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Ref the proposal to reduce the stakes for fixed-odds betting terminals.
[i]Malcolm George, of the Association of British Bookmakers, said the government shared its wish to identify problem gamblers and get them help.
But restricting terminals in betting shops would redirect problem gamblers to other avenues where there were less controls on the amount of gambling, he said.
"Just as alcohol policy in this country is not solely determined by alcoholics" he added, there needs to be an environment for the "vast majority who gamble responsibly"[/i]
Great thanks. We'd just better carry on then cos if I was a 'responsible gambler' I'd really struggle to work out where to have a punt. The tragic thing is they will probably be reduced from £100 a pop to £50 so it'll take about 20 minutes to screw yourself over rather than 10. Then of course there's the inevitable loss of jobs associated with the closure of some bookies. Again tragic given the net contribution they make to communities.
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All online betting should be banned IMO, HTHs.
Ban phones I say.
the net contribution they make to communities
Hahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahha.
Get in the effin' sea.
All online betting should be banned
....except these. These are awesome.
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I was listening to this on the radio on the way to work this morning.
Bet Fred 'warns' that 20% of bookies could close if they reduce the maximum amount to be bet in one hit.
My response would be 'Ok, so how low does the maximum bet have to be to reduce the amount of bookies by at least 50%? Lets go 10% lower than that'.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-11/anglicare-recommends-removing-poker-machines-from-tas-clubs/8795300
some actual stats...
yes getting rid of the damm things would be a good thing
All online betting should be banned IMO, HTHs.
along with late night tv casinos.
The apocalyptic vision of only one or two betting shops in every town centre put forward by the betting firms is not quite as terrifying as they think.
The deregulation of the betting industry was one of the worst mistakes of the Labour government.
As a lucrative form of tax generation though, it can't be faulted.
Does anyone ever walk in a bookies and think "This place is chock full of winners. I want a bit of this action too, show me to the magic cash machines!"?
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/betting-companies-ladbrokes-corals-fixed-odds-betting-terminals-philip-davies-top-list-of-donations-a7925461.html ]will they bite the hand though ?[/url]
Get in the effin' sea.
+1
And from now on until Bettings demise ban all adverts too... all of them not just TV.
The apocalyptic vision of only one or two betting shops in every town centre put forward by the betting firms is not quite as terrifying as they think.
It is to them.
Personally I don't have a problem with bookmakers. If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it's their problem.
What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?
It was quite an eye opener watching both bt & sky football, it's wall to wall gambling ads, compared to say a us feed (all suv's and burgers)
****ing parasites the lot of them.
Personally I don't have a problem with bookmakers. If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it's their problem.What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?
Heavy restrictions, for a lot of addicts it is a huge problem. The net benefits of directing the lost money back into the economy is show above. Making it easy for addicts to be addicted is a bad idea.
Personally I don't have a problem with bookmakers. If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it's their problem.
Unfortunately when these people run out of ready cash it becomes every else's problem as well.
There's a world of difference between betting on the Grand National and FOBTs anyway.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/31/big-gamble-dangerous-british-betting-shops ]I read this article on The Guardian[/url] a while ago that really shows the effect these places are having.
Get in the effin' sea.
I might've missed the sarcasm smiley off my original comment. Gonna have to steady the ship with a mememememe instead 🙂 For the avoidance of doubt I DNGAS if all the bookies closed so long as Perchy says they keep the 2p sliders (10p ones = FOBTs)
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[quote=gobuchul ]What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?
No - but the point is over there somewhere. The complaint appears to be that the proposed measures will result in the closure of bookies. I tend to agree with several others on here - the number of bookies closing down is a good measure of the success of any proposal to curb the harm done by gambling.
I don't understand the "loss of jobs" argument either. Won't people just spend their money on something else and create jobs there instead? The money people save by not gambling doesn't just vanish.
Personally I don't have a problem with bookmakers. If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it's their problem.
http://news.sky.com/story/fixed-odds-betting-addict-in-his-own-words-i-just-self-destruct-11106617
Some people are more vulnerable to gambling addiction than others. As a society we do have a responsibility (to an extent) to protect people from self-inflicted harms, and their own weakness.
No-one is talking about banning them altogether, just perhaps stopping you being able to lose five grand in an hour.
If the industry's business model collapses because people can't do this, then that's fine with me.
I've absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for bookmakers or gamblers ..
What I would say is that the amount of advertising given over to gambling is unbelievable and should be culled ..
Saying " When the fun stops ..stop"...makes everything ok does it ?
What a joke !
Just get the Ray Winstone adverts off the telly. That'll do me for a start.
from the link above in a small population
Report author John Mangan said Tasmanians lose on average $113 million a year on poker machines in the state's pubs and clubs.The report estimated there are 2,000 problem gamblers, 6,000 moderate risk gamblers and 15,000 low risk-gamblers in the state.
Professor Mangan's economic modelling assumed that people would be less likely to spend gamble money on poker machines at casinos, than at their local pub or club.
"You have a lot of impulse gambling due to proximity and if you shift it to casinos, that will drop off," he said.
Prof Mangan's modelling found that if 100 per cent of gambling losses from hotels and clubs was diverted it would create 670 full time jobs, and add $91 million annually to Tasmania's gross output and add $45 million in wages, profits and dividends.
It's a huge problem if you let it get that way.
Personally I don't have a problem with bookmakers.
Me neither but we are not the ones who need protection. Its noat about helping non problem gamblers is it
That is definitely how gambling addiction is described in academic circles .Have you considered having some empathy and caring about their position/plight? Gambling addiction it will also have knock on affects for society and perhaps we ought to legislate those who peddle the wares to the addicts and ask them to behave responsibly - expecting an addict to behave responsibly is unrealistic.If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it's their problem.
try to seek a balance between them being open and protecting the most vulnerable - like this basically.What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?
No one thinks this will end gambling [ hence why it will remain legal] the real question is will it reduce the harm
I'm not a huge Fan of Victoria Coren, or indeed the Guardian, but this really sums up the damage these machine do, and how and why after a 30 year decline, there is suddenly 5 betting shops in every small town high street.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/19/a-stupid-gamble-on-evil-machines ]Evil Machines[/url]
Apologies, scuttler, I misread the intent of your last sentence and took your post as a shill. 🙂
the government will introduce some kind of voluntary self regulation. 🙄
There was a program on [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09byh8d ]Radio 4[/url] yesterday about how tricks are used to pull our strings. One example from Dolby was visual tricks to make fire on screen make you feel hot. A more relevant example was gambling machines in casinos where everything from the pattern of payouts to the shape of the carpet leading you to the machine was designed to maximize "time on device".
Gambling's a big business using all the tricks it can to make as much money as possible. Instant betting needs reducing in stake size dramatically as part of a move to banning it.
If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it's their problem.
Apart from the arguments above, which quite rightly point out that it can become problematic for the unfortunate minority, is gambling any more stupid than spending £100 on a saddle (frinstance)? For most, it's a sociable, enjoyable pastime and like most pastimes, it involves parting with a bit of cash.
For the record, I don't gamble 🙂
Was just about to post what @murray posted. It's amazing the work they do to keep you hooked. It's like imagining that you aren't affected by advertising
[quote=martinhutch ]If the industry's business model collapses because people can't do this, then that's fine with me.
As I just wrote, the level of the collapse of the business model is a good measure of the success of any such measure - anything which doesn't result in some pain (yes, and job losses) to the gambling industry isn't doing any good.
In my early career, when work was harder to come by, I did some illustration work for one of the gaming companies. I didn't last long. Nobody with a shred of humanity in them ever does in that industry.
I can confirm they are the very worst human beings on the planet. You'd feel the need to disinfect yourself after you had meetings with them. They were utterly toxic people, completely devoid of any redeeming features as human beings whatsoever. Imagine Iain Duncan Smith but with a lot less empathy and compassion, and you're halfway there
They had one goal in life, and one only..... to devise ever more fiendish ways to separate people from every last penny of their money in the fastest way possible. And believe me, these were very clever people. And totally dedicated to their goal
It makes me laugh when they talk about 'self-regulation'. Having met these people, it is literally like leaving Dracula in charge of the blood bank
On the Today prog this morning the bookies spokesman warned that if the fixed odds money-spinners went, and half the bookies had to close, then their place would not be taken by artisan bakers but with shabby amusement arcades! So, you have been warned. Best keep those aspirational bookies in the High Street and on the estates lest things start to look a bit run down.
The current limit is £100 every 20 seconds. The red tide under Comrade Corbyn has promised to reduce it to £2 every 20 seconds. J. K. Rowling could play the machines full time and still end up in credit.
, it is literally like leaving Dracula in charge of the blood bank
Given his unique drive and enthusiasm I can't see why he wouldn't be an excellent candidate for the job.
What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?
Nah, if there's an easy lesson to learn from history it's that prohibition doesn't work, just makes a lot of money for people who are willing to break the law and they're far more damaging to people than even FOBTs.
The reason why these machines are so dangerous is that It's almost a exact science that the quicker you see the result of a bet, the more addictive it is - that's why people get into all sorts of trouble with scratch cards, but rarely with the lottery - take the pace out of it and it's far less addictive.
If I were in power:
1) I'd ban advertising, gambling is addictive and causes lots of pain for those who get addicted, ring any bells? Anyway the Betting Industry is allowed far to much leeway with their advertising "cheeky little flutter" sounds a lot better than "spunking the equivalent of the weekly shopping bill on an electronic roulette wheel".
2) I would enforce changes to the shops - people don't like doing something they know they really shouldn't in view of outsiders, there's a reason why most shops don't have windows or at least have massive posters covering 90% of the window. It isolates the 'punter' from the real world and means they're 'amongst friends' who collectively feel they can't be doing anything wrong because they're all doing it.
3) I'd impose a cap on 'instant' bets - fruit machines and scratch cards, cap them at £2 a go, impose time limits too, because you can't trust a bookie not to find a loophole who allow the reels to spin every 5 seconds. Ban betting on sporting events for an hour before it's starts - they're pushing more and more engagement from punters by allowing them to bet whilst events are on-going, it causes a sort of excited panic from punters. Yeah, you'd have to allow certain leeway for punter who are actually at the races etc, but not much.
Ultimately, humans are terrible at assessing risk unless they're actually in physical danger, and I can't see why if you're just betting for a 'flutter' it makes any difference if you bet a quid or a grand?
Yes, it's not a perfect solution, I suspect many betting sites, betting shops and apps would close and some responsible gamblers would be upset, but when I see an explosion in and industry like we've seen in Gambling in the last 10 years, a decade of huge financial turmoil and pain for a lot of people, I see exploitation.
[quote=Nico ]The current limit is £100 every 20 seconds. The red tide under Comrade Corbyn has promised to reduce it to £2 every 20 seconds.
I can't see any obvious downside to making it even lower than that - well apart from to the gambling industry, and we've already established my level of sympathy for them. Ultimately it's just regulating the speed at which people can give their money to the bookies.
is gambling any more stupid than spending £100 on a saddle (frinstance)?
Yes.
Gambling isn't inherently better or worse than anything else.
Everythings relative though, innit?
It's like asking if you're a drinker? If you say yes, does that mean that you like a couple of pints after work? Or that you spend all your days drinking white lightning in a park, pissing yourself, and shouting at buses
I like to bet on the footy. So do a lot of my mates. I don't think any of us have ever set foot in a bookies in our lives. We all do it through phone apps. So there you go... the TV advertising certainly works. Nobody has a problem with it. A couple of quid here and there on the outcome of games, first goalscorer etc etc... that you're in with a fair enough chance of winning.
Thats the 'couple of pints after work' option
At the other end of the spectrum is the 'drinking white lightning in a park, pissing yourself, and shouting at buses' that these FOBT's represent. It's absolutely terrifying how fast you can lose totally crazy sums of money 😯
It should be properly regulated
i have a number of friends who mainly gamble on apps. They have gone from purely a few quid on footy matches to now gambling on everything.
It's got to a stage where i'm pretty sick of seeing them watching any football match is all based around gambling.
Also, they bet on motorcycle speedway. They have no interest in speedway, but they watch it, so they can gamble on it. All of these are intelligent guys who earn good money.
It's an addiction which is unpleasant for themselves and all around them
It's an addiction which is unpleasant for themselves and all around them
How can that be? The adverts show groups of well dressed guys having a great time and the gambling brings out their personalities and they are proud to be part of the keeeerazy and exciting gambling scene.
Ray Winstone is coming round to ours to watch the United Game later, to make sure we gaaaaaaaaaamble reshponshibly
You actually have to take your hat off to the gambling companies for completely changing the narrative. Its been a benchmark in advertising. They've shifted the image from old blokes in grotty, windowless bookies putting their last couple of quid on the 3.15 at Kempton Park before nipping out for a roll-up, to the present association with premiership football via smatphone apps.
They go on about job losses if these terminals are limited, but surely the days of the high street bookie are coming to an end anyway, with everyone doing everything via apps?
This is a simnple case of corruption in politics. Our politics is so corrupt at Westminster. Large numbers of influential politicians are in the pay of betting companies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41027964
Ironically when scrolling through this thread, 2 out of 3 ads are for betting companies.
There's far too much advertising for betting sites online in my opinion.
I mean, I can't even open a free porn website without it autogenerating another browser window with Bet Fred or something in it!!
It's really distracting in my moment of need!
[quote=binners ]They go on about job losses if these terminals are limited
Betting companies are true defenders of jobs: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/31/big-gamble-dangerous-british-betting-shops
Ironically when scrolling through this thread, 2 out of 3 ads are for betting companies.
I just got adverts for beds and sofas, shows where my interests lie.
well even they realise its not wise to go we dont give a shit about penniless addicts we want to protect our profits so they will attempt to spin it as something more noble than naked greed whatever the cost to their customers
The House ALWAYS wins.
All online betting should be banned IMO, HTHs.
@bikebouy You should take that up with the owner running the “Inga from Sweden” programme. He “only” did the payments system and is now worth many many millions. Aside from the sailing he is Swedish touring car champion. Lives in Verbier. Nice.
tldr - along with most people I know at least 2 people who've lost their job and/ or their house because of gambling. It's one of the last vestiges of my Methodist upbringing that I'm pretty strong on. I find the huge numbers of adverts for all gambling quite disturbing and surprising.
The under-reported part of all this is how easy it is to launder money through them. Flush with cash from drug dealing or some other nefarious activity? Doesn't take much time or effort to gamble it via a FOBT, betting sensibly to minimise losses to 5-10%. Walk out either with it against your account (most will put it in an online gaming account that you can just withdraw from later), or as notes with a nice receipt to show the police if you get stopped - you just had a good afternoon at the bookies, officer.
There's so many high street bookmakers now that they can rotate between loads of them to avoid looking too suspicious. Just someone who pops in occasionally, plays for an hour and leaves again. If they're not causing trouble the bookmakers' staff won't care.
Nationalise it.
All the profits become tax revenue.
Then heavy gamblers become community heroes - "He lost everything, but it paid for the Old Folks Home" 🙂
I bet that will never happen. Oh...
I'm for banning them, they're designed to fleece vulnerable people. They'll be no loss to society and are already banned in other countries.
I used to work for Ladbrokes in one of their greyhound track. That was 15 years ago and they used to say that if allowed they would quite happily shut the track and fit the whole stadium with machines.
I thought the curtains on bookies were mandated to stop young people looking in and wanting to join in? (with all the other ‘winners’
Don't have a problem with gambling, if people are daft enough to do that batter in. I don't know why you need 6 or 7 of them on a small main road though, should limit them to 2 per street or something like that. minimum distance between bookies or something, they are a blight on the landscape.
seosamh77 - Member - Block User - Quote
Don't have a problem with gambling, if people are daft enough to do that batter in. I don't know why you need 6 or 7 of them on a small main road though, should limit them to 2 per street or something like that. minimum distance between bookies or something, they are a blight on the landscape.
This is covered in the (excellent) article p-jay linked on the first page. Well worth a read.
It's a bit like smoking. They'll tax it to the hilt in a lukewarm effort to stop it, but they want your money more.
That machine that let's you gamble up to £100 every 20 seconds 😮 that is atrocious.
cchris2lou - Member
I used to work for Ladbrokes...
I've always admired the sheer chutzpah of their name.
It would like your local pub calling itself Cirrhosis, or your corner dug dealer calling himself Overdose.
Or more prosaically, Macdonalds calling itself Fatties. 🙂
There is a takeaway near me called fatsos..
Ban phones I say.
Do tell...