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http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17979560
Seems backbench Tories are getting upset about not being Tory enough. What are peoples views would they do better being more or less Tory? What would Tories want them to do more of/ differently?
Any amount of Tory is too much Tory, the evil bastards.
Well i agree, but many dont. I like to try and understand where they come from. Grammar school expansionand leaving the EU were mentioned in that article fir example.
Just in case TJ's watching - I'm not a member of any political party...
The whole internet surveillance / filtering thing is something they ripped holes in all the time they were in opposition, and guaranteed to wind up any "small state" / classic liberal type tories.
And the case for HST doesn't really stack up that well. I suspect the real rationale for it is to get some £s moving to nudge the economy a bit. To me it would be better to fix and upgrade a load of roads because it could be done far quicker and there would be benefits spread across the whole UK.
The answer to the country's economic issues is not about political position. We don't need more/less Toryness. We need people in charge who understand how the economy works. If you over cut govt spending on capital projects, sack loads of middle class people, and the majority of new jobs are relatively low paid and/or part time you're going to see a contraction. Moreover, talking about 'an export led recovery' and 'rebalancing the economy' sectorally and geographically isn't enough - you need to instigate policies to help that to happen.
Camborne have been all over the media this weekend blaming presentation issues for their troubles. We're not stupid. The problem isn;t that we don't understand what you're trying to do, we get it. We just think what you doing isn't working, and is therefore the wrong approach.
If the Tories had spent less time forcing academies, privatisation of the NHS and tuition fees through Parliament at the same time as 'austerity' they might have noticed what was going on beyond Westminster.
This is a longstanding problem for the Tories. their core vote and their representatives tend to be further to the right than the party positions itself - because they need to command the centre ground to win elections. A Manifesto to suit the core of the tory party would mean they didn't get elected.
Like many political parties they are really a coalition.
Tron.. It is maybe my ignorance but i have no idea what you are talking about. What is HST and what was that about the internet?
Capt jon whilst i agree with you I'm more intrested in what the Tory party think the lib dems are stopping them doing.
Ok, the classic solution is an export led recovery - There's one problem with this - for years we've been told that X percentage of our trade is with the Eurozone, that the Eurozone is vitally important to Britain's economy and everything has been pushed down the line of targeting our manufacturing to Eurozone markets at the expense of other areas... In case nobody had noticed, the Eurozone is on its Arse, and all our eggs are in one basket.
Domestic politics wise, Cameron's problem is twofold
i) The parade of the bleeding stumps - The austerity has hardly actually happened, but the problem is with the people who have been told to cut, who will cut always cut the front line, most public and unacceptable things first as a way to protect their empire - tell your local council to cut spending by 5%, and they'll shut the libraries, but if you walk past their offices late at night, the lights are all on and the building is still floodlit. Cut funding for the Police, and they'll close the child protection office, but the Chief constable will still have a full time driver and a new BMW every year.
ii) He, and the rest of the party, are still running scared of actually proclaiming conservative values, scared of every pressure group and shit scared of telling people uncomfortable truths - terrified that nobody will vote for a party that says "sorry, but for us to solve the housing problem, you're going to have to accept that your house is going to fall in value, because we're no longer going to artificially prop up the buy to let market with taxpayers housing benefit money"
I do think that Boris would unashamedly stand in public and condemn the people who are responsible for the former whilst sacking them, and be somewhat honest with the people who don't want to hear the latter.
One final thing I'd say - Nadine Dorries is a loon who's about to lose her seat and as long as Cameron isn't listening to her, then he's at least halfway to being on the right track.
Does it make any difference ? They're all just nuancing the centre-ground. Much as it will be hard to spot the change should Wallace and Balls-up get themselves voted in.
The resounding vote winner last week was "none of the above".
Love the comments at the end of that article. These particular tories just don't get it. It's bad enough that we have the toff boy flavour of conservatism in at the moment, but do they really think that if the Government policies lurch further to the right, that the people of this country will vote them in next time?
This is what happens when you close down the asylums and introduce care in the community.
If the Tories had spent less time forcing academies, privatisation of the NHS and tuition fees through Parliament at the same time as 'austerity' they might have noticed what was going on beyond Westminster.
This government has shown very little capability in trying to sort the wider economy. It has re-iterated its intention of using the current economic problems as a cover for destroying as much of the state as possible.
that the people of this country will vote them in next time
Don't be silly - Cameoron's got the next election sown up already - why do you think there's been no Referendum on Europe? because thats the promise he'll deliver in the next election manifesto, job jobbed.
Which lies happily in time for Boris to take over mid second term, to take the third win.
8)
Don't be silly - Cameoron's got the next election sown up already - why do you think there's been no Referendum on Europe? because thats the promise he'll deliver in the next election manifesto, job jobbed.Which lies happily in time for Boris to take over mid second term, to take the third win.
Like I said, care in the community.
Yeah apparently the Lib Dems have had too much say in the coalition. Erm........
TandemJeremy - Member
This is a longstanding problem for the [s]Tories[/s] Labour Party. their core vote and their representatives tend to be further to the [s]right[/s] left than the party positions itself - because they need to command the centre ground to win elections. A Manifesto to suit the core of the [s]tory[/s] Labour party would mean they didn't get elected.Like many political parties they are really a coalition.
See - it works both ways 🙂
In any case, I'd not consider either Labour or Tory to be "centre ground", not since Tony Blair.
Does it make any difference ? They're all just nuancing the centre-ground. Much as it will be hard to spot the change should Wallace and Balls-up get themselves voted in.
The resounding vote winner last week was "none of the above".
Exactly. If anyone thinking things will be much different if Labour gets back in will be disappointed.
As George Galloway said Labour, Torys and Lib Dems are all "three cheeks of the same arse"
Indeed druidh.
So anyway what would the Tories and their supporters like to see happening?
HST - the high speed train line to Birmingham. I think I meant to type HS2... Should go up to Sheffield, Leeds etc. or can it entirely.
The internet thing - there were proposals for internet surveillance, what websites everyone visits, emails, tweets / fb messages etc. to be stored and accessed relatively easily compared with say, a phone tap. And some back bench tory is agitating for content filtering en masse to block porn, which to me has a couple of side effects - a) you suddenly have a big list of people who like looking at tits, which will eventually find it's way into the public domain, and b) you have a filtering system in place which can be extended as and when you fancy. And it'll eventually be circumvented anyway by the kids who want to look at porn - I read in the paper that the Pirate Bay block has been worked round already. If you don't want your kids looking at that sort of stuff, don't give them a mobile phone better than a 3310, a laptop or an ipod touch, and put your PC in the front room...
[i]So anyway what would the Tories and their supporters like to see happening? [/i]
I think a lot of traditional Tory supporters rather like some of UKIP's policies, and are willing to protest-vote until Dave and the posh boys listen. Of course this could let Labour back in. Memories are so short. Still it won't be G Brown again. Did I see Tony's trying to come back?
And I think there are a lot of disillusioned police, fire brigade, nhs, and forces voters, and their families and friends, out their wondering which way to vote next. It won't be Tory.
Maybe Tony Blair will replace Cameron as head of the Conservative party - Electoral Gold 😀
But people will still only vote for the 3 main parties, believing they alone know how to run a government. It would take a lot for the voters to realise that. In Greece the people have started voting for the smaller parties, and it's going to create some extreme coalitions. I doubt the UK public will ever reach that point though. They still have stuff to lose.
mr destructo - you want to look to scotland - since varous more proprtianal systems of elections have been introduced you see significant rise of small parties nand single issue politics.
Edinburgh council- 20 labour, 18 SNP. 11 tory, six green, 3 liberal democrats. roughly proportional to the vote but with a high threshold effect to keep out the real riffraff 🙂
I have been suprised how sophisticated the scottish electorate has been shown to be in recent elections - both to holyrood and the councils. People seem to have understood how to use preference and list votes to best effect and the results has been smaller parties and single issue campaigners can get elected and do
Our immensely personable and popular local MP has been a Conservative party whip, a junior minister and currently heads the cross-party 'Christians in Parliament' group. His weekly slot in the local free paper would suggest he would like his party to be more conservative in all sorts of ways, both economic and in old-skool toughening up rules on justice, welfare and responsibilities of the citizen. Sadly I can't find it reproduced online anywhere.
A quick search on our local paper's website and Conservative Home turns up these gems of his public political outlook though:
[url= http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Plymouth-MP-slam-s-city-s-limp-wristed-attitude/story-15889938-detail/story.html ]Crown Prosectution service too limp wristed.[/url]
[url= http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2012/03/gary-streeter-christians-are-disadvantaged-when-the-rights-of-others-trump-theirs.html ]Christians are disadvantaged when the rights of others trump theirs.[/url]
This beauty 😆 [url= http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Plymouth-MP-vows-carry-using-Christian-charity/story-15828285-detail/story.html ]It's ok to have your interns funded by a anti-gay fundamentalist christian organisation.[/url] (google them, they are well serious. They have a cure for being gay and everything.)
And especially for Mr Woppit: [url= http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/MP-ve-felt-God-s-healing-power/story-15643474-detail/story.html ]The ASA shouldn't ban adverts about God's healing power: it is up to the ASA to prove that God [i]doesn't[/i] heal, not up to the advertiser to prove that He does. [/url]
I saw this elsewhere, and thought it worth copy and pasting here. It's by a serving copper...
Met my (Tory) mp at his surgery and he began with the “we are all in it together” spiel that others on here have been fed straight from Tory boy hq.
I stopped him mid speech and explained politely that I had heard all that before,he wasn’t interested and basically told me to suck it up and take it on the chin.
Fair enough,I think went on to tell him his majority at the last election(very small) and then explained how many officers lived in his patch,quite a lot,and they have wives and husbands,mums and dads,friends and family etc and that Winsor may screw me over but I’ll happily see him and his party thrown out in 2015 if not sooner.i also added in the NHs staff,armed forces chaps,prison officers etc in his ward and that they would, we hope also make thei views felt at the ballot box.
He actually followed me out of his office asking me to come back and have a longer “chat” and that this “Winsor business” needs looking at obviously old chap.
Regulations say I can’t join a political party but I am not just a uniformed thug,I am a citizen,a taxpayer and they damn well start to take notice when the threat of the gravy train derailing rears it’s head.
Amusing little piece here :-
Europe will tear the Tories apart before too long, it always has done and it always will
The back-bench swivel-eyed loons have forgotten they did not win a majority. The electorate did not want a Tory government and did not supply a mandante as a result.
The back-bench swivel-eyed loons have forgotten they did not win a majority. The electorate did not want a Tory government and did not supply a mandante as a result.
Another (IMO completely incorrect) reading would be that the party manifesto for the last election didn't go far enough, and that a more extreme manifesto would have won more votes...
Jota, normally so true but this time Europe looks like it will tear itself apart first.
And there was me thinking the back-bench swivel-eyed loons were all selected by Central Office in the first place. And they might be remembering protest voting in the past.