You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
“Pay me 6 months pay as well as owed holiday + give my next employer a neutral reference. I’ll sign a non-disclosure agreement and you’ll never see or hear from me again” would be my approach.
This^^^
Anyone saying anything other than take the money has never been in a situation where a Manager/Director wants rid of them.
Advise them to take the money and demand it paid ASAP in lieu of notice (as much tax free as possible) while they clear their desk.
And this^^^
Nothing tricky regarding this employment situation. Some people just don't get along well with each others. Take the money when you reach this point in the employment. Plenty of jobs out there and life is too short to dwell around if they don't like you. Negotiate for as much as you can and get out quick.
I'm probably reading more into this than there is, but I reckon the manager is worried that they have a subordinate that is doing (or having to do) way more work than others to produce the desired results. Maybe the delegation, leadership and management of the work being done isn't very good or fair?
So now they are using a wishy washy nebulous reason to move on this person who is doing a cracking job.
If I were the HR person from corporate I'd like to know why the manger wants rid of a worker who is producing the goods.
Its a pretty crappy situation but that is a pretty good deal. You could try and negotiate on the figure if you want but I wouldn't be fighting for the job. Take the money, have a bit of time off, start looking for a new job, or use it as an opportunity to do something else.
Not sure who mentioned it but this person definitely doesnt have any form of personality trait that would grate on people.
You absolutely, absolutely, utterly positive?
Had two guys that worked with me years ago. Both, in themselves, near perfect employees. No one else had anything bad to say about them. I used to socialize with both of them as well. Even at the same time on occasion, no issues there.
Put them on a team together at work, or even sit them within earshot of each other and there would be blood within 48 hours. Sit them at opposite ends of the same office, they'd even join the rest of the team for lunch.
I'm just amazed that there's still companies and employees who think that taking phone calls on holiday or working silly hours is somehow acceptable or a sign of something 'good'.
Not sure who mentioned it but this person definitely doesnt have any form of personality trait that would grate on people.
People who work 60 hours a week and pop into meetings when on holiday really irritate me.
Presenteeism doesn't mean they are a good worker. It just means they are trying to appear like a good worker without actually having to do good work.
Take the money and leave. There are still plenty of employers out there who think this kind of behaviour is a positive and will be delighted to have them.
Not sure who mentioned it but this person definitely doesnt have any form of personality trait that would grate on people.
You absolutely, absolutely, utterly positive?
Unless OP has managed the person in question, they really can't answer this definitively.
TBH i dial into meetings when i'm not at work.
But, several factors, a) it's a part of my contract, so i get paid for it, b) i usually don't do it, i get a colleague to cover, c) i have colleagues working on the west cost of the US so it's unavoidable unless i want to do all communication by email with a massive delay and d) if i don't entire projects get delayed.
I've actually been in one already this morning (day off today). And one last night (to the US).
60 hours a week can get bent though. If i get to 45 my boss tells me to get a grip and log off.
Just a quick update.
The person has lawyered up now and has put in a counter offer. The solicitor says there is a clear breach of company procedure in terms of no written summary of probation meeting/result. He will use this as leverage in the negotiation. He also says the agreement is badly worded and that the amounts offered are the bare minimum. Given the persons high status in the organisation he would have expected more just to get them to leave quietly. He said given the short period of employment it would be churlish to ask for too much so a sensible offer is being put forward.
Personally I’d value an assurance of a good reference
I see this a lot in these types of threads. A company giving the reference is liable for the contents of that reference and could be sued by another company if they were inaccurate.
As a result nearly all companies will only give bare facts references. E.g. "X was employed here between y and z and performed the role of sales manager."
No (well advised) company is going to say "X was a great member of staff and really productive, we're sorry to see them go". Particularly if they are not
Take the money.
Working 60hrs a week and having off the record meeting sounds like a sh1t company to work for.
Would you really want to win that battle and keep working there?
Mrchrist - they have no intention of working there anymore. As soon as an agreement can be reached i fully expect they will be walked off the premises with immediate effect.
I would love to know why this has happened as it makes no sense to me unless i have not been given the full facts. I guess i will never know.
Ok. Good to hear.
Yeah not sure they will ever know.
blader - your friend has 'lawyered up'; is that using the £250 provided by employer? If so, that won't buy much legal time or representation; if she's made a separate appointment, what's the legal agreement - no win, no fee? In the event of a 'win' that will take a chunk out of any settlement potentially leaving your friend with less than the current offer which is in line with her contract.
The employer is under no obligation to negotiate; your friend has 10 months service so has very limited rights.
From CAB:
If you think you were sacked because of an automatically unfair reason or discrimination, you can challenge your dismissal - it doesn't matter how long you've worked there for.
If you were sacked for a different reason and you’ve worked for your employer for less than 2 years, you don’t have the right to challenge it.
As for providing a reference https://www.gov.uk/work-reference
You refer to your friend having 'high status' in the organisation; it's clear the organisation have a very different view.
So in summary
1) OP's friend as been with employer slightly more than 6 months
2) they were nearly let go of at end of probation period but manager bottled it.
3) they've had a possibly dodgy conversation with HR/ Mgt and have been offered the contractual minimum (notice + holiday) to leave but don't have to work their notice.
So unless there are any protected characteristics at play here, the OP's friend has no employment rights and a poor bargaining position.
The compromise / settlement agreement will involve signing away any rights to bring a future claim, so agreeing to that might get a few extra quid as might signaling that you are willing to go quietly and professionally.
But frankly, under 2 years of service the company can simply say "sorry, its not working out, we're giving you notice" and ask you to work for those 3 months without giving any reasons so anything more than that is a bonus.
I see this a lot in these types of threads. A company giving the reference is liable for the contents of that reference and could be sued by another company if they were inaccurate.
As a result nearly all companies will only give bare facts references. E.g. “X was employed here between y and z and performed the role of sales manager.”
This is my understanding also. I think the only people allowed to give professional references at our place is HR, who might only know the employee in passing if at all. A manager could give a personal reference but they aren't speaking on behalf of the company.
That's not to say that it's impossible not to commit career suicide because people often know each other informally. Eg, I once had a random call from the IT Manager at a previous employer asking if I knew someone. I said yeah, he works in IT here, why? "Oh, he's applied for a job here, what's he like?" As it happened he was decent enough and I think he wound up getting the job in the end, but if I'd replied "yeah, he's a dick" it'd likely never have made it to interview stage and no-one would've known that conversation had taken place.
I would love to know why this has happened as it makes no sense to me unless i have not been given the full facts. I guess i will never know.
That’s probably the long and short of it.
You are only getting one side of the story, plus people interprete things in their own way.
For example both myself and my wife overheard the same conversation yesterday and both took it in different ways. Mine being a calm conclusion whilst she blew it up into something it wasn’t 🙄
revs - your wife will say you misunderstood.
Frankconway i think the solicitor is happy to do it for the £250, there was no mention of no win no fee. I get the impression he will do a counter offer and see how that goes and if not accepted will probably advise to take there offer.
Slackboy - i think they are aware of there lack of any rights but they are coming up to a year in service so not a newbie. They are also senior management and know that they have breached company procedures so there is leverage albeit not much.
I suspect there is a fine balance going on between getting them out of the door quietly and quick as possible whilst being legal.
Frankconway - goes with out saying 😂
blader - £250 doesn't buy much legal time; your friend may get 1 hour plus a letter.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/solicitors-guideline-hourly-rates
Did the 'informal' meeting specify the conduct which could lead to NMC referral? This is an absolutely massive threat to make to a nursing professional. You've mentioned allegations of being 'divisive', but in no way would this meet the threshold.
I just don't understand why, given that your friend has short tenure and could presumably be let go at any point without much hassle, that the manager feels the need to make the offer, and deliver the threat. Is there a potential whistleblowing issue here? Certainly seems incredibly shady. Is it being done with the blessing of the Chief Exec?
Obviously, as others have said, there is no future for your friend at this Trust, but the nuclear level of the threat seems completely out of kilter with the situation as described.
UPDATE: The counter offer has been accepted and will be signed by all parties tomorrow. As soon as its signed they will go on gardening leave and the whole sorry episode will be over.
I think i want to know why this happened more than they do. Seems all very odd to me but i have been out of that type of work environment for a long time so may be its only odd to me.
Maybe they got sacked/asked to leave because they didn't know the difference between been and being and there and their!? 🤷🏻♂️
Gardening leave?
How long for ?
Are you sure?
That's a rubbish outcome unless it's only for a few days