Totally avoidable t...
 

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[Closed] Totally avoidable tragedy

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Tragic accident that should never of happened.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22421047 ]Boat accident[/url]

Lesson identified - always use a kill cord.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 2:52 pm
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Sounds like a real shame and was only stopped from becoming worse by a local doing something brave and jumping on board the out of control boat.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 3:06 pm
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As far as I'm aware nothing has been said about the kill switch by the lifeguard yet (though the Mail seems to have apportioned blame already....)
While the boat clearly didn't stop no one has said the kill switch wasn't attached/ working so it remains to be seen what happened.
Either way it is a shame 🙁 but good that the lifeguard was on hand and knew what to do.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 3:53 pm
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It is very unlikely that the kill switch was attached and failed to stop the engine.
The lifeguard/coastguard will not be saying anything yet as it potentially a scene of crime. Also the MAIB will also be investigating.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 4:04 pm
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Lifeguard deserves a civilian medal for that.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 4:14 pm
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Unlikely but still a possibility, at this moment no one knows. I can't help feeling that a family is going through hell and people are jumping to conclusions about the competence of the father without any evidence for it. I know this is sacrilege to say on STW, but opinion is not everything 🙁


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 4:20 pm
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Sooner they licence speedboats and jetski's the better.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 5:39 pm
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Lifeguard deserves a civilian medal for that.

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately for him it wasn't a lifeguard that stopped the boat, it was a local business owner who isn't used to seeing what he did. A very brave bloke and I'm ashamed to admit that I don't think I could have done what he did.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 7:05 pm
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This happened a few years back in the Solent. Driver not having Kill Cord attached = game over.

I [u]always[/u] attach mine and [u]always[/u] have a spare should I go overboard with passengers on board.

I do wonder what the initial upset was that threw them all off. Sometimes the hydraulic steering can fail locked over.

So tragic and sad for all concerned particularly when it was avoidable.
Hats off to Mr Toogood.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 7:43 pm
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Good to see the knee jerk "license them" reaction, even the various marine associations disagree, its a pretty rare accident. Don't spoil it for the masses (been power boating since I was a sprog, worst accidents I've seen have been sail boats!).

I suspect he was just cornering too hard over rough stuff and the rear span out, seen it happen a couple of times. Generally doesn't cause a problem but in a loaded boat with people not expecting it it could end badly.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 11:21 pm
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Generally, investigate, conclude, inform, act. If something comes to light early then raise it. In a situation like this to speculate without being in possession of the facts is harsh on the victims. Wait until they know what happened before getting all preachy.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 11:46 pm
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Indeed. Though human error is almost always the most likely, not suggesting he was acting irresponsibly at all though, its easy to get caught out.


 
Posted : 06/05/2013 11:58 pm
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MS, I certainly haven't made any uniformed speculation or preaching in case you think I did. If a serviceable kill cord was worn correctly this wouldn't have happened. No debate! No preaching, just facts I'm afraid.

Nothing I say worsens that facts of this tragedy. Merely that, as I'm sure they are aware already, this was avoidable. A kill cord failure would occur if it was so rotten it separated but then a driver would have checked the kit (cord condition and function of the kill switch) before taking the boat away from the shore (wouldn't he??!); the spare would have been used in that case, making it difficult to get caught out.

If the cord was knackered and no spare was available, or the kill switch was inoperative the boat would have been unfit to take to the water, I'd have thought.

I'd be very happy to see Licencing for both power and sail. As you say sailing can be hazardous too. Having lost a friend through a negligent power boat driver and seen unlit RIBs on the Solent getting their lift to the pub at full whack I think there should be stricter control. As an operator of both, I see many more imbeciles in power boats and jet skis than I do in sailboats.

I wish a speedy recovery to the injured.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 6:25 am
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Just to add, I'm fully aware you can't legislate for freak waves, objects in the water etc etc. just like you can't against trees falling into roads etc. You can, however, ensure people have attended adequate training courses to use the kit. I guess it comes down to admin costs and a powerful (and understandable) notion that the seas are the last area of freedom.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 6:47 am
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Good to see the knee jerk "license them" reaction,

not really a knee-jerk reaction. I've thought it for many years living in the south west and seeing a steadily increasing number of complete ****s putting themselves and others in danger.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 7:44 am
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To even get a sail boat to move in the correct direction needs a bit of skill and understanding of the principles.

A powerboat is much easier to operate when everything is going well.

If a serviceable kill cord was worn correctly this wouldn't have happened.

Totally agree.

If the person "driving" the boat was using a kill cord then the boat engine would have stopped when they were thrown from the boat. I cannot think of any reasons why it wouldn't have.

When the investigation is complete this message should be put out by the media to prevent it happening again.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 7:53 am
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Sadly, winston, this has happened before and will happen again.

"There are no new accidents. Merely old ones waiting to happen again."


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 7:57 am
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While I understand the viewpoint calling for us to wait for the marine report and inquest, that may not be for months. The safety aspect needs pointing out now, while it's in the MSM, not in eighteen months' time, as a paragraph in an inquest reported on page 8.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:03 am
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Tragic as the story is, I'm a bit baffled by the amount of media coverage it's getting.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:16 am
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vorlich - check the job of the man who died. That plus children being involved, public heroism, and video of the incident.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:23 am
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I suspect he was just cornering too hard over rough stuff and the rear span out

My feeling also and with a 300 on the back that would also make it more likely [especially if it didnt have contra-rotating props]. The only other thisng that I could think of was that the engine mounting had broken - but it certainly didnt look like that on the video.
Terrible tragedy.
edit: just watched the video.... boat looked to be operating fine once the guy had jumped aboard.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:27 am
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vorlich - Member
Tragic as the story is, I'm a bit baffled by the amount of media coverage it's getting.

He was from the media world... ...I suspect that gets you extra column inches. There is video of it unfolding that certainly gets you air time. Its a bank holiday weekend so relatively little domestic news? And actually it is relatively unusual which probably helps too. Another car crash or cyclist getting hit by a truck or soldier getting blown up by an IED isn't really "news" anymore because its just like last weeks one.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:27 am
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vorlich - how about -

Senior management in a massive media organisation.

A child killed with (by?) their father on holiday.

Some of the other family members maimed.

Video of the boat.

A hero who is avoiding publicity.

As a story it has it all.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:28 am
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[especially if it didnt have contra-rotating props].
single engined so explain how that makes any difference?


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:28 am
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I didn't realise it was a 300hp outboard. That is a serious piece of kit.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:34 am
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If the person "driving" the boat was using a kill cord then the boat engine would have stopped when they were thrown from the boat. I cannot think of any reasons why it wouldn't have.

not to tarnish the memory of the deceased, the only reason I can think of is the kill cord wasn't attached to the driver. I've done it myself, the gravity of the consequences becomes less and less and like we do as drivers, riders and pedestrians we get comfortable in our surroundings. Detaching it from the person makes moving around the craft easier and i bet there's a lot of sailors who've done it.

The RIB in question was a serious bit of kit and by all accounts it looked fairly decent spec. My money is very sadly on human error.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:37 am
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Just out of curiosity, and in general, would a big outboard default to hard over or to straight ahead hands off?


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:53 am
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As a non-boaty type, do these things not have seat belts or is that just not practical?


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:54 am
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I've seen the details, I saw the story on the news last night. Guess I'm not actually baffled, I know exactly why it's getting the coverage it is.

Clearly a newsworthy story, but it's not headline news. The way 24 hour news ghoulishly latch on to such tragedies to pad out their airtime doesn't sit right with me.

Why should anyone care if the dad has a high flying job?

Guess I'd make a shitty editor.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:55 am
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AFAIK all outboards will start to circle eventually. However, this would have had quite a serious hydraulic powered steering system which would have held it in a position relative to the wheel position.

Generally speaking the wheel would be pulled over by the operator getting thrown out of the boat. Assuming they were holding the wheel at the time.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:57 am
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single engined so explain how that makes any difference?

You can have twin props on a engine - there are two drives shafts, one within the other, which rotate in opposite directions.
Our last boat had them (Mercury Bravo 3 outdrive).
The benefit of this is that there is much less torque steer as the rotation on one prop counteracts the rotation on the other - resulting in the boat not requiring trim tabs in order to run level [side to side]. With a single prop and enough power many boats will tend to lean slightly to the right as a single prop rotates clockwise.
Another benefit is that two props will grip the water better with less chance of cavitation.
This rib has a properly big engine - there is a reasonable chance that if a driver where to do a sharpish right hand turn on an incoming wave (basically for fun) while giving it plenty of throttle the prop could lose grip on the water and the back of the boat would quickly skip sideways in the same way you can get the back end of a car out.
if this happened chances are the boat would have tilted sharply to the right for a second or two. In a more 'traditional' powerboat this may not be such a big deal as you sit 'in' them (they have higher sides than the seat level), but you tend to sit more 'on' a rib as the seats are more level with the height of the tubes and it's def easier to be thrown out.
There is also the possibility that the passengers were sitting on the side tubes rather than the seats.

Just out of curiosity, and in general, would a big outboard default to hard over or to straight ahead hands off?

As WD said, the power steering will hold it fairly straight but the action of hitting waves, plus a bit of torque steer, would fairly soon put it off course


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:59 am
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Sooner they licence speedboats and jetski's the better.

been power boating since I was a sprog, worst accidents I've seen have been sail boats!

I think the difference is sailing looks difficult, Joe Blogs on holliday is far more likely to pick up a 100hp jet ski and think he can ride it than he is any kind of sailing boat.

Not sure if licencing is relavent to this case, I've not seen anything reported as to whether he'd done all the training available (and then ignored it), or just got the biggest boat he could and had the inevitable accident.

Personaly i'd be in favour of licencing on the basisn that most responsible people probably already ahve their RYA certificates, but then that wouldn't solve the issue of idiots being idiots, that would require policeing.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 9:27 am
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If its correct that it was 300hp outboard that's a massive motor for the size of the boat. Lots of potential to get into trouble if you are not a very experienced and well trained power boat handler with that kind of power on tap for a boat that didn;t look much bigger than 17' long. Is that really correct?


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 9:34 am
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300hp is a bit ridiculous.

"When I was a lad" outboards were 40 or 50hp! A 70hp was considered big!

With that sort of power, depending on the hull, 50kts would probably be achievable.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 9:44 am
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Yeah when I was a lad we had a similar sized boat with a 90hp motor on the back, perfectly nice for water skiing behind so 300hp seems crazy.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 10:06 am
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Def 300 engine, single prop but the hull looks pretty big - reports say 26' but I'm not convinced.
Very nice boat I've got to say but it does smack of 'big rib' syndrome (rich bloke buys the biggest he can in willy waving contest).
Seating for 6 but whether they were all seated is another matter.

The fact that all the occupants were flipped out is unusual. Kill cord was attached to the key (to the lower right of the wheel) but not the driver I'd bet. And BTW we are guessing that the father was driving - this may not be the case!

[img] [/img]

How safe does this look? This is an image from a sightseeing business website - very bad practice.
[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPvtB3vca9EO9hyLn6o2Gr5WzCHdX0jWFEEQMBLcdG4_1Em29- [/img]


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 10:15 am
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Looks very similar to this [url= http://www.ribsforsale.com/detail-OSPerry-cobra+86m+rib+with+mercury+verado+300hp+outboard.htm ]Cobra 8.6m[/url]

So about 28'. Big boat but 300hp would still seem overkill - very nice though!


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 10:23 am
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Hope he was well insured, bet he wasnt though


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 10:31 am
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The more I think about it the more I think they could have actually been throw out of the left hand side as it's pretty difficult for the driver to be thrown out of a simple, sharp turn.
Driver turns sharply right in chop, back end spins out and boat goes sideways until hitting the water [sideways] and stopping very quickly. Boat goes from heeling sharply to the right to level/heeling to the left very quickly - occupants catapulted out by the pendulum effect.

Watch how this boat goes from one heel to the other extremely quickly as the hull digs into the water.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 10:37 am
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Tide and/or water depth could also have been an issue - Padstow has some shallow sand bars and narrow channels - possible that engine bottomed out and caused the boat to pitch suddenly.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 10:53 am
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worst accidents I've seen have been sail boats!

Yeah the worst accident I've seen was a sailboat - a Laser a friend of mine was sailing got hit by a jetski driven by somebody who didn't know what they were doing (oh and no insurance either which made things interesting). Laser hit just in front of the mast and a complete write off. A couple of feet further back and it wouldn't have only been the boat...


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 10:54 am
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Yeah when I was a lad we had a similar sized boat with a 90hp motor on the back, perfectly nice for water skiing behind so 300hp seems crazy.

A half decent heavy water skier would stop a 90hp boat whilst crossing the wake, to the point of being completely useless. Proper ski specific boats are actually 250hp or more, for torque more than top speed tho, our boat has a 315hp V8 mercruiser, but top speed is only 45mph.. IMO 300hp isn't that big a deal, unless the rib wasn't built for that power and/or weight bolted on the back.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 10:56 am
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I'd have to ask Greg why did you cross the wake and when you hit trouble at least cut the throttle.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 10:58 am
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Who needs an engine ?


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 11:03 am
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with that kind of power on tap for a boat that didn;t look much bigger than 17' long. Is that really correct?

Our boat is 16ft and has a 315hp V8 Mercruiser, will I die???


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 11:12 am
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Our boat is 16ft and has a 315hp V8 Mercruiser, will I die???

If you don't use a kill cord then you could. The main point of this thread!


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 11:31 am
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Not much of a sailist myself, but my brother is.

He has a yacht moored at Gosport, and occasionally I go down and have a bimble about under his tutorlage. What never fails to amaze me, even as a non sailist, is the number of self evident numpties that get out on the water.

Simple examples:

1) Gin Place plowing out of harbour at night, with kids without life jackets playing on the fore deck. Apart from the fact the guy was doing perhaps 3 times the harbour speed limit, the obvious potential for one or more of the kids to not only go overboard, but over the side and under the vessel was incredible. Not by any manner of means unusual.

2) Large rib (similar to that above) tied up to a jetty at the rear only. Mr Weekend Warrior puts the bloody thing into gear and revs the bugger up whilst still tied up. Net result, boat pivots on the mooring and literaly launches itself onto the jetty, scattering people in all directions. Very fortunate that no one was actually killed.

3) My personal favourite though, being some tit that decided that "sail before steam" applies when a Brittany Ferry is negotiating the exit to the harbour with approx 10 metres clearance either side on a ship the size of a pretty large block of flats and thus decides that he can sail straight under its bow. We were there when the harbour police brought him in, and he was still protesting that it was his ancient right, and the ship should have given way. The Twunt!

3 incidents, one weekend.

So overall I have to say I am in agreement that some sort of controls need to be in place, not so much to stop people doing themselves in, an outcome that mostly I might find myself comfortable with, but more to protect the innocent from their actions. i.e. this weekend tragedy, should it turn out to be Dad being a dick, would have an outcome whereby 3 out of 4 injured parties weren't him, and thats not to count the others also put at risk by the incident.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 12:55 pm
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Who needs a boat?

[url=

Speed Record[/url]


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 1:26 pm
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I have a very good friend who is a RNLI volunteer at Gravesend lifeboat station.
He reckons at least 70% of all their call outs are to recover complete fools who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a boat, and have brought the situation on themselves.

To be fair though, I work with the Royal Navy and they make some pretty huge cock-ups aswell.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 2:07 pm
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agent007 - Member

Who needs a boat?

You do need a boat for the current world record. 😀


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 2:25 pm
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I was involved in [url= http://rnli.org/safetyandeducation/stayingsafe/seasafety/Pages/Advice-on-board.aspx ]this[/url] for a few years, free safety advice from the rnli. Unfortunately very few were interested in it, and those who did ask for a safety check were those who were already very safety conscious. Those who were lacking in safety knowledge didn't feel the need to ask for free advice.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 3:25 pm
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The boat looks a fair bit bigger than I initially thought, so 300hp not completely outlandish after all, but still a lot. I wasn't saying it caused the accident I was just saying that it was clearly a high performance boat with that much power and would need to be driven properly as a result.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 3:48 pm
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Well it looks horribly like a vicious case of Darwinism to me if the Kill cord is a) the original and b) fully serviceable.

This would possibly explain the attitude of a driver gunning it with kayakers nearby (if press reports are to be believed).

My mind is now going down the toxicology route...


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 5:59 pm
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Always wear a killcord, even with our 2hp outboard. Pleasantly surprised by the lack of idiocy in Salcombe, although it's difficult to see if others have killcords on or not. Must admit that having a harbour speed limit of 6/8 knots is really nice, much quieter and better for sailing. Some pretty rediculous boats down there mind (2x350hp outboard Boston Whalers for example). A terrible tragedy that could probably have been avoided.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 7:59 pm
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It is awful. Let us not jump to too many conclusions before inquiry is complete.
As RYA PB instructor, it is amazing how relaxed people are about wearing cords.
Last year three sailing instructors went for a play after work, all were thrown from boat mucking around and one was killed, even though kill cord was worn. :/


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:18 pm
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Matt,

Did the boat carry on even after they were thrown off or was the fatality due to injuries sustained in coming off the boat?


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:31 pm
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The accident last year? As I understand (conversation between my boss and boss of that centre) was a fall at high speed and the fatal injury was immediate, not boat coming round again. I could not tell you the mechanism of; or the injury it caused.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 8:43 pm
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Wowsers! I think too often the risks aren't fully appreciated with boating in general.

I know experienced sailors who shun safety gear as if its beneath them. I'd rather look a bit of a geek (not difficult to manage) than too cool for school and regret it.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 9:00 pm
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I think too often the risks aren't fully appreciated with boating in general.

Do not lump a sailing boat, low speed engine boats etc in with high speed powerboats etc. A bit like comparing a pootle in the park with a Downhill track...
RIBs can be powerful things, and like a car, need some respect. In which case, they are safe.


 
Posted : 07/05/2013 9:04 pm
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Matt,

As a user of both, I'm very aware of the differences and the parallels.
I also know that 'pootling' in a power boat at high or low speed(as evidenced by this tragedy) can go wrong as quickly as it can in a sailing yacht and vice versa. It's just that it doesn't take long to be half-competent in a power boat which is where the danger lies and respect isn't built as quickly as competence. Look at jet skis; in five minutes from cold you're a pro (and bored!) but you won't have any seamanship in that time.

The power of a fully canvassed boat in the right conditions can be phenomenal. I did a Biscay crossing that resembled a 2 day rally stage! Great fun but certainly not a pootle!

Sailing tends to build respect at a similar pace to competence as it takes far longer to reach the same level. Mistakes tend to be very costly (£) or unforgiving.

However my point was: what they have in common are large numbers of owners who have poor seamanship and risk-awareness, possibly because no legislation exists forcing people to take adequate training.


 
Posted : 08/05/2013 6:47 am
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News is confirming that kill cord wasn't in use.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 5:23 am
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It was fitted but not attached to driver.
It's happened before and it'll happen again.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 5:47 am
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Horrible for the surviving family, gonna be lots of "why didn't I make him use it", although as an executive for sky (?) he was prob a fairly alpha personality.

Very sad.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 9:09 am
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I thought they said it wasn't clear who was driving at the time?


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 9:11 am
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I don't know what to say really, totally preventable tragedy that occurred because whomever was driving the boat thought 'it won't happen to me'.

I used to spend my summer holidays at uni driving powerboats in sunny places for a living (in between teaching the guests how to sail and windsurf), and the use of the kill cord was drummed into us, for good reason.

One one memorable occasion while I was driving the engine controls jammed at the console, and the only thing I could do was point it at the beach and then pull the kill cord to stop the engine. Such a vital piece of equipment.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 9:14 am
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True, I didn't realise that, I (prob like most people) just assumes it was the father.

Apologies, take some of it back.

Still horrible for the survivors, although I guess the whole story hasn't, and prob won't, come out


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 9:18 am
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As a non boatie some interesting and informative posts here. News reporting the investigation concludes driver didn't use kill cord. Driver not named. Mother had leg amputated.

And as a non boatie I am gobsmacked there is no formal licence or training requirement before operating a 300hp vehicle with the lives of several other people in your hands. I need to take an extra test to be allowed to drive a minibus at work.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 10:29 am
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And as a non boatie I am gobsmacked there is no formal licence or training requirement before operating a 300hp vehicle with the lives of several other people in your hands. I need to take an extra test to be allowed to drive a minibus at work.

Many years ago, I gained an RYA Powerboat Level 2 qualification, which I required for the work I was doing. This was a 2 day course I think, and I also needed a first aid certificate to make it valid. Of course, this was because I was driving powerboats for a holiday company. I don't know if such a thing is necessary for private use.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 10:47 am
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Driver not named.

Which smacks of legal intimidation. The fact that the father was driving was widely reported initially. So much for a free press.

Edit: Hmm, just thought I'd recheck those earliest reports, none of them seem to name Nick as driving. I imagined it all? (shrugs)

Edit II: Regardless, he was boat owner, and therefore [s]responsible[/s] (actually, obviously not) culpable.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 10:50 am
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Just to chip in with my tuppence worth...

winston_dog - Member
AFAIK all outboards will start to circle eventually. However, this would have had quite a serious hydraulic powered steering system which would have held it in a position relative to the wheel position.

Generally speaking the wheel would be pulled over by the operator getting thrown out of the boat. Assuming they were holding the wheel at the time.

Driving RIBs is part of my job, see profile.

[b]ANY[/b] boat - big or small, powerful or not, inboard or outboard, will circle without someone at the wheel (autopilot excepted). Even if the helm is midships there'll be some turning moment. But, the smaller the boat and the bigger the engine makes for a tighter circle, and less time for anybody in the water to get clear, indeed, even if they are conscious enough to to so.

Also, checking the operation and attachment of the kill cord is one of the many things you just do.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 11:01 am
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It's only an interim report, a pdf on the MIAB site. It mostly stresses the safety cord issue. One assumes there will be more later, whether from them or at an inquest.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 11:51 am
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And as a non boatie I am gobsmacked there is no formal licence or training requirement before operating a 300hp vehicle with the lives of several other people in your hands. I need to take an extra test to be allowed to drive a minibus at work.

You could drive a minibus without any licence at all if you were on private land, and since the sea isnt owned by anyone i dont know how youd stop people.

People do stupid stuff all the time, and sometimes they have no idea of the risks.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 11:59 am
 poly
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TuckerUK - Member
Driver not named.
Which smacks of legal intimidation. The fact that the father was driving was widely reported initially. So much for a free press.

No it is standard MAIB practice. Firstly this is not in the final report so there is no need to get into the detail. Generally speaking a Safety Bulletin like this is only used where there is a glaring immediate point to make which they think needs publicised before the full investigation is complete and reported.

Even when the MAIB are finished they don't usually name people as their role is NOT to assign blame simply to identify lessons for the future.

There was widespread assumption / speculation at the time that the Father was driving at the time - but I've not seen that suggested by any official source so its probably just stereotyping.

Edit II: Regardless, he was boat owner, and therefore responsible (actually, obviously not) culpable.
really? unlike cars boats don't necessarily have one named person responsible for them, but just like cars if you are a passenger in your own car - the driver is primarily responsible.

{quote] I guess the whole story hasn't, and prob won't, come out it depends what you mean by "the whole story" - there will be a detailed MAIB report (probably 6-9 months from now) which will include pretty much anything a nosey by-stander might want to know about the circumstances.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 12:32 pm
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Stato, fair point about private land, but possibly airspace would be a better comparison. Not trolling life long boaters BTW.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 4:39 pm
 poly
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CTM - if the boat was being invented today it might be a regulated space but the reality is, like the bicycle, and the horse, boats have been around for a long time and relatively few people die doing it! How would you regulate, control, license such an environment and who would pay for it? There would only be logic in doing so if you believed it would have a substantial benefit to safety (or the exchequer!). Its not clear that tougher rules and licensing would achieve that (stats are no better in places with such systems). In many accidents the person would have met the likely standard for a license.

I guess you could apply similar logic to canoes, skis (esp. cross country / back country skis), rock climbing, open water swimming or even walking. Until these things start killing innocent bystanders (rather than participants) there is probably no real argument for state intervention.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 6:07 pm
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Not a boater myself, through lack of available cash, and living 70 miles from the nearest sea, but I would [i]love[/i] to have a boat like the RIB involved in the accident, or a Boston Whaler, somewhere down on the south coast, like Devon.
I spend time down there, and around Weston and Brean, and one thing that I'm continually aware of is the way the water can change its character, sometimes in the space of an hour or less, just by the wind swinging round.
As well as using the safety leash, I'd insist on seatbelts as well, even without the boat swinging sideways as it appears to be the case here, just hitting sudden chop like a tidal race will chuck a biggish boat around, let a,one a smaller, lighter boat, and I couldn't bear to be responsible for someone bouncing out of their seat and being lost over the side.
It's amazing how far out people will go, too:

[IMG] [/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]

These two were bashing around at the end of Brean Down, which stretches a mile out from Weston-Super-Mare, and when the tide's coming in, like when I took these, there's a hell of a chop and tidal race just in front of the SeaDoo in the top photo. I'm really not sure I'd want to take something that size out there, but who's going to stop them?
The RNLI had their hands full hauling grockles off the rocks near the beach that afternoon... 🙄


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 6:20 pm
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How about through insurance?

you should have to prove insurance prior to launch at a public or commercial slipway. If you've done the training, then your premium is low.

If you haven't then the companies can charge heavily or refuse. Come the accident and you haven't done the training, then you haven't applied due care and you get hammered in court. This covers launch at a private slipway.

Not nice, but in a previous life I got totally fed up with battling with mindless morons on their jet skis. They were less than nice people and didn't care who they put at risk. Elsewhere I've seen RIBs coming back from a late night Pi$$ up across the Solent totally unlit at high speed (I'd put money that there will be a few tonight outbound from Yarmouth and Cowes). These idiots need the book thrown at them before another tragedy occurs.

In this case the driver was (IMO) negligent by not attaching the kill cord prior to taking out others and with other water users present with tragic consequences.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 6:20 pm
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To me, the wording seemed like it was very carefully composed so as not to name the driver. One assumes, it'll all come out when the coroner does his thing as the surviving adult (wife) will be questioned, no? Anyway, a tragic accident. I couldn't care less how rich or poor they were, a mother is left without a leg, husband and children and a child without a father and siblings. Goodness knows what their future holds.


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 6:37 pm
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Even sadder, that boat looks brand new (prop is mint along with rest of vessel); I suspect (bearing in mind the weather recently) that it was the first weekend of its use, maybe it's maiden voyage. What a waste 🙁


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 6:42 pm
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As well as using the safety leash, I'd insist on seatbelts as well,

and what happens when the boat flips, or gets holed and sinks fast?

you should have to prove insurance prior to launch at a public or commercial slipway.

good idea - drive the idiots away from public places so there's even less chance of the getting help


 
Posted : 17/05/2013 8:46 pm
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