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As the middle-lane hoggers rule comes in to force today. 🙂
Are they hanging them from the overhead gantries?
oh to have a middle lane again... 2 lanes confuses Tasmanians enough.
Tailgaters too. 😀
I think 2 lanes is enough down here Mike.
Have they managed to define a middle lane hogger yet? For example, is someone who is driving at the speed limit but staying in the middle lane hogging it as legally no one should be able to overtake them...
Today is a good day.........
...because DannyB stopped signing posts with
Cheers
DannyB
🙂
hogging has nothing to do with absolute speed. It's being in a lane further to the offside than necessary for longer than necessary to complete a safe pass of a slower moving vehicle, unless in queuing traffic.
Cheers.
The Stig.
[quote=kiwijohn ]I think 2 lanes is enough down here Mike.
probably but experiencing the Kiwi version this week 🙂 a slightly different experience
Danny - I've wondered that as well - prove the offence if there are lorries ahead - what constitutes hogging? A traffic officers judgement?
Don't get me wrong, I HATE middle lane hoggers, just wondering how, what criteria they will use to legally define the offence.
Are they actually going to attempt to enforce this rule?
[quote=dannybgoode ]Have they managed to define a middle lane hogger yet? For example, is someone who is driving at the speed limit but staying in the middle lane hogging it as legally no one should be able to overtake them...
not moving left when there is space to, you should drive in the left most lane possible, if you are a bit scared of changing lanes then you should probably stay at home.
jodafett - Member
Today is a good day............because DannyB stopped signing posts with
Cheers
DannyB
Amen to that 😉 And it's a Friday 8)
PS - Must have undertook at least 10 hoggers on my 13 mile commute 🙄
Are they actually going to attempt to enforce this rule?
+1
How often do you actually see traffic cops policing the roads, nevermind being able to spot, confirm and then pull over someone driving in the one lane without moving back to the left?
Although, I'd have thought that traffic cops will be LOVING this new law, gives them a chance to pull over idiot drivers and not only give them a talking to about how crap their driving is, but also give them a ticket!
peterfile - Member
How often do you actually see traffic cops policing the roads, nevermind being able to spot, confirm and then pull over someone driving in the one lane without moving back to the left?
Yep, those unmarked patrol cars are getting harder to spot! 😀
All I see every day on the motorway though is speeding, undertaking and general poor behaviour and it's fairly rare to see people getting pulled.
This new law feels a wee bit like pissing in the wind. The people who it's designed to target won't even be aware what they are doing is wrong, so how will it change behaviour?
Of course they'll enforce it. Rigorously. All 20 of the traffic cops left on the nations roads will clamp down on it in the same ruthless fashion they do on mobile phone use while driving.
Personally I'd have snipers stationed on gantries to take out middle lane sitters
Stoner - Member
hogging has nothing to do with absolute speed. It's being in a lane further to the offside than necessary for longer than necessary to complete a safe pass of a slower moving vehicle, unless in queuing traffic.
What's always puzzled me about this middle lane hogging business is how can you legally pass someone who is travelling at the speed limit?
Therefore it can't be hogging if you are at the speed limit surely.
Therefore it can't be hogging if you are at the speed limit surely.
Being in the middle lane when you are not overtaking and it's safe to move into the left is lane hogging, regardless of the speed you are travelling?
It's not up to joe public to enforce the speed limit by sitting in front of other drivers at 70mph
what criteria they will use to legally define the offence.
The obvious ones I suppose. There's enough of the obvious ones on the road to disuade the law from bothering with the not so obvious instances.
The obvious ones I suppose. There's enough of the obvious ones on the road to disuade the law from bothering with the not so obvious instances.
Yep. Can't imagine the cops will be driving around looking for people who don't immediately move left.
They'll be picking up the muppets who casually cruise in the middle lane on a quiet road, which is why it seems unlikely that many will be caught.
Film it from the gantries and post out the penalties, it's not as if we are short of cameras.
It's not the middle lane, it's the 1st overtaking lane. If you aren't over taking, you shouldn't be in it.
That should answer all the if I'm going 70mph how can I be hogging protesters.
What's always puzzled me about this middle lane hogging business is how can you legally pass someone who is travelling at the speed limit?
Because most people who think they're travelling at the speed limit, aren't. Speedos usually overread, often by about 10%. So they're in the middle lane going "I'm alright Jack, I'm doing 70, sod the rest of you" when in actuality they're doing something in the low- to mid-60s.
So its less of an offence to be driving at 80+ which is the only time when someone sitting in the middle lane doing the speed limit would be an inconvenience than it is to be the one sitting in the middle lane?
Just playing devils advocate here but shouldn't both drivers be done and if speed limits were enforced more then 'hogging' would be less of an issue.
For the record I do generally stay left when pertinent to do so.
The folks that this is aimed at couldn't give a toss about either the law nor common sense.
There are some right ignorant folk on this planet, so far law and common sense has passed them by.
So its less of an offence to be driving at 80+ which is the only time when someone sitting in the middle lane doing the speed limit would be an inconvenience than it is to be the one sitting in the middle lane?
Who said anything about that? The speeding laws still exist and I'm sure will continue to be enforced as much as they are currently.
Are they actually going to attempt to enforce this rule?
There should be plenty of these:
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coming back from Afghanistan and plenty of squaddies looking for employment - together they should be able to machinegun some sense into middle lane hoggers and those who won't use their indicators.
if you are a bit scared of changing lanes then you should probably stay at home.
THIS i always wonder how they get to the middle lane in the first place
As a gentle plodder at 60 I often get them stuck behind me when I overtake the odd truck. Its ace the way even with a clear third lane they just sit there . I would say at most days I undertake someone in the middle lane as well despite only doing 60 mph as well
as others note it is for overtaking and the I am doing 70 line is simplistic. Why not just go in to the "fast lane then"
I doubt they will enforce it
Does anyone have any idea why on a four lane road the third lane becomes the middle lane
So its less of an offence to be driving at 80+
No they are both offences and IMHO should both be enforced equally.
Half the problem on busy motorways is that, if you are prepared to move from lane 2 back into lane one (or 3 to 2 for that matter) for a short distance before you'll need to overtake again, the buggers you're trying to be polite to will deliberately bunch up and not let you pull out again - so you end up with the option of braking to 50 and waiting endlessly for a decent gap, or forcing your way out, sending a braking wave backwards down the road.
Trying to legislate for a general lack of manners on all sides on the M25 at 8am is a minefield.
Therefore it can't be hogging if you are at the speed limit surely.
Seen as every lane bar the one next to the hard-shoulder is essentially an auxilliary-lane for over-taking only, driving in the middle lane when the inside lane is free is therefore 'hogging' and now illegal. I fail to see how there can be ambiguity about it personally.
Does anyone have any idea why on a four lane road the third lane becomes the middle lane
Stupidity.
if you are prepared to move from lane 2 back into lane one (or 3 to 2 for that matter) for a short distance before you'll need to overtake again, the buggers you're trying to be polite to will deliberately bunch up and not let you pull out again
Odd how that almost never happens to me.
Forward planning, innit.
As others have said, regardless of what speed people around you are doing, its your job to drive at/within the speed limit in the correct lane, which is lane 1, unless you are overtaking.
Anyway, I think they will enforce this as much as possible. They currently can't be arsed basically because of the hoops that need jumping through to get a conviction. This costs a huge amount. Now your average work-a-day traffic cop can just pull you over and get £100 each time he does it. Its a win/win for them
Pretty sure this has been in the Highway Code since I learnt to drive 21 years ago:
https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/lane-discipline-264-to-266
All I see every day on the motorway though is speeding, undertaking and general poor behaviour and it's fairly rare to see people getting pulled.This new law feels a wee bit like pissing in the wind. The people who it's designed to target won't even be aware what they are doing is wrong, so how will it change behaviour?
Indeed. Plus the motorway has just become ( was it ever different?) a free for all. I find motorway driving quite unpleasant as it seems that you are relying on others people's own sense of self preservation, rather than an understanding of the law/rules/etiquette, to drive safely.
I still find it ludicrous that motorway driving doesn't form part of driving lessons/test.
Just back from 2 weeks in Florida. The Americans have no concept of lane discipline. All three lanes would have traffic in them (four lanes in some cases), with everyone doing below the speed limit. No one pulls into a an inside lane even if theres lots of space and no one moves over for faster vehicles. Its like they have no mirrors or awareness of other traffic around them.....its the only time I have ever been glad to see the M62.
Isn't undertaking legal in the US though, so lane discipline is less of an issue?
I did quite a lot of driving between Munich, Salzburg and the Austria lakes/Bavarian alps last week.
I always thought of German drivers on the autobahn like some sort of mythical driving demi-gods. They're terrible!
Reasonable lane discipline, most do seem to move back out of the overtaking lanes, but that's only because there's idiots hooning it at 120mph+ in heavy traffic, sitting a car length away from each others bumpers and weaving in and out of traffic with only a split seconds notice.
I saw more dangerous manoeuvres in a week of driving there than I have in a year on the roads in the UK.
Can't imagine what it must be like having to do daily driving on roads like the A8 (like my mates does every day). He hates it.
The Americans have no concept of lane discipline.
There's a couple of differences here, though.
First, the 'first' lane on a three-lane highway is often an entry / exit lane; you simply cannot drive in it, or you'll end up being filtered off somewhere else unless you hop lanes every few hundred yards.
Second, there's no concept of an overtaking lane like there is here. You're expected to use whatever's here.
Isn't undertaking legal in the US though, so lane discipline is less of an issue?
Well, yes, but you seem to be implying that it's not legal over here, which isn't the case. Undertaking isn't illegal, though driving without due care / dangerous driving is. If you're swinging in and out of lanes carving people up, that's what you'll be charged with; you're explicitly allowed to pass on the left to overtake slower-moving traffic.
not moving left when there is space to, you should drive in the left most lane possible, if you are a bit scared of changing lanes then you should probably stay at home.
So what, are we supposed to be constantly weaving in and out of the inside lane? This would be far far worse than sitting in it when there are lorries in the inside lane.
Isn't undertaking legal in the US though
No. Not in most states at least. The rules are the same as they are here, but no-one seems to give a crap.
Well, yes, but you seem to be implying that it's not legal over here, which isn't the case. Undertaking isn't illegal, though driving without due care / dangerous driving is.
From Highway Code - 268Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
It's drafted pretty broadly, but I take that to mean you can only undertake to keep up with traffic in your lane?
If you are in the left lane on an otherwise empty motorway and come up to a middle lane hogger doing 60mph, does that mean it's ok to pass on the left, despite it not being to keep up with traffic in your lane?
It always feels so odd swinging out 3 lanes and then back in again.
oh to have a middle lane again... 2 lanes confuses Tasmanians enough.
We have three on a couple of freeways here in Adelaide, Mike. Noone, and I mean noone (well, apart from me) uses the inside lane. I just treat it as my own personal undertaking lane these days to avoid frustration.
I still find it ludicrous that motorway driving doesn't form part of driving lessons/test.
It does from part of the 'Pass-Plus' test which earns you the equivalent of a year's no-claims discount on your first year.
If I remember rightly The PP cost me £170 and instead of having to pay the £1200, my first year's insurance on a 1.6 Golf MKII was £650.
If you mean it should be mandatory, (which the pass-plus is not), then I agree.
From BBC:
Among the offences police are expected to focus on are:...
• Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic
YES! I WIN! WOOHOO!!!
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It's drafted pretty broadly, but I take that to mean you can only undertake to keep up with traffic in your lane?
It also says "do not" rather than "you MUST NOT" - ie, there's no law to back up the rule.
You're not supposed to weave about between lanes, for fairly obvious reasons. If you're doing 70 in the first lane and encounter someone doing 50 in the second, it's arguably both safer and desirable to pass on the left than to make four lane changes.
Don't get me wrong, I HATE middle lane hoggers,
Well, it's good to see you're worrying about the things that really matter.
it's arguably both safer and desirable to pass on the left than to make four lane changes.
That's always been my thinking, but I have on occasion swung all the way out and back in on an empty road just to make a point, which they don't seem to get. 😥
If you mean it should be mandatory, (which the pass-plus is not), then I agree.
Yes, exactly that. Also, i know it's not legal as a learner to drive on the motorway with an insured driver etc, but is it even legal to drive on the motorway as a learner with a qualified instructor? For example if you asked your instructor to allow you to drive on the motorway for experience/confdence would he legally be able to?
The thing I hate is when I can pull into the left lane for around 15/20 seconds between lorries, but that is just enough time for the person behind me to slowly creep alongside with no care that I am approaching the lorry in front and will be wanting to pull back out. This results in me needing to break or slow down to pull back out behind them.
Makes it tempting to stay in the middle lane when lorries are spaced by around this amount of distance.
No you can't drive on the motorway until you have passed your test regardless of who is sat in the passenger seat. It almost calls for a 2-step license, part 1 allows you to take part 2, the motorway bit. Its all a bit daft really as you are allowed on dual carriageways with only a provisional which is pretty much like being on a motorway anyway
it's arguably both safer and desirable to pass on the left than to make four lane changes.
Well not really, since when people are themselves 'overtaking' they tend not to look when pulling back in, or not look as hard. Plus there is more car and potentially passengers obscuring the view when looking that way. Person doing 50mph in the middle lane is more likely to think 'oops, better pull in' and cut across you doing 70mph. Everyone expects faster traffic to their right, slower to their left. That's kind of the point. As shown in the USA, when you get faster and slower traffic to both left and right, the result is bedlam. And you end up using the lanes less effectively, which means they build more, which means even more bedlam.
The thing I hate is when I can pull into the left lane for around 15/20 seconds between lorries, but that is just enough time for the person behind me to slowly creep alongside with no care that I am approaching the lorry in front and will be wanting to pull back out. This results in me needing to break or slow down to pull back out behind them.
This is why I stay out in these situations if it's not busy. I'm doing 70, folk going faster can happily be in the right hand lane and the slower traffic on the inside. Works fine. If you are gong to force everyone to chop in and out of the inside it'll be a ridiculous mess, when there'll be one or two perfectly clear lanes to the right.
This is why I stay out in these situations if it's not busy. I'm doing 70, folk going faster can happily be in the right hand lane and the slower traffic on the inside. Works fine. If you are gong to force everyone to chop in and out of the inside it'll be a ridiculous mess, when there'll be one or two perfectly clear lanes to the right.
S'what I do on the odd occasion I drive on the M4/5. There's usually loads of trucks on lane 1, with relatively small gaps, and they're all doing around 50, whereas I'm doing an indicated 80, (72 in real terms), so pulling in to lane 1 would mean staying there for less than thirty seconds before having to indicate to pull out again. When there's big spaces I do pull into lane 1, and stay there for as long as I can.
I have, occasionally, come up behind a middle lane cruiser when I've been in lane 1, with faster traffic already in lane 3, so I just sit in lane 1 and pass on the left. I do watch the other driver like a hawk, just in case he starts to pull across without bothering to look, though.
This results in me needing to break or slow down to pull back out behind them.
Can't believe I wrote break instead of brake! 😡
Well not really, since when people are themselves 'overtaking' they tend not to look when pulling back in, or not look as hard.
These people aren't overtaking, they're sitting in the second lane staring off into the middle distance. I've had arguments with people trying to tell me it's the "cruising lane" before now.
I'm always prepared for it to happen, but 99 times out of 100 I've more chance of growing a second willy than having someone change into the first lane as I'm passing. Chances are they'll still be sat there long after I've passed them.
I'm always prepared for it to happen, but 99 times out of 100 I've more chance of growing a second willy than having someone change into the first lane as I'm passing. Chances are they'll still be sat there long after I've passed them.
On particularly boring drives on almost empty motorways before now, I've driven round middle lane hogs a few times. Approach from inside lane, cross middle lane into outside lane and overtake, cross back to inside lane. Ease off back to 59 mph, they overtake you, repeat.
My record was five times before they got the picture that they can drive in the inside lane when nothing's there.
On particularly boring drives on almost empty motorways before now, I've driven round middle lane hogs a few times. Approach from inside lane, cross middle lane into outside lane and overtake, cross back to inside lane. Ease off back to 59 mph, they overtake you, repeat.My record was five times before they got the picture that they can drive in the inside lane when nothing's there.
😆 I have got to give that a go 😆