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having some work done in the house at the moment:
bit of joinery - couple of floating shelves, building a small built-in cupboard in an alcove
bit of plastering - re-shaping a hole in a wall and plastering
We were quoted £600 for the work, I was expecting £500 but said ok.
half way into the job the guy says it's going to be £700 because of unexpected materials costs.
he knew exactly how much work was involved and has had to do nothing extra; materials are wooden battens, mdf, plasterboard and plaster - nothing expensive so I don't get where the extra material cost has come from.
is this common? is he taking the piss? should I offer to meet him half way? or do I have to pay him what he says it cost?
Depends if you believe them otherwise i would react as they would if you paid £500 at the end of the job
It's hard to tell, did you get a written quote? Was the quote an estimation or a detailed report of work and materials?
£100 is a bit of a miss quote on his part. I would be asking for a detailed report on what the extra £100 is for and why it is only now he thinks it will cost so much more and why he didn't quote this in the first place.
Sounds like he messed up and is trying it on, I would stick to the agreed cost and see what happens. You hold the cards or the cash, unless you paid up front.
I would say that is still cheap
But in saying that if it was to cost more than before work is to be under taken
the costs should have been disgust with you first.
I would ask him to show you receipts for the materials used and explain why they cost significantly more than when he first quoted.
I'd be asking for invoices or something to prove they're not bullshitting you. They should agree any extra spend with you before buying the materials. That's what I'd do anyway if you were my client.
no written quote, just verbal - didn't seem worth it 🙄
If it was 5-10% more I wouldn't have quibbled, or if there had been complications but it's nearly 17% which is why I think he's taking the piss.
I'll ask him where the additional £100 material costs came from and ask him to prove it. thanks.
As a tradesman, who works for customers, its very rare for me to ask for extra money, unless a lot of extra materials need to be purchased.
So either he is short of cash, or cant use a calculator, or just cant be bothered to write down what he is doing for you, and the final cost.
Trade material costs are different to the cost you charge the customer, if the customer wishes to purchase their own material the labour cost goes up to equalise the loss in the trade verses the customer cost.
So its unlikely he will give out invoices.
Receipts please!!
it's all very round numbers
are trade material costs more?
he told my wife that a sheet of plasterboard was £25. I know I can go to Wickes/ Travis Perkins and get it for far less than that.
it's all very round numbers
good point.
it's all very round[b]ed up[/b] numbers
Fixed that for you*
*£100 should cover it.
brakes - Member
are trade material costs more?
he told my wife that a sheet of plasterboard was £25. I know I can go to Wickes/ Travis Perkins and get it for far less than that.
Just Checked [url= http://www.wickes.co.uk/plastering/plasterboard/icat/plastboard/ ]Wickes Plaster Board Costs[/url] He is clearly taking the Pina colada !
£25!!!! **** off!!! Is what I'd be saying to him in the phone right now!!!
You'd about get the ****er dabbed to the wall and skimmed for that price!!!
Trade material costs are different to the cost you charge the customer, if the customer wishes to purchase their own material the labour cost goes up to equalise the loss in the trade verses the customer cost.
Why is there any difference? , you are charging a labour rate yet you still want to charge extra on the parts
Why is there any difference? , you are charging a labour rate yet you still want to charge extra on the parts
Most trades will mark up materials bought for a job
Why is there any difference? , you are charging a labour rate yet you still want to charge extra on the parts
Fine, I'll measure up, go and order them, pick them up, go somewhere else to get them when the merchant has got the wrong thing in, etc but that's ok, you can have all that for free. 🙂
£25 for a sheet of board is silly, think they are around £4 + VAT so call it a fiver, allow him to make a bit on the board should still be less than a tenner.
There is always a profit margin on materials as a tradesperson so if you supply the materials then that margin will need to be made elsewhere. Also in my trade when people start supplying materials (bathrooms especially) it is usually a nightmare
Trade material costs are different to the cost you charge the customer, if the customer wishes to purchase their own material the labour cost goes up to equalise the loss in the trade verses the customer cost
How the **** does that work ?
I would add a cost if I had to collect or order materials
you can have all that for free.
With a service like that, you must be beating them off with a [s]fancy bit of laminate[/s] stick.
so what rights do I have to just give him his £600 and tell him to get bent?
Every right.
Combien pour cash?
pay even less then haggle him up
Probably would not bother suing you as it would be hard to prove etc
given the lie about plasterboard i would be leaning that way tbh
Why is there any difference? , you are charging a labour rate yet you still want to charge extra on the partsMost trades will mark up materials bought for a job
Because if you ask for say 12 quid an hour, the customer may well say no, but if you charge10 quid an hour and then add 20%onto materials you have got the money back.
But then you actually have to go get the materials, spend your own cash, but at least you know youve bought the right quality stuff, as opposed to cheap tat from wherever that some customer buy.
a few years ago went on a cctv course, and the instructor said to add on a 100,% markup on product, as the customer couldnt obtain the stuff and doesnt usually have any technical knowledge, to gauge the correct price.
Incase you havent noticed Wicks will deliver to site ,so how much do you add on ?.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/customer-services/delivery-information/pcat/deliverydetails/
I can understand not wanting the customer to supply materials incase of faulty wrong items
Yes wickes do deliver sometime to suit them, a customer ordered some doors for delivery on a wednesday, booked us to fit them, wickes confirmed delivery for the wednesday morning at 09.00, 11.00am wednesday morning us still sitting in van waiting for delivery of doors, eventually wickes store got intouch with driver, who had put doors on lorry first, and said he wouldnt be delivering them till he got all the other stuff off, he arrived 17.00 that night, we lost a days pay, but him and wickes still got paid.
If you take your bike or car in to be fixed, you will likely be charged retail for any parts + labour
The shop/garage will have bought them at trade and marked them up
That's how it works
turns out he got a parking ticket today...
maybe that's an additional 'material' cost
.
problem is it's my wife who has to deal with him as I'll be at work when it's time to pay up and she doesn't feel comfortable having this discussion.
If you take your bike or car in to be fixed, you will likely be charged retail for any parts + labour
The shop/garage will have bought them at trade and marked them upThat's how it works
yes I have been aware of this for masny years it is still wrong anybody can buy most car parts from a motor factors at trade and they deliver too so why charge retail , its just a way of jacking up the profit for no extra work
anybody can buy most car parts from a motor factors at trade
Really?
What is it with wives being unable to have discussions with workies?
Really?
yes you walk through the door and pay cash simple
What is it with wives being unable to have discussions with workies?
Usually the tradesman is considerably bigger than the lady of the house. The one time Mrs S queried a bill she was threatened on our doorstep.
All payments/negotiation are done by me now.
Yup mrs wson is the same and doesn't like dealing with folk! Latest one was npower boiler man who was a right whining ****, he even complained that there wasn't a permanent light fitting in the loft where the boiler is!!
Wrightyson - that is because if you have a boiler installed in a loft it is a requirement, not an option. He was doing his job.
im a joiner, £100 extra because materials have went up in cost seems excesive... not unless he quoted you for the job a year prior or something; and in that case he should have done a re-quote.... if there where unforeseen extras then he should have been talking you though the problems then explaining to you the extra cost implications, or if he quoted the materials list wrong then found him self short; then he should be explaining to you why, and asking for extra moneys, in the rare occasion that happens i offer the client to pay for the extra materials them selfs, and in that way they know im not trying to rip them off, the way i see it i cant be expected to make any money out of my error of measuring up, so i take the hit on the small mark up i would have had on the materials, you've got to be honest, word of mouth for being a good tradesman is worth its wait in gold... i'd be asking him for invoices simple as that, if he's the honest type he'll be up front, if he's argues the point, tell him to poke it...
it is still wrong anybody can buy most car parts from a motor factors at trade and they deliver too so why charge retail , its just a way of jacking up the profit for no extra work
It's not wrong at all, if all parts/materials were charged at cost, the labour rate would have to go up to cover it. When I worked for myself, part of the calculation was any mark up on the materials not some sort of bonus.
Back to the OP and his piss taking builder
Get your wife to defer the payment, tell him he needs to return and present you with the invoice for payment.
yes you walk through the door and pay cash simple
Oh right, it's just that when I worked [i]in the trade[/i], the [i]trade[/i] price meant something else. But hey, if you're happy. Did you get to wear overalls and call the counter boy "mate"? 😉
The thing over trade prices is I am paying you to do the service ...say fit the part to my car, plaster my wall whatever. You are charging me more for the part than you pay and that is not a "service" to me.
I may end up paying the same if you charge more for labour but then at least I am paying you for what you do rather than overpaying you for things you have purchased.
DS when i rang places for parts when in the trade no one ever asked for proof and it still works these days...just make sure you collect, pay cash and ask for a VAT receipt or you kind of give it away.
A few motor factors near me did not do trade tbh and were the same for me as for anyone else...they were only slightly dearer than trade.
Exhausts and tyres were funny though for example we could not get them as parts for cheaper than places could fit them hence why the likes of kwik fit exist...well we could if we bought thousands.
...say fit the part to my car, plaster my wall whatever. You are charging me more for the part than you pay and that is not a "service" to me.
It is in the sense that the customer rarely has to order it, pick it up, stock it, pay up front etc
Might I suggest then JY, that you source and pick up the part/materials yourself then.
What you're saying is that you should have the save level of discount, for your ocassional purchase, as a tradesman who will put thousans of pounds month in, month out? You don't want to pay for the delivery service that the tradesman is giving you either?
No wonder businesses are going to the wall when folks have such a selfish and limited view of how the economy works.
Much like the LBS v CRC argument, innit?
DS when i rang places for parts when in the trade no one ever asked for proof and it still works these days...just make sure you collect, pay cash and ask for a VAT receipt or you kind of give it away.
A few motor factors near me did not do trade tbh and were the same for me as for anyone else...they were only slightly dearer than trade.
Saturday morning trade days, loved them. But some of the punters were hard work and could negotiate themselves up to 50% off reatail prices. 😀
It costs a bleedin fortune to dispose of left-over plasterboard and other materials.
Legally, that is.
Mind you there are a couple of places on Cannock Chase where the local tradesmen seem to have a self-imposed zone system. Fridges by Stile Cop, Mattresses by Tackeroo, plasterboard & rubble by Kingsley Wood Road.
we charge a little bit extra for materials to cover the cost of phoning round to make sure they are in stock, and the time and the petrol to go and get them, the same as anybody would, in any business. its not often you come across a client who even understands what building materials are, let alone has the big enough transport to get them, or the time, which is why they've employed you in the first place. as for waiting for wickes/b&q to deliver, forget it! " oh sorry, the driver has brought them back, he couldn't find the address/there was no one in!" oh no worries, we'll just sit here all day waiting then.
anyway, don't pay it, until he can prove it. if he's made a mistake he should be upfront, communication is key and a good reputation is priceless. alternatively tell him to appeal his parking ticket
Might I suggest then JY, that you source and pick up the part/materials yourself then
WISH I HAD THOUGHT OF THAT
For me it just depends what it is.
Sometimes I lack the technical expertise to know what is best buy and defer to someone skill and knowledge and pay for it.
Other times I dont have to.
I accept DD can advise me on floors and help me and i am happy tp pay for this if needed
I think it reasonable to charge for your time etc whilst doing this but without the materials you cannot do the job so they are part of the price but overcharging me for them is not.
DS no it is obviously much fairer they charge a different rate based on how many time you visit and spend SOMEONE ELSES MONEY on stuff that you will then charge them more for.
I so hope supermarkets, petrol stations and all other purveyors of goods do the same, price based on total spend...i am sure customers would understand and the business would thrive
deadlydarcy - MemberMight I suggest then JY, that you source and pick up the part/materials yourself then.
And find a tradesman who is prepared to deal with a situation where there is the wrong/insufficient materials and all the associated waste of time. They would probably be wise to allow for that in their price and charge more.
DS no it is obviously much fairer they charge a different rate based on how many time you visit and spend SOMEONE ELSES MONEY on stuff that you will then charge them more for.I so hope supermarkets, petrol stations and all other purveyors of goods do the same, price based on total spend...i am sure customers would understand and the business would thrive
WTF?
I would have thought you'd have understood the buying power supermarket have. You could buy cheaper if you go to a wholesaler with your trade card and buy bog rolls in the thousand. But don't let reality stop you in your quest to demonstrate how smart you are. You more contrived your arguments, the more stupid you look... 🙁
Well I pay day rate to the builder I use [he is a mate].
i dont get it any cheaper as it is what he does with all people
I get receipts for all stuff and pay him for them separately- sometimes in advance if it is a few hundred quid but I trust him so no issue.
Customers like him as he seems honest and trustworthy and his business model works for him etc
I look fwd to you all defending supermarkets and petrol stations doing this rather than just you tradesfolk doing it.
NO DS I peaking about the shoppers in a supermarket/petrol station not their buying power. I m also taking your argument and applying it to other areas and suggesting that they charge based on how often you go and how much you spend - which is what you suggested as the reason why it was ok.
I realise you dont want to try and defend such a scenario applied to thee area so it is easier to just attack me than defend your view or explain why it would be good/fair/just. i think you can see my point and dont really want to defend your principle if applied to these situations hence the barbs
So you don't understand how different markets work then? I'm sure that Tesco, Asda or Lidl would be open to negotiate prices depending on how much you spend. I used to negotaite prices in the High Street.
I'm sure that if you have the purchasing power to negotiate with supermarkets, you'd have your own trade card, wouldn't you?
But of course you already knew that.
I realise you dont want to try and defend
Defended, it's called buying power.
I don't expect you to understand or accept this without having to resort to being all hurt when someone disagrees with you. All a bit sad. 🙁
I don't expect you to understand or accept this without having to resort to being all hurt when someone disagrees with you. All a bit sad
I am stupid, dont understand and I get upset? 🙄
Can we not just disagree/debate like adult and share our opinions without this playground shit?
He has also said that the he's used some expensive glue to stick the shelves up, the nozzles alone cost £9...
Spoke to family who've used him and they say he's got previous for this, they've just paid up.
Wife is going to pay the original amount plus a tip and tell him if he wants more he'll have to speak to me.
Can we not just disagree/debate like adult and share our opinions without this playground shit?
I'm not the one who thinks they have to challenge everything anyone says, neither do I expect explanations to the nth degree which to justify my own position. Where is the childishness?
plus a tip
eh? behaviour doesn't suggest tip to me!
I'm not the one who thinks they have to challenge everything anyone says, neither do I expect explanations to the nth degree which to justify my own position. Where is the childishness?
I hope the challenge [ question]was an intentional piece of irony.
eh? behaviour doesn't suggest tip to me!
the standard of work was good, and it's a kind of 'go away and don't bother us again' payment.
lets see if it works.
sounds like a stupid idea to me.
[i]thanks for a good job, here's the XXX you originally quoted us. now **** off and don't bother us again you bloody chancer[/i]
would probably be my response.
If I was feeling brave, I might say that, but it's my wife who's a pleasant young lady who has to deal with him - I don't want her to have to argue with an irate joiner with a nail gun.
had similar round here in the past.
pick up the phone and deal direct.
as you say, i wouldn't leave the mrs to sort it out. but likewise i wouldn't want her paying him off just to save 'trouble'...
well, in the end, he accepted the 'offer' and left after completing the job.
chancer.
apparently he turned up this morning and acted all surprised that the plastering he had done yesterday wasn't dry enough to paint today.
total chancer.