You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
There is method to my madness, but idiotic as it sounds i'm in the throws of gearing up to sell or trade my 04 plate vw t5 (self converted to camper) to replace with a fairly bottom end of the market VW bus (more than likely a mid 70s lhd Type 2 van from the prices i've seen so far).
the last old camper i had I sold in the late 80s, and even then i was a clueless owner as my dad did all the work on it.
can anyone give me any guidance when looking at a van what to look for, and if it needs welding work/panels what is considered realistically 'do-able' and what is 'walk away'. my thinking is that its better to worry about the solidity of the body as the engine can easily be replaced.
14 lbs of weed if you're lucky http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ad2_1187832817
As a current T5 owner who used to have a '72 Bay window (Devon Devonnette conversion with a 1.6 twinport) I think you're absolutely mental. I assume it's a project, not a vehicle you actually need to use either for getting about or indeed for camping that much. They are all very old now. Slow, crap brakes, wandery handling, gearshift like stirring porridge (& that's with a quick shift fitted, can end up punching the dash shifting into 2nd!) The camping interior space us much smaller than a T5 too, although the massive Viking conversion roof bed can help. A heady 49hp stock makes for blistering performance from 0-5mph. We hit 70 once, downhill on the A34 and I nearly crapped myself.
Absolutely great fun in a perverse way just like Landrovers are & I assume you're set on the idea so won't try to dissuade you.
Front panel is a mare to work on, especially lower 1/3. Same goes for sills. Big flat sides so hard to get bodywork to look good. Gutter corrosion usually needs a donor section letting in.
One of the worst bits to deal with us bottom of screen/a pillars. Very complex shape with several layers so a sod to weld. Basically unless you are great at welding it's cheaper in the long run to pay more for a good one than to buy a wreck to do up. Just like any classic car resto really.
Get the best shell you can. Running gear is all really easy to work on. Did most of mine including engine out on my driveway with minimal experience and tools. In fact one of the members of my old club got brought to Vanfest (2003 iirc) on an AA low loader, bought a recon block & we fitted it at the show for him to drive home.
We sold ours about 8 years ago with no MOT, smashed (by local scrotes) windscreen and a big hole in the front panel. Also had a dodgy gearbox and the pop top was split. We got 12k for it. I believe prices are at least the same if not higher. Good luck!
er, don't.....
The only reason to have a classic bus is to show it off on the 3 summer weekends a year where it's not raining. They are an utter utter liability in modern traffic, slower than a wet week, god only knows what would be left after a crash with anything built post 1985, and the even the "mint" ones have more holes than than a packet of polo's (unless they have been "restored" in which case they still have the holes and the rust, but someones bodged 5kg of body filler over the top, which will suddenly fall out one day when you hit a pot hole......
If you are dead set on one, buy the BEST you can afford and check EVERY mm of it before you part with any cash!
I ran an orange 76 T2 camper for five years, living in it for a year. It rusted in the usual places, everywhere below knee height and around windows. It didn't break valves or crack cylinder heads but many do as the owners don't let them rev up hills. It leaked exhaust fumes into the heat exchangers like most do. It didn't catch fire because I fitted braided fuel hoses so petrol couldn't spray on to the dizzy. It was slow, which was just as well given the amount of road needed in cross winds. It was a magnet for thieves. The lack of insulation made for lots of condensation. The underfloor water tank used to freeze so when I damaged it on a rough track I threw it away and used jerry cans. A Nikki twin choke and rolling road session made fuel consumption an acceptable 25mpg.
I terms of what you can do yourself, I'm tempted to say everything if you completely strip it, roll it onto its side and you are handy with a MIG. If you aren't prepared to do that find one that someone has already done or a mint one.
Our next door neighbour did he opposite, t2 to t5 and are much happier now. They can now go away in winter, are comfortable, can reach their destination in a reasonable time and without breaking down and save money on fuel. They said going away in the old bus was pretty awful.
Don't bother.
Oh and I sold it in 96 for £1200. It had been garaged for the first 15 years of its life, ran exceptionally well, had an clean MOT and everything worked. Why would you pay more twenty years later?
I've got both they are like chalk and cheese. 73 bay Westie continental and t5.
The westie is my preferred but I look at getting to my destination just as fun and arriving it's a mind set thing. Im also a classic air cooled fan so that helps a LOT.
If you want the looks and fuel consumption and speed go Subaru converted engine it won't be slow by any stretch of your imagination . Speed limit is 70 in the uk.
A Bay will have things that don't work and be loud on the road it will also have been lowered at some point as they all have this may make it wonder all over the road if it's not been done right ( read expensive ). Parts are plentiful for an old make VW classics are well supported in the parts industry .
Pros, good investment
Cons, it will brake and bite you in the ass at some point .
Last thing if it's shiny and freshly painted it will be hiding something unless they can show you photos of every part of the resto. The paint is so thin I mine you can see It's not hiding filler and chicken wire. Solid underneath and tip top running gear over looks every time .
Ah, the VW T2, nice frontal crumple zone in the event of a collision.
Your legs...
😕
Only thing that worries me is front smash you just have to drive according to the road conditions. Won't stop some plum hitting you head on overtaking. But then we ride silly bikes down tracks with roots on
Our Friends in Australia restore these for a living, Nick who owns the business Emigrated from Macclesfield about 10 years ago. He knows them inside out. See his website.
A couple of friends of mine have each bought T2s recently. One is still drivable after catching fire on their first proper trip and has since then had the brakes completely replaced, the engine partially rebuilt including modern hoses to stop things catching fire, a lot of welding and interior work.
The other one is currently a shell having all the rot cut out after he'd cured the roof leaks. It's got new brakes as well and is also waiting for the front bodywork to be rebuilt once it gets a bit warmer as that has rotted and also new window rubbers as they're all perished.
For both of them it's a project for fun (one of them has also just rebuilt a Sunbeam Tiger so is used to elderly rusty vehicles) and that the journey is as interesting as arriving.
'Throes'? Not having had either but having been in both I can see the heart-based appeal of the classic. Ignore that, the T5 is clearly a much better proposition on so many levels.
Oh yeah if you get one swap all the fuel hoses the day you get to new ethanol graded stuff or it will go up in flames Well it might..... but as the fuel tank is above the engine and gravity works so well at making liquid run down hill it's wise too. Old stuff needing upgrades is par the course.
T2s are fun! (In a landrover sort of way.) Had a '71 bay Devon conversion for about 10 years. Paid £100 for it and sold it for £3750 ten years, or so ago. In between I replaced almost everything below knee height (arches x 4, outriggers, all sills, top-hat beams, bits of chassis rail, front valance + cross member, windscreen corners, rear corners, door skins, etc... etc..).
It would probably be worth about £12k in similar nick now.
They don't have to wander if you do the front wheel bearings/steering box properly, and the gearshift is OK unless the flexible coupling on the gear linkage is worn.
They are slow, thirsty (20mpg average) and cold.
Mechanical parts are avaialble for peanuts.
The problem would be finding one that hasn't been "restored" / bodged at least twice by now, for which you would really need your wits about you (and ideally a very knowledgable friend).
An LHD import with the watercooled engine would be a much safer bet.
Intrigued by this - I looked at the cost of these camper things -
A modern kombi from Brazil Ebay - about £6k. Cost to you from an unofficial UK dealer - £18k! (min) It can't cost 12k to get one shipped and ready for the UK roads can it?
And isn't that the more sensible option if you want old style, but with some element of reliability?
Miss my Bay but was not suitable for where I live now 10 years of happy memories hoping for 20 yrs of memories in the new van 🙂
Earn your VW wings and try an old un
[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1236/528510120_5773583304_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1236/528510120_5773583304_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/NGKDs ]Sligachan Camp1 on Skye[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1245/528510136_d0b3670507_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1245/528510136_d0b3670507_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/NGKDJ ]Bedtime with a iview[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr
New Toy with the young un
[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1628/24585528606_8041bc80d5_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1628/24585528606_8041bc80d5_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Dsxg7f ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr
I miss mine too. XSG819K, '72 crossover so low front indicators and wrap around bumper with squared off rear vents and tombstone lights. Had some fantastic times in it, especially with the guys and gals from Rustybay and Portsmouth's Bugs'n'Buses club. It was as much about the scene as the bus though.
I'd never get rid of my T5 for one though unless it was as a sunny day plaything rather than a useful vehicle.
(Nerd alert: see you had the Beetle version of the Empi Quiet Pack exhaust fitted. It brings the tip under the bumper, the bus version had a shallower angle from the header so the tip was past the bumper & reduced the chance of soot on your chrome. Had the twin version on ours with j tubes once the heat exchangers packed on as Brazilian ones were rubbish.)
Just in case you haven't already got the message, change the flexible fuel hoses before you drive it.
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
That split above is someone I know on another forum, the photo was taken in France just after filling it up. It did have all new fuel lines and new tank fitted. I don't think he got to the bottom of how that happened the bus had just been restored to a very high spec. 😥
You considered a T3 Westfalia? I've had 3 of them and T4 Westfalia and I've used a T5 California and a Danbury T2. The T4 was by far the best all round vehicle but I really loved the T3, probably 30% more useable space than a T2 and still the classic driving experience.
I've sold all the vans now but I'd actually go back to a T3.
Brickyard and Club 80-90 are the forums to view, they can be a touch cliquey but then you're here so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Other things can happen, the dizzy is right next to the carburetor and oiled air filter if the common K&N replacement is fitted. When I bought I was warned so changed the fuel lines, added an external rally style battery cut off and carried a fire extinguisher. I'm just passing on the message.
Edukator.
Could not agree more I've got 3 extinguishers and counting on mine it's a camper with gas bottles after all .
I honestly think the brass fuel pipe popped off the intake/outlet of the fuel pump on that split bus.
You can get fuel cut off solenoids for about £70 will worth it.
Type 3 joker is good shout too and a bit more modern to drive.
Don't call them a "bus" to the insurance company for starters!
Just in case you haven't already got the message, change the flexible fuel hoses before you drive it.
I'm not sure this is really the problem - the big 'gotcha' was that the spigot that the flexible fuel pipe connects to on top of the carb can fall out. I don't know if the alloy bits of the carb were moulded around it, or if it was pressed in later, but sometimes, despite feeling secure, they will just pull out. Pretty scary, when the contents of the fuel tank are 18" away, and higher.
I'd love another old bus. I ran one as a daily for a good 4 years before downgrading to a t25 project. Regret selling it.
As stated all will be bodged/rusty so just get one with the least obvious bodging/rust.
Don't be too precious and get into the mechanics.
I've driven a 71 Westafelin camper a few times. Hideous hideous to drive, tiring and boy did it love breaking it down. Oh and then there is zero crash protection. Thirsty as hell too.
I know nothing about these vehicles but the fire pictures remind me of a one catching fire in the local supermarket car park about 15 years ago.
It wasn't badly damaged, more internal. The glass was covered in black soot on the inside and, after the fire brigade had finished what they were doing, the owner went back into the supermarket, bought some windolene, cleaned the soot off and set off home 😯
Having driven loads of old vws, I think your mad to go back to an old van.
No denying they are way "cooler" though, and sometimes the maddest decisions are the best.
We had one like that C reg splitty when I was a kid, horrible thing, can't think of one good reason to have one, people who think they are cool make me puke 😀
Utter piles of poo.
If you laid out all the welding beads I've do on these heaps it woulds stretch around the world.
They're not cool.
They shag the planet (they never run on less than 4% CO).
They burn oil.
They leak oil.
They are unsafe - goodbye legs if you have a hard frontal.
It's a toss up between these and 2CVs as to which I hate the most.
Bitter? Not me 😆
Hth
Marko
Cheers guys. I didn't know that about fuel lines.
I have owned them before in the 80s before the masses caught onto them as cool lifestyle accessories. I had a 68 bus and a 72 camper (that one was a Westphalia), and by 1990 when I sold it I couldn't wait to get shot and buy a more modern vehicle.
I'm under no illusion that both the vans I had were rusty, unreliable, rubbish to drive and totally unsafe, and that 30 years later they ain't going to be any better.
P.s. My first van had an occasional habit of stalling at traffic lights. The only way to start it was to get out, go in the engine, pull off the fuel pipe and blow. So yes, fire risk of lines duly now noted.
Go for it.
They are much preferable to the modern insipid T5 etc.
Many don't get the simple pleasures idea and can't go without all the creature comforts and as you have had experience you know what to expect.
If it doesn't work out it'll always sell on easy.
Take a chance you'll only regret it if you don't.
spectabilis
Go for it much preferable to the modern insipid T5 etc.
Call me boring, but i've never seen what is "cool" about spending 2/3rds of your holiday, broken down, in the rain, on the motorway hard shoulder waiting to be killed by a lorry driver who's just nodded off.
If you ever have cause to use the M5 during one of the VW meets in Devon/Cornwall, its hard shoulder is literally littered with the things in various states of mechanical malady.... 😉
Having driven one I'd check for other signs of mental issues, do you want to have a classic landie?
If not my Nigerian uncles have a huge inheritance that needs help...
My road bike is a nicer and safer place to be downhill at 70mph.
maxtorque - Member
spectabilis
Go for it much preferable to the modern insipid T5 etc.
Call me boring, but i've never seen what is "cool" about spending 2/3rds of your holiday, broken down, in the rain, on the motorway hard shoulder waiting to be killed by a lorry driver who's just nodded off.If you ever have cause to use the M5 during one of the VW meets in Devon/Cornwall, its hard shoulder is literally littered with the things in various states of mechanical malady....
I think you may be exaggerating a touch.
I go to loads of shows, sure they're are a few break downs now and again but then there are also old busses which will happily cruise over to Spa and back without issue.
You don't like them, don't get it that's fine you're more of a performance vehicle type of guy.... Each to their own. Enjoy getting there quicker.
In 4 years of daily 1969 bus driving it broke down once. Clutch cable snapped.
I did spent time maintaining it though. They like being used and you know if something is off as it feels/ sounds differently
thanks, as i say i do have an ulterior reason for considering one.
and if anyone wants a T5 with camper units/rr bed etc at a very good price (i'm thinking around £6500 as it is, would be worth a good 1-2k more with a little tidying) feel free to message me as i'll be looking for a quick sale.
4yrs of DAILY (that's every day right?) using a 47yr old vehicle its only broken down once?
This ranks up there alongside the 'I've got a 220-250,000miler VW Passat and its never cost owt in bills STWer post'.
Only on the internet can you claim stuff that can't be verified.
😆
spectabilisYou don't like them, don't get it that's fine you're more of a performance vehicle type of guy....
Who says i don't like them?? I've (re)built 3 of them, into various states including a flat 6 porsche re-engined one.
They are great fun, but not, imo, a suitable vehicle for everyday in modern traffic conditions or when carting ones precious family around.
If you really want to take the family off on a good outdoors holiday, get a T5, and keep the Splitties / Bays for showing off 😉
Not really answering the original question is it.
OP.
I'm sure you'll find better answers/info on The Samba, VZI Hayburner blogs etc.
Best of luck with your new van/bus, enjoy it.
My good friend is selling her bus. It's yellow, that's all I know.
She's spent money on it to get it in good nick, but not used it much in anger...
Fast sale appreciated 🙂
i decided not to go for an old one as I discovered they were discontinued in Brazil as they didnt pass their crash test regulations,
Enjoy !
As a campervan owner that's spent thousands upon thousands on a '73 bay and rarely had it on the road for more than a few months at at time I can safely say that if you are intending on using it as a regular camper for regular camping trips then the T5 is the way forward.
If you want to spend all of you money for the rest of eternity having it welded, replacing engines and doing half your trips on the back of an AA recovery truck then go for it.
They are classic vehicles that require love, attention and lots of swearing, and are not practical for regular extended trips.
That said I still love mine but if I was going to be camping regularly I'd buy a T5 for that...
i decided not to go for an old one as I discovered they were discontinued in Brazil as they didnt pass their crash test regulations,
Yes, your ankles are the crumple zone. Or your knees depending on how much it has been lowered...
I'm not going to say i didnt have the odd, lay underneath and hit it with a hammer to make it start moment or, drat a bolts dropped out where's a paperclip, or drat i've gone to change teh petrol filtr and there is petrol pissing everywhere, or drat the pressed in bit in teh carb had been backfired out - i know i'll rev the nuts off it to get to refuge and araldite a 5p in the hole, or holy **** my windscreens shattered doing 60 past portsmouth i cant see and i`m in the fast lane, or cripes those wheel bearings are making a funny noise and teh wheels wobbly - best get them changed, or grounding out so hard on a slightly proud manhole cover that the antiroll bar bend back under teh van meaning i had to reverse up a rampy kerb to bend the bugger back so i can actually drive, or swapping engines, gearboxes, dizzys etc. you know the usual stuff.
but it was only mortally wounded and didnt get home on a 'trip' once. usually crap happened pissing about in town or was self inflicted.
which is excellent.
like i said you need to keep on top of it. preventative measures. get the carb tuned timing right and a decent electronic ignition and you cure quite alot of general running problems. thrash teh bugger every now and then. keep an eye on yer clutch and gear cables. get new gear linkage bushes (best £30 i ever spent).
I`ve had more recovery breakdowns in my t4! but then i do lot less to it in the mean times. but when it goes wrong its way more hastle.
Old VWs are ace. I'd have one in a heartbeat. In fact, we nearly did 18 months ago after talking about it on and off for about 15 years. In the end, we decided we didn't want something that was purely 'cool' but something that was useable for a family of 4, safe on motorways and reliable etc so we got a ex-demo T5 from a conversion company and haven't really looked back. I will have an old bus one day though but it'll be when I've given up pissing around on bikes and have something else to use daily....
One bad side about T5 ownership is too many people bolting chrome bits and massive wheels onto them and making them look 'angry'.
Not gone down that route..........yet 🙂
Does it have to be an old one. My ex recently sold a "South American import" T2. Was effectively a brand new van (well a couple of years old by the time she sold it). There must be more of them out there.
Or painting everything black and adding massive wheels and making them look menacing, Davey. With a winky for our favourite set-building chippy. 😉
If you want to spend all of you money for the rest of eternity having it welded, replacing engines and doing half your trips on the back of an AA recovery truck then go for it.They are classic vehicles that require love, attention and [b][u]lots of swearing[/u][/b], and are not practical for regular extended trips.
That's where you went wrong, you see - they like being cosseted and coaxed, and will sulk if sworn at.
Edukator - TrollOr painting everything black and adding massive wheels and making them look menacing, Davey. With a winky for our favourite set-building chippy.
who are we referencing here, Edukator...?
(my summer wheels are only 16"...)
just revisiting this thread to see what was said about fires and things, because yep i sold the T5 and have coming next week, hopefully in that its going to be MOT willing, a ratty arizona import '71 tin top microbus de-lux. and i can't wait!