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Is it me or is it a bit of a damp squib?
Not really heard/read anything in the media, bro and sis in laws kids still going in, however both our kids schools are closed?
Pain in the arse again for us to sort child care!
Had a text from my lad's school that they are open for business.
I'm off up Snowdon thanks to the strike : )
The media won't mention strikes as they fear it might stir the angry spirit of Bob Crow, who will be rise from the dead and lay waste to capitalism itself
My kids school is shut. The militant leftie bastards!!! 😀
How can you judge if it is a damp squib when it's not yet actually happened?
You already know that there is some significant disruption, as such, it's already had some success, and hasn't yet started - so judging by the current state of play, it's been successful so far.
It's a bit of a nonsense as far as I can see. A third of my daughters school teachers are on strike. So two thirds of the kids are in as normal. Naturally, Sod's law dictates that my daughter is off.
I wonder if these same teachers who decry the taking of holidays in term time see a little hypocrisy here..?
Maybe I can get a £12 refund from the £60 fine I'll incur...
I certainly plan to bring it up.
Ours is shut too. ****ing annoying. I have every sympathy with teachers, I think they all do a brilliant job and should all be paid loads more and have better conditions and more holidays and get a medal and a pony and lots of gold stars. But it's still ****ing annoying when they strike and I hate them for it.
Why can't they protest by, say, clubbing together to pay an assassin to kill Michael Gove or something?
Well not really. It would appear half the schools around us are open as normal so even they can't be arsed. Normally you'd see some stuff in the press as to why, who and what for.
What are they striking about? If its Health & Safety for the children, striking over lower education/development of the children then I'm all for it. i.e. issues with a direct impact on children or is it about a direct impact on teachers pay and conditions?
What are they striking about?
Pay and workload. Not enough of the former, too much of the latter.
I wonder if these same teachers who decry the taking of holidays in term time see a little hypocrisy here..?
Teachers don't support the crack down on taking of holidays in term time, and in my experience were happy with the historic arrangements prior to the changes brought in by Gove, I'd suggest that on this score, you have a common enemy in the Education Secretary, rather than being on opposing sides.
direct impact on teachers pay and conditions
Low pay and being overworked has a direct impact on the quality of education delivered, pay and conditions are an education issue.
I've no idea but what does a qualified teacher on say 2yrs experience get paid typically? (secondary level of course) - any year.
I wonder if these same teachers who decry the taking of holidays in term time see a little hypocrisy here..?
They can probably educate you in how an industrial dispute with your employers is not like a holiday if you ask them really nicely, but not tomorrow.
then again they may just explain that they do not set govt policy
One of my kids is off one is in.
Not all of the teachers at my kids school are on strike, my daughter has to go in but my son doesn't, happy days 😕
Edit - I see I'm not the only one with this problem. Well, the wife, I'll ave hot footed it to work to avoid the fallout.
I'm gonna fine them for taking time-off during term-time - £60 per parent per child.
Back in the real world, it's a good enough excuse to take the day off and spend it with my girls. 8)
[b]SCAB!!!! [/b]
My kids school is closed, but even if it was closed then they would still be at home, important lesson to never cross a picket line.
Teacher strikes are so ineffectual, simply because there is more than one union, so it's rare the whole school is shut. Even if it does who pays any notice. Waste of time IMO.
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I'm gonna fine them for taking time-off during term-time
A day's pay should be about right.
've no idea but what does a qualified teacher on say 2yrs experience get paid typically? (secondary level of course) - any year.
about 23 or 24K I think.
Its less serious as last time as its only NUT the last one was NUT and NASUWT.
I shall be working but only 6th form will be in.
Teacher strikes are so ineffectual, simply because there is more than one union, so it's rare the whole school is shut. Even if it does who pays any notice.
the piss is reaching a simmer here already, by tomorrow it will be boiling!!
Last strike only my daughters teacher was not working, this time none of them are, so we are not affected.
Does seem that too many unions not co-ordinating action does weaken their position?
loddrik - MemberI wonder if these same teachers who decry the taking of holidays in term time see a little hypocrisy here..?
I am not a teacher, but, there is no hypocrisy- going on holiday isn't the same as industrial action so why try and spin a connection?
going on holiday isn't the same as industrial action so why try and spin a connection?
It depends if the striking teachers are all huddled around a fire shouting at passers by to honk their support or if they will be doing something else given that they are to all intents "off" work. If they do something like er... lets think..... go up Snowdon then it is "similar" to a day off isnt it?
I'm no fan of teachers strikes, or unions in general tbh, but the connection with holidays in term time is cobblers.
Teachers may choose to withdraw their labour in a protest and they will lose a days pay. Same as the rest of us, who will inconvenience the people who use our service,.
Choosing to take your kids out of school for a week or two so that you can have a cheaper holiday and so keep up with the Joneses is a load of selfish First World tosh.
Though a head teacher should have some discretion to allow time off in term time for genuine reasons (family events or a visit to the Incan ruins etc) if the child's academic performance would not be adversely affected. Which leaves plenty of scope for common sense to be applied, if the head has the balls to refuse the piss takers.
My Wife is a teacher, however she isn't on strike tomorrow, and doesn't believe the strikes will achieve anything.
She even refers to the Strikes as 'Bluewater Days' or 'Pizza Express Days' as most of the striking staff spend the day shopping or having lunch together.
Our Daughters School is closed, so we've got to pay the child minder to have her for the whole day.
Bit of a waste of time if you ask me.
Don't think ours is closed, if it was then it would give the mrs something to do rather than going for lunch with friends.... 🙂 (its OK she never visits this site so im safe....)
Only way they will achieve anything is an all out indefinite length strike
Businesses and parents would whinge so much the government would have to act especially wth an election not too far off
Waste of time pissing about with a day here and there.
I'm a TA but I'll be in school til 7/8 tonight getting mindless crap done so I have tomorrow off as its nice weather.
I think this 'not paying them if they don't go to work' is a brilliant idea
I'd be willing to bet that we'd see the end of the six week summer holidays pretty sharpish if that became the norm 😆 (annual 28 days statutory paid holiday)
Got to put a days holiday in tomorrow as the boys school is closed, my college is still open though so had to get cover for my classes.
Bloody teachers.... oh wait..
She even refers to the Strikes as 'Bluewater Days' or 'Pizza Express Days' as most of the striking staff spend the day shopping or having lunch together.
Mrs Pondo is also a teacher - on the rare occasions her lot are on strike, it's an opportunity to do more work.
surfer - MemberIf they do something like er... lets think..... go up Snowdon then it is "similar" to a day off isnt it?
Of course it's a day off. It's just not a holiday. They're not doing it in order to go up snowdon, that's just what they're doing as a result of being off.
Ironically, the UK's draconian anti-strike laws actually make it illegal for most people on strike to picket.
it's an opportunity to do more work.
Thats more like it 😀
As a teacher I had no idea it existed.
What's the fine for one child out of school for one week?
Unless they go out for a few weeks, which is unthinkable in their eyes, then they will achieve nothing just agravate the workers who have kids to loook after or pay someone to look after them.
A proper strike is all out, picketing during working hours, turning suppliers and deliveries around and not crossing picket lines,perhaps they need to read some history boks tommorow while standing outside the school gates picketing.
Unless they go out for a few weeks, which is unthinkable in their eyes, then they will achieve nothing
Since the action started, the STRB threw out much of Gove's proposals, Gove published the hours survey, and we won a 1% pay rise this year. That would count as achieving something, right?
A proper strike is all out, picketing during working hours, turning suppliers and deliveries around and not crossing picket lines,perhaps they need to read some history boks tommorow while standing outside the school gates picketing.
We decided not to picket the College, as we felt it wasn't fair on the students who did still have lessons. In previous strikes, we've stood on the opposite side of the road with banners, leaflets, etc. with just one person at the main gate.
I don't think we'll have anyone outside tomorrow, because the local rally is up in Newcastle so most will be travelling up there.
On the first strike, I was outside the college, and went to the rally. Same on the second day.
Last time, my wife and kids were all off, so we had a nice day out as a family.
Tomorrow, I'll be at home alone as my wife and kids aren't off. Seems silly to spend the day doing nothing, so I'm going to be marking coursework. This'll save me doing it when I could spend time with my family instead.
What's the fine for one child out of school for one week?
£60 per parent per day, IIRC. So, £600 for a week if there are two parents. That's Gove's fault rather than teachers.
Since the action started, the STRB threw out much of Gove's proposals, Gove published the hours survey, and we won a 1% pay rise this year. That would count as achieving something, right?
The employers awarded you a 1 % rise like a lot of other workers got.
50 mile ride planned, with a stop halfway in Exeter for a bit of marching 😉
....and no, it's not analogous to taking holiday - we don't get paid for the time off.
£60 per parent per day, IIRC. So, £600 for a week if there are two parents
Just 60 quid per parent per holiday, not per day. If it was per day that might change things!
A teachers/college lecturer's strike acheives nothing. The public hate you, the government save a day's pay and the world goes on as if nothing ever happened. I know, I was there once!
The employers awarded you a 1 % rise like a lot of other workers got.
After 3 or 4 years of no rises. And also increased our pension contributions, so we didn't see any of it. At our place, we're also doing 5% more contact time with larger class sizes, so we have a lot more marking and admin to do.
A teachers/college lecturer's strike acheives nothing. The public hate you, the government save a day's pay and the world goes on as if nothing ever happened. I know, I was there once!
Apart from the things already achieved, of course.
project - MemberA proper strike is all out, picketing during working hours, turning suppliers and deliveries around and not crossing picket lines
And then they all get arrested.
and why would they get arrested, strikes are still allowed,
ah and heres the rub striking teachers dont lose a days pay they lose 1/365 of annual salary quite a bit less than a days pay as they are only employed 260 days per year..so a teacher on 30k earns 115 a day where as they will only lose 82 so in effect they are earning 33 quid for doing nowt..
project - Memberand why would they get arrested, strikes are still allowed,
Strikes are allowed. The sort of strikes you describe are not- to quote the picket code,
"The only purposes of picketing declared lawful in statute are:
• peacefully obtaining and communicating information: and
• peacefully persuading a person to work or not to work."
It's a criminal offence to stop suppliers/deliveries from getting through as you suggest. Blocking a public highway- even if you let people through on request- is also an offence. (you can politely ask people not to make deliveries; but you've no way of stopping them to politely ask, so in practice this means you're allowed to watch them drive past). Oh I suppose you could ask loudly but that's breach of the peace.
Maybe most importantly, the police have discretion to stop any "mass picket" at will where there is an "excessive number of pickets"- which is not defined, but the advice is that this can apply to any picket of more than 6 people. Failure to stop immediately when asked is a criminal offence
So when you see a pathetic looking picket and think "Not many people, must be a rubbish strike", remember it's because they know the police can close the whole thing down if it gets any bigger. We had a pretty good turnout on our last strike but most people don't believe it as there wasn't a mob outside. The TV footage made it look more like a bunch of staff nipping out for a fag.
I'm sure it's purely coincidental that the law on strikes just happens to make all legal pickets look pathetic and undermanned.
If I am only emplyed for 260 days can I cancel the two days of teaching I'll be doing during the easter "holidays"?
I'm losing 1/260 of my salary tomorrow.
should be bloody grateful they have a decent job.
Plenty of teaching jobs going if you want one.
mike you could probably argue that if you want, in the lgps strike a couple of years back we got docked 1/260 but then it got changed to 1/365. I agree it seems over generous but wasn't going to argue with it!
should be bloody grateful they have a decent job.
They are but they also want a decent and pay to go with it.
I don't believe in the public sector taking full industrial action I could never do it but I wishy them the best of luck.
mike you could probably argue that if you want, in the lgps strike a couple of years back we got docked 1/260 but then it got changed to 1/365. I agree it seems over generous but wasn't going to argue with it!
It was 1/200 until we got it changed.
poah - Member
should be bloody grateful they have a decent job.
I assume that was an attempt at cutting edge STW humour but just in case it wasn't.............
............. Cameron et al appear to be doing a remarkably good job in creating that sort of mindset.
Cameron et al appear to be doing a remarkably good job in creating that sort of mindset.
Do the Tories really want people to think like that ?
That to have a decent job is something which people should be grateful for because crap jobs are now the norm in Tory Britain ?
Low expectations for ordinary working people, but high rewards, even for failure, for them ?
I can't see people falling for that sort of nonsense - surely not many people are that stupid ?
They are but they also want a decent and pay to go with it.I don't believe in the public sector taking full industrial action I could never do it but I wishy them the best of luck.
they do get a decent wage
I assume that was an attempt at cutting edge STW humour but just in case it wasn't.............
no humour intended, it was my honest opinion. As someone who has been unemployed effectively for 4 years I'm disgusted by the way teachers act. I'm pretty sure they knew it would be hard work going into the career.
They complain and fine parents if they take children out of school during term time but seem ok with not turning up themselves. This causes no end of issues for working parents which frankly is unacceptable.
ernie_lynch - Member
Cameron et al appear to be doing a remarkably good job in creating that sort of mindset.
Do the Tories really want people to think like that ?
Well wether they do or not, lots of us in the private sector do, they (teachers) are more than adequately remunerated and they have the benefit of a pension system, which would be fair enough if the results of their efforts were employable without a serious amount of further education and training, er by the private sector which isn't adequately remunerated nor pensioned. So, only anger here, first thing I even knew about a strike was dropping the daughter off to an empty school this morning. Personally, in this climate, I think they are on a hiding to nothing.
they do get a decent wage
It's about pay, pensions, and conditions. If you think that teachers enjoy decent pay, pensions, and conditions, then you will fully understand why they want to defend them.
They complain and fine parents if they take children out of school during term time but seem ok with not turning up themselves.
No, teachers do not fine parents. Schools and local authorities fine parents.
This causes no end of issues for working parents which frankly is unacceptable.
Doesn't really affect you though does it what with you being unemployed.
Given the required qualifications, training and responsibility a teacher's remuneration package isn't that great.
Doesn't really affect you though does it what with you being unemployed.
Classy
Well wether they do or not, lots of us in the private sector do, they (teachers) are more than adequately remunerated
"Us in the private sector" ? I'm in the private sector and I don't agree with you. Lots of 'us in the private sector' believe that teachers should receive decent pay, pensions, and conditions. And reject the argument that they should have less favourable pay, pensions, and conditions.
Lots 'of us in the private sector' believe that teachers should receive decent pay, pensions, and conditions. And reject the argument that they should have less favourable pay, pensions, and conditions.
I am in the private sector as well and and I suppose the issue is that I feel that they already get the former.
... which would be fair enough if the results of their efforts were employable without a serious amount of further education and training...
So the education system exists solely to produce more efficient drones for your office?
I am in the private sector as well and and I .....
Excellent, we have established that it has nothing to do with private v public sector, despite what Tory newspaper leader writers would like us to think.
Given the importance I place on education I believe that good teachers deserve to be well remunerated and better than they are now *. But that is not the same as saying that teaching does not enjoy "decent" benefits (however decent is defined). That does not stack up against rel stats on national benefits.
Pensions are not going to go away as an issue. Prepare properly (difficult with gov stealing money via financial repression granted) but sticking head in the sands is not the answer. Ok, dealing with Gove is a nightmare but no reason IMO not to embrace performance related pay, if properly managed. Unless, of course....
*£26k for fully qualified versus £20k offered by Big 4 to be an [b]undergrad[/b] seems unbalanced! (leaving aside the obvious reasons)
Lots 'of us in the private sector' believe that teachers should receive decent pay, pensions, and conditions. And reject the argument that they should have less favourable pay, pensions, and conditions.
I am in the private sector as well and and I suppose the issue is that I feel that they already get the former.
Teachers are trying to preserve their current pay and conditions, not asking for more.
Most teachers are striking because of their fears for the education system in the future, not because they want extra cash in their pocket for less work.
Mike, NUT cite two key reasons - performance related pay and national pay awards - so today seems more about remuneration than the mess with curriculum and constant change etc
(Almost) Everyone has the right to withdraw their labour as have others to opine on whether that is justified or not.
Mike, NUT cite two key reasons - performance related pay and national pay awards - so today seems more about remuneration than the mess with curriculum and constant change etc
Changes in remuneration will impact recruitment and retention of staff in the future. This will affect the education system of the future.
[url= http://www.teachers.org.uk/campaigns/protect-teachers ]On the NUT website, three main issues are highlighted[/url]:
* Excessive workload and bureaucracy
* Performance related pay
* Unfair pension changes
I'd love to do a job swap then watch them bleat about conditions.
I knew what I was getting into, I'm still here, if I strike I get nothing other than a probable p45.
However in their defence.
After a recent parents evening my eyes have been somewhat further opened.
Class sizes are too big, teachers are worked hard and don't live the cushy life some like to think they get.
I'd love to do a job swap then watch them bleat about conditions.
Can people saying things like this tell us what their job is?
I knew what I was getting into, I'm still here
So did I. But what I got into is changing for the worse, so I'm doing something about it.
However in their defence.
After a recent parents evening my eyes have been somewhat further opened.
Class sizes are too big, teachers are worked hard and don't live the cushy life some like to think they get.
Ta
Sorry mike took (1) as read 😉
Can people saying things like this tell us what their job is?
Self-employed...I think most everyone here knows what I do. If I don't work a day for whatever reason, I don't get paid. I have no sick-pay. I have no paid holidays. I'm not in a union. Backbone of the nation I am, me, yeah.
I wouldn't swap for a day, let alone a week or month.
(Oh and my mum (retired) and sister are both teachers, so of course, I'm more than qualified to "opine" 🙂 )
Construction site agent,
Brickie
Joiner
Groundworker
General ****ing dogs body!
The Spanish teacher I came across was in my eyes the epitome of a perfect teacher, her general aura was one of enthusiasm and a drive to teach the kids the best way she could. She seemed so dedicated, knew our daughter personally and not just as a pupil and most of all made us feel she actually cared!
Then she dropped the bomb shell that she was leaving as languages was no longer on the main curriculum (?) and as she was last in she was first out.
Better one day strikes than we work to rule. If teachers did the hours that Gove a) claims we do,or b) says we should do, education would be stuffed.
derekfish - MemberWell wether they do or not, lots of us in the private sector do, they (teachers) are more than adequately remunerated
I went from the private sector to the public sector and for some reason my opinion on teacher ts&cs didn't change overnight, it's almost like it's got nothing to do with anything. Job's a job regardless of whether it's private or public.
poah - MemberThey complain and fine parents if they take children out of school during term time but seem ok with not turning up themselves.
Strikes of course are always exclusively the fault of the person striking. Why not blame the employer for not meeting their demands? There'd be no strike if they did. It's not teachers that fine parents and it's not teachers that control working conditions.
Schools don't strike at the drop of a hat, teacher strikes are actually pretty rare. Just because they're doing it doesn't meant they're "ok" with it, most teachers don't want to be out on strike- they're choosing from 2 bad options. So comparing with holidays is still absurd.
People say "They knew the job would be hard when they signed up"- apparently oblivious to the fact that this is all about it getting worse. And weirdly, people are fine with saying you shouldn't go on strike to get improvements because "You knew what you signed up for" but at the same time, don't think you should complain when you [i]don't[/i] get what you signed up for. What is that? Everything's binding only on one party?