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Wife travelling tonight and having an exemplary journey so far. If train falls over completely, anyone have any experience of what the train company will do? Hotel or onward travel and if so, how?
Hope its not this line.
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24505856.fire-causing-major-disruptions-train-services-norwich/
No, WCML. So far actual train cancelled, now sat waiting for train crew on an alternative service ?
The one small ray of sunshine is that it’s going to be free…
Just look at their website for delay compensation information
You’ll get the ticket cost back if the service is cancelled but they won’t be paying for onward travel or putting you up in a hotel
Sadly Delay Repay is all too familiar.
I think there’s something in the T&Cs about ‘stranding’ which means if there’s no alternative service they’re obliged to either arrange onward travel or find accommodation, not sure what that looks like in the real world if anyone knows.
Certainly last time I was in London, the ECML was off and they were routing people via Manchester and Newcastle, then telling people ‘onward travel’ would be arranged… Good news is that she seems to be moving.
Last time it happened to me they just put a fleet of coaches to take people to a range of places. Luckily for me it was only Edinburgh to Arbroath, but some were going to Inverness. Also got a full refund.
Trains are so unreliable... I'm so glad I don't have to commute on them any more..
In my experience they might put a bus on, or enlist a local taxi firm, YMMV
You'll just have to see what happens and speak to the conductors /station staff.
I doubt you'd get put up in a hotel unless all other options are exhausted.
In my experience... If you need to get somewhere urgently it's better to forfeit the free transport, cut your losses and arrange your own transport rather than waiting around for hours, but it depends how urgent your journey is to you as to what choice you make.
I was on a train on the WCML on Monday that missed a connection from Edinburgh to Aberdeen. Those going to Aberdeen were put in taxis by Avanti.
The one time we were stranded (last train, hopelessly overcrowded as the previous train had been cancelled and there were hundreds of people coming back from a gig at First Direct Arena in Leeds), they put taxis on for everyone.
You’ll get the ticket cost back if the service is cancelled but they won’t be paying for onward travel or putting you up in a hotel
Actually, they do have a duty to do that. If there are no Staff available, or they are inundated with requests, you can ‘go it alone’, and keep the receipts, and they will pay them.
Am sat at Potters bar train station, on the LNER from King’s Cross to Leeds, and have been for the last hour as there’s an unknown fault with the overhead lines. Never before have I been so pleased to have got a cheap upgrade to 1st class, what with all that free beer, wine and spirit that isn’t going to drink itself…
Train manager has said the first train in the queue is going to go through the affected area, with all the loose electricity, slowly to check that it’s safe to proceed.
I thank the passengers of that train for their sacrifice.
You’ll get the ticket cost back if the service is cancelled but they won’t be paying for onward travel or putting you up in a hotel
My son and his girlfriend got held up on a train into London a few weeks back, stuck just outside Surbiton for over an hour. They'd saved their pennies to go after the end of the school exams/assessments and had paid best part of £100 each for tickets to a show in London, that by the time they got moving again meant they didn't get to see it.
Train tickets refunded, theatre tickets - **** off. And no-one takes travel insurance for something like that.
The companies do have a duty of care to get you to your final destination. It might be coaches are put on, or taxis. Hopefully sounds like it won't come to that. But if doing long distance and needed, quote the National Rail Conditions of Travel, Condition 28.2
28.2 Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary, provide overnight accommodation for you.
Canary train has made it through! The engineers managed to switch off the electric so the passengers weren’t killed to death.
what it does mean is that he few trains in front of ours that are electric only are going nowhere.
Update. My train is going pull alongside stranded leccy trains to pick up those stuck on them. Reckon about 600 folk. Gonna get cosy…
Once coming back from the North with a bike on the last train of the day, they cancelled it at Birmingham. They got me a taxi for the last 60 miles with my bike. The other passengers got a bus which couldn't take a bike.
I doubt you’d get put up in a hotel unless all other options are exhausted.
Also I doubt very much eg. Preston has enough hotel rooms for a trainload of passengers?
Ouch. At least they are getting people where they want to be.
It is indicative of just how run down the railway is. Not sure the Government can really afford to buy it out, but equally not sure it can afford not to. I too get delay repay all the time ( long distance trains ) and it's a mix of infrastructure, companies without staff / drivers, and then trespassers, fires, suicides / attempts. There aren't easy solutions.
enjoy the camaraderie, tomhoward. lol.
Carpathia train is go!
Not sure the Government can really afford to buy it out.
It’s not really privatised though. TOCs hold a franchise, where the DfT specifies everything from services to staff pay.
Seems rescue duty is no longer required, not sure what happened to the others. Not going to ask. Hope they made it.
@tomhoward I was on King’s Cross to Darlington yesterday. This is the problem isn’t it, 9 times out of 10 it runs brilliantly and is a genuinely not unpleasant experience. But. That 1 time out of 10, that you’re experiencing now, it’s properly rubbish.
Apparently we/the powers that be are now having meetings/drawing lots to see who is gonna rescue the stranded train. Was due to arrive in Leeds an hour ago. Still in Stevenage…
Still in Stevenage, no progress. Train manager has just said to people there’s some left over sandwiches from first class they are giving away. The resulting scenes were like an aid drop in a Warzone. Almost as many casualties.
Bon chance. May the odds be in your favour. Hope you make it home soon
In a fit of efficiency, the two trains (us and another) waiting with baited breath as to who was to be the saviour have now been told the other passengers have now been rescued and put on coaches, destination unknown. We still haven’t left Stevenage, t’other train left 10 mins ago.
Time for some rum.
Aaand we’re off!
Oh for **** sake. Apparently the coaches missed 80 folk. So back on rescue duty.
I expect my VC will be imminent.
Wish I had the thunderbirds theme as my ringtone…
Is this an argument for nationalised railways?
However, Germany has a national trail service and it's also ****ed.
At least yours is cheap…
Almost 1/2 way though getting the stragglers aboard now…
better late than never? Now underway again, stopping at hitchin to kick out the survivors, before starting again…
Now some halfwit has pulled the emergency door release at Hitchin. Not one of the people due to get off here. Literally couldn’t make this up.
Not sure the Government can really afford to buy it out.
It’s not really privatised though. TOCs hold a franchise, where the DfT specifies everything from services to staff pay.
If the problem was the overhead line, that's Network Rail's stuff, not the train operators. NR are essentially nationalised (and have been for about 20 years (ever since Railtrack collapsed after their negligence in managing infrastructure and the broken rail causing the fatal derailment at Hatfield).
Can’t help but feel 21:07 might be a bit ambitious
Theres no date beside that time 🙂
Luckily we’ve clawed some time back
And we’ve made it to Leeds, 6 and a half hours after we should have. Thanks for playing.
ScotRail is a farce at the moment, reduced service due to industrial action. Drivers refusing overtime. If they are dependent on overtime to run a normal service, would it not be more economical to employ more staff to avoid need to pay overtime rates?
On Borders line they’ve gone from trains every 30 mins to every hour, or in some cases, every two hours. And despite them running fewer trains, they don’t seem to be able to increase the size of the trains. I’m currently sat on a two carriage train heading up to Edinburgh on the busiest day of the festival. Luckily I got on first so sat down but I think they’ll run out of standing room by the time we get past Stow.
What’s happening with the Border line? Is there any plan to extend it to Carlisle?
We were on a Fife Circle service yesterday morning. Like sardines. As above I don’t know why they can’t just put on a longer train…
ScotRail is a farce at the moment, reduced service due to industrial action. Drivers refusing overtime. If they are dependent on overtime to run a normal service, would it not be more economical to employ more staff to avoid need to pay overtime rates?
They are, I've already posted the official line, they can only train so many at a time so it will take time to get enough people. Something happened a few years back that meant they lost the ability to train folk for a while hence the backlog.
What’s happening with the Border line? Is there any plan to extend it to Carlisle?
They've not ruled it out. Berwick would make as much sense as well but you would still need to clear a lot of land.
The thing with the Carlisle extension is that I thought most of the trackbed still exists?
ScotRail is a farce at the moment, reduced service due to industrial action.
Is that still going on? I wondered why there were so few services from Dundee showing up today...
From what I understand, adding extra carriages has to be planned well in advance. Most are leased, so operators only get the average amount needed per year. If customers were more predictable, that would help (ahem). Trains also go slower with more carriages, so frequency drops. It seems easier on electrified networks, though eg merseyrail.
Train from Edinburgh to London cancelled today.... Only one and luckily noticed early enough to change to a different service. Still knock-on from last couple of days chaos. No text or email notifications despite ticking the requisite boxes during booking. Par for the course...?
I always book through Trainline, and it tends to send me notifications etc, but it can only pass on the info NR give it.
The saga continues. LNER website is claiming it doesn’t appear that my train was sufficiently delayed to qualify for a refund. We shall see.
Trains also go slower with more carriages
There's a real "it depends" on that; depends if the additional carriages are powered or not. For example the 185s that I used to get between Huddersfield and Leeds were relatively overpowered (all three cars powered) due to the gradients on the Transpennine line, and there was a plan to put a fourth unpowered carriage on them which might have affected things. Equally, a 2-car 170 on the Fife Circle into Edinburgh on Friday was jammed solid with people and it was noticeably revving hard leaving stations.
Yea, it's not a major determining factor. More electrification would help as it's easier to cope with variable power demands using electricity than diesel engines. The leasing arrangement would have more bearing, I imagine. Why would a TOC pay for excess carriages 48 weeks of the year? Maybe the solution is a government-backed emergency 'pool' of rolling stock.
The saga continues. LNER website is claiming it doesn’t appear that my train was sufficiently delayed to qualify for a refund. We shall see
Real time Trains will have the details, those times are gathered from the official data:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/
Why would a TOC pay for excess carriages 48 weeks of the year? Maybe the solution is a government-backed emergency ‘pool’ of rolling stock.
The trains used, and their length are determined by the DfT, not the train Company. All train companies are nationalised in all but name now (except the open access one). They are told what services they can run, they are told what type of trains they can have. It’s all down to the DfT. Transpennine lost a lot of stock last December, to save money,so no wonder their trains are packed, other Operators are the same. There is no money to create a pool of under-used stock, there are hundreds of coaches available now, that are just stored in yards, as the DfT will not allow their use.
Real time Trains will have the details, those times are gathered from the official data:
for the first time, sense has been seen. Though interestingly they say I was only delayed by 209 minutes not the *checks notes* 400 I actually was. I assume this is because had I had telepathic knowledge of what each train was going to do and when, I could have changed trains and got myself home quicker. As has happened on my commute. Eg train cancelled but because there was another 29 mins later, I was only 29 mins late etc
****ers
Thanks for the updates; regrettably, I've decided that I will have to fly instead of taking the train to get down to London for work later this week. Normally for this journey, I'd be on the train from Dundee to Kings Cross but not this time, it's just a bit too dodgy again at the moment.
I assume this is because had I had telepathic knowledge of what each train was going to do and when, I could have changed trains and got myself home quicker
They don't like that either, I spotted my 15:53 was running late and would result in a missed connection, but there was a 15:44 going the same way. As my ticket was an advanced single they would rather I waited for the delayed service then miss my connecting service, than jump on a half empty earlier service.
Praise the lord for friendly conductors in the end who also saw sense and declined to charge me for a new ticket.
Drivers refusing overtime. If they are dependent on overtime to run a normal service, would it not be more economical to employ more staff to avoid need to pay overtime rates?
Railways have always (in living memory) only employed enough trained drivers to cover the services, assuming no issues AKA no spare capacity.
Never understood it, except it'll be no doubt hidden in some franchise agreement that for the train companies it makes (financial) sense.
Also, the drivers are on final salary pensions still (unsure of other staff).
Three times in a row now, the 2nd of our return trip from London has been cancelled a few hours before we head back.
As with @13thfloormonk, understanding conductors have made such a difference to us getting home or at least near home.
I'm surprised there is already plenty of spare rolling stock - can't see the rationale for leaving it idle... I think there are opportunities for some creative revenue generation, though. Any spare Railtrack property/land could be rented out, especially premium sites at more provincial stations.
My elderly parents travelled back from Edinburgh to Kings Cross to suburbs last week. Got home 5 hours late. Combination of LNER delay and getting out of London on Underground. Loads of cancellations meaning they had to take four different underground trains. Easy for most of us, not so when you are old, have poor balance and need to use escalators with a heavy suitcase.
Parents are coming back up at Christmas, I'm booking them flights.
I took the kids up to Edinburgh on Sunday. Usually there would be around 36 trains a day to and from Edinburgh to Tweedbank. On Sunday they scheduled 6 trains. We drove to Edinburgh instead.
People are now actively, routinely just discarding trains as a viable option. Trains are now too complicated, too expensive and too unreliable.
Scottish Government has just announced that it is ending its reduced peak time rail fare scheme
Transport Scotland said the project, which saw ticket prices subsidised by the Scottish government and standardised across the day, “did not achieve its aims” of persuading more people to swap car journeys for rail travel.
To persuade people to swap cars for trains, you need the trains to be a viable, reliable and affordable alternative. It is no good reducing fares in isolation, you need to ensure a reliable service, especially for commuters. That should be bloody obvious.
@franksinatra they also need to be regular so if you miss a connection, the next one is not too long to wait.
There also needs to be negative pressure to stop people using their cars.
Transport Scotland said the project, which saw ticket prices subsidised by the Scottish government and standardised across the day, “did not achieve its aims” of persuading more people to swap car journeys for rail travel.
It also takes a long long time for these things to take hold. Walking and cycling infrastructure takes years to see growth in use. Trains the same I would expect.
But agreed that reliability of service goes hand in hand with affordable and other encouragements....
Sooo... any word when normal service will be resumed? Worried the reduced timetables are here to stay!
I'd say this will not be resolved any time soon...
Sooo… any word when normal service will be resumed? Worried the reduced timetables are here to stay!
I too was wondering that! We have had some right faffs using Scotrail as a family the last few months, and it isn't getting better.....
One son had even bigger problems around Warrington and Manchester last week.
And I am booking train tickets 3moths out at present for work longer trips - and yet the difference between advanced (non refundable) and anytime (refundable) is widening I think. So Dunblane-London is usually £50-80 each way on advanced single or return, but anything which is refundable is £140-200 each way! With work I occasionally get changes of plan, so some flexibility is nice.
Anyone need a single from Dunblane to Reading on 21st October? Going free and worth £160...