God bless Toby. It's about time some brave rebel stood up for the diminished rights of rich, entitled, privately-educated white males to air their views, and defended them against the constant persecution they find themselves on the receiving end of. Thank god he's giving this downtrodden minority a voice, when the only platform they've had for those views in the past has been because they're the editor of the Spectator, or have a weekly column in the Daily Telegraph or something.
Only a real cynic would try and defend their vilification on the grounds that their views are more often than not incredibly offensive and people are merely pointing this out
Bloody snowflakes!
https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1230768236167221248?s=20
Free Speech.
£24.95 a year.
Half the country support Brexit & bozo
Many will lap this up & Toby will make a fortune off them
Looking at his web page, the main thing he seems to be offering is organising a web mob if someone gives you a hard time on social media.
Toby Young is just an establishment opportunist who will say or do more or less anything to make some cash.
Farage must be kicking himself for not coming up with this idea.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Applies to Toby Young and the "rich, entitled, privately-educated white males" as much as it does to anyone else.
...as much as it does to anyone else.
Binners then?
Yeah, great but we already have free speech. If he really cares about it then concentrate on parts of the world that don't have free speech and are much worse off for it.
He's not getting my cash
His stand up routine is well delivered whatever you think of his politics
https://order-order.com/2020/02/19/watch-full-toby-youngs-comedy-unleashed-stand-set/
The good thing in setting up things is you get to see who the people are who think that they should be able to happily say rascist & generally unpleasant things.
So you can just avoid them.
They came for the Spectator columnists but I did nothing as I was not a Spectator columnist...
Another right wing grifter sets up a grift.
Toby Young is an intellectual bankrupt, so much of what he says simply doesn't stand close scrutiny. If his father hadn't called in a favour, he'd be managing a Lidl somewhere.
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
Applies to Toby Young and the “rich, entitled, privately-educated white males” as much as it does to anyone else.
I don't think anyone is suggesting bojo and chums shouldn't be as racist and offensive as they please, however wishing to not be held to account for those views, nor to have those views discussed openly in public might, perhaps, be a significant part of why the OP posted this thread.
"His stand up routine is well delivered" I haven't heard any of it (and I'm not clicking the link because of) the fact that it's supported by Guido Fawkes makes me think it's not my cup of tea*
*unfunny punching down load of
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
I wouldn't want to rely on Toby to defend my right to say what he disapproves of TBH.
Poor wee toby, with a head like a poorly shaved ballsack he needs all the support that £24.95 can buy, or then again perhaps he just needs a sit down and a proper talking to regarding his outpouring of incel led bullshit
Another right wing grifter sets up a grift.
^^This^^
Isn't he sort of famous for burning various bridges and managing the highest '$1 per word' figure at vanity fair by being a workshy blagger?
My only worry is that his little scheme will become a short-term success, not because vast numbers of the swivel-eyed are desperate for an outlet, but because lots of lefty journalists will be expensing that £25 so they can hoover up some material and identify some nutters to stalk, and the rightwing journos will be baiting them back...
Applies to Toby Young and the “rich, entitled, privately-educated white males” as much as it does to anyone else.
No-one is stopping Toby Young or his fellow travelers from saying what they want.
What Toby gets upset about is not the denial of free speech, it's people challenging his shoddy arguments. Pointing out that someone is spouting offensive nonsense for clicks is not denying free speech.
Oddly his father was a good bloke, write the '45 Labour manifesto, was a force behind the CA and the OU, wrote some good and influential sociology and still managed to produce that piece of work.
Usually when people whinge about free speech what they really want is freedom from the consequences of what they say.
Only two people have ever blocked me on Facebook/Twitter (a local right winger and an Anglican priest). Ironically, they're both advocates of free speech. They both objected to me politely contesting their racism/homophobia/lies.
Usually when people whinge about free speech what they really want is freedom from the consequences of what they say.
This does happen, definitely. However there is a legitimate point of view that the consequences have got seriously out of hand to the point where free speech is inhibited. You have the freedom to throw yourself off a bridge, but clearly the consequences are undesirable to the point where it's not a good option. This isn't a new thing - David Hume didn't publish his devastating critique of organised religion in his lifetime because he knew the consequences were at the very best financial ruin and being outcast.
It's one thing to robustly challenge an idea, but if the consequences quickly extend to hounding a person's employer or harassing them then then that's a bit different. There are huge areas of life and human thought now that are basically off limits for any kind of public discussion.
For example (and I do not endorse these), there are excellent and robust arguments for how liberal western democracies enable and facilitate oppression by religious groups. There are good arguments for the benefits of Chinese or Russian political systems vs Western style liberal democracies. Can you honestly imagine anyone in any kind of public role being able to even enter into a debate on these issues without suffering real and material harm?
Here we go again… you are free to spout as much racist nonsense as you want… if you lose your job… or a student uni doesn’t want you getting a gang of like minded souls together on their premises… or you are arrested if you espouse attacks on minorities… if the media questions the basis of your statements… if other people on social media tell you that your views are abhorrent to them… that’s not a free speech issue…
Toby has just learnt from “Tommy” and wants some of that easy money.
Can you honestly imagine anyone in any kind of public role being able to even enter into a debate on these issues without suffering real and material harm?
I've discussed all sorts online over the last 20 odd years without any consequences, while being politically active and having a job where there could potentially be consequences.
that’s not a free speech issue…
So if you mention on social media that lots of people at your hospital seem to be dying of a strange respiratory disease and you get arrested that's not a free speech issue?
Or does freedom from arrest only apply to people whose views agree with?
Have a lollipop to fill the void in your understanding of the issue ^
So if you use a quote out of context to not answer a different question is that a free speech or a strawman issue?
I think its lollipoppist
Has Toby Young been arrested for tweeting about hospital deaths?
So if you shout FIRE in a crowded theatre and you get arrested that’s not a free speech issue?
Or does freedom from arrest only apply to people whose views agree with?
So if you mention on social media that lots of people at your hospital seem to be dying of a strange respiratory disease and you get arrested that’s not a free speech issue?
How does that link into anything I wrote? Very odd.
Have a lollipop to fill the void in your understanding of the issue
Perhaps, rather than resort to insults, you could try explaining?
If the argument - as Kelvin's was - is that people should be free to seek whatever retribution they can when others disagree with them then there can be no free speech. The Chinese doctor is an example of that view taken to extreme, and a good example of why that attitude is dangerous.
The Guardians take on it...
Say what you want about Toby Young – no, really, he’ll defend your right to say it
There is some singular power to Young that pulls your forehead like gravity towards the nearest wall, and here he is again, talking about free speech – and here we are again. Talking about Toby Young. Just like he wants us to. He’s done it again. The Michael Jordan of Being Wrong on the Internet.
😂
if you shout FIRE in a crowded theatre
I did consider quoting Oliver Wendell Holmes. The difference is between proper judicial process according to law and mob rule fueled by social media rumours.
If the argument – as Kelvin’s was
That was not my argument.
Nah, I'm currently far too busy sitting on my arse whilst staring out the sitting room window as i have a mug of coffee, Toby is a gobshite, thats as far as i need to explain, your attempt to conflate the treatment of a journalist in wuhan with the "wah-wah-poor me £24.95 club" is a false dichotomy.
Can you honestly imagine anyone in any kind of public role being able to even enter into a debate on these issues without suffering real and material harm?
I don't think many people in public roles would argue for Russian style "government" because they would just look foolish, but if they did, they wouldn't suffer "real and material harm".
Nobody has pointed out that we don't actually have freedom of speech in the UK...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#United_Kingdom
What Youngs really wants isn’t a Free Speech Union™®. He wants a Freedom from Consequences of Speech Union and a credible-sounding caption for his BBC appearances: “Toby Youngs, Free Speech Union.” But within 24 hours of announcing his Wazzocks’ Waco, his X-Men of Shits, Youngs’s endearingly bumbling Sun interview, in which he wouldn’t guarantee Tommy Robinson’s freedom to speak, exposed his contradictory thinking. Toby Youngs is a tragic fly, floating on flimsy wings of unearned privilege and family connections, banging repeatedly into the same window pane of failure, all the while wishing he were the soaring eagle of legend, instead of something that vomits on to its own food and sucks it back up into its mouth.
😀
Stewart Lee ^ settles the discussion,
Lidl's trainee management program is quite competitive and well regarded I believe, if so I doubt Young would get on it.
Do they do gift memberships? Purchase one for Jeremy Corbyn or Diane Abbott and see how Toby’s logic stands up...
Lidl’s trainee management program is quite competitive and well regarded I believe, if so I doubt Young would get on it.
That depends upon whether his Dad knows anyone on the Lidl board, doesn't it?
