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What I take from that @stcolin is that when you didn't paly footie your knee got slowly better, despite the confusing diagnoses until you started to play again, and it went back to hurting...There's lesson buried in there somewhere I'm sure.
My right knee told me to give playing football and rugby. Miss it like nuts but I've had find other stuff that I get competitive and intense. Swimming, Zwift, MTB, road biking, various sports centre classes, can be good fun. But of course not a real substitute. Age I'm afraid.
Sorry, I should clarify here. The current issue is not my left knee pain as before. It's my right quad that is giving me grief along with the sciatica in my left leg. The knee pain is much improved. I don't attribute all this to football. But I get that years of playing will be contributing at this stage.
" I went back to 5 aside, took it super easy, and this was grand for a few weeks. Proper warm ups and cool downs. Then, last week, everything seems to let go. Back square one. I’m walking like John Wayne today."
Pack in the bleedin football! There are reasons pro footballers nearly always pack it in before their forties. They get hurt more easily, recovery takes longer., etc, etc....
41 is not old, but it is old for a fotballer. There's no need to give up doing stuff; just do different stuff. And stretch!
41 is not old, but it is old for a footballer.
Indeed. Contact sports are not good for anyone's health, but the idea that you're past it in your forties isn't true.
Never a footballer, but had to give up rugby when I was still recovering from the last match by the time the next one came around, plus as you slip down the leagues, the refereeing gets worse and the games become less controlled, open season for silly injuries and collapsing scrums.
Why not try management, or refereeing? No-one kicks the shit out of the ref, do they?
OP, only read you 1st post. get a ****ing grip mate.
from what i read ,all the things you have are just little niggles that need a rest, or some easy riding to keep you ticking until the settle down.
no way would i be throwing the towel in with such injuries.
15 year ago in started with heart issues. these were sorted 10 year ago with open heart surgery. issues have returned.
in the last 10 years i have had, a umbilical hernia mended, then a operation for a ankle fusion, caused by a old rugby injury. then to top it off, i had a hip replacement, and i am currently waiting for the 2nd one doing.
and through all this i have never once considered packing it all in.
just moved my goal posts now and again.
bought a ebike 12 years ago. got rid once ticker was sorted.
couldnt ride proper offroad with ****ed joints, so i started riding gravel stuff.
couldnt ride fast anymore because of heart issues, who cares ?? i can and still do ride 100 miles every so often, just slowly.
no surrender mate. or keep on keeping on.
I haven’t read all of the posts but if it hasn’t already been said; running, football, cycling of any kind all have a very limited range of motion. I think this can lead to big imbalances.
A few years ago a had bad problems with my back after a full summer riding DH most days. I’ve since got back into stretching and weights (including straight legged deadlifts) and no more back issues.
41 aint old.
but it could be old enough to consider reigning it in a bit, especially with contact sports.
Ebikes have their place, I bought mine as a toy, but it was invaluable in helping me to get back riding again after i fell (at work) and broke my leg a few years ago (aged 49, I’m now 55). My recovery has been slow and difficult, but I’m now back to the point i can ride a normal bike again. <br />don’t automatically dismiss anything that can help.
I'm 'only' 42 but two shoulder surgeries on the same shoulder has stopped me playing racket sports for the last 5 years.
This year, having had a go at some yoga and pilates on holiday I think I could probably have a go again, the increase in both mobilty and strength is ridiculous. Considering that previously i'd struggled to get my right arm above shoulder height without a lot of clicking and sticking i'm now not far off a handstand.
There's no quick fix for getting older, but you seem to have given yourself a binary choice between giving up completely or carrying on as you are and hoping that this time, something will be different?
Maybe I'm not being realistic then.
Pilates is top of my list now. Not many classes near me, but I'm hopeful I'll find something.
My other half has her pilates classes online.
Oh, I had to give up running (which I really miss) and football (doesn't really bother me) many, many years ago.
interesting thread, Op, your comments about being realistic is spot on, and a post half a page up from ton is similar to what I nearly wrote yesterday. I'm in my late 50's have had prostate cancer, a lifechanging shoulder injury and many other health issues, associated with heart problems, and joints.
I don't do much mtb riding these days, though when I do it's on my Levo SL. I have 2 nice gravel bikes that get used a load, a road bike that sees regular 50 - 80 mile rides, and an eroad bike for rest days 🙂 I swim 2k at least once, often twice a week, and do regular yoga classes at the gym.
We have a dog, and i do most of the walks, 4.5k so far today, before work and at lunchtime. Evening walk will take that to about 7km.
I can't run anymore, infact haven't since I was about your age, due hypermobile knees that have seen 3 sets of surgeries.
I suggest you look at adapting what you do for fun and exercise, ideally making the 2 happen at the same time. the well known adage of use it or lose it cannot be escaped
I think all of us if we are active suffer from a whole stack of negativity when we get injured. Every time something goes wrong with one part or other of my body it's the end of days.
But you will get better even if you have to recalibrate slightly. This I found after breaking my back and trust me there were some dark days.
One thing that I see at all ages is that people have an unrealistic time frame for recovery from problems.
Commonly with viral infections and soft tissue injuries.
Interesting thread. I've been having back issues for 15+ years with some completely clear spells and some stopping me from exercising. Latest spell has been pretty much continuous for 2 years despite regular massages, physio, stretching etc. Got an MRI earlier in the year which identified a bulging disc that wasn't touching the nerve and nothing there that explained any of the upper back and shoulder pain.
Recovery was identified as more of exactly the same as I'd been doing which left me pretty dejected and absolutely ready to throw in the towel but I picked up more physio, swimming, changing stretching routing, etc. Didn't change much so I randomly bought a book about back pain by Dr Sarno, The Mindbody Prescription, on reading it my pain pretty much went away. There have definitely been real pains in my back caused by actual injuries and bad posture but my back and brain combo have also pretty much got into the habit of believing things will hurt - going out on my hardtail would trigger weeks of pain, it was genuine pain but triggered much more mentally than physically. With a Saturday spent reading I went from Friday unable to hit a golf ball as I couldn't swing above my shoulders taking cocodamol and naproxym to Sunday beating my mates with a full swing and probably 4 paracetamol and 2 ibuprofen in total since the end of September (that would have been a good day for most of this year). I can now feel the pain pulsing in the usual areas if I'm in a stressful meeting and switch it off with a think about why it is trying to flare. Tried riding my hardtail again and halfway round the usual pain flared massively making me want to stop but saying out loud that I knew it wasn't real and it cleared as quickly as it came on.
Not saying there's a magic fix in there but as someone else posted about the brain amplifying real pain levels if your GP has ruled out any real underlying issues having a look into the mental side if stress could be amplifying issues could be worthwhile.
I'd also signed up for physio led pilates before I sorted things out and finding it really beneficial for a base to get properly back into training, it's kick started lunchtime training sessions again and the pain from squats today definitely isn't a trick from my brain!!
And look at what you're eating too!
Thought I would update this - sitting looking out at the miserable weather.
Had another scan on my knee, 2 years after the last one. I have been having a lot of knee pain recently, so wanted to get it checked out again. Well, the consultant was quite surprised to see my knee in such a state. Pretty much no cartilage on the inside of the left knee, but the outside also showing signs of wear. So, I can't have a partial replacement, and I'm far beyond any minor surgery. So, absolutely no running or football ever again, not up for question. That's been tough to accept, I thought in the back of my mind I could. I'm currently waiting to have a knee brace fitted which will need to be worn pretty much all the time. It will help re-align my knee and kick the can down the road. He said I'll probably need a new knee within 10 years.
To add to all this, fitness is definitely at it's worst ever. Confidence is at its lowest. I only ride my local trails as I'm scared to ride anything else. I've put on weight, me eating is terrible, and sleep is getting worse.
The only positive I can take now is that I can spend all my time cycling. The consultant encouraged it. I went bike shopping yesterday as I wanted to replace my road bike with something more comfortable and versatile, so I've jumped on the gravel bank wagon. No decision yet, but I might have something quite special arriving soon.
All perfect timing coming out of summer.
So glad to hear you can get out a ride. The rest is shit of course. Stay strong.
I don't know how old you are but knee and hip replacements are done young in France if needed and give people their lives back. I sometimes ski with a Gendarme who had two hip replaements in his late 40s and another triathlon club mate has had his knee replaced in his 60s. I ride horse with a guy who has just turned 70 and is the middle of both hip and knee replacements. The knee replacement has got him back on a horse and he's having the hip replacement to get back on a bike.
I'm riding my new to me cross bike more and more as it's so versatile. Even the gravel tyres ride well enough on road. I do have spare wheels with road tyres. Also saves me taking out the vintage road bikes too much. 34x34 bottom gear and it goes up any hill. On the way out to my road routes I can take a farm track rather than the 40mph busy main road.
Good luck with it and cycling is best for arthritis and related injuries.
I'm 42 next month. All too aware of my mortality. I feel like I'm 61!
Crap news generally and for your other sports, but cycling is a godsend for me, all be it on an ebike now.
@stcolin I'd be interested to hear how you get on with the brace and which one?
I was due to get an off loader brace before my partial replacement, but in the end the op date came through first so it never happened. I've been using a cheap one with my current knackered knee while I'm waiting to see orthopedics which helps a bit on pavement/tarmac, but stops me bending my knee enough to clear grass and minor lumps and bumps off piste.
It's not sounding like I'll be seen before Easter 2025 at the earliest with the waiting lists. Xray has confirmed medial moderate OA , so likely another partial for me to complete the set. Just having to manage it as best I can and take paracetamol, naproxen and occasionally tramadol in the meantime.
Hope you enjoy your new arrival
im 60 in a few weeks and feel better than I did in my 30s or 40s. Sorted my diet, work stress (teaching), and improved my exercise regime. I’ve learnt that some injuries just take longer to heal, so I rest, & have convinced myself that a low geared single speed has helped massively….football when I was younger was responsible for the worst & longest injuries…..it’s possible to turn things around
Time on a bike is life extending. I hope you enjoy your new ride. Everyone I know who runs or plays football has knee trouble. But they so often “find” cycling and never look back. I accept the weather is a little damp. But NEW BIKE!!! Just take it easy.
Thanks for the replies. Purchase not completed yet (wondering if I will be able to sell the road bike to fund) but either way I need to ride much more. Once a week isn't helping anything. Strava metrics don't help, that fitness graph is falling faster than my fitness!
Will report back on the knee brace. I'm a bit skeptical about it, but I'll try anything that is going to help me out. The hamstrings haven't been as crampy as before, but that's probably down to not exercising much. They always get worse when I exercise.
I could have written your post StColin, except i'm mid 50's. I waited over a year to get seen properly, had physio in the meantime but like you while it was strengthening the muscles around, the medial cartilage doesn't regrow once it's gone and so the bone on bone never went away, and I'm almost down to that.
They fitted me with an Ossur unloader brace which I have to say has been brilliant for pain relief, although it is quite bulky under trousers and also quite sweaty and uncomfortable and gave me some sores / zits where the straps go - so I can't wear it all the time, but has definiteky improved for walking and whatever. It makes no difference for cycling for me but it's ages since I offroaded properly using knees as shock absorbers, so that's not a definite answer
https://www.ossur.com/en-gb/bracing-and-supports/knee/unloader-one
My next issue is that stuck between a rock and a hard place, of when to wear the brace, I don't wear it all day and without my gait is poor (I limp) and it's had the effect, as the consultant said it possibly would, of now I have quite bad hip pain on the other side. But that's the way of it, with degenerative arthritis and a lifetime of sport, and he said a hip replacement is a much better op if there's a choice, so I see that in my nearish future.
By that - he said knee replacement is 15+ years behind the hips, which they've been doing for ages now with almost total success: better technology, more experience, and it is a proper ball and socket joint. He said they'll get better with knees but the longer I can wait the better - so experience grows and also bluntly, chance of it outlasting me.
Last point on the latter - as I asked him, I could have something else horrible in 5-10 years that limits me, or kills me, so isn't it better that rather than kick can down the road to a point where it has to be done, why not aim for QoL now and to hell with the uncertain future....but his hands are tied by guidelines and stats, if I want to ship off to Lithuania and pay for a new knee and hip tomorrow it would be caveat emptor, so to speak.
It's funny , opinions are definitely divided on life span of knee/revisions and QoL.
I had my first partial replacement just over 6 years ago at 48. No suggestion of being too young, much suggestion of getting it done for my QoL with family and to keep me in work, revision if needed in future, possibly to a full replacement, but no suggestion it will only last X years...
Roll on 6+ years and another health board and I'm apparently too young, too heavy, too whatever...
My wrist orthopedic consultant (more OA there) said last week that essentially they just haven't got enough financial or staff resources, so just move the goal posts and change the reasoning as necessary, the ' technology' is fine.
I'm 54 now and would have my other knee done tomorrow if I could, the improvement in QoL after the first one was great. If I had £16k+ to go private I would. Struggling to walk, sleep, do daily stuff and family activity is just shit. As is said I could get knocked over by a bus tomorrow, better to enjoy life while you have it.
I think my QoL has been damaged more due to my anxiety, rather than the last 6 years of ongoing injury.
It's comforting to know that I can overcome this, I just need the right attitude.
Gravel bikes are great. Ride them leisurely and enjoy getting out on the bike without the need for technical or difficult trails. Rebuild your confidence.
Strength work has hugely improved how susceptible I am to niggly injuries. I struggled with my back for years until i started lifting weights regularly (for strength, not henchness!)
Also just keeping moving whenever possible even in a gentle way (e.g. walking regularly) really helps I think.
IANAD. Just my experience.
That bloody knee of yours, eh?
Shout me anytime you wanna do gravel or MTB riding anyway mate.
just to return to a point mentioned earlier - do yoga!
I too, was stiff as a plank in my early 40s. I hadn't been able to touch my toes for 30 years, could barely get past my knees, just assumed I wasn't one of these flexible people. Then I was told to do yoga by a physio due to a back issue that was causing me all kinds of grief. So much grief that I did Adriene's Yoga for Hips and Lower Back every day. (It's a good one because it's mostly sitting or lying down - far less exertion than the MTB one someone posted earlier). Within a month I could touch my toes. Within two months I could get my knuckles onto the floor. Being stiff isn't something you need to be stuck with!
There's a limit obviously, most of us will never be able to pretzel ourselves like the Youtube instructors. But I've found it really worth doing.
I see doris5000 suggests Yoga, for me it was Pilates that has helped. This time last year in my mid-late 40s I felt like a pensioner. Most joints, especially my left knee, were hurting and I was hobbling around the place. I'd given up running and was toying with giving up biking too.
I took a punt on a local Pilates class and within a month I was feeling human again. It's fixed the general aches and pains, I feel I'm much more in control of my joints (if that makes sense) and it's even fixed an old shoulder injury. It's about a year since I started going (once a week) and it's been the best thing I've done for general well-being. I'm loving the bike and have even started gently running again.
I suspect years of not bothering to stretch after exercise, or just focusing on the main muscles had left my joints in a knackered state - Pilates is a long way from being a high intensity form of exercise, but it seems to have reawakened all the muscles and ligaments controlling everything.
Def worth giving it a try.
That bloody knee of yours, eh?
I know mate, it what it is. Must get a ride together soon, been too long.
@doris5000 I have tried yoga/pilates several times. I can just about touch the top of shins right now. In fact, I've watched that video before. Anything which involves contracting my hamstring will put them into cramp. Instantly. I went to a physio for this very problem and nothing solves it. I tell you, some of the cramps I've had have been the worst pain I've ever had, and that includes slipping the same disc twice. This is what I really struggle with. The process of building strength is so difficult. Always one step forwards and two steps back.
I see doris5000 suggests Yoga, for me it was Pilates that has helped
I've just seen that I posted similar at the top of page 2, but I was only 2 weeks in to doing Pilates at the time. Interesting (to me) to see what I posted at the time 🙂
I think my QoL has been damaged more due to my anxiety, rather than the last 6 years of ongoing injury.
Out of interest do you discuss this with the consultant - or is the focus on the "mechanical" aspect of the injury? Not sure if its a "man thing" or just we all bow down to the "doctor is an expert in knees not minds" thinking but one of the drivers for the docs doing particular surgery on my better half's foot was not the foot pain, but the indirect consequences on ability to exercise. I've been quite impressed with the team looking after my daughter who has a long term condition that they are not focussed purely on the medicine but on making sure the condition doesn't define her, and how to support the "whole person". They know how important excercise if for body and mind and seem pleased when people want to do it rather than trying to prise a fatty off the sofa.
If the knees really are knackered and you need some variation to cycling, perhaps try something totally different: kayak? paddleboard? old wooden rowing boat (not a racing type with a sliding seat - more a "local pond" type - or if you are near the coast there is a resurgence in small community "gig" rowing), wild swimming... if football was about team sport / camaraderie then many of those things can be done solo or in groups but there's other less obviously exerting sports like bowls or curling where you'd probably be considered a youngster, or if you can still walk reasonably a friends wife in her 40s has taken up walking football after repeated running injuries. Perhaps early 40s feels too young to be going to these "old people" sports but if you miss social side of playing then it might be worth exploring.
Really interesting post.
One of the things I really miss about football was the social side, the camaraderie. I trained with the same team for about 10 years, twice a week with a game on Saturdays. I've become much more introvert over the last 10 years and perhaps I have really suffered because of it. Cycling has become almost 100% solo for me now. Deep down I struggle with that.
I never mentioned the mental side of the injury. It seems stupid to say that I feel that all I stand for as an individual are my hobbies, and when a big chunk of that is taken away or removed altogether, it has a big toll on me mentally. I'm a very withdrawn person now because of my anxiety.
I've never thought about another social type sport tbh. Cycling and football have always been the ones. Running was part of football of course, but I only ended up running as a hobby really through meeting my girlfriend.
FYI, I am awful at swimming, I wouldn't be drawn to watersport stuff.
I never mentioned the mental side of the injury. It seems stupid to say that I feel that all I stand for as an individual are my hobbies, and when a big chunk of that is taken away or removed altogether, it has a big toll on me mentally. I’m a very withdrawn person now because of my anxiety.
This is huge; I'm somewhere near that myself. Not anxiety, my big issue is chronic fatigue (aka Long Covid). All my hobbies and fun activities have been whipped out from under me - making music, playing the drums, DJing, going to the pub, riding my bike, having a social life, going for hikes with MrsDoris, etc etc. And I could stick it out for a while, just ploughing through it by looking forward to the day when I would be better and could get back into all that stuff. But it's been 4.5 years now and it's starting to look more like I'm living in denial, watching my life drift away. I was 40 when I got COVID. I turned 45 last week and I'm still not better. Will I still be twiddling my thumbs waiting when I hit 50?
So I'll start seeing a counsellor soon. And, based on absolutely no experience whatsoever, I'm wondering if that might help you too?
I've given up on seeing a counsellor. Have tried many times in the past (10+ years) and it didn't work for me for whatever reason. Maybe I need to try again. But I hate to be a burden, it's been such a long time since I broached the subject with my GP.
I have a friend with long covid much like yourself. He has really struggled. Hope things improve for you. He bought a nice road e-bike to help with getting back out again.
I never mentioned the mental side of the injury. It seems stupid to say that I feel that all I stand for as an individual are my hobbies, and when a big chunk of that is taken away or removed altogether, it has a big toll on me mentally. I’m a very withdrawn person now because of my anxiety.
I know it seems stupid to say this stuff, but honestly you probably won't be the first person to have had that sort of conversation with them, and you certainly won't be the stupidest thing they see/hear today. It MIGHT just make a difference to the approach they take, or where you sit on a waiting list. I've no idea if they would try to push the drugs/counselling route but you can say no.
I’ve never thought about another social type sport tbh. Cycling and football have always been the ones. Running was part of football of course, but I only ended up running as a hobby really through meeting my girlfriend.
I guess that's the other option is to look for a "hobby" rather than a sport. It won't directly help with the fitness but it might help with the state of mind, social interaction etc. You should be able to find a group of cyclists at almost any fitness / technical level but I've never found it that easy - and if you actually want to enjoy talking to them as well that makes it even harder.
FYI, I am awful at swimming, I wouldn’t be drawn to watersport stuff.
So am I, the idea is usually not to fall in! I tend to gravitate that way so probably not best placed to suggest others, but you certainly won't be alone in being a middle aged man who's been injured out of their "main sport" and now looking for things to fill their time. I dare say there's a whole volunteering for the scouts thread just itching for you to get inquisitive...