[Closed] Tipping in Restuarnts - Wife Annoyed

scrotums - Member
Youngsters, eh?

well she's been doing it long enough to of changed jobs if she wanted too. Isn't a diploma in higher education classed as an entry level degree?

sorry i have derailed the thread. nurses need a degree now (for you oldies). they have over the boarder here in wales for quite a while now

In answer to the original question, I tip unless the service is bad

I don't get the 10% thing though. I know that is the accepted amount, but I don't understand why they should get more or less depending on whether I want lobster or a pizza

I like to tip in restaurants. I realise this is an "if you can afford it" thing, but tipping generously in places you know you're coming back to is a good investment.

And there is absolutely nothing to stop one tipping in other contexts. Not many people tip their lawyer, but a bottle of something when you're pleased with the job helps my enthusiasm level next time you need something in a hurry. I presume the same applies to surgeons, bike mechanics etc.

I don't get tipping, no one gives me a tip or a tax free (dodge) bonus in my job

I'd be in trouble in America. I ONLY tip if I think the food AND service were great. Why are you meekily paying a premium for average service or food?

Grow some balls.

My wife used to be a waitress. We nearly always tip, anywhere from a couple of quid upwards. Biggest annoyance is when we go out with friends. Our friends split down the middle on whether to tip...so at best we end up leaving half what we would consider fair. Sometimes our friends have taken us putting in an extra £5-10 as a reason for them to pay LESS in. So now I pay just the bill and leave a cash tip from wife and me as we are about to leave.

Grow some balls.

It's easy enough to think you're a big man when you're not giving people a bit extra. But do you think the waiting staff are looking at you keeping your purse shut and thinking "[i]there is a hombre with the vast cojones we like to see. We love and respect this man, because of his firm no tipping policy[/i]"?

I don't know many waiters, but I'm very sceptical that's how it works... 🙂

Surely Hora - in lieu of a financial tip, you give anyone that'll listen your opinion on something?

After all, you can't put a price on education

I rarely tip in the UK

I used to be a waiter. You can spot a good or bored one a mile away.

It is about growing balls. Partly admitting to yourself it wasn't great but also why are you tipping then? A tip is a thank you, a reward, recognition.

Its not an embarrasement tax.

Do I complain? Yes, send a dish back. Its how the staff deal with an issue that decides the tip too. How they turn around a situation. Its customer facing isn't it?

Funny though how we pay for a product elseehere with lesser margins (probably) to staff on a v.similar wage and we don't bung them a fiver!

So British to endure a meal, mumble yes thanks it was great. Leave a tip and then outside say 'never going back there again'!

Crackers.

Note - bigdummy. Read what I say, its called human interaction.

I used to work on a posh-ish restaurant back in the early 90's and tipping at that time was not the norm, it was a good evening if we got a few extra quid.
Nothing like what seems to be expected now.
I tend to tip if it's a group meal or occasionally if someone does actually do a good job. (Unlike the poor service in a restaurant on Sat when we waited ages to get served!)

Through work I have travelled quite a bit and one of the main reasons I hate visiting the US is the tipping situation. I really can't get my head around giving someone a tip for poor service. Also the fact it seems everyone wants
Japan is the opposite and it's great, you get brilliant service and they don't hassle you for a tip, on one of my 1st trips there we were chased by a waiter as we'd left a few yen because we rounded up the bill to the nearest note.
In a bar I frequented regularly one night there were a bunch of Americans in there and the waitress asked me to explain to them not to give her a tip as they see it as bad form. Took me ages to talk them out of it as they couldn't understand not giving tips as it is so ingrained in the US way.

Note - bigdummy. Read what I say, its called human interaction.

Perhaps you could PM me when you've finished editing it? 😉

❓

So do you guys tip the checkout person in the supermarket? The guy who cleans your toilets at work? The guy in your lbs who sells you an inner tube? The bloke who empties the bins in the park? What about the person in the call centre who spends an hour sorting out your insurance claim?

I spend all day dealing with the public. I can easily spend an hour with a customer. I get people shaking my hand and telling me how amazing my service is. Do I ever get a tip? No chance, I don't want it anyway, I do my job well because I take pride in it, not because I want someone chucking a handful of change at me.

Yes if there is a group of us we split it and round up because its easier and we all hate the "who ate what" mobile phone calculations but anything else is a no. Sorry.

I wonder how many of the generous tippers above (15%+) are also ardent lowest price chasing internet shoppers and hard nosed hagglers in car showrooms etc.

I think the Americanism to tip by default is partly to blame for how it is here now - we used to be a culture where you tipped for the exceptional but have now entered the murky waters of sort of tipping by default but not everyone and not always. In economic models where the employee is almost entirely reliant on the tip for their take home it is kind of explainable but that is not necessarily the case here in the UK.

Look, generally, I enjoy going out for meals. I can't recall the last time I felt the need to send something back. That is (perhaps) down to a conscious choice to enjoy myself, and it helps that I have the luxury of not worrying too much about cost. Me having a nice time (which I generally do) is down to a load of lowly-paid people running about all evening fetching things I fancy.

I expect the food to be good, and the service to be decent. My budget includes an extra 10-20% over and above the menu price, which by tradition goes to those running around, not to the owner. I'm not advocating tipping generously for shit food and surly service, but my expectation is that it will be "pleasant" or better and if that modest expectation is hit I'm happy to acknowledge, thank, reward or whatever. If I were a waiter, I assume I would sometimes have bad days when I didn't really wish to be at work, and the idea that I might get paid markedly less on those days seems unfair. YMMV etc. 🙂

I wonder how many of the generous tippers above (15%+) are also ardent lowest price chasing internet shoppers and hard nosed hagglers in car showrooms etc.

I'm not, if that's a genuine question. I've got better things to do. Sell me what I need, I understand you need to make rent.

🙂

So do you guys tip the checkout person in the supermarket? The guy who cleans your toilets at work? The guy in your lbs who sells you an inner tube? The bloke who empties the bins in the park? What about the person in the call centre who spends an hour sorting out your insurance claim?

Not really, no. Equally, I (hope I) don't come at any of those people with too much a sense of entitlement about how they do their jobs, and try to be courteous and to thank them whatever.

I don't really follow the argument that tipping in restaurants should be eliminated because tipping in supermarkets is rare, though.

Genuine question why is it ok for a waiter to commit tax fraud, but for someone who tries to maximise tax avoidance who earns £100k wrong?

why is it ok for a waiter to commit tax fraud

It isn't, and [i]technically[/i] cash tips should go on their tax return, which they should [i]technically[/i] be filing if they've got non-payroll income.

For a large proportion of waiting staff, we're talking a few quid an hour over minimum wage. If the argument is "tipping waiters abets tax fraud, so you shouldn't do it", then I'll take the risk personally. 🙂

I don't tip either. Will round up the bill to the nearest note. I just don't understand the whole tpping thing though??
If your in a third world country where the waiter/waitress depends on tips, then fair enough, the tip is a genuine gesture.
Tipping for the sake of it stinks of pity/embarrassment/egotism ... Especially reading some of the reasons on here.

As for nurses. Yes it is s 3 year degree. And wiping a shitty arse is exactly the same if you got a degree or not.
And it's worth noting - a nurse is not allowed to accept tips.

I never ever tip in UK. We have a minimum wage structure and decent welfare system & tipping just encourages low wages.
You're not rewarding the service staff you're sudbsidising the owners business, should be ashamed of yourselves.....

The last time we had this topic a STW said his daughter could reach £80 in tips on a Sunday(?) day shift.

Its not hardwork- its warm/indoors, you get a meal and it pays a wage.

By comparison working in the kitchen IS hard. Carrying a tray, a drink and handing someone a pin machine isn't really worthy of a decent return yet here in the UK we seem to think they are hard done by.

I earnt £30 for working 5pm-11pm and circa £30 (min). Thats back in the early 90's. By comparison working in Woolies (mid 90's onwards) the wage was £2.50 an hour at the time.

Re the US - serving staff are exempt from minimum wage legislation, so they get way below min wage. The tips are their actual salary. If you don't tip you are docking their wages. It would be like going into the kitchen, taking $5 out of the chef's wallet, waving it in their face and saying "that's for being crap!"

You could argue for performance related pay but that would be a little rich for people who spend however many minutes a day at work posting on here. Plus these things are often not in the waiter's control.

That waitress might be a struggling single mother trying to feed her kids, or someone from a disadvantaged background trying to put themselves through college for a better life.

Yes, it's a stupid situation, and banning it might be a better idea but don't make a political point at these people's expense.

The situation in the UK is somewhat different.

That waitress might be a struggling single mother trying to feed her kids, or someone from a disadvantaged background trying to put themselves through college for a better life.

Arent we all working to pay the bills and have a better life though? Going to restaurants is seen as a treat. No one eats in them 7 days a week.

The argument is [b][u]rewarding[/u][/b] good service AND food not simply adding a chunk as you think there might be an myth behind the story.

Try working in a warehouse- lots of people do that, cold, damp, lifting work yet they see no tips and many of them will be struggling parents or trying to pay bills.

Coming round full circle, waiting staff is part of the eating out process, the whole experience. They should add to and bind the experience of the ambience and food. As such you then reward them.

If the food was late (they should pick up on this and warn you), the food arrived cold (they should be mini-fighters for your corner), full of charm, and energy. Then wow- they've wowed you. Reward that person!

I love good customer service. In Booths supermarket the staff tend to be great and love to talk, I love having a laugh with people in the coffee shop etc etc. They are there to make you feel good and vice versa.

Yes, so why not help each other out? If I can afford to eat out I'm doing ok; if someone is waiting tables they might well not be.

There's a good chance it's that person's second job. Work in a factory all day then an hour at home and back out til 11pm. Because that's often the only way.

The argument is rewarding good service AND food.

You're not just paying the illustrated price for the food, you're paying for it to be cooked and delivered to your table...

If the food is good, and the service is good, and you feel that the kitchen / service staff deserve financial praise then tip them.
If the food is adequate then don't bother, as a former (thankfully) employee and employer in the industry I'd rather customers told me where my staff were going wrong than leave an unjustified tip.

Try working in a warehouse

Yes but that person will be making at least minimum wage. Then waiter will not.

I am talking about the US here. Your arguments make more sense in the UK.

I'd rather customers told me where my staff were going wrong than leave an unjustified tip.

This allover- if you dont know why your business is slowing you dont know how to remedy it. Grumbling 'yes it was lovely thanks' but then never going back because it was 'ok' but not great kills restaurants.

isn't the problem that a "few quid over the hourly wage" is actually anything up to £5K a year in income that isn't taxed or declared?n When 20-25% of the total income is undeclared isn't that as much of a moral issue as someone earning £40K but failing to declare the income from their buy to let?

"there is a hombre with the vast cojones we like to see. We love and respect this man, because of his firm no tipping policy"?

Genuine LOL 🙂

^genuine internet hardman posted that. We should carry on tipping even for bad service apparently as the waitress is having a bad day so we need to suck it up.

I tip (most of the time), but TBH I don't like it.
It's just a method for the facility owners not to pay their staff a decent wage. If we all stopped giving tips, maybe pay would improve for those in the industry?

We should carry on tipping even for bad service apparently as the waitress is having a bad day

Yeah, this is what's called 'compassion'. It's something that many humans have and is generally considered to be a good thing.

It's just a method for the facility owners not to pay their staff a decent wage.

This is entirely correct, but trying to effect change by stopping tipping just hurts the most vulnerable. Like most free market/right wing/tory ideas.

Anyone else like to tipsily hide coins under plates and glasses so that the waiter/ress gets a few nice surprises clearing the table after you've left?

Anyone else like to tipsily hide coins under plates and glasses so that the waiter/ress gets a few nice surprises clearing the table after you've left?

I find notes work better for this.

Thought I'd never get rid of those rupees I'd had hanging round since 2003!

I did have to ask for a tip to be removed from a bill once, at an all you can eat Pan-Asian banquet place. We were shown to our tables, brought a round of drinks, and thereafter it was serve yourself.

14 of us paying I think £13 a head, bill plus drinks came to about £240 and they then added a 'discretionary' service charge for parties of 6 or more of 12.5% = £30

£30 for a tray of drinks, and then serve yourself. I think not......

We left the guy who'd served us a tenner in his hand which he seemed fine about.

Will only tip if we are in a large party creating a bit of a hassle or if the service goes above and beyond.

Carrying my steak from the kitchen to my table and fetching me a drink is not exceptional service.

Will also leave a bit of shrapnel on the table if I dont want a pocket full of small change.

Mandatory tipping is getting ridiculous over here. Just another way for people to try and cash in. I've worked in a number of restraunts over the years and was never even allowed to accept tips.

As said before minimum wage, you don't tip your bus driver etc etc.

Having spent the last few months in London, service charges also royally **** me off.

Will also leave a bit of shrapnel on the table if I dont want a pocket full of small change.

I believe the official term for this is 'Compassionate Conservatism'

I tend to just round up to the nearest note, throw on table and run away. Not because I am loaded, but that I cannot stand people getting their phones out, arguing about how many drinks they have consumed etc.

So on average you tip £2.50? No wonder you run away.

This is entirely correct, but trying to effect change by stopping tipping just hurts the most vulnerable.

Quite right, but we need to be careful not to sleep walk into a similar situation to merica

I think the key difference is waiting staff not being exempt from minimum wage. If that ever changes we will be straight there.

Bloody Hell,

I never realised eating out was such a confrontational activity.

WTF. Theres a fair bit of trolling going on here. When have waitering staff been 'vunerable'?

They work in a warm, clean environment. They are paid to smile, carry food from the kitchen and take the plates away.

The stressful work happens in the kitchen and the boss/manager balancing the books, trying to get staff to turn up for work.

You enjoy the service- its not bloody hard! You dont tip because you might think they are abused/starving/have two single kids at home/get onto the pole and dance for men.

some people on STW seem to jump three steps ahead and really do struggle with the concept of action and reward.

Stop watching Hollywood films dudes.

Waiter/waitress starts off with a tip. How they treat us determines how much if that tip is left at the end of the meal.

Once had a stand up row with a waiter who was the rudest person I've ever met. We waited ages, he was surly and not at all welcoming. When the bill came there was a 'discretional' service charge which I asked to be removed. At which point he went postal. Yelling at customers in the middle of a restaurant is clearly the best way to get a tip.

IMO tipping a barman makes much more sense than tipping a waiter/waitress. Leave me a couple of pounds on the bar or buy me a drink and you'll find you somehow get your drinks quicker when it's busy. Tip = better service. I don't neglect other customers, far from it, but if I know what you're drinking it's not hard for me to pour one whilst I'm serving another customer.

Hora, are you sure you've worked as a waiter? It can be bloody stressful at times. Sure, working in a kitchen can be mega stressful (I've done it), but at least you don't have to deal with arsehole customers. Are you an arsehole customer?

The fact is that in most UK restaurants, service is not included in your bill. Tipping is simply paying what is due, and I always leave at least 10% in cash, unless the service has been very poor. If the food was bad, I would send it back or ask for it to be taken off the bill.

Comparing waiting staff to toilet cleaners is self-justifying whataboutery.

That said, I much prefer the French system where service is included.

hora - Member

Stop watching Hollywood films dude

My girlfriend once tipped £5 in a self-serve buffet.

i wasnt happy

Are you an arsehole customer?

You've never been to school. Read one of my earlier comments. If its proving difficult comeback to me and I'll help you out. Hint: Its bottom of page 3.

The fact is that in most UK restaurants, service is not included in your bill.

What do you mean by that?
Do you mean the owner hasn't accounted for staff wages? or do you mean the staff bonus?
or something else?

When have waitering staff been 'vunerable'?

Since they are the amongst the poorest paid workers in the lowest skilled jobs.

Remember I am talking about the US here. Sure, some table staff will be students looking for a bit of pocket money, but some will be trying to make a precarious living. They are the vulnerable ones.

The fact is that in most UK restaurants, service is not included in your bill.

This is just not true. Might be true in the states but a UK restaurant has to by law pay all it's staff at least the minimum wage. The waiter/waitress has been paid out of the money the owner makes from the bill, ergo the 'service' (whatever the hell that actually means) has been included in your bill. In the states it appears the workers in a restaurant are not always actually paid by the restaurant owner (or if they are, not very much) so in that case what you state is true.

Remember I am talking about the US here

Since they are the amongst the poorest paid workers in the lowest skilled jobs.

Surely you mean McDonalds, Burger King etc, warehouse staff, shop staff, call centre staff or all industries etc etc in that comment then.

None of the above are on fantastic salaries. None of the above can add significantly percentagewise to their daily wage. Yet most of the above are expected to serve, clean and smile as part of the wage that they are paid.

Even if waiters were paid only minimum wage- that wage is paid to them to do the job, carry a plate, smile. Why should someone in McDonalds be treated different in your calculations?

For the record I've worked in a restaurant, McDonalds, Woolworths and various warehouses. At no point did I feel vunerable or taken advantage of.

Im out now but the next time this topic comes around I'll be sure to post again.

This is just not true.

It is absolutely true. I know this because the bill says so.

What do you mean by that?
Do you mean the owner hasn't accounted for staff wages? or do you mean the staff bonus?
or something else?

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

Thats why you wouldn't tip at McDonalds or at places where you queue up to order food at the bar.

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

Again, not factually correct.

So why is more expensive than those places then?

I know this because the bill says so.

You are a complete mug. 🙂

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

That's not the case in the UK
Employers must pay the minimum wage and are not allowed to make it up with tips accrued.
So why would the restaurant not include the cost of waiters in the bill?

You are a complete mug.

No, just capable of reading what is written.

So why would the restaurant not include the cost of waiters in the bill?

Convention, on the understanding that the customer will pay for that cost unless there is a good reason not to.

OK then
Let's say you tip the waiter a fiver, given that service isn't included.
How does the restaurant owner get hold of that fiver in order to pay for the service?

No, just capable of reading what is written.

Go on, explain, it'll be entertaining!

The person plonking the food down in front of you in a UK restaurant will be being paid at least the UK minimum wage by the owner (unless they are the owner in which case they might be making a loss for the privilege) out the money you pay for the actual cost of the food as written on the menu. Anything you leave as a tip is to supplement their wage above that minimum because you think they went above and beyond, or you are worried about getting cock cheese in your soup next time you go.

Go on, explain, it'll be entertaining!

It says "service not included". I can't make it any simpler for you.

Since they are the amongst the poorest paid workers in the lowest skilled jobs.
Surely you mean McDonalds, Burger King etc, warehouse staff, shop staff, call centre staff or all industries etc etc in that comment then.

Even if waiters were paid only minimum wage- that wage is paid to them to do the job, carry a plate, smile

I really don't think you are reading carefully. Please do so.

I am talking about the US, where waiting staff are paid BELOW minimum wage. The tips are there to bring them up to that MINIMUM level. If you don't tip, they make under minimum wage.

Re the vulnerable - it's not different, no. All poorly paid low skilled workers are vulnerable (that's why I used the word amongst).

You do not normally get the chance to tip anyone else - that's the difference.

If you can help one person, then do so - if you cannot help others, that's no reason not to help out those you can.

I am talking about the US, where waiting staff are paid BELOW minimum wage. The tips are there to bring them up to that MINIMUM level. If you don't tip, they make under minimum wage

We know you are but the thread is about tipping in the UK not the US and mixing the two practices doesn't make sense.

OK then
Let's say you tip the waiter a fiver, given that service isn't included.
How does the restaurant owner get hold of that fiver in order to pay for the service?

They don't. Instead, your well-fed behind is subsidised by a poorly-paid employee.

Dont think convention has anything to do with it. Its a free choice to tip or not. I tip based on how I feel about the service and food I receive. I dont feel compelled one way or the other

Couple of quid per head (usually just me and the wife) for a low key lunch or dinner.

10%+ for a special meal

Zero if the food & service were crap

If you can help one person, then do so - if you cannot help others, that's no reason not to help out those you can.

As well as quite a few others on here, I think you'll find his attitude to 'help' is the same as this gentleman's.....

[img] ?6[/img]

😛

They don't. Instead, your well-fed behind is subsidised by a poorly-paid employee.

It may be well fed but I'm not far of minimum wage myself, I don't accepts tips BTW - before you start offering 😉

Dont think convention has anything to do with it. Its a free choice to tip or not. I tip based on how I feel about the service and food I receive. I dont feel compelled one way or the other

Similarly, I don't feel compelled to pay for my main course if it's crap. I would ask for a replacement or for it to be taken off the bill.

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

You can't possibly think that this is true.

It's so obviously complete cobblers, you have to be trolling 🙂

If it's true, then I should be paying my tip direct to the owner, because they are the ones paying the waiter his wage every week, so they need the tips to make up their losses surely.

I don't feel compelled to pay for my main course if it's crap

Hmm but then you've got the problem that people's definition of crap varies enormously.

We know you are but the thread is about tipping in the UK not the US and mixing the two practices doesn't make sense.

Well I pointed it out for the benefit of those who may travel to the US and take their hard-nosed tipping policy with them - and people did not seem aware.

However Hora then started arguing with me about it, and seemed unaware that I was making a distinction. Hence the clarification directed at him.

Hmm but then you've got the problem that people's definition of crap varies enormously.

True, but some things are pretty easy to define, like a well-cooked steak when I've asked for it rare.

I can only remember complaining twice in restaurants. On one occasion (overdone steak), I had a replacement main course, on another (very long wait), they discounted the bill. Neither problem was the fault of the waiting staff so I still left a tip.

If it's true, then I should be paying my tip direct to the owner, because they are the ones paying the waiter his wage every week, so they need the tips to make up their losses surely.

You mean a bit like [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scandal-of-firms-that-dodge-paying-the-minimum-wage-8580941.html ]this?[/url]

[i]The Low Pay Commission, which recommends minimum wage levels, estimates that more than 100,000 adults receive below the legal rates – and the actual figure is probably considerably higher because of under-reporting of the problem. The TUC believes that between 250,000 and 300,000 employees could be unlawfully denied the minimum wage.

Although it is supposed to be illegal to pay staff below those levels, employers are using a variety of ruses to sidestep the rates. They include: restaurants assuming staff will receive a certain sum in tips and deducting that cash from their pay packets[/i]

Lol - subtle trolling Molgrips 😀