[Closed] Trading City life for sea & mountains (Bath to S. Wales) Good move or mistake?

LOL at Bath being 'City life'!

I suppose it depends what you want - there's lots of countryside just outside the city. What attracted us to Bath from a larger city was that it had many of things you'd want in a larger city - decent culture, food etc - but it's also close to the countryside and not far from the coast/Devon/Cornwall.

If you're not going to miss the kultcha then you'd probably be fine, subject to as you say to finding a decent school.

Not sure how you'd cope without such a diverse selection of sourdough though... 😉

Sooo, we just checked out house prices, & man our money would go a LOT further in S. Wales than here.

Of course it won’t be as “nice” as Bath, but having lived here for 5 years now, “nice” is a bit over rated imo.

If we both use the word "nice" I think we can avoid being burnt at the stake by the STW socialist massiv. Also, unless you have a particular thing for Bath Stone, I would avoid assuming it won't be as "nice" as Bath...

Here's the rub S. Wales has a massively polarised housing market, a house where I live will cost as much as 3x what it would cost say 20 miles north of where a live, and about half what it would cost 2 miles west.

Same for schools, if you look at the state of education in South Wales 'generally' we have some of the worst levels of education in the UK, but we also have some of the best State and Public schools in the UK amongst a lot of poor ones.

As a bit of a rule of thumb, if you want to live somewhere "nice" (in the middle class sense of the word" you won't live very close to Cwmcarn or Afan, because they were built with redevelopment money in former industrial towns.

If you want to live somewhere "nice" that's quiet, then you won't find a lot of well paid work, easy access to amenities or major transport links. If you want to live somewhere "nice" that has those things, AND good state schools, it's going to be expensive, maybe not Bath money, but don't think you'll sell a 2 bed flat and buy a Mansion someone nice, maybe if that flat was in London. There's been a massive housing shortage, especially in Cardiff for decades, and even though they're finally building lots of new houses, demand is still very high, even during/post covid.

You've not mentioned work?

If you can work from home or get jobs there, then head for the country idyll. But long commutes, even 2-3 times a week, will take the shine off it.

We relocated from Crawley (yeah, I know) to a village near Ilkeston 20 years ago before settling down and having kids. Meant we could cope in the early years on one salary, still managing with one of us part time. Kids have had the big village community life we both had as kids, with Derby/Nottingham on the doorstep for culture, and the Peak District just over 30 minutes away for active stuff.

What about work?

We chose to live in the city with a short commute as it's easier to go places at the weekend instead of having to comute every day. Will your children be happy with the opportunities available when they are older?
Other wise why not?

as above, unless you specifically want mountains or isolation, there's definitely a middle ground to be had! One of the great things about the SE is that you can live in a very quiet or even rural area and yet just be minutes away from the beach, woodland, countryside and yet also amenities like a supermarket, interesting shops, good schools, theatre, restaurants, artisan roastery as well as transport links. I've got a mate who lives in the New Forest, his house is under 5 mins drive from the motorway junction yet it's like entering another world!

LOL at Bath being ‘City life’!

Ha, yeah that was a bit tongue in cheek, glad you appreciate it! We definitely moved to Bath with the idea of it being the best of both worlds & I do worry that I'm being spoilt/unrealistic thinking S. Wales will be better all around...

Thanks for the input so far everyone. Definitely some good food for thought.

If we both use the word “nice” I think we can avoid being burnt at the stake by the STW socialist massiv.

That was my thought too! But in all seriousness, thanks for the info re the polarized housing market & schools P-Jay - I'm very naive about that at the moment, but it's obviously something we'll need to be very careful about.

f you want to live somewhere “nice” that has those things, AND good state schools, it’s going to be expensive, maybe not Bath money, but don’t think you’ll sell a 2 bed flat and buy a Mansion someone nice

Yeah, I agree, I'm more thinking of trading our 3 bed family home for a bigger 4 bed (a dedicated home office would be a huge benefit) From what I can see, that's in a "nice" area with a good school, but I obviously need to check it out more carefully before looking more seriously. (I'm not expecting a mansion in exchange for a flat though, so at least I'm not totally naive!)

What about work?

We chose to live in the city with a short commute as it’s easier to go places at the weekend instead of having to comute every day.

Yeah, that's the rub. My partner can likely get a job within shooting distance wherever we end up (she's a v highly qualified physics teacher). And I can work from home the whole time, BUT I do like going to the office (I'm quite a social person) so I may well miss it & like you say, even commuting one or two days a week can be a massive drag (although in my head one day a week seems OK). I guess that this (along with the below) is the big cost... Plus the lack of variety of sourdough, of course 😉

Will your children be happy with the opportunities available when they are older?

That's a tricky one, I honestly don't know... I think the trade off would be a good one (they're both outdoorsy), but from what I understand of teenagers, I'm likely to be wrong whatever I decide!

We've thought the exact same thing. Moving from Bristol to Wales. We put out house on the market at the weekend after being in bristol for 17 years.

Speaking to the estate agent they said a lot of people in bristol are having the exact same idea!

Really Trickydisco? That's interesting & congrats on making the leap! (I was in Bristol for 10 years before moving to Bath)

Whereabouts are you guys looking at? (If you don't mind me asking?) We're thinking around Porthcawl area (we love Ignore), but as you can tell from the above, it's still v early days for us.

I'd definitely appreciate hearing your thoughts & experiences so far...

When I lived in Bristol 10 years ago a lot of people commuted over the bridge from Wales, with no toll I'd imagine that's even more now.

Were having similar thoughts albeit not moving to Wales and but instead from the London suburbs to the Bournemouth suburbs. Granted, nowhere near the same level of change but being walking distance to the beach and being able to access the New forest quickly is pretty tempting. We have family there to, however my wife is London born and bred so it's a tricky decision

We're looking to buy our first house next year once the stamp duty holiday ends and the market becomes slightly less crazy (and once we've saved up enough for the deposit!).

We're having similar thoughts, having lived in Bristol the last couple of years since leaving Cardiff Uni.

At the moment we're looking to buy in the very north of Bristol. It seems a happy middle ground between easy access to the outdoors (country lanes within 5 minutes on the road bike and 35 mins to Cwmcarn) and being close to work.

As we're in wales so often on the weekends we've thought about buying out there but the main problem is that the commute back to Bristol is simply awful. The traffic coming into Bristol and around newport on the way home is the worst I've seen outside of London and spending 2+ hours a day in a car isn't for us. My partner can't wfh as she's in a hospital role in a team that doesn't exist at any of the welsh hospitals so that's put a stopper on the idea really.

You also need to do your research on where you're buying, as above, most of the areas around afan and Cwmcarn aren't that "nice", but hidden gems do exist.

Looking to move on the edge of the brecon beacons nr crickhowell. Nearer to my partners parents. My work are looking to move to a hub style office where i can be in 1 day a week. I've always commuted in bristol by bike which has always been a boon for me either choosing a long or short route depending on how i feel.

We literally decided last week and got the house ready for photos in 2 days. Looks like a lot have also gone up in my area in Bristol

Only problem is wales don't have the stamp duty holiday like England which is a shame

At the moment we’re looking to buy in the very north of Bristol. It seems a happy middle ground between easy access to the outdoors (country lanes within 5 minutes on the road bike and 35 mins to Cwmcarn) and being close to work.

Not Bradley Stoke is it? Or 'Sadly Broke' as I remember it being called!

Moved from Tetbury to near Brechfa 10 years ago. It was like moving back in time. No traffic, neighbours turning up in tractors or on horse and cart, every service and shop available in the village.

Mountains and (empty) beaches on the doorstep and plenty of big mountainbiking (only big stuff which is a downside - popping out for a quick blast isn't really a thing).

We didn't really notice the lockdown. Nothing changed. So if you're looking for more lockdown isolation then there are plenty of places like that in Wales. But, Wales differs dramatically from place to place, so your mileage may vary. Works for us. Our next move will be in a hearse.

I have said this a few times on here.

11.5 years ago we moved from city centre Sheffield to the Highlands on Loch Tay. Utterly brilliant from an outdoors perspective, our kids have a love of wild places, biking, canoeing and hiking. They have benefited from an ace school and all of us loved it for 5 years.

BUT.

We moved south 40 minutes to Dunblane. Work was in short supply in the Highlands. A wet Wednesday in November it felt like a ghost town at the edge of the world. The wonderful community spirit and opportunities could bite you just as hard - and the weirdo element of the population were not as 'watered down' as they might be elsewhere. School was 26 miles each way, as was scouts/after school club/sports clubs etc. The summer tourist season brought 'challenges', and there are only so many times you can return home to a private car abandoned on your drive or lawn(!) before you go all Falling Down on some poor tourist.

Dunblane has provided us the halfway house - close to the mountains and lochs, yet walking distance from school/shops/friends. It has good work prospects (both of us are promoted in the same jobs we got 6.5 years ago), good social opportunities and more. Yes it costs a chuffing lot to buy a house here, relatively. Yes we can hear the A9 all the time.

I agree with you, 'nice' can be overrated and stifling with the white, middle-class, wealthy, arrogant, insulated bubble that 'nice' is often...

Think carefully about how rural you want to be.

We’re thinking around Porthcawl area (we love Ignore)

assuming you mean Ogmore? I grew up there, went to school in Bridgend. Porthcawl is horrible. No redeeming features. I wouldn't choose to live in the Bridgend area now. Ogmore has grown hugely (relatively) in the last 10-15 years, but has no amenities (tho they are now building the village hall that was mooted 40 years ago). It's expensive, cos you're never more than 10 mins walk from the beaches. Weirdly, kids from there now get bussed to school in Cowbridge (10 miles away, rather than 4).

Thanks for all the input. It's encouraging to hear we're not the only ones thinking about this kind of move.

It's very helpful to hear the more cautious warnings too though.

Porthcawl is horrible. No redeeming features. I wouldn’t choose to live in the Bridgend area now

Strong opinion - what's so awful about Porthcawl? (Genuinely interested to understand your opinion as obviously money wise, it looks like a good compromise for us, but I don't know it well at all). Are you able to recommend any alternative areas? We want to be close to the sea & obviously being in shooting distance of Cardiff is handy, but not essential. Would you recommend further West or

Think carefully about how rural you want to be.

I this sums up a lot of it. Both my partner & I grew up in farming communities (albeit at opposite ends of the country), so understand how the most beautiful spots tend to be the most isolated too. North Scotland is stunning, but I don't think either of us would feel able to raise a family there... We're after a happy medium, but I guess so is everyone else...

Bath is great on many levels, but this is bang on:

nice’ can be overrated and stifling with the white, middle-class, wealthy, arrogant, insulated bubble that ‘nice’ is often

Bristol was much more our kind of place culturally - in Bath we feel like "the only gays in the village!" But then, my concern with Wales is that might genuinely be the case! 😂

So I guess that's going to have to be a hurdle we overcome whenever we choose to live. From my experience, you really can't judge how accepting or otherwise people will be until they're faced with it/you. But people do surprise you - thankfully mostly for the good (despite never meeting "a gay" before, my elderly neighbours were incredibly supportive & welcoming when my girlfriend moved in, despite their ideological hesitations), but of course, that's not always the case.

So, all of that aside, like everyone else commenting on here who's in a similar situation, we need to figure out the best compromise for us. I do like a lot of small City culture, but the pull of the sea & mountains is getting stronger as the kids are getting older & able to enjoy the outdoors themselves more.

Finding a good school & a community where the kids will feel happy is key (if I didn't have to worry about that, it would be a compete no brainer for us, I thinj) as worse case scenario it doesn't work out & we move back... Sadly it's more complicated when small people are involved!)

I do like a lot of small City culture, but the pull of the sea & mountains is getting stronger as the kids are getting older & able to enjoy the outdoors themselves more.

ditto for us. We've got 2 kids. 2 and 5. We've loved the city life mainly before kids but also has been very handy being able to go to SS great britain, science museums, the theatre and m shed (or bus museum as my youngest calls it) . We can get to clifton on the train in 5 minutes, cycle into the city traffic free on the bristol to bath path or cycle out to saltford or bitton. But they definitely prefer the outdoors and now it seems i can work from home a lot more it makes sense to move to somewhere bigger + our area has sky rocketed in value in the past 5-6 years so want to take advantage of that

So I guess that’s going to have to be a hurdle we overcome whenever we choose to live.

You choose to commit to a community. The people we saw come and go quickly in the village were those who expected the village to suit them and bend to their expectations, rather than those who embraced the village, people and place for what it was, and changed their outlook on things. We had one new neighbour who lasted a year - apparently sheep eating over the garden fence was something to write to the council about! We on the other hand joined in with the local sheep judging championship... Committing to a community means that even when you fall out, you stick it out and learn to move on. Just as you might with family.

Sadly it’s more complicated when small people are involved!)

Kids are resilient, much more than we give them credit for I think. Ours have found transitions when we move a challenge, but all have grown stronger through it. They all have a sense of 'we are born in Yorkshire, but call ourselves Scottish'. They also as older teens now appreciate what they have in the immediate environs around us. I don't think they would have this perspective without the moves we have made.

Bristol was much more our kind of place culturally – in Bath we feel like “the only gays in the village!” But then, my concern with Wales is that might genuinely be the case!

I had a colleague who weekly would point out 'I am the only black in the village'. By village he meant about 15 miles of lochshore with 8 villages and well over 2000 inhabitants...and he was right.

Oh, and last advice from the Highlands - first week in the postie had a go at us for locking our doors. How else was he to leave parcels in the dry for us? It is a different world...and all the better for it.

Definitely look carefully at where to be. I like Porthcawl and often stay there when working away as it is convenient for the steelworks and Port Talbot can be grim while walks on the beach are great after work. But and it is a huge but go there in a cold February with rain lashing off the sea and it is really grim. In summer it gets busy which can be good but can be annoying hoards particularly with the huge holiday park just east of town. Also seaside towns are always run down in parts with associated social problems of bad pay and seasonal work, I live in one on the NE coast now so go with your eyes open. There is a reason that the middle class of S. Wales live in 'the Vale'. Villages like Llantwit Major are really nice IMO.
Also remember that you are a good hour further from anywhere in England and no nearer N. Wales when West of Cardiff. The M4 from Bridgend eastwards is hell to commute due to traffic and the tunnels at Newport. This could well get worse now the bridge is free.
As for S Wales climbing Gower is Ok if an aquired taste, Ogmore scary, Pembroke world class but still nearly 2 hours away and Wye Valley, Somerset and N. Devon further away than from Bath. It's all pros and cons.
Not trying to put you off but have a good look round and choose your place carefully. I'd unlikely move back to Wales now I've lived in the NE for >20 years but know others who say opposite. The hills there are great and everywhere has some great people and some less so.

In summer it gets busy which can be good but can be annoying hoards particularly with the huge holiday park just east of town. Also seaside towns are always run down in parts with associated social problems of bad pay and seasonal work,

This sums up Porthcawl really...the 2 huge caravan parks dominate...it's never really recovered from the end of the "miners fortnight" when all the miners would head down for their summer holidays. And the town centre is very run down.

Generally cheaper further west as you get away from Cardiff-commutable.

I'm on Gower...it's beautiful, but expensive (tho north Gower is cheaper than south)..it can get busy but also easy to avoid crowds. I don't climb but there is a lot here, tho no idea what it's like...other than limestone! Surfing/windsurfing are very very good. Swansea is pretty grim in places, tho trying to get more into the surfing scene....Mumbles is nice but stupidly expensive and busy in summer.

Oh and Gower is equidistant from Afan and Brechfa 😁

No clue about schools tho! But you're kids will have to learn Welsh up to age of 16 (I think)

I should add that I am not a city person but for day trips, shopping, museums, theatre even opera Cardiff is one of the best served medium sized cities as it benefits from being the Capital. To have a city within easy day trip distance for when you want a city fix it's great.

When I lived in Bristol 10 years ago a lot of people commuted over the bridge from Wales, with no toll I’d imagine that’s even more now.

I was driving for BCA when the end of the tolls was announced, (although that ended not long after the tolls ended), and house prices just the other side of the bridge, Newport, Chepstow, Sudbrook, etc were rising within a week, apparently.

but the main problem is that the commute back to Bristol is simply awful. The traffic coming into Bristol and around newport on the way home is the worst I’ve seen outside of London and spending 2+ hours a day in a car isn’t for us.

Something I experienced on a very regular basis, picking up a car from the BCA Hub next to Motorpoint then having to get back over the bridge and back to Chippenham when everyone else is doing the same - not a lot of fun once, twice a week, along with regular runs back from Cornwall and hitting the traffic south of Weston-Super-Mare and looking forward to a dreary slow run for the next 70 miles along the same stretches of the M5/M4.
Every time my one thought from Almondsbury to the other side of the M32 was “Christ, I’m so glad I don’t have to do this every night of the week!”

Bristol was much more our kind of place culturally – in Bath we feel like “the only gays in the village!”

Odd, I live 12 miles from Bath, 25 from Bristol, and I’ve known both cities most of my life, and I certainly wouldn’t have thought that of Bath, it’s a pretty cosmopolitan student city, has always had gay-friendly pubs, etc, and Bristol has changed dramatically over the last 20-30 years, it’s more like Bath now than it was, just a hell of a lot bigger! I can remember when the only music venues were the Colston Hall and the Hippodrome, now there are at least a dozen decent ones, Bath has fallen behind a bit in that regard; sadly, the ‘posh’ element rather took against all the noisy punk and rock bands playing the Pavilion, and it hasn’t been used for years. 🙁

@mountainmonkey2.0

Why don’t you pop over here for an afternoon? We can have coffee, and I’ll tell you about life in Cardiff.

I moved here from Manchester 15 years ago, and aside from Northumberland, wouldn’t want to live anywhere else in the UK. My brother lived in Bradford-on-Avon so I know Bath and environs moderately well, but I would still take Cardiff in a heartbeat.

I'm interested to know what was meant by "of course , it won't be as nice as Bath"?
I've lived in South Wales for 40+ years, and I'd say, if you offered me the chance to swap here for Bath, theres no way on Earth I'd head East. I would say this area is far nicer than a city like Bath.
What exactly are you looking for?

Are you only looking at affluent areas like the Gower and the Vale? For every Gower theres 10 Aberafans, for every Vale theres 10 Merthyrs. Dont forget, these places you are looking at will very much be in a bubble, surrounded by industrial towns, most dying. Next town over from the Gower has a huge drug and education problem.I worked with several grown adults who could not read or write a word. Heroin needles in the toilets, that sort of thing.
I suppose I'm trying to say that the "nice" areas are few and far between, and are surrounded by struggling , grim towns and villages. The outdoors aspects are vast and easily accesible, but the pay off will be mixing with, and forcing your children to mix with, people who might distrust and judge you purely on your English accent.

I live in a village just north of Cardiff - good road links, train station a 15 minute walk away, great primary school and MTB trails on the door step.The Beacons, Afan, Cwmcarn are really close and you could get down to Ogmore in 40 minutes if you want to do a bit of kayaking. House prices aren't cheap but I doubt they are Bath levels.

suppose I’m trying to say that the “nice” areas are few and far between, and are surrounded by struggling , grim towns and villages. The outdoors aspects are vast and easily accesible, but the pay off will be mixing with, and forcing your children to mix with, people who might distrust and judge you purely on your English accent.

I've lived in Swansea for 10 years. Sure it has its problems as does Llanelli which your alluding to, but overall what your saying is total rubbish.

Here’s the rub S. Wales has a massively polarised housing market, a house where I live will cost as much as 3x what it would cost say 20 miles north of where a live, and about half what it would cost 2 miles west.

Definitley this ^
I'm in Leicester, was working in Ebbw Vale 2 years ago.
The town is very depressed, but, it's lovely.
I could live there no problem. We looked at house prices, £70k for a large bay fronted terrace 5 mins walk from the centre.
Then a little further up the hill to a new estate, £250k for the same size house.
Not for the OP, as its a bit too far from the sea for daily swims, but the North of the Valleys are nice, even Merthyr has its good spots.

and forcing your children to mix with, people who might distrust and judge you purely on your English accent.

I can't agree with this, but maybe it's just where I'm from.

I went to school just outside of Cardiff, Cardiff was the fastest growing city in the UK for years and there was a huge influx of people from all over, loads of kids in my class had moved from England. It wasn't a 'thing'.

Yeah Porthcawl is one of the last seaside towns, it might be a good investment. The Second-home buyers have priced themselves out of lots of places further west, they might start snapping up Porthcawl, but I doubt it.

It's no mystery why the kids from Porthcawl take the bus to Cowbridge for school, it's regarded as one of the best secondary schools in Wales, glowing ESTYN reports and parents largely from the "nice middle class people" group - in fact Cowbridge is like that.

the pay off will be mixing with, and forcing your children to mix with, people who might distrust and judge you purely on your English accent

this is a very weird thing to say...it sounds like those people who claim they went into a pub in Wales and everyone started speaking Welsh. Compared to a lot round here I have an "English accent" - my Welsh accent is very subtle, despite growing up here, and spending the last 20+ years here on and off. But I've never experienced distrust or judgement. I'm sure kids get teased in school for having an English accent, in the same way that a Welsh kid in an English school would get teased, but kids tease kids for any reason whatsoever.

this is a very weird thing to say…it sounds like those people who claim they went into a pub in Wales and everyone started speaking Welsh. Compared to a lot round here I have an “English accent” – my Welsh accent is very subtle, despite growing up here, and spending the last 20+ years here on and off. But I’ve never experienced distrust or judgement. I’m sure kids get teased in school for having an English accent, in the same way that a Welsh kid in an English school would get teased, but kids tease kids for any reason whatsoever.

Also my experience, having moved to Newport from North Notts 20 years ago. Nobody has ever commented on my accent. At all.

FWIW, I live in a very pleasant, if characterless, mid-70s estate just north of the M4. I'm less than a mile from the motorway, and can cycle to Cwmcarn in 30 minutes without going along a road. Direct trains to Cardiff are less than 2 miles away (not that I go much, being a city-hater). I struggle to think of a better spot for me outside the national park, TBH. Although for the OP's purposes, this far east the beaches are in short supply - Barry is probably the nearest sand, Porthcawl is further but quicker to reach.

I lived in a pretty remote village in NW Scotland and occasionally came across your English we won’t speak to you. As a mate up there pointed out it’s a good thing as you get to find out who the dickheads are really quickly so save time and can just concentrate on your nicer new neighbours. Same rules in Wales.

I lived in a pretty remote village in NW Scotland and occasionally came across your English we won’t speak to you. As a mate up there pointed out it’s a good thing as you get to find out who the dickheads are really quickly so save time and can just concentrate on your nicer new neighbours. Same rules in Wales

this

Maybe your experiences are different to mine then, I'm only calling it how I see it. All these anecdotes I have written here have absolutely happened,and not just a one off either.
It's not terrible here, but it definitely isnt the land of milk and honey. I was raised here so I dont know any different, but people I know who move to the area are often taken aback that its not all Gower beaches, red kites in the sky and farm cottages.
Anyway, good luck with it all. Would I swap here for a big city? Absolutely not.

It’s no mystery why the kids from Porthcawl take the bus to Cowbridge for school, it’s regarded as one of the best secondary schools in Wales

kids from Porthcawl don't, they go to Porthcawl comp, or Kenfig. I mentioned kids from Ogmore going to Cowbridge, and it's nothing to do the quality of the school, it's because when they created the Bridgend Unitary Authority, and Vale of Glamorgan, they decided everything south and east of the Ogmore river was Vale of Glamorgan, putting Ogmore/St Brides/Southerndown/Wick in Vale of Glamorgan, and the catchement area of its schools. I don't know what it's like now, but Brynteg Comp used to be an excellent school, but whether it still is now the catchment area has changed, I don't know....

Chatting to one of my very Welsh neighbours about my other neighbours...

'They're English, but they're very nice.'

Made me laugh.

They're not English, they're Welsh, but don't speak Welsh. Which makes them English.

Advice, book lots of air bnb weekends away in different places and explore.

The Gower has the best beaches but there are cracking sandy beaches in the Vale also. Barry, Llantwit Major, Ogmore, Southerndown etc. Lots of paddle boarding in Barry Old Harbour at the mo.

Tonnes of great places to live in S. Wales but I think there are some pretty big trade-offs to make if you want beaches, mountains and a bit of city culture all easily accessible.

Ogmore way is good, but I'd go further NE if you prioritise mountain biking and East if you prioritise the city aspects.
Some nice villages in the Vale as well if you want the rural aspects with decent road access to the other 3 and don't mind the relative lack of train infra.

In the STW spirit of recommending what you know, it does sound like west Swansea / edge of Gower would fit the bill for you (if you're happy with the extra bit of M4). It does get quite busy at peak summer holiday times but nothing compared to Cornwall.

Have a look at Langland, Bishopston, Three Crosses.

But yes it definitely it a polarised place economically and socially - there are some people in pretty desperate situations in parts of Swansea and the surrounding towns.

OP - how did you get on?

We're thinking of swapping Bath for Ammanford as my partners sister moved there with her young family a few years back. They love it and we do when we visit!

Have a look at Langland, Bishopston, Three Crosses.

Three Crosses is currently cursed by Gower Fresh. Every Sunday around Xmas, Halloween, etc sees queues of cars with very bad tempered drivers trying to get access to the insufficiently sized car park, and jamming up all the surrounding roads in the process.

We tried to go to the Xmas grotto a few years ago and were told not to bother by the car park attendant, with the immortal words 'Don't go in, there's loads of very angry people in there!'. In the Xmas grotto! 😀

Last weekend was almost as bad, for the pumpkin picking or whatever - I chucked my wife and kids out of the car and went for a coffee in Penclawdd while they endured the crowds.

Anyway, carry on.... 😀