Three Phase Electri...
 

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Three Phase Electricity

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Our semi detached house currently has a shared supply. The supply cable comes in our house then just before the meter splits and goes through the common wall to our neighbours meter.

We have a lettter from Scottish Power drawing our attention to this. I knew already but only found out  when the consumer unit was replaced a few years ago.  There is a few streets of 1970s houses which all have the same set up.

Scottish Power wish to upgrade every house to a seperate thre phase supply for future proofing for heat pumps and EVs.  No cost to us.

Any issues I should be aware of?  Any  questions to ask.  Is a new meter needed? Currently a dumb meter.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 11:28 am
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You won't notice any difference. Having a smart meter means you get more accurate billing and can potentially tap into better overnight rates if you do get EV

This will mean some disruption as it will require new infrastructure to go in, so the street will be dug up and everyone will need a new cable into their houses.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 11:35 am
 5lab
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the only thing I'd be concious of is re-doing a cable from the street to however it gets to your consumer box today. They may also want to move the meter to the outside of your property, where it looks ugly


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 11:37 am
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Pretty sure you will need a new meter.

The only issue I can think off is that do a messy job and put in meter in a crappy location. Someone on here had an issue with that I think?

The other advantage of a 3 phase supply is that you can install 12kw of solar panels if you want.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 11:38 am
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The other advantage of a 3 phase supply is that you can install 12kw of solar panels if you want.

Or a 9kw Sauna


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 11:42 am
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"They may also want to move the meter to the outside of your property, where it looks ugly"

The gas supply was replaced a year or so ago. The meter was moved but actually to a better location.  Still indoors. They made a very neat job.   No trench required. Just a hole dug  in the side path  which they repaired well.

Even if they need to dig the path up for new cabling it isn't a big issue. 3x2 council slabs. Easy to put back.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 12:17 pm
 poly
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Having a smart meter means you get more accurate billing

I don't think they are any more accurate - they are more granular so you can see and track usage constantly, but I don't think the accuracy of old meters was ever an issue.  There are advantages like using tariffs that are cheaper for high loads (ev charging) at night etc.  If you worry about bills its perhaps worth being aware that a modern smart meter can be switched remotely to work like a pre-payment meter without your involvement - most people won't be bothered about that (but you are placing some faith in utility companies not to do it to extract more money from you!).


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 12:22 pm
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Sounds great. You can theoretically charge an EV at 22kW if you have three phase, however most cars can't handle that much AC. But some can.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 12:22 pm
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I don’t think they are any more accurate

More accurate from a never get billed on an estimated reading point of view


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 12:26 pm
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It's a good thing.  Apart from the car you won't get much advantage in the rest of the house as it will only be connected to one of the phases.  However if you wanted to do something like dump a gas cooker and put an electric one in instead then you could use the 3ph for that if you run a new cable

Be aware that there are two 'flavours' of three phase, star and delta.  Delta is much rarer but it that is what you are getting then it needs a different model of car charger.  Anyone installing one should check but it never hurts to double check yourself


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 12:27 pm
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I'd jump at the chance but be wary it might be a long time before it's sorted.

We've just had 3-phase installed, I paid ~£2600 for the privilege. It's in but it's taken around 9 months so far and the old single phase still hasn't been disconnected properly - a capped line about 10" down right in the middle of where we're trying to dig foundations. And Scottish Gas now tell us they don't install 3-phase meters. We just have one phase connected into the old meter and have 2 unmetered phases - yes, the fuses are in for all 3 phases - so we technically have free electricity. Bit of a mess overall, but for future install of heat pumps/solar panels/EV charger then it's no brainer.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 12:43 pm
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so we technically have free electricity

You have 2 unmetered phases!

Bloody hell! That would be very tempting!


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 1:42 pm
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Posted : 16/06/2023 1:46 pm
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Western Power did this for my looped supply when I had a car charger fitted. Exactly the same scenario as you OP.

They’ll fit a 3-phase supply with a new 3-phase cut-out (main fuse), but they won’t give you 3-phase. They’ll connect one of the phases so you have a single phase supply like you previously did. They do this to future-proof the infrastructure but without needing to ensure that the supply to the road is capable of every house pulling the maximum over three phases. You don’t need a new meter, the DNO (Scottish Power) doesn’t give a monkey’s about your meter, that’s the responsibility of your energy supplier.

If by some miracle they do give you full 3-phase, then yes, you’ll need a new meter from your energy supplier. Having three phase may also restrict your choice of energy tariffs.

You’ll need to agree a route for the cable into your house, it may not be where you’d want it to be. For me it meant a trench down my drive. Luckily I’d been putting off having the drive relaid.

Whilst it was disruptive, taking about a month to do end-to-end (different team for each bit…) it is worth it for the future-proofing


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 2:02 pm
 igm
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The other advantage of a 3 phase supply is that you can install 12kw of solar panels if you want.

11kW if it’s G98. If not it’s what you can agree. I have 7.3kW on single phase.

All DNO 3 phase at LV is 230V single, 400V three phase (we’ll ignore split single, Scott wound etc). Wouldn’t amaze me if there’s something else somewhere, but generally.
And it’s all off delta-star transformers. Difficult to offer the single phase option if it’s delta due to lack of an earth point (you need an earthing transformer).

As for whether it’s a good idea - well I’ve been involved in the decision making process as to whether we should offer it, and generally I feel it’s a gimmick.  Not always, but if the existing network is of reasonable quality it will generally support EV charging (I have two on single phase), PV (I have 7.3kW as I said) and/or a battery (I have one of those too). Heat pumps might make it more interesting but that will depend on where the market settles on that.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 2:35 pm
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It wouldn't make any difference to you (apart from the construction works). 3 phase gives a 'smoother' output, at higher current/power - so good for large motors. I can't see the need for it unless you have a workshop or something.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 3:53 pm
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Bensales is right.

You’ll just use one phase of the 3 phases, the only difference you’ll notice is the cutout with the fuses is larger than the one you have now.

For three phase use, you will require either: a three phase consumer unit /DB, or, 2 additional consumer units. As well as a three phase meter, and, of course, along with that, extra standing charges as you will now have 3 supplies.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 4:19 pm
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The other advantage to the proposed set up is that if the DNO have a fault on 9ne of the phases, you could be restored by them simply switching you to another. Can be done live.

Also in the event of a fault, it gives them another location where they can test all three phases.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 5:30 pm
 igm
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The other advantage to the proposed set up is that if the DNO have a fault on 9ne of the phases, you could be restored by them simply switching you to another. Can be done live.

Nice idea provided there’s plenty of spare capacity on the LV main and you’re not using 3 phase. And we can keep the voltage balanced on the other two phases. And there’s a full cross section neutral. And doing it at each affected house is quicker than doing the fault repair.

So perhaps. Sometimes.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 6:46 pm
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Yeah, not every time, but I've done it in real life so more than just a theory.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 7:45 pm
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"For three phase use, you will require either: a three phase consumer unit /DB, or, 2 additional consumer units. "

Not much actual benefit to me then. I am not planning on getting solar panels or an EV.

I'll need to double check where the supply comes from. Our house is a layout where there is a footpath one side and road the other side. Some services, water, BT come from the road. Others, gas, Vigin cable come from the path.

The path side would be minor hassle. The road side much more.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 8:20 pm
 igm
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@Onzadog fair enough. I haven’t been operational in 25 years. It’s amazing what gets done when there’s a fault.


 
Posted : 16/06/2023 9:45 pm
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And an update. The company have been out to do the survey. As suggested upthread we are not getting three phase. They are running a three phase supply cable then using one phase

. So no change after the main fuse.

Though in one respect it is an upgrade. I knew the supply cable from the main went in to our house then looped to supply the other half of the semi. Turns out it actually supplies the adjacent two houses as well.

So 4 houses off one cable from the main. All now getting separate three phase cables for future proofing.

I wonder if this would have needed sorted before now had any of the 4 houses wanted an EV charger fitted?


 
Posted : 24/06/2023 7:06 pm

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