[Closed] Today’s Unpleasant Surprise

Can you have "right wing snowflakes" ?? OK now I am very confused. Surely snowflakes are by definition white liberals ?? Am I getting my epithets confused ?? What should I do, I know I will petition the Guardian to write us a guide.

etc etc

Snowflake is generally meant to describe white liberals being over-sensitive and getting 'triggered', but I'm using it to take the piss because it turns out that lots of these right-wing types are actually incredibly sensitive.

So when someone mentions a vile racist incident where Brexit was explicitly referenced, and clearly says 'I'm not calling all Brexit supporters racist', several posters get all up in arms about 'how dare you try and associate Brexit with racism', etc etc.

Edit: thanks Klunk, exactly

*sitting and finding myself nodding in agreement with bencooper*

No, not really. If you think the increase in overt and unprovoked racism that has occurred since the Brexit vote has nothing to do with Brexit, then I’m afraid the only damning indictment is on your rather poor observational skills.

Erm a tad harsh. Where did I say the increase in racism has nothing to do with Brexit? Where did I even mention an increase in racism? My point was I was surprised at the attitude of the people on the boat but no longer surprised such attitudes exist.

If my observational skills are that bad I wouldn't have noticed it going on.

Chill out.

I don't know if we've now moved on from the original post but: OP, that's utterly horrendous.

Things like this remind me of how naive I am in thinking that this kind of directed and very vocal racism wasn't really a British thing any more. Without wishing to make it worse, it boggles the mind that someone would even go to that mentally in terms of things to shout at a stranger.

Things like this remind me of how naive I am in thinking that this kind of directed and very vocal racism wasn’t really a British thing any more. Without wishing to make it worse, it boggles the mind that someone would even go to that mentally in terms of things to shout at a stranger.

This this and this

<p style="padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; line-height: 1.5rem; color: #444444; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; margin: 1rem 0px !important;">sexist and proud of it
match-going football supporters
WWII fanatics
blame traffic density on immigrants
Military
live in Essex</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; line-height: 1.5rem; color: #444444; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; margin: 1rem 0px !important;">So why wasn’t I surprised these people voted leave? Sometimes you don’t need statistics to make correlations.</p>

Not if you’re just airing your own nasty prejudices whilst criticising those of others.

Agreed with most of what BenCooper posted, but I was struck by the irony of them being posted by someone who supports Scottish Independence. Same arguments!

" Without wishing to make it worse, it boggles the mind that someone would even go to that mentally in terms of things to shout at a stranger. "

Great sentence.

airtragic

Not if you’re just airing your own nasty prejudices whilst criticising those of others.

Quite.

if this is where we are going as a country

Its where we’ve always been. Brexit it just the latest buzzword for these **** wits to use.

I apologise Freester if I got the wrong end of the stick, but I took your last point (the bit I quoted) to be strong criticism of the connection the OP drew between the abuse he received and Brexit. I’m guessing that’s not what you meant.

strong criticism of the connection the OP drew between the abuse he received and Brexit. I’m guessing that’s not what you meant.*

OP here.  Just for clarity - I didn’t infer this connection.  The racist idiot in the original situation, stated that post-Brexit, I would be sent to where I came from.

Regardless of your positions, I appreciate the support shown to me on this thread.

*Not responding to you Zokes, your post was appreciated.

"something as far reaching and weighty as this should never have been left to the will of the people and should have been managed at every stage by ideological expert analysts."

But they thought we were idiots, and in the vote, will accede to their views that we keep the status quo.
Why do you think the Remain side were so poor during the campaign - because they were sure they had it going their way by a long way, so no need to campaign, as "everyone knew we should stay in."
They've had a kick up the backside now, but they still havent changed anything, hence TM calling the election last year, thinking she'd got it in the bag. They have no idea what people think.

Putting the vote result all down to immigration doesnt help the remainers cause either.I think immigration should be controlled. Being in the EU means no way of controlling immigration. It isnt racist to have that view, though I can see the real thickheads , as in the OPs man, seeing they now co-relate an EU leave as being an immigrant out vote. That was never going to happen.

Being in the EU means no way of controlling immigration.

I’m sorry, but that’s utter utter shite, and what’s more, deep down you probably know that, but cling to it out of some futile attempt to justify your position.

What’s more, this view isn’t that far removed from the “real thickhead’s”, and shares a complete lack of understanding with that view.

Are you racist? Probably not.

Have you made a totally falicious argument based upon the EU and immigration? Yes.

Does that indicate you have xenophobic tendencies? Quite possibly.

What specifically is it that you don’t like about immigration from the EU?

OP - sorry to hear about the way you've been treated. The vast majority of people in the country aren't like that.

You say that it happened near the school. Is it possible he was a parent and the school could help you identify him? Or get the guy's number plate from CCTV?

I imagine the cops/courts will take that sort of abuse very seriously.

All the racism incidents I've witnessed happened before the Brexit vote- just saying.

I do feel racists have been empowered by the vote but maybe thats because people keep saying it.

"Being in the EU means no way of controlling immigration. "

"I’m sorry, but that’s utter utter shite, and what’s more, deep down you probably know that, but cling to it out of some futile attempt to justify your position. "

Being a full Member, you have to have freedom of movement. Anyone from the EU can come here, as we can go anywhere in the EU.
Locally, it has forced up rental prices for houses by a good deal.I'm in a decent job, on less than UK average wage, my OH has a job at NM wage, with our combined incomes, we would not be able to buy a house ourselves now.We are OK, as we bought 20 years ago. Now think how the people in their 20's feel. There are 1000's of people who have no chance of ever buying a house, as they are now far too expensive.
Locally, there is the expansion of Universities that has also put up the price of houses so they are beyond the price that can be afforded by young people. The 'cheap' areas of mass terrace houses, which young people would rent/maybe buy are no longer affordable, as they now occupied by 4 or 5 people, all working, or in education.
This influx of people from the EU has also depressed wages, as, basically, Bosses can pay less as they have plenty of people who will take the jobs.

Controlled immigration, not a problem, but when you have thousands of people coming at once, and all living in the same area, it causes a lot of local problems and leads to less work, less housing and less opportunity for local people.This is one of the reasons people voted to leave the EU.

Anyone from the EU can come here, as we can go anywhere in the EU.

Well, that’s not uncontrolled migration. Firstly, we can still stop people at the border if there are legal reasons for doing so: why do you have your passport checked on the way back from France?

Secondly, we still strongly control immigration from all countries external to the EU, and have always had the right to do so.

And then we get to the “cheap labour” trope, which is also quite frankly bollocks. The vast majority of EU workers in the UK are doing jobs that the UK workforce hasn’t been able to fill, and these range from fruit pickers to brain surgeons.

Lastly, when we go cap in hand to other countries begging for FTAs once we’ve left the EU, what do you think they’ll all demand? I’m pretty sure relaxed visa requirements will be up there. If you don’t like “uncontrolled migration” from the EU, I strongly suspect you’re going to be somewhat less keen on it from BRICS countries.

So yes, utter utter shite.

Agreed with most of what BenCooper posted, but I was struck by the irony of them being posted by someone who supports Scottish Independence. Same arguments!

There is no similarity between Brexit and Scottish independence. None at all. Brexit is xenophobic, inward-looking, anti-democratic and focused on dragging the UK back to some golden age when there was an empire and foreigners knew their place. Scottish independence is about being open and welcoming to people who want to come here, forging closer ties with Europe and our other neighbours, being progressive and being more democratic.

+1 Ben

There is no similarity between Brexit and Scottish independence.

What bollocks.

You want to take back control from Westminster.

You want to keep having referendums until you get the result you want.

Plenty of Nats hate the English, and most don't give two shits about the Welsh.

It's financial suicide.

There are many similarities.

Back on topic, I'm glad that it seems that I live in an area fairly free from racism, compared to other posters experiences.
Last time I witnessed overt racism was in London when a black bus driver suggested that the mother of a half black pedestrian must have been a slag as he wasn't properly black, which was an eye opener to say the least.

That fool who abused the OP would have still been a selfish racist who felt he was entitled to that car park space  whether we had had the EU membership referendum of not.

Years back I had a Mexican American friend. In about 2004 we went out drinking and he got called an Iraqi POS while (or for) chatting to a white girl at the bar. If Britain hadn't recently gone back into Iraq it wouldn't have changed the idiots prejudice he would still have been racist, it was just a topical insult is all.

(I voted leave and am cool with people who aren't white British. I don't agree with the ethos of the EU and while I know that leaving has and is going to cause problems and hardship I'd rather take a risk in the hope that things will be better in the long term. I may well be wrong but looking at the disgusting state of our society I figured the risk was worth it)

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: #eeeeee;">There is no similarity between Brexit and Scottish independence. None at all. Brexit is xenophobic, inward-looking, anti-democratic and focused on dragging the UK back to some golden age when there was an empire and foreigners knew their place. Scottish independence is about being open and welcoming to people who want to come here, forging closer ties with Europe and our other neighbours, being progressive and being more democratic.</span>

Lol. I think there’s an inconveniently big overlap between Leave voters and Yes voters for that narrative, no? People seemed to concede that not all Leave voters were xenophobic racists but a minority were. No blood and soil nationalists among the Yes voters? Would there have been any unpleasantness towards English folk living in Scotland if Yes had won, in among all the joyous, civic stuff?

Think some of you guys have got your wires crossed. The Yes campaign for Scottish independence was never about xenophobia there are no similarities with the Brexiters. It’s quite the opposite really. Just shows how some folk have never grasped it. In Scotland we welcome immigration and love our human rights. There are bellend racists though can’t say England is the only place with them.

[b]lazlowoodbine[/b] wrote:

That fool who abused the OP would have still been a selfish racist who felt he was entitled to that car park space  whether we had had the EU membership referendum of not.

(I voted leave

It's alright, I'd already guessed - it was the combination of completely missing the point and being defensive.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: #eeeeee;">Plenty of Nats hate the English.</span>

English people, like my English-born father? My English-born partner? Hatred of the English is very much a minority opinion.

Not every Brexit voter is racist, but every single racist voted for Brexit.

i don’t go in my local any more after having a massive barney with the thick-as-mince Sun-reading regulars, after seeing my arse at their flippant blaming of all the countries ills on ‘****’s’ and ‘****s’.

All of them vote UKIP. All of them are vile racists. All are also enthusiastically pro-Brexit

It’s alright, I’d already guessed – it was the combination of completely missing the point and being defensive

That assumption says more about you than me.As for defensive, you edited out the line three below where I acknowledged I may well be wrong, how defensive is that?

Still I'm glad you're around to decide for everyone what the point of things are, you fill a totally unnecessary role very well.

😆 still being defensive! The accurate assumption you mean - the one I made after reading your first sentence? The sentence which followed the same pattern as the other replies on this thread by leave voters - it didn't take a huge leap of reasoning.

You still seem to be missing the point that without the referendum result he might not have felt emboldened to openly express his racism.

But they thought we were idiots, and in the vote, will accede to their views that we keep the status quo.

As I said earlier, we are idiots, relatively.  Read back for context.

I don't want the status quo.  I think that positing the alternative to "leave" as "do nothing" was a mistake.  The alternative is Reform.

Being in the EU means no way of controlling immigration.

Demonstrable tabloid nonsense.  Despite the fact that we already do restrict immigration and the rights of immigrants to work / stay, we have many ways of further controlling immigration which unlike most other EU countries we've chosen not to excercise.  If you want to blame someone for "uncontrolled" immigration you need look no further than the current government you're seeking to hand even more power to.

That fool who abused the OP would have still been a selfish racist who felt he was entitled to that car park space  whether we had had the EU membership referendum of not.

True, but before the referendum he'd probably have kept his mouth shut.

"You still seem to be missing the point that without the referendum result he might not have felt emboldened to openly express his racism."

I disagree. He'd still have said it (or words to the effect, he just wouldn't have said, 'after Brexit')

Reading some of this is like the exact opposite of what I imagine an EDL forum would be like!

Quite. That's why I gave the example of my Mexican friends experience, though I realise the situation was a little different.

Yes being exposed to abuse such as that the OP was is bad but if what is basically political restructuring is all it needs to come to the surface so easily then we have a far wider problem to look at. I still maintain the mentioning of brexit was just topical and not of some deeper meaning (can you imagine someone who would say such things having a "deeper"?)

There are people in this country who hate others based on ridiculous, petty notions, they are of all colours and creeds.

Yeah, that's right it's just a topical thing, and nothing to do with such people seeing Brexit as an affirmation of their wishes to get rid of anybody they see as an immigrant. Because clearly Brexit had nothing at all to do with immigration 🙄

Political restructuring - I'm sure that's exactly how such people think of Brexit (though TBH to suggest that's all it is is either naive or disingenuous).

You just keep on defending though.

Defending what exactly? I have no reason to defend myself unless I feel threatened, which I really don't I'm afraid.

If you want your views and are preaching free speech etc then you have to accept all views

binners

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; background-color: #eeeeee;">Not every Brexit voter is racist, but every single racist voted for Brexit.</span>

Allowing for the ones that didn't bother to vote that is so, so true. Couldn't have put it better.

"Lol. I think there’s an inconveniently big overlap between Leave voters and Yes voters for that narrative, no? People seemed to concede that not all Leave voters were xenophobic racists but a minority were. No blood and soil nationalists among the Yes voters? Would there have been any unpleasantness towards English folk living in Scotland if Yes had won, in among all the joyous, civic stuff?"

AS an English born man with an very english name and accent I can tell you anti english predjudice is nowadays very rare indeed and I saw none during the independence referendum campaign

I am very sensitive to racism of any sort.  the only racism I saw during the independence campaign was anti scots.  " too small, too wee, too feart"

Being a full Member, you have to have freedom of movement. Anyone from the EU can come here, as we can go anywhere in the EU.

"There are people in this country who hate others based on ridiculous, petty notions, they are of all colours and creeds."

Never a truer word said. One example was a prisoner who was on A wing a while back & was down for a mandatory drug test. Before the test begins we'd go through some questions about religion & ethnicity etc. There's a list of religions & 'are you British, Asian, Chinese, Irish, Irish traveller', etc etc. My mate never got the word 'British' out of his mouth when a tirade about him NOT being British came out. Stuff like, 'I'm not ****ing British, do I ****ing look British, I'm ****ing ****stani!'
'Well sorry but a lot of people who maybe don't 'look' British ****ing well are'! replied my mate!
There was proper venom in this prisoners voice as well.

[b]lazlowoodbine[/b] wrote:

Defending what exactly? I have no reason to defend myself unless I feel threatened, which I really don’t I’m afraid.

Defending your decision to vote Leave! I hadn't realised the concept of defending your actions was so hard to understand. Clearly you do feel threatened - by the suggestion that the Leave vote has given rise to increased boldness by racists like the one in the OP.

Nope.

TJ, I’m very glad to hear it. That doesn’t square with my experience I’m afraid, but then you are more up to date! Stuff like this still pops up in my Facebook feed mind:

https://randompublicjournal.com/2018/02/15/clearance-britains-guilt-ridden-denial/

If that’s not English-hating historical whitewashing I don’t know what is!