[Closed] Today, if you're English...

Designed by englishmen, built in england

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And by a guy born in the best county in England, makes me double proud.

JEngledow............no William Blake is a name sake, my favourite poem and Hymn

In answer to your OP it's clearly not Ok to celebrate England for just one day of the year as it would instantly make you a fully signed up BNP member. The sins of our fathers huh!

PeterPoddy - where the hell is that grub from???? That looks well worth a visit!!!!

LOL! 🙂 Dunno, just a random pic off the interweb!

For the record - I'm proud to be English every day, but why not shout about it once in a while? And today is as good as any, at the very least! 🙂

We have lost our way and it has become "cool" to be negative about our country.

that statement is about 20 years out of date.. I would say that it is now not quite 'cool'... but at least 'hip' (which I believe is the avant guard of cool) to be patriotic..

I prefer to be paryletic.. which I believe is the avant guard of patriotic..

I'm gonna go make a cup of tea.. which I believe is the avant guard of not wasting any more of my day on STW..

it - Member
In answer to your OP it's clearly not Ok to celebrate England for just one day of the year as it would instantly make you a fully signed up BNP member. The sins of our fathers huh!

It's health and safety gone mad!

Bet the rubber in those Spitfire tyres wasn't grown here either 🙄

No one want to accuse us of supporting the demise of the rain forest so we can have cheap roast beef.

for example: british architect. - so far no realted deaths (as fas as im aware...)

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so many people have a downer on england, if you don't like the place, leave, please, it'll do us all a big favour

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so many people have a downer on england, if you don't like the place, leave, please, it'll do us all a big favour

I love England, it's a great place to live - doesn't mean I have to wave flags around and shout about our football team does it?

lovely rant from spongebob - especially when he uses England and Britain as synonyms!

I actually think english patritism is a really difficult area - and the St Georges cross needs to be reclaimed from the xenophobes and racists.

However when folk ( very few on this thread) use England and britain as synonyms its very annoying . WW2 not the English fighting - it was the brits. The spitfire is a British Plane - not english. Chicken Tikka masala was invented in Scotland.

There is an element of wanting it both ways and what is England is hard to define? Its such a broad thing - from the mills and industrial heritage of the north to the village greens of the south. The celtic heritage of the cornish to the vikings on the east coast. The University towns and the mining towns.

Scotland and wales as minorities can define themselves by what they are not and in the main nationalism was not hijacked by the far right.

continue to reclaim a pride in being English - but make it a pride in the liberal freedom loving English - not the nationalistic fascist ones.

grum - Member

I love England, it's a great place to live - doesn't mean I have to wave flags around and shout about our football team does it?

Quick call redwatch I think we got a commie

our football team is nothing to shout about

So... because a Spitfire was once used on a BNP poster, we must now expunge it from our national identity, should we?

I put the picture up because its a masterpiece of design that is an object of beauty. The fact it kills people is neither here nor there. And i certainly wasn't celebrating that

Anything else we need to add to that list then? Could one of you members of the internet PC police force have a look through all the BNP literature and let me know what else I shouldn't be making reference too please

Thanks

continue to reclaim a pride in being English - but make it a pride in the liberal freedom loving English - not the nationalistic fascist ones.

amen to that

the megatron is in england...

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proper engineering.

I actually think english patritism is a really difficult area - and the St Georges cross needs to be reclaimed from the xenophobes and racists.

Completely agree, Billy Bragg made a good point that the UAF and SWP should wave The Union Flag and the St Georges Cross at counterdemonstrations against the EDL/BNP to show that they're not 'anti Britain/England' as these groups so often claim.

Lot of miserable people on this thread.

Heads to the pub for a pint of Spitfire....

Hear hear TJ. Time to reclaim English nationalism from the idiots.

The spitfire is a British Plane

Designed by an man born in Staffordshire, and built in Southampton.

You're right about Tikka Masala, my mistake. Learn something new everyday.

We mean it, maaaaan...

There is an element of wanting it both ways and what is England is hard to define? Its such a broad thing - from the mills and industrial heritage of the north to the village greens of the south. The celtic heritage of the cornish to the vikings on the east coast. The University towns and the mining towns.
Scotland and wales as minorities can define themselves by what they are not and in the main nationalism was not hijacked by the far right.

I think the thing that defines Englishness (is that a word?) is exactly that. The blending of 1000's of years of history that make us what we are today. The Norman, Celtic and Viking elements, the introduction of other cultures into our own, like the West Indians of the 40's and onwards, the sub continent cultures of the 70's (some are more English than the English!). Our dark and satanic mills, cricket on a village green, our engineering brilliance (as far as I can see no one has used WW2 to symbolise anything English (it was, after all, a [i]world[/i] war), but certainly the spitfire is very much an English icon. I love all parts of being English.

continue to reclaim a pride in being English - but make it a pride in the liberal freedom loving English - not the nationalistic fascist ones.

I couldn't agree more, and that's exactly the point of this thread. But the more people who tell us that we have to do this, or point out how the likes of the BNP have hijacked our identity just detract from this, imo.

hainey +1

So... because a Spitfire was once used on a BNP poster, we must now expunge it from our national identity, should we?

Didn't say that, but it's interesting that it seems to be such a big cultural touchstone. Don't think you can argue that's just to do with engineering.

And sorry but to me patriotism and xenophobia are part of a continuum. Most people I know (not necessarily excluding myself here) can get pretty xenophobic watching an England match. Depends how far you take it really.

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So much more classy than a stretched Hummer

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Stirling Moss sliding an Aston

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[b]English[/b] Electric Lightning.

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It wouldn't be so green if it didn't rain so much.

I really would strongly argue that the spitfire is a british icon!

TJ,

I don't think you need to argue with anyone (for a change). If you believe it is a British Icon then great, have fun. End of. Yawn.

why is it if the Paddies show pride in Ireland they're Patriotic, same for the Taffs and the Sweaties, but if an Englishman is patriotic, we're being xenophobic

Phhhhhhhhhhh.

Anyway. Back on topic.

Billy Wobbledagger 🙂
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And some more typically English food 🙂
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Happy St Georges Day, enjoyed the thread but why get wound up by those that want to sabotage it, talk of BNP etc just dont bite folks.

Great photos thanks for those who posted. Roast beef and Yorkshires, Astons, Rollers, Harriers, Lightings and the Spitfires,Cricket, Awesome.

British by Birth English by the Grace of God. 😉

why is it if the Paddies show pride in Ireland they're Patriotic, same for the Taffs and the Sweaties, but if an Englishman is patriotic, we're being xenophobic

Liking the irony.

gonefishin.................i thought someone might

Ah scones, more likely to be Scottish or Welsh than English though.

These kind of examples just show how silly the whole thing is imo - the concept of 'Englishness' is invented.

but if an Englishman is patriotic, we're being xenophobic

I'm hoping that was a joke, but if not - maybe it's because English people often [i]are[/i] being xenophobic?

you could say the same about Irishness, up until 20 years ago it was a 3rd world country, then all of a sudden it became trendy to be irish, good bit of PR by Guinness that

Some people on here really need to visit the doctors and get some Happy pills or a pint of good English Ale inside them. (some discharge from ICI will come on and tell me Ale was invented in wherever now) Mongtards. 😉

I was told by an Irish person that St Patrick's Day isn't actually that big a deal over there and it's mainly just Guinness marketing that's made it a big deal elsewhere?

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anokdale...........i'm just bored at work so thought i'd try and cheer meself up

One Englishman, an idiot; two, a sporting event; three, an Empire. 😀

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Clash - This is England[/url]

Happy St George's day, wherever you're from!

What about some English art?

My personal favourite, LS Lowry
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And you don't get much more English than Constable
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Or an E-Type Jag
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OK, maybe not art as such, but automotive art at least! 🙂

built in Southampton

But I'm not celebrating some bloke called George. It's merely a day to celebrate being English, and the (what should be) proud traditions, [b]mythology[/b] and cultural heritage that goes along with that

English identity needs to be reinvented and focused on "Englishness" - you could all start by reinstating your proper patron saint rather than some invented bloke from the eastern Med.
The number of dissenting threads should illustrate how people feel about the English subsuming everyone else's identity and using British / English as interchangeable - they're not.

Nothing repreents this arrogance more pointedly than the playing of the British National Anthem for the English team during the six nations.

Think you will find some spitfire engines were made here (Photos courtesy of the Lufwaffe)
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=44224
(Glasgow)
Happy St Georges day anyway.

There must be lots of better choices one could make to celebrate the wonderful English nation?

For a lot of people, obviously not, else they wouldn't have posted it. 🙄

If you disagree then thats fine, you're choice. Best of luck.

I was going to make reference to my favourite painting: Turners, The Fighting Temeraire.

Its stunning in reality. Go to the Tate Britain and have a look

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However. Its got a warship in it and therefore my mentioning it would immediately mark me down as xenophobic and possibly a member of the BNP 😉

The whole problem with Englishness and being English is that it usually descends into a fight or just something unpleasant. The right intentions are there but a few beers and some sunshine and suddenly everyone acts like a c0ck.

St George has Nothing to do with the mythology of these islands.

English identity needs to be reinvented and focused on "Englishness" - you could all start by reinstating your proper patron saint rather than some invented bloke from the eastern Med.

Who's our 'proper' patron saint? And why do we need a patron saint anyway?

I'm still campaiging for Alfred the Great Day.

rkk01 - Member
Nothing repreents this arrogance more pointedly than the playing of the British National Anthem for the English team during the six nations.

FFS use Jerusalem - that is about England and whats more its about the whole of England - not just the southern bit! Its even fairly stirring

Toomanybikes, same here re work and the English football team but that goal by Paul Gascoigne at Wembley come on that was as good as it gets IMHO

Binners and Peterpoddy - Quality paintings.

anokdale......oh yes, that Gascoigne goal was great, i do have to admit that

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Happy St. Georges Day everyone.

"To be born an Englishman is to win the lottery of life."

Loving the landscape pics guys. This green and pleasant land at this time of year when everything nature is exploding into life is second to non.

"The Fighting Temeraire" is a good analogy of England today. A battered, has-been half-rotten old warship being towed back to the scrapyard by something more modern, to be broken up.

MrSparkle - great choice of pics.

Mr Woppit......you're such a happy soul

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmbeeeer.

I've got some home brew on the go in the garage. Slurp.

"The Fighting Temeraire" is a good analogy of England today. A battered, has-been half-rotten old warship being towed back to the scrapyard by something more modern, to be broken up.

It's funny how the nice weather seems to bring out the best in people.

Who's our 'proper' patron saint?

St Edmund - St George is Patron Saint of "places that can't think for themselves"...Georgia excepted!!!

From Wiki

Saint George is the patron saint of Aragon, Catalonia, England, Ethiopia, Georgia, Greece, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, and Russia, as well as the cities of Amersfoort, Beirut, Fakiha, Bteghrine, Cáceres (Spain), Ferrara, Freiburg, Genoa, Ljubljana, Gozo, Milan, Pomorie, Preston, Salford, Qormi, Rio de Janeiro, Lod, Barcelona and Moscow, as well as a wide range of professions, organizations, and disease sufferers.

Although St Edmund has been the patron-saint of England for well over a thousand years, he has gradually been sidelined and today, in this land without saints, he is almost forgotten. Indeed, ever since the definitive establishment of the Normans in this country in the twelfth century, he has come to be neglected. Just as the Normans attempted to replace popular veneration for the Righteous English King Alfred with their fairy-tales and myths of the Non-English King Arthur, so they also tried to replace the memory of the English St Edmund with their crusaders' version of St George.

Edmund (Eadmund) was born on Christmas Day 841. Christian from infancy, in 856 he succeeded to the throne of what was perhaps the cradle of the English Nation in East Anglia. During his brief reign he came to fight alongside the future King Alfred in order to defend England from the invasions of the pagan Vikings. In 869 a great Viking army landed on the shores of his kingdom and Edmund marched out at the head of his army to defend the realm. The King was defeated and captured. In captivity he was ordered to renounce his faith and become a vassal of the heathen Danes, orders which he stoutly rejected. Repeating the name of Christ with his heart and his lips, he told them: 'Living or dead, nothing shall separate me from the love of Christ'. He was tied to a tree, tortured by being shot through with arrows, and then beheaded. His martyrdom took place on 20 November 869 at Hoxne in High Suffolk and his body was buried in a small wooden chapel nearby.

In 902 the relics, still incorrupt, were translated to Bedricsworth, at the very crossways of the four counties of Eastern England - Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex and Cambridgeshire. This town soon came to be called 'Edmundstowe', 'Edmundston' and finally was renamed Bury St. Edmunds. From this time on St Edmund became a local, and soon, national patron. In 929 the humble pilgrim King Athelstan founded a community to care for his shrine. In 945 another royal grandson of King Alfred, called Edmund, gave them further lands. St. Edmund had become the ideal English hero, a king and a martyr. The last purely English King of England, Edmund Ironside (+1014), was also named after him. In 1020 a monastic church was built over his shrine by King Canute and this was served by monks from Ely. Even after the final Viking Invasion and Occupation of 1066, the martyr's relics were placed in a refurbished shrine in a new church in 1095 and they continued to be a place of national pilgrimage.

However, in 1199 the French King of England, Richard I, was to call at the tomb of St. George in Lydda, while on the Third Crusade. Invoking the saint, he won a great victory and consequently placed himself and his army under St. George's protection. St. Edmund, however, remained the national patron. Thus in 1214 the future Magna Carta barons, in opposing Richard's younger brother, King John, rode to Bury St. Edmunds on St Edmund's day to make a pledge at the altar of St. Edmund to strengthen the national cause. In 1215 the Magna Carta was signed by King John in the water meadows of Runnymede. As a result of this historic event the motto of Bury St Edmunds remains to this day: 'Shrine of a King, Cradle of the Law'.

However, in the dynastic struggle after the hated King John's death in 1216, nearly all St Edmund's relics were stolen by French knights in 1217. They were taken to Toulouse in France and here they remained until 1901. The first consequence of this loss was that three years later, in 1220, St. George, already the personal patron of the sovereign, was inserted in the national calendar by Richard I's nephew, Henry III (1216-1272). Although the banner of St. Edmund was still carried by English forces in battle, by the time of Edward I (1272-1307) it had been joined by the banner of St. George.

The eclipse of St. Edmund continued in the reign of Edward III (1327-77) with the founding of the Order of the Garter dedicated to Our Lady and St. George. The English veneration of kingship allowed St. George to usurp the national patronage, although his title was never patron but 'specyel protectour and defendour of this royaume' (special protector and defender of the realm). However, even as late as the reign of Richard 11 (1377-99), a fine representation of St. Edmund as a national patron was made in the Wilton Diptych. In this he was accompanied by Edward the Confessor and St. John the Baptist as personal patrons, and there was still no sign of St. George.

Although in the reign of Henry VII (1457-1509), St. George was still only designated 'protector of the realm', it was under the Machiavellian tyrant Henry VIII (1491-1547) that St. Edmund became totally eclipsed. Henry actually removed St Edmund's name from the litanies of saints venerated in England and in 1539 he had the monastery at St Edmundsbury dissolved. Indeed after the Protestant Reformation, St George came to be one of the few saints to be at all known to the Protestant Church in England. Most of the relics of St Edmund (not the head-relic) were returned to the Roman Catholic authorities in England in 1901 and they are kept locked away at a private Catholic chapel in Arundel in Sussex.

It is our belief that these relics will not return to their home-town and their rightful veneration until English people return to him and all the values for which he stands. As Orthodox, with a history going back not only beyond the 469 years of the Protestant phase of English history (1535-2004), but also beyond the 469 years of the Roman Catholic phase of our island history (1066-1535), we believe that it is time for us to restore St Edmund to his rightful place in our history and in our hearts. He is the Light from the East, the gift born on Christmas Day, the defender of England and the defender of the right, the miracle of national unity and the revival of Christian Orthodoxy and national patriotism. His name, meaning 'blessed protection', recalls to us the words of his ancient hymn:

Seems to me like he fought for England and died for (and in England) - Unlike St george, who never* set foot in England
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* Probably

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Christ! there are some utterly joyless bastards on here.

Another celebration of wonderful culture:

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Ah yes. The Magna Carta. Made such a difference to the serfs - getting your face ground into the dirt by a bunch of "Barons" instead of a "King".

Republic now, please.

Secular Republic - no patron saints needed

Christ! there are some utterly joyless bastards on here.

+1

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I agree. Dis-band the monarchy and, therefore, that dirge of a British National [i]anthem[/i], dis-establish the CofE and get rid of first-past-the-post elections.

Back on topic:

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(Okay, built by the Normans....)

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[i]Christ! there are some utterly joyless bastards on here

certainly are, makes you wonder why they live here, if it's such a bad place to live............the eastern europeans seem to think it great!!!

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Carnival ;]

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toomanybikes - Member
Christ! there are some utterly joyless bastards on here

certainly are, makes you wonder why they live here, if it's such a bad place to live............the eastern europeans seem to think it great!!!

As has been said a few times on this thread you can be proud of your country without having to wave a bit of cloth around or envoking the spirit of someone who has nothing to do with England.

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Eid celebrations Manchester

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Gay Pride London

Dales Rider I see you and raise you:

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[i]You're right about Tikka Masala, my mistake. Learn something new everyday. [/i]

Well right in the sense something else Scotland claims to have come up with but may not be true. A bit like haggis, whisky, telephones and kilts.

Ooh Bamburgh Caslte good choice.

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The best 4x4xFar

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and why not....

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