convinced?

* s****s *

On balance I believe NASA's evidence more than I believe anything you've asserted Rudeboy, boils down to that essentially

I'm convinced but his argument is appearing annoyingly still valid.

Thread no good without pictures.

Nico - LOL!

There's not really an argument, it's just a bunch of random "stuff" and noise that makes it seem like there's a coherent conspiracy. It's all pretty low level bits and pieces that can be easily shown to be, not to put to finer a point on it, crap.

They went to the Moon, they came back, that's pretty much the start, middle and finish of it really. People are free to believe what they want, don't change it though.

I'm not saying it's all lies, get a grip. I'm merely hypothesising that considering the globally significance and importance of the Moon landings, I doubt the Yanks wooduv relied entirely on the possibility that footage from the Moon would in fact be viewable. Do you really think, during that Cold War period, the Yanks wooduv risked losing face, and being the object of ridicule for the World's press? Would they bollocks. That fluttering flag is proof of such 'contingency plans'.

Oh, and the film in the cameras, used to take such wonderful images, would not have been sufficient temperature for the chemical reaction to take place, in order to have silver halide crystals react to light. The surface of the moon, being devoid of an atmosphere, would be proper bastard cold, well below the effective range in which film can work. The material itself wooduv been extremely brittle, and prone to cracking. Those cameras had no heating systems. They conveniently left the cameras on the Moon, and only brought back the film...

Nice studio shots, though! 😀

but that flag, fluttering in the 'breeze'? Come on

Rudy - the flag didn't 'flutter in the breeze'. Check it out here :

However, that clip is definitely a hoax. Because everyone knows that there's no gravity on the moon, so that herbert jumping about all over the place would just have taken off into outer space.

[u]Plus[/u] he's not even doing the proper 'moon walk' ffs

.....they must think we're all stupid or something.

Oh, and when James May was driving the Lunar Rover thing, it had a petrol engine, rather than the leccy one the 'real' ones wooduv had to use. 'Cos of course, a petrol engine woodun't work on't Moon...

Nickc; you sound like you're trying to convince yourself, tbh... 😉

Without using the internet for reference and being that it's late, i've got issues un be known to anyone and am tired yet can't sleep therefore anything i write maybe taken down and use against me to put me in a home may i say this.

30 years or so ago man supposedly landed on the moon, since then what has been learnt and to what benefit, how much has the space programme progressed why isn't the moon subjected to further landing for testing and an understanding of it's make up and to test for it's stability as a mass....is it assumed it's stable and safe from sudden deterioration, for without we'd certainly be unable to survive here.

So why do they explore the further expanses of the universe, to the outer reaches searching for the unknown, i appreciate it's importance and the intrigue but have they tested the moons structure?

recently they have taken pics of the lack of solar flares coming from the suns surface and with concern they explore something they'll never be able to explore...

It all seems pointless and of little direct significance to the now.

What i'm saying is it's likely they have landed there, but not when they said they did, just some big willy waving mission and then off they go to find a bigger willy to wave.

[img] [/img]

proof that it happened

his argument is appearing annoyingly still valid.

It's probably on the T'net somewhere, must be true, eh?

Shit video, ernie. [url=

e's a better one.[/url]

Gotta LOL at the pathetic attempts to defend it, mind.

People are free to believe what they want, don't change it though.

Indeed. And I will chose to believe , based on the actual incontrovertible proof that the American Regime has repeatedly lied about all manner of things, that not [i]everything[/i] that comes out of America is in fact the Truth. WMDs, anyone?

Anyway, can somebody provide me with definitive proof that STW is real?

Next you're be telling me that Evolution is true 🙂

Shit video, ernie. Here's a better one.

You're having a laugh aincha ?

The flag in your video isn't 'fluttering in the breeze'.

It's moving cause the **** won't stop moving the ****ing flagpole.

What do you expect it to do ? Remain stiff like a piece of cardboard ? You daft div.

.... however, that alleged 'moon walk' 😕

The Moon's gravity is 1/6th of Earth's, allegedly.

So why does not in any way the flag gradually flop down? Eh? Eh?

Plus, the astronauts are only jumping a foot or two off the ground. In 1/6th gravity, they'd be able to jump a lot higher, and further, surely? Even with those heavy suits on.

Nah, sorry, FAKE.

does not in any way necessarily mean they jolly well have not been to the Moon, just that that footage ain't shot on the Moon...

Had millions fooled, though.

Anyway, my work here is done. Good Night all! XXX

So why does not in any way the flag gradually flop down? Eh? Eh?

Obviously because there's a ****ing rod in it.

If it had been allowed to 'flop down' it would have been pointless.

Flag "flutters" because it was being moved about by hand and as there is no air to resist it it flutters more than it would here on earth.
I know because I was there. 🙂

I don't care if it flutters all I want is a pic 🙂

RudeBoy: that video pretty much proves the opposite of what you believe. The flags is moved and the lower half shows a nice smooth pendulum-like motion while the rest of it stays pretty still, in other words, entirely consistent with there being no air resistance.

If you care to watch more a bit more of that footage you will later see the flag perfectly still. Are you suggesting that the troublesome "wind" that was ruining their fakery suddenly died down to a complete dead calm? That was lucky eh? 🙄

Also don't you think that the Russians (or some other American foe) might maybe have mentioned it if they had the enormously damaging evidence that the landing was fake?

Also don't you think that the Russians (or some other American foe) might maybe have mentioned it if they had the enormously damaging evidence that the landing was fake?

You're not paying attention GrahamS.

Everyone knows that the Yanks paid the Russians millions to keep their mouths shut.

Anyway, my work here is done. Good Night all! XXX

Of course. And the Chinese as well presumably.

Like all the best conspiracy theories it requires literally thousands of people to be in on it and remain entirely silent.

During one of my (many) discussions with him he argues that the Americans would have been really keen to have shown off with pics taken after the event from the Earth showing the landing site on the Moon for all to see - so why haven't they?

Conversely, where are the pics taken from Earth demonstrating that there is nothing there??

GrahamS - the Chinese didn't put their first man in space until about 5 years ago. So they wouldn't have been any wiser than anyone else. The Soviets on the other hand, would have know exactly what the Yanks were up to.

I assume Rudeboy's on a windup? But just in case, and it's already been said but it got ignored, you never see the flag move once except when the astronaut's moving it himself. (there's a reason conspiracy theorist videos always stop before he steps away from the flag) The reason it doesn't flop down is that the flag wasn't just loose cloth- it's stiffened along the top edge, so it acts more like a sheet of cardboard than cloth. It doesn't move at all like a flag in the wind. Of all the moon conspiracy b******t, this is the weakest.

As for being able to jump higher- yes, they could jump higher, they're just choosing not to for the same reason that we don't constantly jump around here.

GrahamS - the Chinese didn't put their first man in space until about 5 years ago. So they wouldn't have been any wiser than anyone else.

they still have telescopes, sattelites, scientists and spies.

Tyger: even if it were possible to take the pic, would it make any difference at all to what your
friend believes? A grainy grey image of the top of a lunar rover surrounded by some rocks and craters. Could be the moon. Could be Nevada. Could be Photoshop.

Subsequent lunar probe missions could take pics. But why would the conspiracy guys believe them?

The reason it doesn't flop down is that the flag wasn't just loose cloth- it's stiffened along the top edge

It had a stick in it to keep it straight. See here.

[img] [/img]

Obviously they could be sure it would be windy enough on the moon.

here are NASA photos of the landing sites from Earth telescopes:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11site.html

they also have images from SMART which was a European moon surveyor mission.

Somehow I doubt these will convince him tho. I suspect nothing will.

You may also enjoy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_moon_landing_hoax_accusations
and the various links therein.

I must say i always wondered why you couldn't see it through one of those satalite spy camera's that are supposed to be able to read a news paper from orbit or some such (have they got google moon yet?) plus all the tyre marks from all that hooning? It's not as if when they parked it up they'd say, look lads, it's a 2 seater convertable, and the most expensive care ever made, it doesn't even have an alarm, lets at least hide it behind that pile of rocks over there! NO, they'd of parked it next to the 'lander' (how that thing would ever get off again is beyond me!) so it should be easy to spot, why isn't it? Does seem a little odd. Also can anyone tell me how they got the car there, this thing doesn't even have a toe hitch - look!

[img] [/img]

have they got google moon yet?

[url= http://www.google.com/moon/ ]Yes[/url]

GrahamS - I got excited for a minute about the link to the NASA pics but if anything it compounds his theory as your can't see anything!!!

Anyone remember a book and film called Capricorn One written by Ken Follett (under the name Peter Hyams)?

Given other things that they have faked (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident ) it wouldn't be a massive surprise. Nobody here knows enough about it to really have an informed opinion - it's just to what extent you believe what you are told really.

I imagine it probably is genuine footage, but who knows.

I must say i always wondered why you couldn't see it through one of those satalite spy camera's that are supposed to be able to read a news paper from orbit or some such

Funnily enough they tend to place those spy satellites around Earth, not the moon! They are in [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Earth_orbit ]low earth orbit[/url], most are just a few hundred km above us. The moon, by contrast, is 384,000 km away.

Even Hubble doesn't come close to having a large enough telescope to resolve an image of the rover - never mind the frickin tyre marks! 🙄

I would have thought that the most dodgy part of the whole moon landing attempt would be the Saturn Five lift off - the largest machine ever made by man and what was basically a huge bomb. If the yanks wanted a contingency plan then how did they cover that one possibly going wrong ? Show faked footage "live" of a previous successfully launch ? What about all the people on Earth who witnessed its takeoff, all government stooges ?

Why don't we go back to the moon and mine all the elements for fuel?cos it will cost too much!

zaskar: My God you're right. He seems an entirely credible witness given the amazing effects in his own film. Those flashes of light could only possible be reflections off the wires.

Look at this secret photo smuggled out of NASA:
[img] [/img]

You can clearly see that same wire coming out the top of Aldrin's backpack. 🙄

Don't believe everything you read. It could be real it could be fake.

Nobody really knows. I hope it's not fake but it wouldn't be the first time the Governments have lied.

Weapons of mass distruction had loads of ppl calling for us to attack Iraq with bugger all there. 🙄

Nobody really knows

Well aside from all the evidence like the reflectors that have been place on the moon, oh and the analysis of the moon rocks by scientists around the work that show that they could only have come from somewhere other than the earth (to manufacture such rocks on the earth would have taken a project similar to the manhatten project!), yeah you're right, nobody [i]really[/i] knows.

By the way this

Weapons of mass distruction had loads of ppl calling for us to attack Iraq with bugger all there

Yes but none of that proves that [b]the original footage[/b] of the moon landing was genuine.

What if they knew that their programme was behind the Russians and couldn't lose face, so faked the landing a few years before they were actually able to go there? 😛

Don't believe everything you read.

I don't. I am generally as sceptical as the next man. But there is a enormous crapload of evidence that we went to the moon and only a minuscule amount of inconclusive nonsense that we didn't (none of which which stands up to peer review).

Nobody really knows.

400,000 people worked on the Apollo 11 project, not to mention the subsequent landings. Further tens of thousands of scientists across the world have had the opportunity to study the data gathered and examine the 371kg of rock recovered from the moon.

it wouldn't be the first time the Governments have lied.

True. But this would be a hoax on a scale that would be a million times more complex and would require several magnitudes more people to be complicit than say the Gulf of Tonkin or WMDs (which were pretty quickly shown to be false).

It [i]might[/i] just be possible to pull that off once. But six times??

What if they knew that their programme was behind the Russians and couldn't lose face, so faked the landing a few years before they were actually able to go there?

Right, so where did Apollo 11 really go then? And why did no one notice when the launched the "real mission"? 🙄

Or what if they did really go to the moon, but they didn't get any decent footage, so faked that? 🙂

Well given the political situation at the time I'm guessing that the Soviets would be watching and would have been the first to point out that the landing were fake, something that never happened, or are you going to argue that the Soviets were complicit in the conspiracy as well?

Some people are determined to religiously believe that the landing were faked and no amount of evidence to the contrary will persuade them.

Nah, tbh I am reasonably happy that the landing and footage was genuine, but some people are seemingly happy to always accept the official version of events about everything without question, and anyone who does question any of it must be a deluded conspiracy theorist or nutter (though there are lots of nutters out there).

The CIA etc have declassified lots of documents showing a history of large scale deceptions and conspiracies which would be dismissed as crazy nonsense if they weren't official records.

Theres this that proves we COULD easily land on the moon.
[img] [/img]

But as mentioned above, it would be far far too big a thing to hoax, and a little pointless. Plus someone would have VAST reserves of tax dollars somewhere 😀

As some of the Astronauts have said, if they faked it why did they bother going back [b]six[/b] times?

+1 for GrahamS, and RudeBoy is surely joking. Holding up the Gulf of Tonkin thing as an argument for it all being faked is really an argument for the opposite view, becauase it just shows that it will eventually (or pretty quickly) come out. It's just not possible for that many people to be involved in a hoax that you'd expect to last more than 5 mins.

Just like arguments against evolution, most arguments for a hoax moon landing just show the naysayers don't know what they're talking about.

As for being able to jump higher- yes, they could jump higher, they're just choosing not to for the same reason that we don't constantly jump around here.

and also because if they fall over and tear or damage their suits then they die!

some people are seemingly happy to always accept the official version of events about everything without question, and anyone who does question any of it must be a deluded conspiracy theorist or nutter (though there are lots of nutters out there)

There's questioning (which is fine) and there's talking rubbish (the "but the flag's moving!" stuff, which isn't). I don't think anyone has anything against questioning the official version but that's not to say that common sense and objective thinking need to go out the window.

The whole WMD/ Iraq thing prooves that the moon landings took place

If the US was this conspiracy machine people like to think it is they would have planted WMDs and "got away with it" - they didn't, no weapons were found and we all realised they were full of it.

why didn't they fake it - becuase there was no way they would have got away with it - just like they would have never got away with faking the moon landings

all conspiracy theories are clearly nonsense when you think about the planning and manpower which would have been required to pull them off - an army of "evil project managers". People talk - someone would have done so by now

Conspiracy theories provide a fun argument in the pub but some of you people really need to grow up

Google moon FTW!

😀

There we go.

Knew I'd forgotten something.

all conspiracy theories are clearly nonsense when you think about the planning and manpower which would have been required to pull them off

Yes, all conspiracy theories are nonsense - apart from the ones that have been proven to be true.