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Moderators do this at will, with no explanation time and time again, mid debate
At least explain, or close them fully so people can't 'like' posts
Nothing was getting heated, let people express differing opinions, don't just close it when the person of choice has had the last word.
Relatively few threads get closed on here compared to most other forums I've used. When they are, it's usually pretty obvious why. Do you really think moderators wait until one of their supposed favourites has posted before hitting 'close thread'? Or is it more likely that they close fractious threads early to preserve a little of their freely given time of a Sunday evening?
Edit: I reckon there's a reasonable chance you'll be outed as a moderator favourite when this is closed after your last word.... 😉
Do you really think moderators wait until one of their supposed favourites has posted before hitting ‘close thread’?
On here, yes tbh
It's their bat and ball. Go somewhere else if it bothers you?
I've moderated on several forums over the years and generally a play nice warning was used before thread closure and an explanation posted upon closure. Without exception, I was a volunteer freely giving my time, even on a Sunday evening.
I assumed that someone had crossed a line and the post deleted. Explanations would be helpful when they are closed, just so we know what to avoid in future.
Though given the subject matter, if the mods just didn't fancy keeping an eye on the thread on a Sunday night, fair play to them. I hadn't expected the thread to go quite the way it went, you'd think I'd have known by now.
One sure fire way to get a thread closed is to start one querying why a thread was closed though.
There were some pretty despicable views being aired and that thread was only going to go one way.
its normally the usual protagonist who cause them to get closed. Prevent them from posting would be better
To be fair to the mods, the bar for being banned is quite high here. I'd sooner give folk the chance to discuss their point of view, it's how those views are articulated that is often the issue rather than the content.
that thread was only going to go one way
So much this.
[Edited - actually no. I'm speculating and it could be viewed as provocative].
There were some pretty despicable views being aired and that thread was only going to go one way.
As the OP, my position on the subject was pretty clear but I couldn't say anyone had said anything I felt was "despicable" - misguided and misinformed, certainly, but it was locked before I had a chance to point out the one I felt had been missed in the traffic.
Do you really think moderators wait until one of their supposed favourites has posted before hitting ‘close thread’?
Well obviously not as I was the last to post. I can assure you that I am not a mod favourite 🙂
Tbh I am baffled as to why the thread was closed. I agree that despite an obvious clash of opinions nothing was getting heated and everything appeared perfectly polite to me.
Aren't forums vehicles for exchange of opinions? Echo chambers are never a very healthy environment imo.
Tbh I am baffled as to why the thread was closed. I agree that despite an obvious clash of opinions nothing was getting heated and everything appeared perfectly polite to me.
Aren’t forums vehicles for exchange of opinions?
We actually agree 🙂
Aren’t forums vehicles for exchange of opinions? Echo chambers are never a very healthy environment imo.
They are, but as I said, if the Mods didn't want to keep an eye on it tonight - maybe it's their Christmas party? - fair enough closing it in case of problems. Seem to be a couple of names I haven't noticed before cropping up on threads with contentious views, maybe the Russian sleeper bots are being activated.
if the Mods didn’t want to keep an eye on it tonight –
Forgive my daft question, but what's the worst that could happen if that was indeed the case?
Moderators do this at will, with no explanation time and time again, mid debate
Speaking as a former STW moderator,
a) you aren't owed an explanation and
b) no they don't, chill with the histrionics.
At least explain, or close them fully so people can’t ‘like’ posts
Moderators probably don't have the privs to block out the Like button. I don't know for sure, it implemented was after my time.
For what it's worth, were I still a moderator I'd have contested that thread's closure. But someone starting a second thread whining about the first would've netted themselves a Christmas holiday.
Good evening.
As has been explained many times on here, thread closures are very rare unless they’re a duplicate or already a similar on started recently. If they’re closed suddenly it’s because a mod team member has spotted it will be taking up a lot of our time trying to monitor. We do this voluntarily and I not sure about you but I’ve better things to do than keep checking a forum or responding to alerts.
Just curious. I believe Drac is the only known mod at the moment - are all the mods also regular forum users? Or are some just mods but never post? How many of you are there? Or is this all top secret?
As I said, just curious really. Not trying to out anyone 😉
And thank you all for your time spent keeping this place sane and alive! (FWIW, I never read the recently closed thread that this one's about, so this is not a comment on that)
I not sure about you but I’ve better things to do than keep checking a forum or responding to alerts.
awkward silence….
I assumed that someone had crossed a line and the post deleted.
That was my assumption, as there was nothing I could see that came close to requiring a thread lock.
Thread with one of the highest like counts I've ever seen too. Always a sign of high levels of potential offence.
If they’re closed suddenly it’s because a mod team member has spotted it will be taking up a lot of our time trying to monitor. We do this voluntarily and I not sure about you but I’ve better things to do than keep checking a forum or responding to alerts.
With respect, no-one's asking you to spend more time on here - more that a brief explanation be given as to why threads are closed.
That thread started well but was kind of getting a bit argumentative and its Sunday night so I guessed the mods decided to call time on it for a quiet evening.
I mod a couple of groups. I always explain why I am intervening. Some of my colleagues prefer not to and as they are the ones dealing with it at the time I respect that.
I mod a couple of groups. I always explain why I am intervening. Some of my colleagues prefer not to and as they are the ones dealing with it at the time I respect that.
Mods that don't explain their modding have to do more modding than those that do.
Mods that don’t explain their modding have to do more modding than those that do.
Well yes I completely agree which is why I always encourage explanation even if its "Sorry, its Sunday night and I cant be arsed to sit up babysitting a thread with the usual suspects baiting each other, so I am closing this until the morning etc etc", also these roles are usually voluntary and some people dont like the direct nature of that approach, and as they are the person giving up their time to deal with it I respect that.
There is quite a number on here who spit toxicity when faced with someone who proposes a different idea or thoughts on a subject to that they support.
Currently I'm reading their view on this thread how that isnt the case and we should be able to talk or converse on a subject without fear of attack.
Just curious. I believe Drac is the only known mod at the moment – are all the mods also regular forum users? Or are some just mods but never post? How many of you are there? Or is this all top secret?
You can likely count the active moderators on the fingers of one hand. One passed away semi-recently, whether they were replaced I do not know.
Mods that don’t explain their modding have to do more modding than those that do.
Mods that are anonymous can't explain their modding without outing themselves (or creating a second account I suppose). It's one of the reasons I insisted on being public from the outset despite being "strongly advised" not to. There are - well, I suppose, were - forum members who would wish us ill will.
With respect, no-one’s asking you to spend more time on here
No, but if we get emails coming through multiple times for the same thread then that’s what happens. We could of course also ban protagonists but they often get a bit huffy about that too. So, it’s easier to close them and get on with our day.
I glanced at the thread in question and thought - "thats gonna get closed - stay away"
FWIW I think the modding on here gets it right most of the time and I try to remember we are guests in a private playground
There are – well, I suppose, were – forum members who would wish us ill will.
An angle that all too often gets lost in today's social media white-out. In any population of, say, 1000 people - it is highly likely there will be at least one proper nutter.
It is something that those of us who did most of our growing up pre social media probably feel more. For younger folk I have a theory that it is just an accepted risk, and acceptance can sometimes veer towards forgotten.
I sincerely hope that quote is not indicative of something specific that has happened, but I suspect otherwise.
🙁
Mods that are anonymous can’t explain their modding without outing themselves (or creating a second account I suppose).
Genuinely surprised there are anonymous mods. I've seen threads closed or updated with a note from a mod added to one of the posts, that's anonymous - if mods don't have the rights to update posts, give them that right.
FWIW I think the modding on here gets it right most of the time and I try to remember we are guests in a private playground
I'd strongly agree with that.
No, but if we get emails coming through multiple times for the same thread then that’s what happens.
Fair comment although it comes as a surprise to me, and presumably others, that the particular thread in question generated multiple emails.
I see thread-closing mostly as a way to save us from ourselves.
If folks want to go off on one calling into the ether then there's Facebook or X.
The mods do a good job. Thank you mods.
An angle that all too often gets lost in today’s social media white-out. In any population of, say, 1000 people – it is highly likely there will be at least one proper nutter.
Even if we take this at face value, it was not uncommon for someone to post "yes but you're a moderator so..." and use it as point-scoring leverage. I took pains to distance myself between User Mode and Moderator Mode. It's easy to assume that power might be abused and indeed it could, but I'm not aware of that ever happening across the team.
I sincerely hope that quote is not indicative of something specific that has happened, but I suspect otherwise.
Eh.
There were incidents. Many predated me. But I was once stalked across social media by one of the more prolific STW Problem Children of the day. I nipped that in the bud pretty swiftly, but, still. Some of the emails directed to moderator@ beggar belief.
Genuinely surprised there are anonymous mods. I’ve seen threads closed or updated with a note from a mod added to one of the posts, that’s anonymous – if mods don’t have the rights to update posts, give them that right.
I mean, it's no secret, I'm surprised you're surprised.
I was a moderator for ten years and stepped down idk a handful of years ago for the preservation of my own sanity. At the time I agreed to the gig Drac was the only 'out' moderator, I was the second. For the bulk on my tenure the heavily active mods numbered just three, so you had one anon. There were others but they dipped in and out, the heavy lifting was done by the three of us. This may be different today, I have no idea, but I doubt it's changed significantly.
Mods do have the rights to edit posts and that's a good shout.
I see thread-closing mostly as a way to save us from ourselves.
Generally speaking, there will always be a reason. As above, I disagreed with the recent thread closure but I'm no longer privy to background comms. "**** this, it's Sunday night and I'm going to bed" is totally plausible.
Closing threads is usually a second-to-last option, issuing bans being the last, unless there are extenuating circumstances like "for crying out loud, it's 11pm on a Sunday and I'm up for work in six hours."
The mods do a good job. Thank you mods.
And, thank you for saying that.
i reckon an auto thread closure should be put in place for when one thread gets to the point where every other post is 2 or 3 protagonists arguing specifically with each other and copying and pasting quotes and telling the other what they meant - there are no winners when that happens
Eh.
What I meant was - it sounded like there had been some incident where stalking/threats/abuse had been directed at a STW mod - either by the means of the email address or (more concerning) across other platforms or even in person.
Such things would seem crazy to most of us - this is a cycling forum, after all. But if there are 1000 users and only 0.1% of that user base was a dangerous nutter, that's still a dangerous nutter.
I Mod for a group of about 9k. There are maybe 4 of us but I seem to do most of it (by choice).
The same awkward Users and subjects pop up regularly usually with the same outcomes. If I see the usual suspects opining on the usual incendiary subjects, I often close the threads before and to prevent them properly kicking off.
I'm not anon and usually explain why. Usually something like 'everyone seems to have had their say and these threads mostly get out of hand' or some such.
I don't want thanks as I do it by choice. At some point I'll choose not to but for now, I'm happy to devote a bit of time to ensure sanity prevails.
There is quite a number on here who spit toxicity when faced with someone who proposes a different idea or thoughts on a subject to that they support.
Oh, and this 100%... I have recent direct experience of this. Woe betide those that don't go with the flow...
I used to have moderator privileges on here before "the big hack" - I think that I mainly just corrected people's spelling mistakes.
Oh, and this 100%… I have recent direct experience of this. Woe betide those that don’t go with the flow…
I think a specific example of that 'toxicity' should be provided here. I don't recall 'toxicity' so much as people simply disagreeing with you.
I say just leave it in the other thread, thanks.
OK. Point taken.
There were incidents. Many predated me. But I was once stalked across social media by one of the more prolific STW Problem Children of the day.
that happened to me and i'm not and have never been a mod. I just dared to have a different opinion to one of the big hitters of the day back in the early 2000s. Got personal email bizarre threats, it was very upsetting at the time. So I'm sure that if a mod sees how a thread is going they close it down early to avoid that sort of thing.
Not saying the thread in this case was of that type but some threads must get lumped into the same category when the mods can't be arsed to sit for hours seeing how things pan out.
I missed that thread but just went and read it.
At the point it was closed it was fairly innocuous but given the subject matter I suspect the tone would have changed within 2 pages, max.
I suppose the only slight niggle I have is that a short word from the relevant mod saying something like, "ok, been here a thousand times and there is already a thread covering the pros and cons of Brexit," probably removes any potential ambiguity regarding the closure.
It might not have been totally about Brexit but well, it was really wasn't it.
The thread that was closed last night showed some promise for debate, there were a couple of statements that I disagreed with that were probably difficult for the poster to back up or provide evidence of but on the whole in the short time it was up it was mostly polite. I suppose that there was the risk of evening alcohol affecting debate later?
I suppose that there was the risk of evening alcohol affecting debate later?
On the sabbath? And a school night too?
I don’t drink anymore so I can be “holier than thou” every day of the week!
1. Why are there so many duplicate threads that require one to be closed? It sucks when you choose the wrong one to reply to and everyone goes for the other one. Makes me people feel like I'm they're being shunned.
2. Can we close the brown vs. red sauce thread? Let's face it, nobody's going to change their mind, it's just going to upset people who would otherwise be friends.
3. This thread serves no purpose and should be closed. Keeping it open just gives false hope that the OP's questions will be answered long after it's obvious they won't. It's just a distraction from all the other important things happening in the forum.
It's their Bat & Ball.
If they want to close a thread, up to them 🙂
Perhaps some sort of user rating would be useful. Kudos points that fluctuate. Vote up or down.
It’s just a distraction from all the other important things happening in the forum.
Reported for trolling - wink emoji
Maybe stw are trialling live modding - would at least explain the speed of posting
Keeping it open just gives false hope that the OP’s questions will be answered long after it’s obvious they won’t
I think it effectively has been answered, we're just chatting now
What I meant was – it sounded like there had been some incident where stalking/threats/abuse had been directed at a STW mod – either by the means of the email address or (more concerning) across other platforms or even in person.
Such things would seem crazy to most of us – this is a cycling forum, after all. But if there are 1000 users and only 0.1% of that user base was a dangerous nutter, that’s still a dangerous nutter.
It happened to me, and there was clearly previous also otherwise I wouldn't have been advised not to go public.
Such things would seem crazy to most of us – this is a cycling forum, after all. But if there are 1000 users and only 0.1% of that user base was a dangerous nutter, that’s still a dangerous nutter.
Those dangerous nutters walk among us, and they always seem absolutely rational and sane right up until the point they are not.
I used to co-run a medium size gaming community with a friend and we were generally pretty relaxed about everything. We had forums and an array of game servers and the accounts were linked across services. One member who always seemed fine expressed an opinion about direction of the community and when we didn't agree just went from zero to nuclear. To the point we were left with no choice but to ban them from the platform and refund the sizable donation which they proclaimed had bought them the right to steer the community direction.
They did not take it well. The end result was this person made an anonymous call to the employer my friend and I worked for at the time to make claims we were funding the community with money and equipment appropriated from them. This individual tried to destroy the careers of two people because he did not get his way on the internet. I was fortunate, he didn't have my full name, but my employer was obliged to carry out a full investigation into my friend (even through they knew it was all crap). An insane amount of time and resource was burned as well as highlighting the fact that being a known and named admin of a forum comes with risks.
this is a cycling forum
Is it? Most of the threads seem to have very little or even nothing to do with cycling or bikes. Most are about politics one way or another
Most are about politics one way or another
I can only see 3 active political threads in the last 24 hours.
I reckon "most" is hyperbole worthy of a political thread!
Most are about politics one way or another
“Politics” is just a name for the reckoning when different priorities meet. Some people like to pretend it’s not pervasive, but it’s always there.
Most of the threads seem to have very little or even nothing to do with cycling or bikes.
You know that's because there are 2 sub forums, one for bikes and one for chat? Unsurprisingly, the bike one is almost 100% bike talk and the chat one isn't <shrug emoji>
To be fair, given the fact that riding bikes seems to keep getting dragged into the culture wars, is it really that surprising that people who ride bikes might be a bit politically aware (and bring that awareness to other subjects)?
As the saying goes, 'Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.'
Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn’t mean politics won’t take an interest in you
Case in point - https://road.cc/content/news/tories-need-stop-bashing-bike-lanes-adviser-says-311649
If you’re scanning the “Overview” section you may see more non-bike threads, depends what’s active.
But click the “Bike” section…..
I am well aware of that thanks. Taking an instant snapshot of the overview shows that you have to go down 13 threads be for you get to one that’s about bikes or riding. Given this is a cycling website and forum that’s supposedly for mountain bikers that’s a lot of none biking chats about not riding.
I am well aware of that thanks. Taking an instant snapshot of the overview shows that you have to go down 13 threads be for you get to one that’s about bikes or riding. Given this is a cycling website and forum that’s supposedly for mountain bikers that’s a lot of none biking chats about not riding.
If the bike industry would do its job and introduce a new standard every week then I'm sure you'd find the Bike section would be a lot busier. I guess there is just more new stuff happening in the world in general than new stuff happening in the bike industry.
Which is understandable since the subject of bikes is quite small while the subject of literally everything else in the universe is quite large.
Taking an instant snapshot of the overview shows that you have to go down 13 threads be for you get to one that’s about bikes or riding. Given this is a cycling website and forum that’s supposedly for mountain bikers that’s a lot of none biking chats about not riding.
The forum is user-driven, members create threads on subjects they want to talk about. If you want to only discuss bikes then go to the Bike sub-forum rather than the Overview. If you want to talk about something else then create your own thread. I don't see why you find this to be a difficult concept. Other websites are available also.
Threads are sorted by last post timestamp, a quick eyeball scan lists about 35 threads before I get to a freshness beyond "minutes." The first cycling thread on the Overview view is 4 minutes old, the next 6, the next 26. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Back when I had access to stats, the ratio of posts bike:chat was about 50:50. The chat forum generally has fewer but longer threads, but the absolute post count over the years tends towards parity.
Please can a word of explanation be given when threads are closed?
Probably not. It would be helpful if people could learn from mistakes thought.
I can't immediately see what was wrong with the recent 'fascists' thread, unless comments have been deleted.
Please can a word of explanation be given when threads are closed?
See page 1 of this thread.
Yeah, but I think you can see which posts have been REPORTed.
I can’t immediately see what was wrong with the recent ‘fascists’ thread, unless comments have been deleted.
Me neither, but someone didn't like one of your posts.
Me neither, but someone didn’t like one of your posts.
Film at 11. 😀
Ah, so now we know - we aren't allowed to be rude about people who vote Tory.
That seems unlikely from a forum oft accused of being full of hand-wringing lefties.
My post tweaking TJ's comment is still there. QED?