[Closed] Thwaites Brewery invasion!

By the look of that there is actual breaking and entering, criminal damage and possibly theft arrests possible there? Or just too much effort for very little chance of an outcome?

Should have arrested the ****ing lot of them

Poor darlings,  they have human rights too y'know!

They took over the tesco car park in new malden last week, had to close the store at night.  Sadly as they get moved on they are only looking for softer targets.

Scumbags.

Anyone know if there’s some other reason they targeted the Thwaites property???

Because they could?

Just seen the photos on Twitter.  What a set of shitehawks.  I can about understand why they'd want to break into a brewery, but what's the point of just destroying the place in the process?  What've they gained by that, other than conforming to stereotype and reinforcing the public's negative opinion about them?

Don't sit on the fence, Binners, tell us what you really think.

They’re nothing more than a mobile mob of thugs who waltz through life thinking they can do whatever the **** they like, and couldn’t give a toss how it impacts on anybody else

Having had personal and professional experience with them I’d have to say this is pretty much spot on.

They’re nothing more than a mobile mob of thugs who waltz through life knowing they can do whatever the **** they like, and couldn’t give a toss how it impacts on anybody else.

FIFY.

I'm more saddened that Thwaites refers to itself as a craft brewery 🙁

Thwaites Brewery
@ThwaitesBrewery
We're the brewers behind Thwaites Brewery, an innovative craft brewery; brewing distinctive, individual beers and trialling new recipes.

All the scum is floating northwards at the moment. Appleby Horse Fair 7 - 10 June.

http://www.applebyfair.org/

One of those pictures shows what looks like a shotgun blast point-blank through the middle of a window at close range. Why would they do that? Has there been some kind of dispute with the brewery? Perhaps between the brewery and one of its tenants? It also looks as if they have ransacked a bin containing paperwork, perhaps looking for financial or customer information.

By the look of that there is actual breaking and entering, criminal damage and possibly theft arrests possible there? Or just too much effort for very little chance of an outcome?

You would have to identify exactly which people did what. And the only witnesses won't help you. So too much effort for no chance of getting anywhere.

We've just had the Wickham horse fair near us. Funny enough there's been a spate of thefts, not to mention shutting down the village foe a week. And then there's the street brawls (60 year old blokes brawling at 9am on the high street with hundreds watching), racing ponies and traps on the local roads, detritus and destruction.

I do feel for the police to an extent as they are in a no win situation. Try to move in to break things up and they all close ranks, any perpetrators just disappear and no one saw a thing.

I know that everyone says we have to be politically correct etc, but they do seem to be a group within society that gets away with what they like as no-one seems to know what to do to handle them.

I work for an insurers and a large part of my job is dealing with cross-border claims, we have a traveller family that we have tied to over 90 motor accidents, using northern irish vehicles having accidents in the Republic of Ireland and visa-versa, and Police don't want to touch them.

Here in Norfolk, my father in law runs a large chalk and flint quarry, they kept turning up with compressors and other tools clearly marked "USAF" down the side nicked for Lakenheath and Mildenhall airbases, when he refused buying stuff from them, they came back and drained the red diesel tanks, what they couldn't carry they allowed to drain into the ground making it unusable.

Again, the park and ride car park where we park for work, they have rotated through there every few months over the last year, last time when they decided to place security guards on sight, they set fire to the grass and left meaning loads of cars were damaged from smoke damage. We sat and looked at a few of the registrations, 90% of them were uninsured for their Transits.

Why are they simply allowed to get away with it?

..

in the case of [Mod edit] I’d happily endorse a more draconian solution.

They’re nothing more than a mobile mob of thugs who waltz through life thinking they can do whatever the **** they like, and couldn’t give a toss how it impacts on anybody else

 they do seem to be a group within society that gets away with what they like

What I think people might do well to remember is that not ALL gypsies / travellers behave in this manner, any more than all Muslim men of ****stani heritage are child rapists and all cyclists ignore red traffic lights.

They've spent an eternity sussing out how to circumvent every legal norm so that now they are, to all intents and purposes, outside the law.

And if any group in society knows this full-well - that in reality there are effectively no consequences to your actions - then I'm sure this would inevitably how they'd end up behaving.

Difficult to see what you can realistically do about it really now they're so far removed from the rest of society, without going full genocidal fascist dictator on them.

Actually, when you think about it.....

What I think people might do well to remember is that not ALL gypsies / travellers behave in this manner

Yeah, right.....

They pitched up at MI5 in Bury a couple of years back.

Gone by morning.

Yeah, right…..

Ah the generalisations, I'm sure all your crayon chewing mates are just like you binners.

I'm guessing, binners, that you probably haven't got to know / work with / socialise with many, maybe any, gypsies / travellers?

That's not a criticism, most of "us" haven't (the "us" being the non-travelling community).

Or you might have, but you didn't know it - being a gypsy / traveller in the workplace is what I imagine being gay was like up until a few years ago - you don't tell anyone, not if you want to still have a job or cordial relationships with colleagues. Dunno what the solution is - maybe they should be made to wear some sort of marking so that you can easily identify them (all the easier to discriminate and stigmatise)

I wonder  why "they" keep themselves to themselves, like?

Maybe the stigma of being labelled as per this thread - the assumption that if you are one of "them" then you share all the worst characteristics that have been observed of any other members of the community?

interesting about that Applebyfair thing- never knew it existed, its quite near me. It explains the several horse drawn carts etc and (LPG/transit powered) caravans I saw yesterday on the back roads out of Lancaster. The traditional caravans are pretty impressive looking, works of art.

The action taken at the brewery was horrific, hope there is some justice for the parties involved.

case of [Mod edit] I’d happily endorse a more Hitler-esque ‘solution’.

Got to be blunt here: that's not the sort of comment you should make and expect to get away with. It's racist and offensive.

I am as appalled as everyone else here at what travellers have done to the Thwaites site, but suggesting that all of them should be murdered - especially giving specific context of the Holocaust - is simply wrong and smacks of gross ignorance.

Have a read of this and you might see why.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porajmos

Edit: just seen edlongs's posts. Completely agree.  There is an issue with crime in the travelling community, but that problem is down to a combination of police fear, cuts, and apathy.  Suggesting that the entire bunch is murdered is rarely an effective solution.

in the case of [Mod edit] I’d happily endorse a more Hitler-esque ‘solution’.

An estimated quarter of a million gypsies were murdered by the Nazis. That's a quarter of the population alive in Europe at the time. They were taken to concentration camps where they were used for forced labour, gassed, used for 'scientific' experiments, or shot. Tens of thousands never made it as far as the concentration camps.

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219

I don't know if you think you're being funny - maybe 'jokes' like that get a good response at your local - but I don't think that's much of an excuse. My advice is you stop, take a look at what you say and do, and ask yourself if you like what you see.

Got to be blunt here: that’s not the sort of comment you should make and expect to get away with. It’s racist and offensive.

Yet weirdly the report post link is missing from that post which has stayed up for over 2hours now. Post a picture with some swearing on it and its deleted almost instantly along with a ban.

Perhaps they self identified as brewers?

the brewery had to dispose of 1,700 pints

every cloud

[edit - beaten to it by eddie]

I don't judge all travellers the same, but some of them do seem to follow the viz stereotype of being "thieving pikey bastards"

I worked at parcel farce years ago, and some moved in next door. One night, they decided to steal the diesel out of the vehicles, but syphoning it was to hard. So they smashed holes in all of the fuel tanks,and put buckets underneath to catch some of it.

Yet weirdly the report post link is missing from that post which has stayed up for over 2hours now. Post a picture with some swearing on it and its deleted almost instantly along with a ban.

this.

I have to laugh now, I was banned for a WEEK for <span style="text-decoration: underline;">using asterisks in a swearword not even the complete word</span> in a lighthearted post a couple of months ago. Invoke the genocide of millions? nothing.

And what is with the lack of report button on his post?

is it clever, that it's been reported and saves the admins getting multiple reports for the same post?

There was certainly a report button available on that post a little earlier.

Think @theotherjonv may have it...

I predict six pages, and the ban 🔨😁

From past experience I’ve only seen travellers on wasteland and derelict areas.

Yeah 'wasteland' like my local shopping centre, totally blocking access.  Or 'derelict areas' like the local kids cricket pitches which are now ruined as caravans were dragged across them when they were waterlogged.

Come to think of it, they leave places looking like wasteland so maybe you had a point.

I can't agree with binners, but IME* it's hard to find many really adding to society. By this I mean abiding by rules, paying tax etc. Couldn't care less if someone want to live in a caravan, as long as they have a right to be on the land they are on.

*used to know the south Leicestershire crew pretty well, back when Ben Pepper was the local 'king' someone who spent a damn site more on his number plate (BEN 1) than we did on our car. Mind you, he did have his own land. His sons & the other travelers who lived on his site still went out stealing fuel / cars and fighting anyone they could in town however....

Just to untwist some knickers and unruffle some petticoats, I am not seriously advocating genocide.

i was being daft!

If you read my later post, I did say that I didn’t have a bloody clue what you do about it?

Just to untwist some knickers and unruffle some petticoats, I am not seriously advocating genocide.

i was being daft!

Given a couple of previous threads on what the intent behind statements was and people saying inflammatory things then running away from them its probably better to think first.

Isn’t there a whole bunch of Laws covering this type of behaviour?

Pretty sure if it was you or I emitting this behaviour we’d be in some holding cell somewhere..

Just to untwist some knickers and unruffle some petticoats, I am not seriously advocating genocide.

Sexist as well as racist...

What I think people might do well to remember is that not ALL gypsies / travellers behave in this manner, any more than all Muslim men of ****stani heritage are child rapists and all cyclists ignore red traffic lights.

Most Roma, and you might do well to remember that those persecuted by the Nazis, were Roma, loath those of the travelling community who behave like this. I’m pretty certain that the ones who do this are Irish, and the people back home are only too glad to see the back of them. There’s a small group of Roma locally who were on a nice site just outside of Chippenham, then a large number of Irish travellers moved onto the site and conditions went downhill rapidly, until the Roma families were forced out and the bought a small plot alongside the A4 and moved there. At the original site it wasn’t unusual to see a bunch of police vans parked nearby and a helicopter overhead...

Or you might have, but you didn’t know it – being a gypsy / traveller in the workplace is what I imagine being gay was like up until a few years ago

You have pretty poor imagination then. Gay people have always tended to care about other people other than themselves, generally abide by the laws of the land, paid taxes, not lived like foraging animals, not destroyed other people’s property, not robbed the general public, not organised bare knuckle fighting in the streets.

As far as I know anyway.

Sexist as well as racist…

Are you saying men cant wear petticoats and knickers? You’re assuming he meant women. You need to take a long hard look at yourself mate. 😉

Isn’t there a whole bunch of Laws covering this type of behaviour?

Pretty sure if it was you or I emitting this behaviour we’d be in some holding cell somewhere..

Proving who actually commited the crimes would be the main barrier. You couldn't just round them all up and try and convict them. Would never get through court. So the only alternative seems to be moving them on

You couldn’t just round them all up and try and convict them. Would never get through court.

Is there still a law in England where you can get done for the crime by being there and involved with the people who done it? I remember some controversy surrounding it a few years ago as youths were getting done for murder etc when they weren't the ones doing the stabbing or beating etc.

Yeah, I know that but the police just seem to do nothing.

Same as in Wickham near where I live (as mentioned) there is always damage to property and yet nothing is done about it. I know there once was a petition to get it cancelled and the “travellers” said they’d just turn up anyway...

Oddly it’s one of the few sections of society I have little respect for...

Maybe their status comes with diplomatic immunity?

Must be great to have a right old time of it on somebody else's property, cause over 100 grand's worth of damage, then just swan off to do the same somewhere else, with complete impunity.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why people don't welcome them with open arms

To be honest, I know that the police have limited resources to investigate a lot of property damage, theft etc, but this goes way beyond that. They're violently threatening people to effectively evict them from their own property, before setting about their theft and wrecking spree.

If the police can't or won't do anything about that, then they're effectively telling them they can do what they ****ing well like with no comeback.

They are not all the same but sadly enough travellers are a waste of O2 to taint them all.

As for the police response to them.  I’d be guessing they are spread thin enough without chasing after people who will never end being punished

When a borough like Ribble Valley only has about 20 police on duty on an average night, half of whom are sent straight to permanent duties like guarding prisoners in hospital, it would take a monumental bit of anticipation and coordination to get enough police together on one night to be able to steam in and search every Transit and caravan, gather evidence and confiscate untaxed vehicles, all while being harrassed and intimidated by loudmouths who know their rights inside out. The legal arguments and demands for compo would last for years afterwards.

That said, my PC neighbour tells me the Thwaites brewery was almost disused as the brewing has gone to Marston's. The offices are being used by tenants and a microbrewery and the yard was vacant.

Wiki says:

"In January 2014, the company made the wrong kind of national headlines. Thwaites' proposed closure of its Star Brewery and 60 brewing redundancies led to staff temporarily switching off the H, I and E in the company's brewery sign to spell "****s".Thwaites' inability to select an alternative site for its brewery and to conclude a deal to sell its site to Sainsbury's received criticism in many areas including the local press and brewing industry. The Tandleman blog suggested that apart from the beers produced in the renowned Crafty Dan craft brewery, Thwaites would contract out production of its beers permanently to other breweries."

orangeboy

As for the police response to them.  I’d be guessing they are spread thin enough without chasing after people who will never end being punished

They are over-represented in prison compared to their proportion of the general population so clearly they are being prosecuted to some extent.  I have spoken to Police officers a number of times about them and believe me, they are as frustrated as we are with the situation.

Travelers might not be able to read or write but they are not stupid, they know how to play the game.

I've only lived in my current location 4 years and I already could give probably 20 stories from direct family and friends from this area who have been personally affected by travelers. That includes assault, fraud and theft, yet the Travelers must make up less than 1% of the population.  As far as I know,  not a single conviction has resulted, and that's not for lack of trying from the Police. Like I said, they know how to play the game,  it is their day job.  They are experts at it.

It is a big problem for those affected and it's not going away.

We need an elite taskforce of pensioners with screwdrivers to work as security guards.

We need an elite taskforce of pensioners with screwdrivers to work as security guards.

Recruitment drive at B&Q?

I for one am yet to come across a group of travellers who leave an occupied site as they found it, Has anyone else?.

I for one am yet to come across a group of travellers who leave an occupied site as they found it, Has anyone else?.

Are we including festival-goers in this?

They're a sort of reverse-Wombles

"I for one am yet to come across a group of travellers who leave an occupied site as they found it, Has anyone else?"

hear hear.

Bring back our lovely BRITISH lay-bys and waste-grounds. Lets' not let them harm our nation's hidden eyesores. I'm old enough to remember our dead-ends, un surfaced car parks and lay bys once having some stunning dumped aggregate or a burnt out fiesta. Now look at them. These lot just ruin that for all of us.

I for one am yet to come across a group of travellers who leave an occupied site as they found it, Has anyone else?.

Depends on what makes a group but I know a couple of families who mostly keep to themselves and travel between a handful of regular sites, they cause zero issues for anybody. No idea what the split is between decent people and bawbags within the overall travelling population but I know you won't likely ever run into these families I know due to the way they live so I wonder how many others like them are still on the go.

The other travellers I know own their own site (and house on it also) as well as their own very successful company. If you ran into these people day to day you'd not know they were travellers, but they do hit the road for work and live on sites whilst working. Never seen or heard of any issues with them.

I don't personally know any of the bawbag types but encountered plenty of them before.

I don’t personally know any of the bawbag types

I don't think anyone knows them per se, that's part of the issue, they can do whatever the **** they like and no one knows who they are, no one gets to know them, the Police are rightfully shit scared of them, and we pay to clean it up.

I'm sure every one of us could link from our local paper.

http://www.suttonguardian.co.uk/news/16199529.Anger_at____shocking____fly-tip_left_by_travellers_group_at_North_Cheam_site/

http://apiln.blogspot.com/

https://en-gb.facebook.com/angrypeopleinlocalnewspapers/

In case you don't have your local rag to hand....

Nobber, I think your missing the point there,

There's a point Pike?

Some people seem to know some who are not trashing everything, you seem to deny they exist

Where did I say that? I used the word 'occupy' which I'd say differentiates those who use sites legally to those who don't. I've never seen any places locally that travellers have turned up, occupied, been moved on, and not left a midden behind. Does that make it easier for you?.

I'm well aware there are good 'uns too.

Yet weirdly the report post link is missing from that post

You can put the tinfoil down.  The "Report" link disappears once a post has been reported, as @theotherjonv posited.

which has stayed up for over 2hours now. Post a picture with some swearing on it and its deleted almost instantly along with a ban.

There was a delay whilst we were discussing whether "pikey" was inherently offensive or whether its use was acceptable in describing this particular group of miscreants.  Ie, not all travellers are "pikeys" but this lot were, sort of thing.

Swearing in pictures is much more clearly defined, it's an easier judgement call.

I have to laugh now, I was banned for a WEEK for using asterisks in a swearword not even the complete word

No you weren't.  You were banned for doing it repeatedly despite several warnings and the penultimate one advising that you'd receive a ban if you did it again.

I for one am yet to come across a group of travellers who leave an occupied site as they found it, Has anyone else?.

Nor me, but is there an element of reporting bias / confirmation bias here perhaps?  "Travellers leave site exactly as they found it" doesn't make for headline news.  Like, someone sees a cyclist jump a red light and thinks "bloody cyclists" whilst ignoring / not noticing the thousands who don't do so.

I rode motorbikes in the 80s .

Many pubs wouldn't let me in due to my mode of transport.

An effort was made to point out that we were normal people who just rode motorbikes .

Toy runs were organised and eventually we got accepted.

As far as I am aware there doesn't seem to be any attempt by gypsies to improve their image. I assume they quite like their "nobody likes us and we don't care"status.

"No you weren’t.  You were banned for doing it repeatedly despite several warnings and the penultimate one advising that you’d receive a ban if you did it again"

I'd love to see the correspondence regarding the 'several warnings' because i sure as hell don't have it.

I suspect I wont get it just like the last time I asked. Your language policy is a joke, swearing all over the place- asterisks or not. And yet this unit Binners wont get banned? Its a laughing stock mate.

Apologies, lets get back to the badly tarmac'd driveways again. As you were.

I am deeply concerned that a post on STW containing "I’d happily endorse a more Hitler-esque ‘solution" has not been removed after it has been reported. Do the mods think this kind of language is appropriate in any context?

"I am deeply concerned that a post on STW containing “I’d happily endorse a more Hitler-esque ‘solution” has not been removed after it has been reported. Do the mods think this kind of language is appropriate in any context?"

here's your answer:

"There was a delay whilst we were discussing whether “pikey” was inherently offensive"

takeaway? they don't GAF.

well somebody report my post if you want where I repeated it and asked the question.

And this is why they get away with it - people picking fault with any action someone wants to take against them. OK the hitler comment might be a bit far but I bet they are all laughing nowadays as they can paint themselves as a persecuted minority like LGBT/BAME/disabled/religious groups when in reality they are nothing like them and certainly don't deserve any special treatment.

Roma groups are ok and you'd probably never see them, the scum that are the "travellers" make themselves out to be some sort of glamorous old fashioned community but they are just criminals who have used violence and intimidation, along with some legal loopholes in our society to basically do whatever they want.

As far as I am aware there doesn’t seem to be any attempt by gypsies to improve their image. I assume they quite like their “nobody likes us and we don’t care”status.

I take gypsies and travellers to mean two separate groups of people.

“I am deeply concerned that a post on STW containing “I’d happily endorse a more Hitler-esque ‘solution” has not been removed after it has been reported. Do the mods think this kind of language is appropriate in any context?”

Not agreeing with the comment in any way, and notwithstanding that I suspect it wasn't meant to anything like the full extent of the words anyway, is it not a situation where we have to not defend the opinion but defend the right to have the opinion?

Not agreeing with the comment in any way, and notwithstanding that I suspect it wasn’t meant to anything like the full extent of the words anyway, is it not a situation where we have to not defend the opinion but defend the right to have the opinion?

See a couple months ago when nazi dug guy got found guilty of a criminal offence for making a joke.

See news every other day where someone has just lost a job or a contract or something or other for making a joke or expressing an opinion others disagreed with.

I think it's too late.

I’d love to see the correspondence regarding the ‘several warnings’ because i sure as hell don’t have it.

I'm more than happy to forward it on to you if you think I'm lying.

I am deeply concerned that a post on STW containing “I’d happily endorse a more Hitler-esque ‘solution” has not been removed after it has been reported. Do the mods think this kind of language is appropriate in any context?

The post was reported for racist language, and that's what it was moderated on (not by me, BTW). I know Binners well enough to understand that he wasn't being serious so didn't really pay it much heed TBH. Which leads us to:

Not agreeing with the comment in any way, and notwithstanding that I suspect it wasn’t meant to anything like the full extent of the words anyway, is it not a situation where we have to not defend the opinion but defend the right to have the opinion?

This is where I'd be coming from I think. There's no "right" answer here, to an extent we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. We already get accused of being "over-zealous" by some quarters. If we'd deleted the post, aren't we essentially just applying censorship? Is that really what most people want? I don't think I do.

I'm kind of the opinion that if people want to say dickish things (I'm not referring specifically to this post here, I'm generalising) then maybe their comments should be left for others to see them being dickish. They get called out on it and it becomes self-policing by community rather than draconian moderating.

In any case, the post has been re-quoted and discussed here making clean-up a nightmare, we'd have to edit / delete half a page of posts.  So I think in this specific case the genie's out of the bottle now.

I know Binners well enough to understand that he wasn’t being serious so didn’t really pay it much heed TBH.

Lol. What if it was someone you didn't know well? What does that approach to moderation look like to a more casual observer?

I agree with the mods on this, I thought STW had a policy of not deleting stuff because it encouraged people to think before they posted. You can post anything you like, but it's there for all eternity if anyone googles your username.

Other forums with more censorial mods just have people saying stupid shit knowing it will be deleted.

The post was reported for racist language, and that’s what it was moderated on (not by me, BTW). I know Binners well enough to understand that he wasn’t being serious so didn’t really pay it much heed TBH. Which leads us to:

Good point, although not every one does, it sort of leads to the point where we can escape anything by calling it a joke. It also highlights an issue with the one time report button, personally the term used was the least offensive part of that. Invoking  mass murder of a single group as a joke is still there as the the far end of things. I know the genie is out of the bottle and I think the responses with jaw dropping may inform the mods as to what the users find unacceptable. Because a mate wrote it shouldn't change how you read it.

I think what he’s trying to say is that he’s fully aware that I’m a nobhead, as most people who meet me are, rather than a potentially genocidal right wing nut-job advocating mass murder

Anyway when I said more Hitler-esque’ i actually meant requiring them all, by law, to grow daft little moustaches and wear Lederhosen, thus making them far less menacing, and also raising some practical issues when trying to fly tip a Transit load of industrial waste into a local beauty spot?

That ok?

"I’m more than happy to forward it on to you if you think I’m lying"

please do, I was asking for this back when i was banned 7 months ago- not that it makes any difference to anyone. I only ever received one email indicating "time off" hense my attitude at the time of this being a petty boys club where ****tish behaviour is tolerated because they're in the clique and somehow swearing is an unforgivable sin. Seems some above are alluding to the same clique within this thread above. funny that.

U OK HUN? XX

Bans should be reserved for the following words:

you ok hun

said

outwith

curated

gifted

That is all.