[Closed] Today, if you're English...

druidh, as Cunard is a British-American company there are some yanks that have an argument that all Cunard owned vessels are also British-American too (despite registration in Southampton) 🙄

I love lots of England and many things about it. Don't feel the slightest bit proud of being English though. My accomplishments are my own, those of my fellow countrymen are theirs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ashamed of my cultural heritage, I just don't understand the pride thing really.

Some believe that the Polish are our best (wartime) allies over the years.

Well they were the ones who initially cracked the enigma code and gave us the details of how they did it, so it's hard to argue about that one.

Fred is not a moron.

Well, there's a huge burden of proof countering that argument from his previous pseudonyms...

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron_(psychology) ]Duh? [/url]

I read the thread as moving into a debate of symbols of Englishness specifically re Spitfires and/or other things that were made in England.

I suppose it was really about British/English imagery rather than symbols. And linking me to the BNP is pretty bloody laughable mate 🙂

Gonefishin - explain.

From your link, Fred...

The word moron, along with others including "retarded", "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was [u]formerly[/u] considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, [u]but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists[/u].

I've underlined the important bits for you...

TJ
That's why I said in a far earlier thread it's argueable. I'm merely pointing out that the location of the Battle of Britain and the English origins of the Sptifire go somewhere to cement this connection.
I'm sure if the Spitfire was of Welsh/Scottish origin and the battle had been fought out over the Welsh/Scottish coast you would feel this sort of first in line connection with it. I personaly don't, but I do see it as a piece of iconic English design by one man R Mitchel regardless of where each pound note or peice of metal for it came from.

It's all very subjective. Look at the Mini, is that British, English or Turkish? To me it would be British.

Look at the Mini, is that British, English or Turkish?

Seeing as it's a mini-BMW these days, I'd say German! 😉

designed by an Italian

Gonefishin - explain.

Well the Poles, knowing that they were likely to be a target for a Nazi invasion, were hard at work cracking the Enigma code long before WWII broke out.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma#Polish_breakthrough ]This wiki link will cover some of the history, but I suspect that as with all things to do with cryptograph, there will be important details missing.[/url]

Ah bugger I thought Issigonis was Turkish.

zokes you know what I mean you tinker.

I wouldn't condsider something as quintessentially English simply because it had been designed by an English person.

Re Spitfires, did you know that they were based on pioneering work on aircraft engineering done by American air racing enthusiasts between the wars?

Some of those planes look just like Spitfires, although I am failing to find pics...

Personally I'm happy to be British, it's certainly how I describe myself. I look at the map of our island(s) and I don't see the borders. (imaginary lines dreamt up by bureaucrats after all). I'm as happy that a picture of a gay pride march or British people wigging out at Eid represents our Island as much as a picture of random engineering, or the palace of Westminster. Although for me, the qualities that are important are the ones that the People who live here have, rather than the things...

all IMO, of course...

[img] [/img]

Twang!

Gone with St George Cross socks today.. 🙂

+1 for nickc.

Are you Nick Clegg btw?

Totally agree with that statement molgrips.

Can I just mention Hollands Pies?

And Vimto?

ta!

**** me! 😆

[url=

Spitfire Video[/url]

[img] [/img]

Re Spitfires, did you know that they were based on pioneering work on aircraft engineering done by American air racing enthusiasts between the wars?

Like this, you mean? Funded by the British government, designed by Reginald Mitchell, of Stoke?

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_S.6B ]
[img]

[/img][/url]

Yes, just like that Schneider cup plane.. and also a lot like other American planes...

She could do with eating a few less pies! 😉

Fred is not a moron [url=

is[/url]

.......and HP sauce, of course.

Colemans mustard should probably be in there, along with mushy peas. 😀

tj- rumour has it the gitaurist in the video is none other than the mighty frank sidebottom !

She could do with eating a few less pies!

That must be the most absurd statement on this thread

That must be the most absurd statement on this thread

I agree. I feel she has consumed just the correct amount of pies.

I'd consume her pie.

Muffins, buns & crumpet.

What a wonderful country we live in............

I feel she has consumed just the correct amount of pies.

Depends if you like them a little chubby or not i guess. Each to their own. 😉

I'd consume her pie.

That is the kind of thing that makes me proud to be British!

Depends if you like them a little chubby or not i guess.

Are you seeing the same picture - or do you like blokes???

Rusty Spanner - Member

Muffins, buns & crumpet.

What a wonderful country we live in............

Yeah, not too shabby...

[img] [/img]

Complete with oil drip tray. 🙂

British engineering at it's best, and each one lost money for the manufacturers.

<Wipes away a patriotic tear.....>

Just got in. Is this 9 pages of infantile squabbling about racism or shall I read it?

Sure, It was designed to leak a bit of oil so the front subframe didn't rust 😉 Shame they didn't 'engineer' a similar solution for the rear!

Depends if you like them a little chubby or not i guess.

I suppose I do a little, but I'm not quite sure what that has to do with the photo that was posted there, unless these are more to your taste?

[img] [/img]

Just got in. Is this 9 pages of infantile squabbling about racism or shall I read it?

It's generally OK with just a few colonials huffing & puffing

She's not what I'd call fat:

[img] [/img]

(edit -she's Miss England I think!)

Perhaps its my widescreen monitor. As i said each to their own. rkk haven't looked at many blokes bums but obviously you have so i will let you educate us all on that! 😉

edit: Oh i agree, she definitly isn't fat.

edit again: Although those thighs are a fair old size! 😉

[i]Although those thighs are a fair old size[/i]

All the better for keeping my ears warm.

**** nationalism, the few hundred million dead who died in the name of it is a good enough argument in itself, seems to me to just be a relic of our tribal past we would do well without, I'm with John Lennon, the whole world should be as one! 😛

**** nationalism

I totally agree, although I think the thread was started on the premise of patriotism...

hmmm, I think patriotism and nationalism are so similar they are pretty much synonymous, hence 'the great patriotic war' (which incidentally left 20 million Russian patriots dead). I think there must be better things to celebrate than simply in which political boundaries you were born in/belong to, which seems pretty arbitrary. I'd like to see days celebrating specific huge advancements in science, medicine or engineering across countries as an achievement for humanity rather than promoting divides between countries through patriotism/nationalism! I just can't see how it can do humanity any good in the long term, if anyone out there can change my mind please do because right now I feel very left out! I want to change! 🙂

Samuel Johnson was good as well.
Shame no one uses his ideas anymore........ 😀

I just can't see how it can do humanity any good in the long term, if anyone out there can change my mind please do because right now I feel very left out! I want to change!

I very much doubt it'll ever do humanity any good whatsoever, but we're all animals, and the number one instinct of animals is to try to survive at all costs. Unfortunately, that either means being on your own, or being in a group. Humans as a species seem to like groups, and the key to this means being in the best group. When there aren't enough resources for the group (oil, food, water), members get a little tetchy. I doubt you'll ever get rid of the grouping mentality...

zokes - Member
From your link, Fred...

The word moron, along with others including "retarded", "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists.
I've underlined the important bits for you...

Well, I can't speak for 'Fred', but if you're aiming such a comment in my direction, I'd be interested in knowing why you think using such a term to describe me is valid?

Just interested in your reasoning behind your insulting behaviour, like.

And whoever thinks that young lady's bottom is too fat, doesn't have any idea what a real woman looks like....

Well, I can't speak for 'Fred', but if you're aiming such a comment in my direction, I'd be interested in knowing why you think using such a term to describe me is valid?

Just interested in your reasoning behind your insulting behaviour, like.

Well, 'Fred' was banned from here several times, hid for a while, then several people noted that you seem to be a bit like him, just without his slightly annoying 'duzznts' etc. Last time he cropped up after an enforced absence, he also stopped typing like that for a while, but still had the same stupid arguments, which ultimately gave him away. If you're not Fred, then hard luck for being very like him. Regardless of whether Fred deserved any of those insults in real life, he certainly deserved most of them (and more) online.

EDIT: See here: http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/search.php?q=Talkemada+fred&x=0&y=0

True zokes, but I'd say survival is on about the same plane as procreation when it comes to instincts and some people (monks, etc.) can control those instincts maybe it is possible to stop a grouping instinct that is an offshoot of survival? Hopefully a future without any of the archaic human instincts that do us no good will be a reality one day! I think the whole spitfire debate shows it well, and the people who first put the pics up then tried to argue that they were simply displaying British/English design and engineering are kidding themselves, it is a symbol of one group of peoples resistance against another countries nationalism! If you want a good example English brilliance, discovery of the structure of DNA anyone? Has done massive amounts for humanity as a whole and it all happened in good old Cambridge! 🙂 But can I being English be proud of that? what connection to Crick and Watson do I have to them, other than my passport bears the same stamp? I find my lack of patriotism deeply unnerving, most STW'ers seem pretty intelligent and the vast majority on here seem to be overflowing with patriotism today, so I'm now of the opinion that I must be missing something! What's wrong with me! 😕

I'm not inger-lish.

But happy St. Georges Day!

Shame you don't have a bank holiday either-that would be nice!

Still at it?
Blimey, that's very English of you!
Well done chaps.

BTW - Did anyone mention the mighty Marshall Amplifiers? English!
Norton, Triumph, James, Francis Barnet, Villiers, Ariel, BSA - All English. Admittedly all gone, but....

SB

Edit - Hang on!

it is a symbol of one group of peoples resistance against another countries nationalism!

The spitfire is no such shiz. What u on about?

[i]I'd like to see days celebrating specific huge advancements in science, medicine or engineering [/i]

Gunpowder, Nuclear missiles and Spitfire.

stratobiker - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you read it as if I meant it is a general symbol for resistance against nationalism, which I didn't. Either that or you need some serious history lessons 😉

drac - ok then medicine... 😀

Crick and Watson do I have to them, other than my passport bears the same stamp?

Watson was American IIRC

Going back to Alfred, it was Offa of Mercia who is first recorded as mooting the idea of an 'Anglaland' or land of all the English. Alfred of Wessex held defiantly fast in the face of the Danish Grand Army & eventually defeated it at the battle of Ethandun in AD 878.
However, it was his grandson AEthelstan who really created the boundaries of the modern state of England.
He led his army into the Danelaw & wrested it back into English hands, defeated the Scots, the Picts & the Strathclyde Welsh* before heading back down the Western coast to attack the 5 Welsh Princedoms.
The Princedoms capitulated and agreed to pay an annual tribute of:-
1500lb gold
3000lb silver
30'000 head of cattle * as many hunting dogs & hawks as the King did require - one hell of a tax on a dark-age economy!

It was English stubborness & defiance that led in 50yrs from the 5 square miles of Athelney marsh, which was all that Alfred held before Ethandun, to the creation of the English state under his grandson AEthelstan.

Now, off to buy several bottles of Bombardier - hopefully the Burning Gold edition! 😆

*In old English Walesch(Welsh) is a word meaning 'foreigner/outsider/other' therefore Strathclyde Welsh means the foreigners who live in Strathclyde.

uplink - Yeah that is true! Didn't know that, point still stands though, it was just an example, albeit a semi incorrect one 🙂

Well, I've got to say this isn't what I hoped it would be, but it is kind of what I half expected. I personally find it all a bit childish to be honest. One person posts something they associate with their Englishness and then half are trying to prove it is English, half of you trying to argue it isn't. Then all the people who feel that they need to tell everyone they don't feel English. Whoopee for you. No, really. You telling me why you think it's archaic will help me realise that I am wrong.

Here's what I meant to do. I meant to express my feelings about being English. I hoped (and for 50% of this I was right) that other people would say why they feel proud to be English. But instead we get petty arguments that mean nothing in the great scheme of things. Ok, you don't feel English. Ok, you don't think certain things are English. Ok, you don't feel any national affiliation and feel we should all get along together. Great. But this isn't "I don't feel English" day. It isn't "your idea of what's English is wrong" day either.

Whatever being English means to you, today is a day to celebrate it. Be it a spitfire, a pint of spitfire, stone henge, football, cricket, scones, fish and chips or whatever. Enjoy being English. Just for today, because as sure as a pound to a penny we'll all be reminded of our father's sins, our mixed heritage and not actually being English and inumerable other things tomorrow.

well said.

fish and chips or whatever

Fried fish: Dutch Jewish import
Chips: From potatoes; American import, first fried probably in France

Sorry! 😳

Whatever being English means to you, today is a day to celebrate it. Enjoy being English. Just for today

Today is no different to any other, unless you're a Christian who recognises St George as a saint with relevance and influence on your life.

I'm proud to be English every single day. I don't need anyone to tell me to be.

tree-magnet - I wasn't just saying I don't feel English, I was simply saying why atm I'm not feeling it and looking for someone to give a decent enough reason to support days like today, because I am genuinely feeling left out, most people feel very strongly for something I don't, why shouldn't I be curious as to why?

PS if you go onto internet forums expecting other posters to keep to your strict idea of what you think they should be putting, you are always going to be disappointed aren't you?

Zokes; whoever you've mixed me up with, the fact remains that you've insulted me.

Just because I have opinions which differ to yours, does not make me intellectually subnormal. Seriously, I find your comments offensive and unnecessary.

Today is no different to any other, unless you're a Christian who recognises St George as a saint with relevance and influence on your life.

I'm proud to be English every single day. I don't need anyone to tell me to be.

I'm not Christian, and like you I am proud to be English everyday. However, if I overtly express this everyday, it would become tiresome and annoying to others. So, it seems logical to have one day when we can fully express our feelings. Join together with others who feel the same. We should pick a day that has been used before, that is part of our folklore and something that has until recentley been marginilised and claim it back. That day is today, in my opinion. If you don't feel the same, fair enough, but you are expressing a lot of energy to tell us that do that we're wrong.

tree-magnet - I wasn't just saying I don't feel English, I was simply saying why atm I'm not feeling it and looking for someone to give a decent enough reason to support days like today, because I am genuinely feeling left out, most people feel very strongly for something I don't, why shouldn't I be curious as to why?

Fair one, I think I picked up on yours because after catching up 3 pages and getting steadilly more peeved, yours was the last one before I posted. At the end of the day (besides the D and E layer dissapering and the F1 and F2 combining) I feel part of a cultural identity. A bastardised one, which I think is one of the great things about it. People have pointed out things that have come to our country from others that have made it better, and it's that attitude that I would like to see celebrated.

PS if you go onto internet forums expecting other posters to keep to your strict idea of what you think they should be putting, you are always going to be disappointed aren't you?

In all honesty I did expect this, but I hoped that those who wanted to express there views that weren't in celebration of an English day would instead perhaps stay out of it. I didn't have a strict theme for this thead, that'd be silly. I hoped that people would maybe express what England means to them, or how they feel about it. Not try to tear down others ideas of what it means to them. I suppose the religon threads should have taught me that!!

This is great it's like the old STW

Zokes; whoever you've mixed me up with, the fact remains that you've insulted me.

Just because I have opinions which differ to yours, does not make me intellectually subnormal. Seriously, I find your comments offensive and unnecessary.

[img] [/img]

It's the internets, get over yourself. If you can't, then maybe you have a cap that fits - wear it...

No problem. I'll just remember not to pay any respect to any future comments you might make, you brave little keyboard warrior you.

Pity you can't put all that energy into coming up with owt intelligent. Ah well...

No problem. I'll just remember not to pay any respect to any future comments you might make, you brave little keyboard warrior you.

Oh how ironic, Fred. Sadly you gave yourself away with the 'owt'. Knew you wouldn't be able to resist using your fake dialect for long. Perhaps you should go and enjoy yourself away from all those nasty keyboard warriors eh? Still sulking because Chipps never did let you have that shirt?

What was that? Did someone say something?

AAAAAAAAAnyway...

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

But that's not English, as other people use it as a condiment too, and oil seed rape blah blah blah......

Can I just add this:

[img] [/img]

My first car and and a Triumph of whichever English engineer mused thoughtfully "What would happen if we put an engine in a roller skate?"

Oh bollocks, this thread really ruined my evening, I hope you all get to have a wonderful night/life.

Enjoy what you do, just don't ruin others fun. A lot of people on here remind me of a school bully kicking the kids ball over the fence so they can't have any more fun kicking it about in the playground, some should know better, others have no idea, and yes that was deliberately condescending.

*skips to the end*

Just back from the pub. People dressed up in St Georges tops and hats, some not...especially my welsh mate. Everyone chilled and fun had by all. That is all.

End of thread.

geminafantasy - Member

stratobiker - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you read it as if I meant it is a general symbol for resistance against nationalism, which I didn't. Either that or you need some serious history lessons

Thanks 🙂

@2unfit2ride - "this thread really ruined my evening"..... I'm really sorry to read that. But remember these guys that were arguing crap today were the same guys putting themselves out for a missing bro' the other day (sharki thread). Sorry for the Americanisms. Have a great weekend.

SB 🙂

My first car was a Triumph Spitfire !

A lot of people on here remind me of a school bully kicking the kids ball over the fence so they can't have any more fun kicking it about in the playground

That's exactly what I thought when I first stumbled into this place.. either that or it was being used as a clandestine meeting place for a bunch of militant young conservatives.. who couldn't help spouting off viciously at the natives to win the head prefects favour when they had drunk a few too many pimms..

unfortunately my obsession with cycling has forced me to grow a thick skin..
this saddens me greatly