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In the last couple of days visited a couple beer gardens, both times big family groups including small children and adults from 30s into their 60sAdults swearing regularly in conversation including regular f this f that and not quietly either. Will they be surprised if that normalises it for them when they grow up ?
And riding at FOD recently found this little boy with his bike all by himself. He asked with a trembling bottom lip and holding back tears if we could help him he'd lost his dad . His dad had told him if he got lost to head back to the cafe , he was about 5 didn't know how to find it . I took him back while my mate went looking for his dad . Then the little boy said he had his dad's phone number in his pocket. By some miracle I got a signal he came back and met us . Little boy so relieved to see him all dad could say was you just didn't want to climb the hill did you 😡
Apparently he'd had trouble with his saddle seems that was more important than where his son was ! 😡
I'd like to say neither are typical, but having a neuro diverse son means he does the swearing when we're out and about, I keep telling him not to behave like he's at school 😀
Edit: his school is great btw
The dad is an arsehole.
I overheard a guy talking to his kid, I'd guess 8-9 years old (who was asking for some Lego in the supermarket) saying "I've already told you, you stupid f***ing tw*t you can't fing have it, you haven't got enough fing money have you, you d**khead"
I know having kids is tough but I can't imagine ever talking to them like that.
That dad is a real piece of shit by the sounds of it. Very lucky that you were there to help the poor lad
The first point tho, in not too sure that's indicative of bad parents. I swear a lot, I've got a relaxed attitude to it. I don't think everyone shares the same attitude to it tho, and I minimise it when I'm out, but it is habitual and sometimes they slip out. I don't mind if my kids swear, to a lesser degree, but they don't and I'm more comfortable knowing that they can be themselves if they want to and not hide things away from me. I don't think that makes me a bad parent and my kids are pretty decent kids.
Please don't post any more tales of parents/carers/adults being awful to children. It's not pleasant reading.
And in answer to the OP, no, it isn't typical.
I wouldn't worry about the swearing thing - just listen to a mainstream teenage pop star like Masie Peters, fans probably kids from 12....swears like a docker. Even Taylor Swift has gone down the sweary betty route. My brother in laws 10 year old can sing all the words.....
The second point - dad was a total dick obvs - but if it had been a 10-12 yr old probably OK
Regretably, both are examples of ignorant selfish behaviour which is becoming normalised.
Arseholes, all of them.
Next door to me the mother regularly is heard swearing at the kids both under 5.
The reached peak slob yelling "I'm smoking a fag!" The other day when one of the kids shouted to hear.
I understand why her fella regularly work long hours.
I'd say the swearing loudly in a pub garden is pretty normal (unfortunately).
Sadly, it is becoming normalised (the swearing bit). I don't think it should be in a family group, but I'm not naive enough to think they don't hear it at school, or in music, and among their friends. We all did it as kids didn't we?
I didn't let them swear as younger kids, then gradually the seriousness of words was relaxed (so piss, shit nobhead, etc. we're gradually OK and then the F word on occasion) and now they're 17 and 19 pretty much all is fair game except the C bomb and that has been used for effect a couple of times and has of course appeared on TV or films we've watched. But I still 'oy' them if I think it's gratuitous, and it certainly isn't normalised, so that when we go and see my 80 year grandparents, or sit in a restaurant then I know they're absolutely not likely to let slip anything unsuitable.
Which I think is what language is - like different clothes for different purposes, I can hold my own in a moshpit or football crowd but could also do a talk to the WI and just choose my linguistic outfit for the occasion.
Even Taylor Swift has gone down the sweary betty route.
She hasn't been a kids' artist for at least a decade - if she ever was. And tbf her lyricism would have a net positive effect on her kid-fans' vocab.
Swearing round kids in public is becoming normalized in some places, come across it all the time.
As for the dad leaving his kid in the FOD? That's not normal at all. Kids do wander off and bring in a bike can disappear rapidly but the reaction of the dad when he came back says a lot about his parenting skills.
My 5 year old has just started school. I eagerly await him swearing for the first time.
On the swearing front, when I first moved from the tools into the office I mentioned to a senior manager that I changed the way I spoke between site and office. He looked perplexed as I was one of them now. I reminded him the guys on site work harder for one of Thiers than one of the office. Suppose I'm trying to say different situations require different vocabularies.
The dad's a **** *.
I have shouted at my boys, always felt bad about it and always taken the time to make up afterwards and explain why I shouted.
Both sets of people sound terrible. The dad particularly so. I’m not overly fussed with swearing but there is a time, place and context for it. In front or at young kids not fulfilling any of those criteria unless you’re a complete ****ing dickhead.
My dad was useless and my mother not far behind. They really shouldn’t have had kids. Then again, I suppose mine wouldn’t exist without them so they did some good I guess.
Please don’t post any more tales of parents/carers/adults being awful to children. It’s not pleasant reading.
My Mrs is a primary teacher in a rough part of Sheffield. She could break your heart with a new story every single day.
There’s definitely a parenting crisis in this country..
You're not wrong there.
in the toilet that is britain today, non of this suprises me.
There’s definitely a parenting crisis in this country..
You’re not wrong there.
I would go further- many people call for schools and social services to sort out the mess left by chaotic lives and poor parenting. It's time to invest in parents, in support and training, in the fact that they are vital to our nation's health and wellbeing, success and sustainability.
And move away from expecting either a miracle to happen without effort or schools to sort it out for us.
<p style="text-align: left;">I think of all the couples who spend years and years trying IVF that would make tremendous parents yet some seem to be baby making machines who don't deserve the gift and privilege 😔😔</p>
It’s time to invest in parents, in support and training, in the fact that they are vital to our nation’s health and wellbeing, success and sustainability.
Told this tale before, MrsSteve was up past midnight on the day of the 2019 election writing a court report to have a child taken into care, which she said could have been prevented with the early intervention that Surestart would have picked up.
We have to take a long term view. Support parents who struggle, give kids a stable home and education, better out of school opportunities, break the cycle of delinquency. Improved educational outcomes, better skills and job prospects, better earnings, more tax take, less spending on childrens services, fostering, adoption, Policing, courts, benefits, unemployment costs,...it will pay for itself in a generation, but needs the initial investment and commitment.
Interesting freakomomics episode on the history and use of swearing - it's actually a really useful and complex language element..
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/swearing-is-more-important-than-you-think/
My language is fruity at times, especially after a few beers. I try to tone it down around kids but sometimes fail, and I don't think it does any harm
Yeah I'd never leave my six year old boy riding around alone without me. Took him on a ride today. Towed him up the hills off road, with his younger brother on the mcride seat on my bike. Don't swear around them either.
My 5 year old has just started school. I eagerly await him swearing for the first time.
I miss those days of my son coming home from school and asking me what does **insert expletive of the day** mean"? It was funny because he knew it was rude but was never sure how the hierarchy worked. Trying to explain was the c bomb was worse than "bloody hell" was a challenge!
+1 ton.
The swearing is becoming more typical these days...clearly a sign that I'm getting old but I think it is terrible. I've spoken up when it happens in the group I'm in (which is rare), but it can be heard everywhere nowadays. Proper grim. I swear like a trooper with my mates and it is just us, so I'm not against swearing, just not needed in front of kids.
Second issue, not typical but also not that uncommon, which is also rubbish.
As a parent and grandparent, the behaviours described aren't typical - yet - but are becoming normalised.
With specific reference to swearing at or in front of children it's concerning that no other adult present ever says...that's not acceptable so stop it.
That makes them as complicit as the chav doing the swearing.
Ton - another +1.
Leaving a five year old is definite rule#1 breaking. I can't imagine leaving mine in the middle of fod.
Swearing, but classless if excessive, but they've likely heard worse.
The swear words of the past (ie our youth) are not the swear words of the present - they're just words.
In the 19th century nobody would have used religious curses in polite company, and they were blanked out in books. The 20th century naughty words were mostly based around bodily parts and functions. Current kids have grown up hearing these, and they barely consider them swear words now, and probably chuckle when they see the C word or F word asterisked or beeped.
Current taboo words are race based or sexuality based. If you stood in the street and shouted C*** (formerly the naughtiest word) you'd barely get any attention - try doing that with the N word.
Anyone who thinks they are above this sort of thing, who believes they are so progressive and daring that they are unaffected, should prove it by casually dropping the N or P words into conversation to demonstrate how liberated they are.
Anyone who thinks they are above this sort of thing, who believes they are so progressive and daring that they are unaffected, should prove it by casually dropping the N or P words into conversation to demonstrate how liberated they are.
You’re so wrong. Rude words for body parts and poo aren’t used to oppress people, there’s a huge difference.
Words only have the power we give them. It's not that long ago that the N word was being used as a sign of affection. It's arguable that the C word and words like b*tch are used to oppress women, or were in the recent past.
There's a lot of potential overreaction here at the dad losing his kid.
I was at whinlatter once with my old kids when I got a call from a mate who was also there with his much younger ones. He'd got a puncture on a downhill section and lost the youngest. I left my kids and set off to search. Went for bloody miles down this hill before I found him
Then took bloody bloody ages to tow him back up. If I hadn't been in the area then he'd have been in a right mess. But TBF to the dad he was cycling along with two kids in front of him one second and the next he was there with a two inch gash in his tyre and only one kid.
Fair enough, not great skills but I'd hesitate to use some of the language people here are using.
And his reaction on being reunited with his kid an hour later was extremely similar to the OP. Looked a bit silly trying to save face, but I wouldnt rip him to shreds like some of y'all are.
Let he who is without sin remove the plank in his own eye etc 😋😝
and probably chuckle when they see the C word or F word asterisked or beeped.
Flip off you flipping mother flipper.
I'm sorry, I can't help myself. STW has warped my fragile little mind.
I overheard a guy talking to his kid, I’d guess 8-9 years old (who was asking for some Lego in the supermarket) saying “I’ve already told you, you stupid f***ing tw*t you can’t fing have it, you haven’t got enough fing money have you, you d**khead”
More kids need this type of down to earth financial education. Many appear to think all the shits for free!
I think of all the couples who spend years and years trying IVF that would make tremendous parents yet some seem to be baby making machines who don’t deserve the gift and privilege 😔😔
My cousins come from a line of the family* that can get pregnant at the drop of a hat. Sadly it's also the side that is ****less and lives off the benefits system. One of them, we'll call her cousin R, has had 4 kids by 3 different dads (one set of twins and that dad has also had a kid with cousin R's sister!) and all were from one night stands. The first was an accident, in so much as she wasn't planning to get pregnant, but the others have all been calculated to keep the benefit money coming in. It doesn't help that she's a terrible human being for multiple reasons but suffice to say she's on the Social Services Watch List and has come very, very close to losing all her kids on multiple occasions. Things like having the house (council and paid for by the state, obviously) in a tip, completely neglecting the kid's development, failing to feed them correctly, all went to school hardly able to talk and weren't potty trained, farming them off to whoever she can do she can go out on the piss and failing to clothe them properly. She's currently planning to have another with some unsuspecting victim for some reason, not for the money thanks to the new limits but that thought probably hasn't crossed her mind.
The contrast to friends who have failed to have much wanted kids and those who have gone through the pain of IVF is very stark and still shocks me even now despite being desensitized to it a bit after 8 years of exposure to cousin R's behaviour.
* hail from Ringland in Newport originally. The story behind what they've collectively been up to the last 20 years would shock pretty much everyone and would be too extreme even for Jerry Springer or Jeremy Kyle.
I vividly remember not swearing until I was in primary 2 ( aged 6).
I have only ever heard my dad swear when he belted his thumb with a hammer, he subsequently lost his nail.
The most sweary job I've had was in the staff room at school
I've got a bit of time for the lego dad - it's a bloody nightmare taking kids round a supermarket when the bastards have places toys and brightly packaged junkfood at strategic points all round the place. I can only imagine how stressful it'd be if you couldn't even afford the basics.
Sainsbury's used to be the worst for this, most of the other shops confined it to one or two aisles but there they'd have parent traps all round the shop. You'd think you were home and clear by the bread and milk but then there'd be a rack of novelty cartoon ice cube trays or some such shite.
Asda can **** off too - they stack piles of toys, sweets and cakes in the entrance.
Today’s parents, tell me this isn’t typical.
Elevated to a new level locally by offering the child choice..."Do you want a f****** smack?"
The other day me and the kids had to take shelter from heavy rain in a local park shelter. Even though I'm fairly relaxed about swearing I've never dropped a C-bomb knowingly around them. All of a sudden my 7 year old son asks 'daddy what is c**t?'. It was graffitied all over the walls if the shelter and I spent a few minutes thinking of an explanation but basically said 'its the worst of all swear words and it's best we don't say it around other people'.
As a priest once said to us in class "Swearing,it's just a lack of F***ing vocabulary"
😆 🤣
Dad to two 14 yr old girls. We never swear* around them and I have never heard either swear. I’d be surprised if I ever do and would probably be disappointed if I did.
* I will say ‘bloody bell’, but they say that in Harry Potter so, as far as I am concerned, it’s bloody okay to say it.
There’s definitely a parenting crisis in this country..
Always has been, always will be.
As far as swearing goes, language and how it's used evolves. My gran thought that "damn" was a serious curse word, she washed out my cousin's mouth with soap when she heard him swearing. A lot of words that used to considered serious swear words are now considered pretty mild, but a lot of racist expressions that used to be considered normal are now considered extremely offensive, which is good.
That makes them as complicit as the chav doing the swearing.
Tell us some stories about when you stepped in to correct a stranger’s approach to their kids, and let us know how it turned out.
Tell us some stories about when you stepped in to correct a stranger’s approach to their kids, and let us know how it turned out.
Boarding the Stena NI ferry this week saw two of the Stena staff firmly ask two fathers to stop effing and jeffing in front of everyone, and then one of the Stena staff did lay into them about their kids hearing it and what a poor attitude to have around kids.
There was much apologising, red faces and a hundred other ferry passengers both staring down the fathers and thanking the Stena staff.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/swearing-is-more-important-than-you-think/
f*****g interesting article
@jondoh lol! Get real. My kids or their friends never swear in my earshot either! In fact I rarely swear in front of my parents even now and I’m 53. As dad to 2 teenage daughters a few years older than yours I think you might be in for a shock.
Winston beat me to it. Laudable aims, johndoh, bookmark the thread for 3 or 4 years time and I suspect you'll have been beaten into submission 😉 My kids went from butter-wouldn't-melt to vocab of navvies - all I can do is ask them to keep a lid on it when inappropriate.
I don’t swear at my kids or in front of my kids and I find those that do abhorrent. Both of mine have heard me use the F word once in a DIY incident and once in general speech during a few evening beers when speaking with Mrs K and I didn’t known Jnr snuck down to enter the room behind me.
But as they get older it’s naive to think they don’t hear it at school or in movies. As I say to mine, just because you hear it doesn’t mean you should say it.
When I got hit in the eye with a nerf bullet my son and his little friend learnt a whole new vocabulary.
@jondoh lol! Get real. My kids or their friends never swear in my earshot either! In fact I rarely swear in front of my parents even now and I’m 53. As dad to 2 teenage daughters a few years older than yours I think you might be in for a shock.
you misunderstand me - I meant that they don’t swear around us. I don’t doubt they will swear around their peers (well, one of them may not actually).
I swear in front of my kids all the time. My kids don't swear around me (and I've never told them not to, that would be a bit hypocritical). I guess they think it's just something their stupid Dad does when he's annoyed.
I do, however, jump down their throats* if they repeat something discriminatory which they've heard one of their friends at school saying but that's a fairly rare occurrence.
*Well, initial big reaction followed by a calm chat about why it was wrong to say that and narrow minded attitudes of some people in society.
There are worse things than swearing.
There are worse things than swearing
there are, yes, but it doesn’t make it okay to normalise it.
Yeah I swear like a sailor (because, well...) but my daughter doesn't. Around me. I'm sure she's said her and her friends have "tried it out" but didn't really get on with it so that's that. She's in P6 and has seemingly never even seen a fight, by the time I was in P4 or 5 I'm pretty sure I had a rich vocabulary, fights were commonplace and hedge porn was well acquainted. I'd say she's doing alright.
Most of my swearing was stress it turns out, it's easy to be judgemental when you have no perspective. Some people are just horrible though, I can't think the last time I swore prejoritavely at someone, the context is important.
That makes them as complicit as the chav doing the swearing.
Tell us some stories about when you stepped in to correct a stranger’s approach to their kids, and let us know how it turned out.
Kelvin - you would know, if you read my post properly, I was referring to others in the same group as the individual(s) doing the swearing so a failed attempt at misrepresentation on your part.
As you asked about getting involved to ask an individual or group to stop swearing - yes, I have in pubs and similar and generally it's been successful.
Staff are usually supportive if they're asked to have a word
I take it you're content to just sit there and pretend to not hear the swearing.
I don't see the need for swearing at all. At least not in normal conversation.
Just... why? It is by definition rude, crude and offensive, so what's the need for it?
Everyone does it, it's normal... so what? Make an effort to be otherwise.
I try to teach my kids this, if their friends swear, well, their friends might also smoke or bully, hopefully mine can hold to some values. We say it's good to pick up litter, "be nice, say hi" etc, why not behave nicer in everyday language? It's not much of an ask. Littering is quite a good analogy actually.
On the subject of great parenting... the other day in the post office a young boy (4ish?) was sitting in a pushchair crying away. The dad (huge bodybuilder type) leaned down grabbed the bars either side of the boy and shouted into his face through gritted teeth "STOP CRYING LIKE A F****** GIRL". It really helped 🙄
Yes I understand frustration. I have young kids myself. That's absolutely no excuse for taking it out on them in a harmful way (and yes I'm occasionally guilty too 😞)
there are, yes, but it doesn’t make it okay to normalise it.
Why not?
Studies have shown there is nothing wrong with swearing and it can have benefits when it comes to stressful and painful situations. Also, it's been found people who swear tend to be more intelligent.
But really, what harm is it causing?
If it's that people might get offended then that sounds more like a 'them' problem than a 'me' problem.
But like I said, my kids don't seem to be swearing despite me not trying to stop them so perhaps my methods are superior to people who try to get their kids to stop.
Why not?
Because it’s not nice, not necessary and not particularly clever. If you are unable to curb language around your family then fine - you crack on - I just don’t see the need.
Context is everything and a few examples above are more worrying for their agression (snarling at kids) than they are about the swearing per se.
Words are just words. It's the context you need to worry about (and teach kids about).
Because it’s not nice, not necessary and not particularly clever
Why is it not nice?
I'll give you necessary but then there are a lot of things in our lives that aren't necessary. Please and thank you serves no real purpose but I'm sure you use both.
It's not particularly clever, although I did read a study that said people who swore also showed higher levels of intelligence.
But yeah, why is it not nice?
“FOOOOOOKINNNNNNNNN!” is just British lower class punctuation. It’s like a verbal holding pattern which gives their brain time to produce the next one syllable word in the sentence.
I have a mate who falls into this camp. When sober it will happen two or three times in a sentence but when drunk it happens between the syllables of every other word. Makes it quite difficult to follow what he is trying to say to be fair.
On the subject of great parenting… the other day in the post office a young boy (4ish?) was sitting in a pushchair crying away. The dad (huge bodybuilder type) leaned down grabbed the bars either side of the boy and shouted into his face through gritted teeth “STOP CRYING LIKE A F****** GIRL”.
For me, the abhorrent bits in that sentence are denigrating half the human race and the shouting. The swearing is unpleasant but not really the problem here.
Effective swearing is a skill, and is one of life's pleasures. It also aids good communication when used sparingly. Swear words are extreme intensifiers, for which there are very few alternatives without becoming unnecessarily verbose.
This is a hill that I will f*cking die on.
However, routinely swearing at young children is wrong.
For me, the abhorrent bits in that sentence are denigrating half the human race and the shouting. The swearing is unpleasant but not really the problem here.
Granted. It wasn't really connected to the first bit of my post.
On the subject of great parenting… the other day in the post office a young boy (4ish?) was sitting in a pushchair crying away. The dad (huge bodybuilder type) leaned down grabbed the bars either side of the boy and shouted into his face through gritted teeth “STOP CRYING LIKE A F****** GIRL”. It really helped 🙄
If that sort of verbal abuse is happening in public, it's almost a given that worse is happening at home.
Am I the only one who has to tell off his parents for swearing in front of the kids, ie their grandchildren?
edit: OP, what you described is grim. Not typical but too common.
However, routinely swearing at young children is wrong.
I wanted to edit that. Routinely swearing at young children anyone is wrong.
Im a cub leader (& parent)
most of the parents i deal seem really good parents, we have a few who treat their kids like crap, it puts a different perspective on the kids bad behaviour
Context is everything and a few examples above are more worrying for their agression (snarling at kids) than they are about the swearing per se.
Indeed.
I wanted to edit that. Routinely swearing at young children anyone is wrong.
Swearing at or swearing in the presence of? For clarity...
Swearing at.
It's why people should have to have a licence to breed.
Mary Stopes was onto something after all ...
It isn’t typical, but does happen.
I think it happens enough that the pub story could be typical in some parts of modern British society. Some people on here lead very sheltered lives. But there is a difference between "swearing regularly in conversation" and swearing at someone - the words themselves are not important its all about context. So e.g.
- (to your friend/partner) this mash potato is f*ck*n sh*t,
- (to the waitress/manager) this mash potato is f*ck*n sh*t
- (to your child) your mash potato looks f*ck*n sh*t
- (to your child) eat the mash potato you f*ck*n wee sh*t
The tone really matters - go to Glasgow where the word c*nt can mean anything from a friendly "mate" to you better start running cos I'm about bottle you. Body language matters to, you can make any of the above sentences worse be suddenly standing up and shouting it.
I would avoid swearing if there were kids at my table, but there's an interesting question, if I've gone to the pub with my mates and someone else has brought their kids to the table next to me - how much do I need to moderate my behaviour. I think that depends on the pub, but there's certainly pubs round here that serve food and let kids in where especially later in the day, in my view if the parents don't want their kids to hear colourful language they probably shouldn't have taken them in that pub.
I don't think the cycling story is at all typical, but I think that is probably a shame. Far too few children are ever allowed out of their parents' sight. Phone number in the pocket seems like it wasn't totally un-thought-through either. Not enough kids get lost in the woods; ideally they'd have adventures without the quivering bottom lip bit, however I'm sure that's an essential part of finding your comfort zone. BUT what happens when we (as adults) get a "fright" is we react - not always in ways we would be proud of or that might be something you'd hope to do. Shouting at the kids you were worried had fallen off a cliff but are delighted to see are alive is actually a fairly typical response. I think if you perceive you've done something wrong (like let them go too far) you are even more likely to react this way - your anger isn't at the kid, its at yourself but it just comes out wrong. I'm not sure if his "didn't want to go up the hill" was an angry or jokey way - I'm likely to make a joke of stuff if I thought the other adults were overly concerned. Again you can say the same sentence, and direct it at different people with very different meanings
My last workplace c is a term of endearment and to signify someone is not a good person, usually prefixed with 'turbo' and/or 'shit'.
Swearing is used to convey the severity of a situation and to motivate people to carry out orders/tasks much fing quicker.
Oh how I miss those days.