Too good to be true: Issues with new (used) car

Can I legally reject the car 

Yes, if there's verifiably something definitely wrong with it.

can the dealer say a clutch is a wear and tear item

If it's 12 months into a warranty then yes, but not after a week. It didn't suddenly wear in a week, so it was clearly wrong when they sold it to you.

All that sounds like the dual mass flywheel to me. Although clunks and knocks can be a PITA to trace. I was convinced an engine mount was loose, turned out it was the exhaust back box was a bit rusty and knocking around whenever the engine moved a bit under acceleration/braking.

First issue is that its gone into limp mode a couple of times whilst trying to overtake on the motorway or a dual carriageway. I’ve done some research and one of the causes of this is a dirty fuel filter.

Did you plug in a code reader? Fuel filter issues would usually give you a low pressure code, IM(not ford)E the fault light goes out as soon as the problem goes away (i.e. you slow down a bit) but there will be a code stored in the memory.

But yea, take it back and get it fixed or your money back ASAP.

Make the phone call worthwhile and line all of your ducks up...

Stick it through an MoT, see what transpires

Beg, borrow, buy an OBD code reader and see what that throws up

By that time you'll have cooled off, digested this thread and can tackle the dealer 🙂

Didnt plug it in unfortunately but from what I can gather is that if you turn off the car and then turn it back on it will clear any stored "soft codes". On the dash it just comes up "see Manual"

The clunk can be felt through the clutch pedal as it hits the floor and then you feel it in the seat and steering wheel if that makes sense.

Make sure that you're clear of the accelerator pedal before depressing the clutch pedal [/egg-sucking]

With a car that recently purchased that’s straight back to the dealer. I wouldn’t mention you changed the fuel filter - they might try to claim you’ve fiddled around with the car - even though it’s very unlikely to be linked.

Clutch should have disengaged before the pedal hits the floor; lack of travel/hydraulics/wear?

Yep, straight back to dealer with no messing.

Get a hire car / lifts / bike lined up.

Don't let him fob you off onto one of those awful AutoProtect or similar warranties they supply them with these days!

Back to dealer.

Also it won't wipe the codes, neither my 2008 Mondeo nor my 2016 Focus do that. That would be pretty silly from a diagnostics POV.

Clutch issue sounds like it could be the bottom mount in the first instance but could also be a transmission issue. Would make sense if someone got rid because they knew a £1k+ (FMF, clutch and labour, I had mine done) bill was incoming. Either way, that's not your problem to fix.

Back to dealer, but have a quick check underneath at the lower engine mount (sometimes called gearbox mount). These can suffer wear and you'll get a clunk on gear change. If you can rock the engine front/back then it's worn. Fortunately, it's a cheap quick fix.

Is that the one we all told you not to buy? 😁

Buying used from a dealer affords you the same rights as new.

If it's bought unseen then you have 14 days to reject it and you don't need a reason.

If you went to look at it and then subsequently bought it, goods have to be as described and of satisfactory quality (taking into account age, wear etc). If it isn't, you have 30 days to return it for a refund. After 30 days, you have to give them an opportunity to fix it.

I wouldn’t mention you changed the fuel filter – they might try to claim you’ve fiddled around with the car

Also, this.

Weird with the clutch, the car looked like it had quite a sedate last 3 years in it's MoT history, but as stated in the other thread, buying a 7/8 year old ford diesel is the gamble, you're starting to get into the DPF/EGR issues then, and on Ford's that's expensive.

It's my biggest hatred of the car market of late, diesels that had their emissions tests faked, yet the buyers still end up with crap systems on their cars that have no bearing on it working, just emissions, they're all designed to fail, and be expensive when they do.

Sounds like DMF. What's it like turning the engine off without shoving the clutch in (like you're supposed to do). Does it death rattle as the engine stops?

Either way - throw it back at the dealer. And buy a big capacity non turbo petrol instead. The hit in economy is worth the lack of turbo's, fragile injectors, EGR, DPF, DMF, Swirl flaps, adblue, and what ever else fudges to get inherently dirty engines running clean.

Alan Howatt's YouTube channel put me off getting a Mondeo diesel. DMF/clutch issue should've come up on a test drive but oh well.

Have you done an enhanced check, eg https://www.vcheck.uk/ ? I'd do one even if I was buying a car from a reputable main dealer.

Yeah defo return it. For a decent sized estate on that budget Avensis Tourer is a potential - they get criticised for driver appeal but its just a workhorse so who cares. 2016 on 64k miles man diesel, £8490 - that's the 2.0 BMW lump - not sure if the swirl flap issues are relevant in this application.

Petrol: 2018, 70,585 miles, 1.8 V-Matic Business Edition Plus Touring Sports 5dr Petrol Manual Euro 6 (147 ps) £9,749

again defo pay for enhanced check on an Avensis Estate or similar, there will be clocked ex-taxis on intergalactic mileages out there

RNP has it - back to dealer for full no questions asked refund; then buy whatever volvo he recommends.

I had similar issues, was a dual mass flywheel on its way out. £2k to fix on our car, so worth getting sorted.

I'd still disagree with

Either way – throw it back at the dealer. And buy a big capacity non turbo petrol instead. The hit in economy is worth the lack of turbo’s, fragile injectors, EGR, DPF, DMF, Swirl flaps, adblue, and what ever else fudges to get inherently dirty engines running clean.

our car gets roughly double the economy (70mpg on a run, 50mpg overall) of what a large capacity NA petrol of similar power/torque in a similar body (7 seat mpv) would give, not that an engine meeting that description is available. The saving in fuel makes up for an expensive failure within 18 months.

the car looked like it had quite a sedate last 3 years in it’s MoT history

Problem is that says nothing about the previous owner(s)' clutch control.

Sounds to me like it's back to the dealer asap.

Yes the clutch is a wear and tear item but iirc  any fault in a certain short period post sale is assumed to be present at point of sale unless proved otherwise.

You never know the dealer might be decent about it.  We had a mare with a Renault we bought (I know!) for about £4000 and the dealer was amazing.

I assume you've not got it on used car finance?

Hopefully they wont just plug it in to try and find a fault code. It really bugs me when car dealers do that without actually driving and listening to the car. Dont let them fob you off.

Either way – throw it back at the dealer. And buy a big capacity non turbo petrol instead. The hit in economy is worth the lack of turbo’s, fragile injectors, EGR, DPF, DMF, Swirl flaps, adblue, and what ever else fudges to get inherently dirty engines running clean.

Diesels appear to be reliable as long as you don't expect them to perform as well as petrols, don't use them for short journeys or labour them. 70bhp per litre appears to be about the sensible limit.

Definitely back to the dealer. Although the clutch problem may have something to do with the bottom mount, you are not responsible for fixing it. Have them check it out.

Should have rung the dealer as soon as it went in to limp mode

Get them rung straight away saying the car is dangerous (it is if went in to limp mode on motorway)

Why the hell did you start messing with it though, don’t tell them you’ve touched anything

Pretty mental trying to fix it yourself when it's barely been out of the dealers for five minutes.

Don't mention you changed the fuel filter. Also mondeos are so common you could likely find one locally. I bought my previous ones privately from respectable businessmen types. Full history etc and I actually felt happier than I've ever felt if using a dealer.

My old 2005 mondeo used to clunk due to a lower gearbox mount. Think I changed that 3 times in life of car.

Also have a look at the starter motor if you can get to it/see it. If the DMF is wearing out the swarf and metal filings are attracted to the magnetic elements of the starter motor which kills it. My Transit had 3 starters during the few years I swore at it.

Have you sent it back yet?

Tick tock.

How can this be? It had a full MOT and everything.

MOT only covers safety critical components and doesn't include a road test drive. Probably won't pick up this kind of issue as it affects reliability and not likely to be dangerous.

I know. I was referring to the 'not buying unless it has FULL MOT' - 'Yes, I agree, throw the CRA / distance selling regs book at them because they advertised it as FULL MOT'

Maybe they got one of ampthill's special MOTs?

I think you missed that whole thread (you had to be there, man)

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/used-car-advertised-with-12-months-mot-but-only-has-5-what-to-do/

Have you sent it back yet?

Tick tock.

Isn't it more clunk clonk?

Isn’t it more clunk clonk?

DMF's more of a CRUNK DUGG dugga dugga dugga

Depends on the DMF design I reckon. The Passat one was just a light clickety clack at idle. Even I didn't notice for about 40k miles and I'm me.

Currently stood on the side of the M5 waiting for recovery as the clutch has completely failed.

To their credit the supplying dealer is collecting the car tomorrow and dropping off another car for me to use whilst they repair this one.

part of me want to tell them to just give my money back. The other half likes the car if the issues get sorted.

How can this be? It had a full MOT and everything

Because like much of the population you have no idea how lax and mot test is

At least there's no arguing that something is wrong with it!

I think you missed that whole thread (you had to be there, man)

Ah, right. I didn't make the connection.

Currently stood on the side of the M5 waiting for recovery as the clutch has completely failed

Hard luck Renton. I know it's dispiriting,  but they're basically a decent car. Once it's fixed and you've got past the initial nervousness it'll be a great motor.

Bugger.

Fingers crossed dealer sorts it all out. Do make sure they know everything wrong so they have the opportunity to fix it ALL not just clutch.

Because like much of the population you have no idea how lax and mot test is

I'm perfectly aware, I was taking the Mick. As per my next post

part of me want to tell them to just give my money back. The other half likes the car if the issues get sorted.

New clutch and DMF sounds like stick with it to me as much as you'll be on edge for a bit thinking "what next". Just get any other known  gremlins sorted at the same time.

You could buy something else and get stung with that bill 12 months on. Only that time you'll be paying.

Had a couple of confidence shakers on cars in the past that have turned out to be good cars overall.  Airbag light 3 weeks into ownership of the current bought at 87,000 now done 120,000 mile ford diesel and the tail light electrics failing.  Once we'd got over that stuff it's been a good motor.  Will be keeping an eye on my clutch though.  🫣

Having the clutch and dmf replaced at dealers expense is not a bad thing.

Just had to do the passat. Dmf failed after 15k - we got a guarantee from the garage on parts, or else it sound have been around 1300 to do.

Did the OP said the supplying dealer agreed to have the clutch and DMF done ? I might have missed it. Also, who is doing the job?

part of me want to tell them to just give my money back. The other half likes the car if the issues get sorted.

The DMF and clutch are unrelated to everything else.  Just because they failed doesn't mean anything else will any more than any other car.  Difference is that now you have a car with a brand new clutch and DMF. Any other car you might buy will not have that, and the same could happen a year down the road when you've got no comeback.

This is a great result, keep the car.

Get shot.

You still have the limp mode issue to sort.

Don't Get shot.

The limp mode issue is sorted.

What new clutch and DMF? Do we know that's happening?

Currently stood on the side of the M5 waiting for recovery as the clutch has completely failed.

To their credit the supplying dealer is collecting the car tomorrow and dropping off another car for me to use whilst they repair this one.

That isn't exactly the same as "the supplying dealer is collecting the car tomorrow and dropping off another car for me to use whilst they replace the clutch and DMF"  but isn't an unreasonable extrapolation.

Id be asking for my money back and going elsewhere. If they dont even check a car to see if its road worthy.

Mind you I bet they are not the only car dealers that dont do many checks.

To their credit the supplying dealer is collecting the car tomorrow and dropping off another car for me to use whilst they repair this one.

If they have agreed to sort it can I still ask for my money back as I have lost faith in the car?

I think they have the right to repair.

Let them fix it, get it back and see how it feels then.

Yes i think you can still reject.  Check tho.  Which or similar sites will have details

Mind you I bet they are not the only car dealers that dont do many checks.

If they have agreed to sort it can I still ask for my money back as I have lost faith in the car?

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/what-are-a-consumers-legal-rights-when-buying-a-car#:~:text=Under%20the%20Consumer%20Rights%20Act,date%20you%20bought%20your%20car.

Ive been mulling this over all day and have decided to reject the car on the basis that it isnt fit for purpose or of satifcatory quality.

Ive sent an email across to the supplying dealers salesman and tried to call to speak with him as a follow up but even though he was answering emails and calls this morning he has now gone radio silent.

The only issue I have is that they are coming to collect the car around 6pm today and are dropping off a car for me to use whilst this broken one is repaired. Can I just reject that one if I don't hear from the garage in time?

I just don't want the hassle of it all. Being stuck on the side of the mway for 3 and a half hours was crap and Ive completely lost faith in the car now.

Withold your number and get ringing them back !

They sound like a bunch of cowboys

I'd* be inclined to keep it, as others have said a car with no other faults that you know of and a new DMF is a better buy than a car with no other faults that you know of and an unknown DMF.

You've had the car for a week, enough time to spot any other issues, that's a better test drive than you'll get in anything else.

*hypothetical me anyway, I'm between no-car and bangernomics camp. £10k in the pension now and retire a year earlier appeals more than shiny wheels.

I would b ut the more Ive looked over it the more chips and imperfections I have found, its almost like they cover the car in something to hide all the imperfections for sale.

I would try and get my money back as £11k buys an awful lot of Mazda6 estate.

I would b ut the more Ive looked over it the more chips and imperfections I have found,

To be fair, it is 7 years old with 84,000 miles on the clock. I’d just touch in any chips to stop them rusting.

I'd sack it off on the basis that if 'Mr Fred blogs Mondeo owner' needs a clutch he takes it to the garage and pony's up for a clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder due to the labour costs in getting to everything.

If 'Mr pissed off because his profit margin has gone' fixes it how do you know he's going to put OEM/decent brand parts and replace everything that's ideally needed?

I'd also reject the car. Could be a complete coincidence that it failed so soon after purchase. Could be they knew it was ropey but decided to chance that it might last longer. If it's the latter then how much confidence would you have in a first class repair rather than a job done to minimum cost? And if something that significant is wrong, could there be other gremlins? The fact that they were super helpful when they thought you would keep it and now won't take your calls does not inspire confidence.

Plenty of other cars out there that haven't left you stranded on the M5...

Sounds to me like you found out why the last owner traded it in.

part of me want to tell them to just give my money back. The other half likes the car if the issues get sorted

If it was mine...id get a full refund and walk away. The minute you accept the loaner and he starts working that option is no longer viable, as you're accruing costs and it'll make the issue a no go.

I'd imagine this guy told you it had had a 150 (or something equally mad) point inapwctio. If it had, he'd know why its goosed.

Another way to look at this is the increase in resale value. New clutch and dmf should last a good few years, so will make it easier to sell , or get you more cash.
Or you could argue that the car you've bought should have been priced a few hundred pounds higher if they had fitted clutch prior to selling it on
If you have driven it and the drivetrain was the only issue in an otherwise sound vehicle then keep it.
Unless it turns out that it's the box that's lunched itself, although the same argument applies so long as they throw a new clutch kit on it .. although I think the dealer would refund you rather than fit gearbox plus dmf plus clutch kit and they would auction the car off and leave the issue for someone else and take a hit on the drop in value.

“New clutch and dmf should last a good few years“

How do you know the seller is going to fit OEM quality (Luk, Valeo etc) and not just the cheapest FlyingTiger brand from eBay as he watches his slim profit margins disappear.

There are millions of cars out there - the unicorns (decent branded tyres and filters, good MOT history, genuine reason for sale, nice sellers) are out there but take time and patience to find. The "oh bugger I need a car for tomorrow" cars are less likely so.

Plenty of reasons to either keep or reject which others have said

personally I’d reject it and start again.  Whilst you’ve just seen the benefit of buying from a dealer (I.you have some rights) I would prefer to buy from a private seller who has a decent reason to sell - just got a company car etc as then you can make a judgement of the last owner better.  It’s a different gamble though as for a private sale there is almost zero recourse in case of issues.

the other thing id do for a car of that type and age is go Japanese - more likely to be reliable over the long term with less spend on age related repairs - Mondeos have a habit of needing suspension bushes replaced regularly etc which whilst a cheap part need a fair bit of labour.

Japanese of course, hence my earlier suggestion to go Mazda6.

Less miles for the money, better equipped, probably more reliable, a bit more "premium". Far nicer to look at IMO, if that's important.

"nickfrog
Free Member
I would try and get my money back as £11k buys an awful lot of Mazda6 estate."

Was this a joke? I have vague recollections Renton had issues with a Mazda 6 Estate about 8yrs ago (or was that someone else?). Something to do with paint quality iirc.

Also, didn't Mazda and Ford share some parts etc/collaboration between Mondeo's and 6's. May have been earlier than the models we're talking about here as I can't remember.

My view on this is that buying cars is in itself a hassle, and always comes with risk and worry. And also that a failing DMF/clutch can be essentially consumable, and you've now had that addressed.

I'd be asking for a decent warranty on it, supplied by the dealer but from a known company, and carrying on with the car.

That's the problem though. There simply aren't millions of cars for sale in striking distance that tick your boxes.
Unless you are willing to spend hours travelling to go look at several vehicles over multiple weekends.
Or you have say £20k to spend.
Plus I don't think the Chinese pattern part produces are making dual mass flywheels yet .the ones on eBay are , for the most , part Luk or Valeo some reman stuff for Shure.

Does that year Mondeo come with a PSA lump in it?
If it does, return to dealership.

I think they have the right to repair.

Not within the first 30 days they don't.

The longer you sit procrastinating about it, the fewer rights you have.

My friend had a Mondeo diesel. It had some serious issues, turns out someone had welded the DMF back together and thrown a clutch in there. The vibration destroyed the crank therefore the engine.

Just thought I'd throw in a fun scare story. Hope you get sorted.

Was this a joke? I have vague recollections Renton had issues with a Mazda 6 Estate about 8yrs ago (or was that someone else?). Something to do with paint quality iirc.

Also, didn’t Mazda and Ford share some parts etc/collaboration between Mondeo’s and 6’s. May have been earlier than the models we’re talking about here as I can’t remember.

No joke at all. I had no idea about what happened to someone I don't know 8 years ago, it doesn't seem like irrefutable evidence of anything. Statistically you simply will have less problem with a Japanese car.

And the OP's budget will buy one with less miles than the Mondeo.

On another note I do think buying diesel does attracts a higher risk of (expensive) issues at those mileage and beyond.

For the most part yes , Japanese cars are better than Ford's.
However, the deisel Maxda6 overfuels on regen massively and some of the unburned fuel pollutes the oil in the sump , thinning it and causing engine damage.
Along with other associated issues like bore wear. Fine if you only do long journeys regenerating I'd completely finished and the engine oil gets hot enough to flash off some of the lighter volatiles .
Or buy a petrol Mazda..

Fair enough! Petrol Mazda6 probably the sweet spot.

Has @renton been abducted by the car dealer when they came to collect the car!  😱

Another in the return for refund camp here. I’d just spend every moment behind the wheel dreading the next failure.

Push the refund.

Clutch failed but are they even doing the dmf?  Sorry if I've missed that.   Will it all be done well?  Will the bad taste ever go if you keep it?

You can I guess roll back from the refund if they convince/sweeten the deal but its harder to ratchet up quickly.

Hi all,

Car collected last night. Dealer asked for bank details this morning and money already back in my account.

Someone has a really good memory about my last Mazda 6!!! it was metallic blue and the paint was pealing off the front.

Ive heard to many horror stories about the current crop of Mazda 6 diesel? Are they that bad?

I have a budget of £10750. I need something mondeo size. I need diesel as I travel lots for work. Ideally Euro 6 (Although would consider a euro 5) 2016 or newer and under 100k miles:

Options are:

Passat Estate

Mondeo

Insignia

Octavia

Audi A4

BMW 3 series

Jag XF

Is there anything else I should look at?