You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
.. is changing the flywheel.
DSG transmissions are pretty heavy apparently. I could drop it with a jack but I'm going to try using a beam above the engine bay and a pulley winch to lower and raise it.
I may die, so if I do it'll all be your fault. And you probably won't want my bikes.
Do I still need to post twice to get the thread to appear?
Dibs on the Mariachi.
I'd raise it with the crane but put a stand under it before getting under the car. But then my crane creeps down badly.
Whats vehicle? I did a mates clutch and flywheel on his Golf R recently on my back. Not something il be doing again in a hurry... 😂 Good luck @molgrips
I did a mates clutch
I had a crack at mine yesterday. Got the car up on stands, sprayed some plusgas around. Ummed and ahh'd a bit, before packing it all away 🙂
Building up the courage. A first pass, reconnaissance etc.
Maybe daft question but why do you need to change the flywheel? I googled and saw there was a 47 minute YT video about it so it must be pretty horrendous. Good luck 😀
I'm crawling around in the back of a Transit Connect drilling and chiselling spot welds to reveal the secret stash box. My spine is trying to escape.
Maybe daft question but why do you need to change the flywheel?
Not daft, very pertinent. After a load of reading I discovered the following information.
Some flywheels disintegrate on failure, but apparently the VW ones tend to just get slacker and rattle more until someone changes them. It's had a rattle when cold starting as long as I can remember, but recently it started getting worse. And then a few instances of excess vibration in low gears made me think it was time for a change. If you remove the starter you can get your finger in the hole and check to see how much play there is in the flywheel. The wear limit is 10mm, mine is about 20mm which according to the internet seems to be as bad as it gets. No movement at all in the new one on the bench.
Hopefully it'll tighten up the drive, smooth the gear changes and the general driving. And not explode.
The new lease EV is arriving in a couple of weeks and hopefully the Passat won't feel too much like a pile of junk by comparison because we'll still need it for longer trips and work.
Anyway, since I've already had the driveshafts out multiple times that was easy enough and so far things are going well if at a relaxed pace. I was worried about how to lower the box and get it out, so I went to my neighbour and asked him if he'd help and he lent me a motorbike jack/stand/trolley thing which looks perfect. About to start the big bit now.
I don't do anything heavy on cars now (busted spine 5 years ago). I've got a spanner monkey in a 20 year old son. I've 'assisted' him fitting coil overs to his Fabia - which wasn't too bad as it's 5 years old and stuff isn't rusted on.
I have enough trouble getting off the floor if I've been under the car to take out the oil drain plug. I just get stuck if I'm in one position too long.
I’m crawling around in the back of a Transit Connect drilling and chiselling spot welds to reveal the secret stash box. My spine is trying to escape.
Er - what's this chat? I've got a Connect, and know nothing of any secrets.
Er – what’s this chat? I’ve got a Connect, and know nothing of any secrets.
The vans which had rear seats obviously needed a foot well for passengers in the back. On the panel van it's boxed in and takes up quite a bit of space. I'll either be fitting a rear seat if I can find the parts locally or I'll be using it as under floor storage if I just ply line it.
I'm all done now it was actually much easier than I thought it would be. Back is killing though!
The vans which had rear seats obviously needed a foot well for passengers in the back. On the panel van it’s boxed in and takes up quite a bit of space. I’ll either be fitting a rear seat if I can find the parts locally or I’ll be using it as under floor storage if I just ply line it.
On the Astra vans it was open to the drivers cabin and a great place to store work manuals or fit 6x9 speakers.
The vans which had rear seats obviously needed a foot well for passengers in the back.
Ah right. Yes, I've thought that a hatch to access that would be useful. Or battery storage in an electric version, which Ford are well behind the curve on.
The forum ate yesterday's update. Got everything freed up and sitting on the jack but could not get the damn thing out for the life of me. I'd given up and decided to drop the subframe in the morning, however I found a YTV in which the guy had used the scissor jack to push the engine forward. This worked - the box is now down but I couldn't get it under the bumper so I've left it out of the way.
I was all set to refit then I discovered that the pilot bearing in the crankshaft had rusted (there's rust on the flywheel, is this normal after 15 years?) and disintegrated. So now I have to get that out. Tips online seem to involve packing something behind it and finding a perfectly sized drift to whack in so that hydraulic pressure forces it out.
Pilot bearing is stuck. Bus tomorrow.
bread 😂
Tried thick red rubber grease, machined a bit to fit perfectly in and I mean perfectly. It was airtight. I smacked the crap out of it, no joy. Then I tried bread and it mashed that and forced it past the bolt and made an absolute mess like a.jam sandwich that's been chewed up and spat out. No joy.
Ordered a blind bearing puller and we're all taking the bus tomorrow. On the plus side, found out that the guy 4 doors up is a mexhanic and he is off work tomorrow so offered to help get it back in.
I tapped a thread in my Landrover one and screwed a bolt in. I do have access to large industrial sized hardware though that DIYers wouldn't.
That is genius with the bread but doesn't seem like it'd work if the bearing's corroded at all, they can get pretty well fixed in.
I always reckon "the worst that can happen is that you have to get a pro to sort it" but I think possibly that's now "the worst that can happen is you have to take it to a pro and you've filled it with bread, like a crazy person"
Well, it's totally buggered. The most buggered the car has ever been with me working on it. I really am not sure how to fix it either.
The puller didn't work, firstly it was a shit tool, and secondly either as a result of the shit puller or me bashing the bolt in, the inner flange is gone, and it's now flush and butted up against the stop in the hole. The outer flange has just bent back. So basically it's now a sleeve lining the hole with nowhere to get any purchase. I started trying to fold it in with a chisel, but whilst parts of it came out the rest is rock solid.
Only thing I can think of now is getting a Dremel grinding bit and trying to grind it thin enough in places to fold in. Of course this is going to mark the crankshaft a bit but I see no other option.
Dremal and get a pic or a small chisel in. Shit but it's the only way.
Gas axe is how I'd remove it. Certain RWD transits were bad for the pilot bearing collapsing, and the quickest method to remove the remains was to burn them out.
However in the absence of a gas axe, dremel and grinding it out is going to the only way. It'll be hardened, so you really to grind it thin enough to crack it. Putting a couple small gouges in the crankshaft where it sits isn't going to affect anything.
Bad news - hate stuff like this - don’t forget to wear glasses!
I couldn't use that much heat even if I had it. I'd surely melt the crankshaft seals.
Dremel worked quite well in the end. Nicked a little bit out of one side of the crankshaft, so I made sure I nicked the other side to keep it in balance :)Bearing outer shell wasn't hardened in the way that normal cartridge bearings are, it was fairly pliable in the end when I knocked it in.
Couldn't take my daughter to school today which annoyed the crap out of me, but a car has been hired for the next 5 days so I have some time.
Question is now - to help me get it back in do I buy a support beam for £90 or just make one from timber?
Another question - Haynes says 'high temperature grease' for the new bearing, and there is white grease pre-installed on it which looks like lithium grease. Can I use spray lithium grease to top it up if I need to? It says max 145c on the can.
I couldn’t use that much heat even if I had it. I’d surely melt the crankshaft seals.
Small burning jet aimed at the bearing shell doesn't put enough heat in to the crank shaft to be off any concern, provided you know what you're doing.
If you get enough heat in to the crankshaft to melt the seal, then the seal melting would be the least of your worries.
The grease already in the bearing will be fine. Too much grease is far worse than not enough, especially if some of it was to end up on the clutch plate.
Just leave what's on it.
Any excess will just hold clutch dust and wear faster.
Depends on how tight it is and how strong your feeling.
By the 4th time you've tried and failed that 90quid will seem like a bargain. Last time I did a box on my back my arms where like jelly from lifting it in.
You could try timber with 2 Jack's to allow some movement.
Me I'd try without just see how close I can get it if I'm miles off I'd be buying it.
And last top tip if it's close but not slotting in. Have a brew and come back to it. Nowt worse than losing your shit whilst bench pressing a gearbox and getting ep90 in your eye
Too much grease is far worse than not enough, especially if some of it was to end up on the clutch plate.
It's a wet clutch so the plates are all inside the box.
There's no chance of me doing the box from underneath - when I was at the gym I was pressing 65kg for 5x5 but the box weighs 95kg 🙂 Plan is to put the gearbox on the motorbike trolley, put it in place then jack it up to nearly the right height, then use a screw hook and nut through a piece of timber resting on blocks (all screwed together and secure!) to fine tune the height. What I have planned should give me fine control over the vertical, lateral and front-to-back position so it should slot right in.
Good luck.
Should is a great word😂
Had nowt to do with DSG stuff. Left the car game n switched to trucks
Bigger but far easier
Granted, a much lighter 5 speed manual (half the weight) I made a crucifix, which I bolted to a Halfords trolley jack by removing the cup bit and bolting through the hole underneath. I used theaded bar and nuts to fine tune the angle of the gear box.
The puller didn’t work, firstly it was a shit tool, and s
Did you use a slide hammer? I've never seen a bearing resist one for long. Sometimes it can take a while though. More taps rather than harder seems the trick. I always wondered if filling the cavity with water or oil and then a rubber bung and smack that in, or pump it up with a pump would work, the advantage being the oil or water will seep around the bearing and lubricate.
Too afraid to try it though.
Yes, used a slide hammer. The problem was that the bearing itself was too soft so the lip I was trying to pull against deformed. It wasn't a normal sealed cartridge job like I'm used to from bikes and everything else.
I always wondered if filling the cavity with water or oil and then a rubber bung and smack that in
It's the standard approach if you haven't got a set of pullers, except using grease or even clay or bread.
It wasn’t a normal sealed cartridge job like I’m used to from bikes and everything else.
Kind of amazed. Makes note to self not to buy VAG.
I was thinking oil because once you pull the bung out, the evidence runs out leaving no trace. So when you take it to a garage there are no awkward conversations.
Bollocks. The intermediate plate, the thin alu sheet that sits between engine and gearbox, it needs to go on BEFORE you fit the flywheel. Fortunately I can get new bolts today and refit the flywheel.
But I have a question for the mechanics - the old plate had corrosion on it and was a bit bent up. How important to replace? It would determine the alignment between transmission and gearbox so I'm guessing it's important.
Makes note to self not to buy VAG.
I dunno, the bearing wasn't the problem until I disassembled it. It outlasted the flywheel. It's roller bearings about a cm long, so they are very durable. As much as I've worked on this car I've been impressed with the mechanical design of it, mostly. I will be buying another VAG car for sure.
As much as I’ve worked on this car I’ve been impressed with the mechanical design of it
worked on many others ?
Although not as many as MC or duncancallum .... ive done a fair range of jobs across a majority of brands VAG rates amongst the worst to work on in my books with lots of aluminium to steel interfaces and lots of special bolt heads.
I invariably always end up needing more tools i dont have when i work on VW than when i do the same tasks on other vehicles....
Special bolt heads are a minor annoyance, but what you're really talking about is the 12-point ones. Ceased to become a problem when I bought a set.
By far the worst thing about VAG cars are the interiors, and the way that whenever you need to remove a piece a few of the clips break. Means that over time bits of it are held on with fewer and fewer clips. Toyota are far better in this respect.
Anyway what about my intermediate plate?
That plate probably keeps the shite out.
Box will be located on dowels to hold it in place.
Caveat @trail_rat I've been of the spanners for years but still in the trade till 3 yes ago. And I kept my hand in. Though not on overly modern shite
Early pre 2005vag stuff is a dream.
My 92 scirocco and 95 t4 are a testament to the build quality
My mates mk4 golf and later plastic shite.
That plate probably keeps the shite out.
If you leave it out, it makes bad noises apparently.
I think I will go with re-use since we need a car currently and we'd have to keep hiring until Tues or Weds which is gonna cost a lot.
Straighten it up be fine.
Cant be structural as it would be cast and very unbendy
Fair play for for doing it on the drive like
dunno, the bearing wasn’t the problem until I disassembled it. It outlasted the flywheel. It’s roller bearings about a cm long, so they are very durable.
Fair point. To me though, part of durability in a car is being able to remove and replace parts without it mangling. If I have to do damage to some other part to replace a part which will/or might require replacement is a mark against it. No car is perfect but some are better than others. Cars that you have to lift or drop the engine to change the plugs is a huge failure in design. It's a regular maintenance item ffs.
To me though, part of durability in a car is being able to remove and replace parts without it mangling.
Bear in mind I'm a bodging DIYer without a full suite of tools. The reason it was mangled in the first place is because I tried the bolt method instead of using a proper puller.
Straighten it up be fine.
Cant be structural as it would be cast and very unbendy
Fair play for for doing it on the drive like
Ta 🙂
Fair point. To me though, part of durability in a car is being able to remove and replace parts without it mangling. If I have to do damage to some other part to replace a part which will/or might require replacement is a mark against it. No car is perfect but some are better than others. Cars that you have to lift or drop the engine to change the plugs is a huge failure in design. It’s a regular maintenance item ffs.
My 2004 year Volvo is bloody brilliant to work on, high quality never stuck fasteners, and little things to help spannering years down the line like the small fold back flaps to access timing belt components or the small tabs cut into gaskets so they hold themselves in place when fitting components. And it's built like a tank underneath the panel work but you pay for it at the petrol pump because it's so bloody heavy!
I don't know what new Volvos are like though
I'm so glad I put my van in the garage to get fixed.
I wish I had now. Hopefully this'll be the last time I do this kind of crap.
It's back in. Made myself a hoist out of pulleys, worked pretty well. Combination of trolley jack in the right spot and the hoist and some faff got it in the right spot. I mangled up the intermediate plate even more, hope it's ok.
I have now worked out how to get it in and out easily. It needs to come right to the front of the engine bay, then up to the right height, rearwards, then left. I think this is why Haynes tell you to remove the radiator fan - although they don't tell you why, and they don't tell you to use the scissor jack to pull the engine way forward.
Haynes tell you to remove the radiator fan – although they don’t tell you why, and they don’t tell you to use the scissor jack to pull the engine way forward
Sad to say, Haynes aren't what they used to be. "Use a suitable size Allen key..." first, a waste of space, because they wouldn't tell use to use an unsuitable size, second, they've done the job, why can't they just tell you what size it needs!
Agree with that! The old Haynes manuals I have for my old cars (Mini, Nova, AX, Volvo 240) tells you what size pretty much every tool needs to be, it even shows how to make some of the tools! The one for my Fabia on the other hand is so generic in the descriptions it could be for any car and still apply. The older ones also go into detail on how to rebuild a gearbox where as the modern ones just say 'It's too complicated, take it to a specialist'.
It probably is!
There's plenty of stuff that is easy if you have a VCDS diagnostic tool, but they take the position than noone has one. Having said that, Ross-Tech are quite good with telling you how to do stuff with VCDS and I guess Haynes can't be seen to be endorsing Ross Tech.
I need to get it back on the road today and give it a good test drive as we need to go to my parents tomorrow. I want to cycle over, and I need to be confident the car's not going to crap out on my wife.
Bottom balljoint yesterday. Funny how it never goes as expected...
Removing the problem rivet heads - no problem at all. Getting the rivets out - absolute pig. Getting the ball joint stub out - stuck pig. Then pulling the driveshaft just that fraction too far dumping the gearbox oil on my shoulder on its way to the pit floor - delightful.
So Picasso was also treated to a gearbox oil change - oil cost more than the balljoint.
Bottom balljoint was stuck as an absolute bastard when I had to change it several years ago. Impossible to remove - I had to buy an angle grinder and cut it into pieces. It was just corroded in, cos the lower wishbones are alu.
Dumping gearbox oil is bad - I'm very thankful that my gearbox is sealed and the driveshafts bolt to an external flange.
It's done.
It’s done.
And.........
Seems ok. Not a huge difference in the driving, but I just reset the clutch adaptation in the gearbox so it'll take some time to re-adapt. There's less jerking from 1st to 2nd when in manual mode, which was always noticeable and it's a bit tighter generally. Old flywheel was very clearly buggered though as the float was way out of spec. The rattle on cold idle has disappeared though.
Good work Mol.
Balljoint did shift after some good whackage. And yes the flange driveshaft with stardrive bolts are one thing I like about VW group cars.
Ross tec is brilliant
Fair play mate. I'm in the cba camp of doing stuff but now I've moved and have no tame garages I'm gonna be back on it......
Apparently they don't all have that design. I've done them so many times now I've figured out the routine - put the long one on first and put the wheel on that side and use a brick to counter-hold it. That way you can move the brick to do the bolts on the other side of the driveshaft easily. Then when you do the short side, because there's less room leave the wheel on the other side and you can lie sideways and position the brick to hold and release the wheel with your foot.
Ta Duncan. Hopefully another job I'll never have to do again. I can't wait to go all electric. No flywheels, no gearboxes, no injectors, turbos, EGRs, air filters, glow plugs etc etc.
I can’t wait to go all electric. No flywheels, no gearboxes, no injectors, turbos, EGRs, air filters, glow plugs etc etc.
+1
Did a long trip yesterday, and the flywheel seems to be bedding in as it's now noticeably lovely and smooth, gear shifts are getting better. Pretty happy with that.
Nice one, that's a good result in the end.
One of those jobs where you get half way and wish there was an undo button so you could go back and either leave it well alone or take it to the local garage and throw money at the problem.
That or report it as stolen and set fire to the bastard thing in a layby 😉
The idea has come up many times.
Next thing on the list is fixing the erratic heater output. It's an electronic or a sensor problem.