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I think what he’s trying to say is that he’s fully aware that I’m a nobhead, as most people who meet me are
I've never met Binners but I think he's a nobhead.
Hope this helps.
"I agree with the mods on this, I thought STW had a policy of not deleting stuff because it encouraged people to think before they posted"
clearly a policy that is working well.
"I’ve never met Binners but I think he’s a nobhead.
Hope this helps."
it does.
I know Binners well enough to understand that he wasn’t being serious so didn’t really pay it much heed TBH.
I see. Racism is ok if some people say it, and not ok if other people say it.
You've really covered yourself in glory today.
I see. Racism is ok if some people say it, and not ok if other people say it.
Nope. Racism is okay as long as it’s aimed at the bad gypsies.
There was a delay as we were discussing whether “pikey” was inherently offensive or whether its use was acceptable in describing this particular group of miscreants. Ie, not all travellers are “pikeys” but this lot were.
Well I suppose not all black people are you know, what's that word?
The worst are those bloody hipster travellers with their old time carnival rides and retro arcades. Swanning in to town twice a year and casually spinning those waltzer cars. Bastards the lot of them.
Considering I've been banned a few times and at least one of those occasions for not getting an edit in on time (swear filter never picked something up) the fact binners is essentially sticking two fingers up to everyone who has taken issue with his idiotic post and the mods seem to think it's too much effort to do their job doesn't sit right with me.
Either apply the rules equally or step aside and let someone do the job who will.
Lol. What if it was someone you didn’t know well? What does that approach to moderation look like to a more casual observer?
I don't know him "well," I've just been reading the forum for several years.
I would imagine that this "approach to moderation" would be completely invisible to a casual observer, you wouldn't have known if I hadn't just told you. In any case, if people want to jump to conclusions despite me explicitly saying something to the contrary then that's their outlook, I don't really care.
please do, I was asking for this back when i was banned 7 months ago
I've emailed you.
Something something racism from several quarters
The point I was trying to clarify - because I didn't know the answer - was whether or not "pikey" was viewed as a racist term and generally unacceptable, or whether it was more analogous to something like "chav."
The Report button is broken if it can only be used once per post, despite there being several reasons for using it. Frankly this sounds like another forum technical fault with a made-up cover story.
And not deleting something because it has since been requoted? It's not been a problem in the past. Use the Search facility for the string "Hitler" if scrolling through two pages of posts is too tedious.
The point I was trying to clarify – because I didn’t know the answer – was whether or not “pikey” was viewed as a racist term and generally unacceptable, or whether it was more analogous to something like “chav.”
I think the rest of us were trying to clarify if jokes about the Holocaust were now acceptable on STW?
I would never joke about the Holocaust, me great grampy died at Dachau.
Broke his neck falling out of a machine gun nest, poor bastard.
I would imagine that this “approach to moderation” would be completely invisible to a casual observer, you wouldn’t have known if I hadn’t just told you.
It's more that some of us are staggered that you believe binners comments to be acceptable.
My step-grandad beat a Nazi to death with a coal shovel (his description of events) during his escape from the Ukraine in the 2nd World War.
He didn’t like travellers/gypsies/pikeys whatever you call them either. Didn’t beat any of them to death with a shovel to my knowledge.
Some people really do spend too much time getting offended on the behalf of others. Lord knows what your blood pressure must be like.
Some people really do spend too much time getting offended on the behalf of others. Lord knows what your blood pressure must be like.
I don't need "others" for me to be offended by racism. I suppose a lack of basic decency is simpler though.
Some people really do spend too much time getting offended on the behalf of others. Lord knows what your blood pressure must be like.
to borrow a phrase
<b>All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.</b>
You are welcome to look the other way
Binners is literally worse than Hitler.
he’s just a fat ignorant prick
Too far.
Binners made an ill judged wisecrack. No need to get personal
You can still be offended without being offensive
Too far.
Binners made an ill judged wisecrack. No need to get personal
You can still be offended without being offensive
Quite. My comment was clearly in jest, if yours was it was too well hidden
I don’t comment on these sorts of threads often but I read the Hitler ‘solution’ post and thought that the thread would be closed and the person who posted it would be banned.
I return to the thread to see that it’s still there and it’s fine to call for a genocide if you know the Mods and you come back and make some desperately unfunny jokes to cover your back.
What a strange set of standards.
Listen from 2 mins if you’re in a rush.
Calm down petal, just some bants isn't it?
Yeah, bants innit.
Totes roflcopters sweet cheeks. ☹️
Well, this is nice....
Lister nails it. Mods - you usually do a great job on the forum but you've missed the point completely this time.
Mattbee I'm the first to pour scorn on virtue signallers and faux outrage but a line of decency has clearly been crossed.
I wonder, if the same comment had been made in the overly camp arsehole thread would people be so quick to defend it?
Are we closing the forum next Tuesday for some diversity training then? I'll bring the Starbucks.
I'm confused... was it the Nazi's that trashed the brewery then... ?
I’m confused… was it the Nazi’s that trashed the brewery then… ?
Don't be daft. ........................ It's the Nazis that are in charge of the forum.
Please let binners be banned for a week or two. I’m sick of him at the moment. We all need a break from him to be honest.
Anyway, where did this racism thing come into a discussion about travellers? Travellers aren't a race.
read back on the thread, it;s not hard just 2 pages back there
Nope. Can't see it. As I've already said, travellers aren't a race.
Nope. Can’t see it. As I’ve already said, travellers aren’t a race...
Hint it's binners calling for a hitler solution to a group of people.
Not classifying a group of people as a race for a means of classification/punishment/persecution is a loophole or technicality. It's not a free pass to be morally repugnant. Much as saying Yorkshire isn't a race but calling for it to be culled is not on.
Just to return to the subject...I knew a couple who bought a pub near Newark in Nottinghamshire; spent a lot of money renovating and recruiting. Good chef, local produce, pleasant bar - all round good effort with growing number of regulars. So far so good.
Newark has long established permanent traveller site - if that's not a contradiction - and school specifically for traveller children. Traveller get togethers and other 'events' occasionally led to street brawls and police involvement.
Couple running pub accept booking for traveller wedding; deposit paid, they arrive and more and more turn up - eat, drink, behave aggressively, threaten staff and don't settle the bill.
Long story short - this leads directly to couple losing business, damages their relationship, deprives locals of good facility and scumbag arseholes walk away denying liability and responsibility.
Same as others ^^^^ I see the majority of travellers as scum because their behaviour earns and justifies that description.
As an aside my mother was Irish and always referred to travellers as 'tinkers' in the Irish derogatory manner. So called travellers were and are despised in Ireland despite their claims of Irish heritage.
Nope. Can’t see it. As I’ve already said, travellers aren’t a race.
This. I did wonder myself, and it's a genuine question I have. If it was about football fans, I can see how some might disagree, but fundamentally isn't the only common denominator here something closer to football fan than it is to "race" (yes, I know..)? It's a way of life choice, surely, not a race thing? Am I being naïve?
A few miles from Flash Towers, there are a couple of modern caravans, and a couple of old horse drawn ones, alongside a lane. A couple of gypsy families. Everyone locally knows that they're there, and everyone knows that they're no trouble for anyone. Always get a cheery hello when I ride past, and I always return it.
They're travellers, but they're not scum.
Sadly, the likes of those in the OP are making life very hard for them.
Nope. Can’t see it. As I’ve already said, travellers aren’t a race.
Ah.. so... its probably ok to kill them all then?
Yay! He got off on a technicality
No harm done 🙄
Gypsies/Travellers are not interchangeable. Gypsies(The Romani) are almost always nice and peaceful, Travellers are a group of predominantly Irish, travelling criminals who have no respect for anyone or anything.
I've had many interactions with both. Gypsies will come and find you and ask if they can stay on your land for a few days, it will be left as they found it. Travellers will break in, stay as long as they want, leave £x k's worth of rubbish and call you a racist if you ask them to take their rubbish with them.
The reason they can get away with it is because they have managed to align themselves with the romani people, as if they are one and the same. THEY ARE NOT!
I do not believe that binners is a bad person.
Even if he does like Greggs and MacDs.
#pray for binners.
Ah.. so… its probably ok to kill them all then?
I've heard they're allergic to fire!
100 years ago travellers could legally camp in many places and were respected and useful parts of the rural economy. for example welcomed on my great great grandparents farm as they had the tools to sharpen knives and scythes that farmer could not afford.
Over the years their lifestyle was slowly made more and more legally impossible - there are not enough legal sites now in the UK for the travellers ( less than half of all travellers can be accomodated on legal site - this means more than half must be illegal every night of the year) - this forces them into illegal behaviour.
force a group out of civil society and then act surprised when that group having been forced into illegallity is some aspects of their lives then ignore laws in other areas.
This is the root cause of the illegal behaviour
Much as saying Yorkshire isn’t a race but calling for it to be culled is not on.
I’m Yorkshire born and bred and wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. May I suggest Barnsley as a starting point just because of the accent.
Barnsley for the chop?
It's unfair to tar all travellers with the same brush.
It's the 99% that give the rest a bad name.
This is the root cause of the illegal behaviour
Rubbish. Saying how other people have treated them is like saying “hey it’s ok that he shot someone cos he was bullied at school”. One does not follow the other.
They could chose to move to sites and when they get moved on leave it tidy. They could choose to be an asset to the local community still. Maybe then they would be welcomed. But no, they CHOOSE (they aren’t forced to, they have plenty of options) to vandalise, litter and rob the places they stay, intimidate, then con and abuse the people around those sites.
They could choose...
They CHOOSE...
I agree with you, on an individual, personal level. But drill deeper. WHY do they make these choices? Why do you and I chose NOT to be antisocial? On a societal level, a population that is ostracised and hated by the society within which it finds itself is Not likely to behave well towards the haters, is it? Just blaming the individuals involved in the bad behaviour is too simplistic. It may be true, they may be acting like arseholes, but to not explore the underlying causes of the arseholery is lazy, Daily Mail thinking.
100 years ago travellers could legally camp in many places and were respected and useful parts of the rural economy.
times move on - 100 years ago I could get a seat on the train when commuting 🙂
ok, provide sites for travellers to camp and move between, but then don't accept this illegality and untouchability they seem to be allowed.
Even when they camp places now, they still seems to trash the areas when they leave, which is their choice to do.
Enforced sterilization would sort it out.
Enforced medical procedures? Nice
“It’s unfair to tar all travellers with the same brush”
say what you like but they’re not short of brushes and tar.
OT: thanks to Cougar for the email. The evidence of my swearing is indeed damning and amusing to read after the fact. As to why I only received the last email informing me of my ban, is still a mystery. The policy, dare I say it, is still backward as this thread alone proves.
The problem with tongue-in-cheek hyperbole posts on issues like this is that it enables and encourages the kind of people who are dumb and prejudiced enough to actually believe that shit (see a couple of posts above).
Probably best to shut it down before any more of them crawl out of their holes.
newrobdob. I did not say it was OK just explaining how the situation came to be. Unless you understand the causes you cannot find a solution. in 100 years this group has gone from being valued members of the rural economy to ostracised outcasts. Why?
Probably best to shut it down before any more of them crawl out of their holes.
Leave it running. It's interesting to see who'll tut-tut when prejudice is voiced against some groups in society but stick their head above the parapet to sling generalisations against this one.
Over the years their lifestyle was slowly made more and more legally impossible – there are not enough legal sites now in the UK for the travellers ( less than half of all travellers can be accomodated on legal site – this means more than half must be illegal every night of the year) – this forces them into illegal behaviour.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-40903474
A lack of legal sites does not justify this sort of behaviour - which admittedly is extreme and I assume/hope not behaviour that most travellers would condone.
The issue seems to be the most visible parts of the Irish Travelling community are those that rock up somewhere they have no right to be and trash the place. It happens far to often to be just a few wrong uns and hence they become victims of the last "acceptable" form of racism in modern British society.
If we are going to suggest a Hitleresque solution can I recommend we get the East Midlands Trains on time?
If we are going to suggest a Hitleresque solution can I recommend we get the East Midlands Trains on time?
Mixing up yer fascist dictators there?
Or were you suggesting* that we should inhumanely pack an ethnic minority onto trains like cattle and ship them somewhere?......... You monster!
*Obviously I know you weren't but this is a demonstration of just how easy it is to take a comment out of context and be deeply offended by it. It's much easier than I thought it would be.
the last “acceptable” form of racism in modern British society
Woah there, we still have gingers.
Travellers aren’t a race.
Yes they are:
The courts have said that Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers are protected against race discrimination because they’re ethnic groups under the Equality Act.
This thread shows how quickly and easily an ugly mob mentality breaks out. One person says something undeniably racist and offensive; this is permitted, because he's a mate of the moderators; this tacit approval of the gives a licence for lots more to come out of the woodwork.
I used to like coming here, but not any more. I guess I'll have to do some work instead.
"I used to like coming here, but not any more. I guess I’ll have to do some work instead"
IF YOU DONT LIKE IT WHY DONT YOU BLOODY WELL GO HOME THEN.
(jokes)
Probably best to shut it down before any more of them crawl out of their holes.
Mornington Crescent.
I hear the Daily Mail is refusing to allow links to STW from their site as the views expressed here are too obnoxious for their readership.
Perhaps you could tell us that amusing anecdote regarding Scottish Highlanders again? That should make them feel at home.
Quite surprised that the mods edited out the word "pikey" but left the remainder of the sentence untouched, completely missing the point.
It's a useless edit as few people here are stupid. I'm not offended by the word pikey, but I do think that displaying both crass ignorance and making blatantly racist comments should be dealt with appropriately.
The point I was trying to clarify – because I didn’t know the answer – was whether or not “pikey” was viewed as a racist term and generally unacceptable, or whether it was more analogous to something like “chav.”
If it helps to reach a conclusion on this, there's case history where a judge at an employment tribunal ruled that it could constitute racial harassment, and In December 2007, at Lewes Magistrates' Court, Lee Coleman, 28, admitted using racially-aggravated threatening words and behaviour after a row with a nightclub manageress.
He had told her: "I'm not paying you, pikey."
IANAL but I believe the people at the CPS who decide on appropriate charges to go forward to court are, so I'd be inclined to take a lead from that personally.
PS For those "they're not a race" posters - did any of you actually look into that at all before posting, or just made it up from the tops of your heads? As snowy has clarified, and it really isn't hard to discover this with a few seconds on your favourite search engine, yes they are.
So, they're legally defined under the equalities legislation, and people have been charged and convicted for racial offences for using the word. To be honest I'm struggling to understand how the mods needed much of a debate on this one.
EDIT: Just to be clear
..whether or not “pikey” was viewed as a racist term and [s]generally unacceptable[/s] therefore in breach of equalities law, with potential criminal liability for its use..
FTFY
I give up.
Will everyone be happier if we just delete this thread? Or is that just going to spark a meta-argument about us covering things up or censorship or some fabricated mince about bias?
Please God, make it stop!
Please delete it and ban me if you like. I'll go voluntarily before any more sheets need changing
Will everyone be happier if we just delete this thread?
I think you need to realign your life goals Cougs.
Making anyone on here happier is probably beyond your reach at this point.
Back to Thwaites again, the BBC North-West news showed a disgracefully misleading report last night; they interviewed a bloke who went sadly on about how upsetting it had all been and how it would take them ages to recover, etc. etc. and they showed some shots of the inside of the brewery, which as the reporter said: "Is now eerily quiet".
That's because the brewery has moved to Masham and the only brewing happening there is some tenants who brew a niche craft beer in small batches. I dislike travellers as much as anybody else but I hate misleading reporting even more.
#fakebrews
PS For those “they’re not a race” posters – did any of you actually look into that at all before posting, or just made it up from the tops of your heads? As snowy has clarified, and it really isn’t hard to discover this with a few seconds on your favourite search engine, yes they are.
So, they’re legally defined under the equalities legislation, and people have been charged and convicted for racial offences for using the word.
Legally defined, maybe. But biologically and sociologically it gets more confused.
http://theconversation.com/human-races-biological-reality-or-cultural-delusion-30419
I think travellers are a race in the sense of the race relations act, but what about people from different regions who can be identified by their accent?
Either way, it is the behaviour of the Thwaites brewery travellers that marks them out, and while they may not be statistically typical it is a common enough behaviour which many people here will have encountered to some degree, even if it is only the rubbish left behind. "'ansome is as 'ansome does" as they say where I come from.
In which case surely having to pour away 1700 pints is going to hit them a lot harder than a big brewer, so actually it's even worse?That’s because the brewery has moved to Masham and the only brewing happening there is some tenants who brew a niche craft beer in small batches.
Will everyone be happier if we just delete this thread
I don't recall the referendum on my thread about folk who come from the village of Nigg 😎.
<p>Do what your conscience tells you but FWIW I got a ban for calling people the C word in the heat of the moment with no chance to apologise. Compare that to this situation where binners still hasn't shown any remorse and is still being an arse about it.</p><p></p><p>I know what I'd do.</p>
In which case surely having to pour away 1700 pints is going to hit them a lot harder than a big brewer, so actually it’s even worse?
1700 litres (not pints) is considerably less than two IBCs and they are probably insured against product losses.
There's no possibility that Travellers are racially different; they are mostly Irish Celts, which is the same as huge numbers of people who consider themselves British. And plenty of proudly British people are experts at working the system, exploiting our competitive guilt and pushing the right buttons at Social Services. Allow me to introduce you to my obese lazy SIL who lives very nicely without doing a day's work, courtesy of the taxpayer.
FFS Cougar are you being deliberately dim or what? The issue here isn't about the term 'pikey', it's about someone calling for the Hitler final solution to deal with them. Even Katie bloody Hopkins got fired from the Daily Wail for using the term but you can't see any issue with it?!
#fakebrews
Bravo Perchy. Bravo...😂😂
I give up.
Will everyone be happier if we just delete this thread?
Not sure who that was aimed at, if anyone in particular, but if my response to your comment is the offending article then apologies, I was trying to be helpful - you flagged uncertainty as to the racistness of "pikey" and I tried to give some evidence based context to help reach a conclusion.
Legally defined, maybe. But biologically and sociologically it gets more confused.
http://theconversation.com/human-races-biological-reality-or-cultural-delusion-30419
I think travellers are a race in the sense of the race relations act, but what about people from different regions who can be identified by their accent?
If we're talking about the acceptability or otherwise of derogatory and insulting language, the legal definition is going to be the most pertinent one, isn't it?
The Race Relations Act was superceded some time ago btw.
you can’t see any issue with it?!
I do see the issue with it, of course. I explained that I ignored it initially because I read it as a joke - which it was - albeit in bad taste. If I thought for a moment the post was remotely serious then it would have been immediately deleted without question and probably a ban issued.
I asked if you guys would prefer that we censor such things, and got back three pages of baseless claims and ranting about the state of moderation instead (and no answer to the question I actually asked).
There's no way I can sanitise this thread now, it'll take me all afternoon. So you've got three options:
1) we delete the thread
2) we close the thread
3) you all just accept that a mistake has been made, put the bloody anti-mod guns down, and we'll know better for next time
Pick one and let's move on, FFS. I'm losing the will to live.
@edlong It wasn't directed at anyone specific and your reply was helpful. Thanks.
Close the thread and ban me for calling Binners a nobhead in direct contravention to the forum rules regarding personal abuse.
I'm prepared to take one for the team.