[Closed] Thread for people who want to debate the reaction to someone's death

Perfectly reasoned and sensible rant. Fail. 2/10.

(I completely agree BTW)

😯

This is a totally reasonable point. Why on earth anyone feels the need to get on the internet and slag off people having a bit of a wallow is beyond me.

Bowie's death is without the.most significant news story today

Trident renewal is months away and will be passed easily in the commons and fwiw has frade union support
Syria has been mired in a civil war for 4 years, whats new today ? (EDIT withoit doubt what is happening there is desperate but its cannot he headlines everybday)
China market is down again but european stock markets are little changed

The only new news story I can see is Corbyn's R4 interview and thats duller than dishwater

Agree OP.

Nice little rantage, 6/10 but no caps so you loose points.

As for the latest topic thread, well he did influence a lot of modern music and art, made some difference to some people out there, hardly a surprise to think there wouldn't be a thread though.

yeah the points were a bit loose.

I haven't read the Bowie thread because he meant nothing to me, I didn't like his music, or his acting and his death won't affect me. I didn't feel the need to share that with people who liked him. I presume others are commenting negatively and I understand.

I presume they, like myself find the massive outpouring of internet grief and fawning as disingenuous.

To give an example, when Lemmy died a former colleague of mine posted a pretty typical "R.I.P, what a legend, you will be missed, I live by these lyrics..." style post. This was a guy covered in band tattoos. On several occasions myself and another collegue had been singing Motörhead songs, and commented for him to join in, which was met with blank stares and questions about what we singing.

In other words, a lot of people on social media and forums seem to follow an almost preset grief behaviour meme when a celebrity dies, whether they genuinely liked them or not.

Think there is defo a bit of that going on jimjam. To the OP - it's called 'whataboutery' - it's pathetic and it happens ALL the ****ing time.

Agreed. I love his music, or most of it anyway. But will I miss him? No I never met him, didn't know him, I struggle to think of a way that his death will affect my life. The music lives on and will be cherished for ever more. Sad for the family, but people die every day.

"people die every day."

off of twitter:

"My son tells me 57000 other people have also died this morning. I like to imagine them all in a room whispering, "that's David Bowie"."

It's as if people are incapable of ignoring a thread that holds no interest for them.

Do these same people hang around outside a cinema showing a film they have no interest in, and then badger the patrons as they come out with questions like "why do they feel the need to see this rubbish film, when people are starving in Africa"???

(of course the answer is NO, because hanging around outside a cinema would take some effort and conviction whereas posting on a thread is easy and anonymous)

🙂

Surely it's acceptable to say "what a shame"? and "Oh I remember when..." or "Ooh, I'll play a couple of tracks later".

Some dick tweeted at Sky news this morning complaining that they were wrong to say they didn't want to hear from politicians regarding Bowies death as it was more important to hear from the artists and fans. He said that it is important to hear from politicians than bother about media personalities.

Some people are just born to be ****s

"My son tells me 57000 other people have also died this morning. I like to imagine them all in a room whispering, "that's David Bowie"."

Bowie's death is without the.most significant news story today

Assuming that was supposed to read "without a doubt".

And it isn't, not for those who are indifferent to it who, if we're honest, are probably as many folk that were indifferent to Lemmy. Perhaps for you but lets not pretend that the middle age plus age group that generally makes up the forum membership are representitive of the nation as a whole.

Nothing wrong with reporting it but there comes a point where it becomes a bit much, is it unreasonable to say that out loud?

squirrelking

Nothing wrong with reporting it but there comes a point where it becomes a bit much, is it unreasonable to say that out loud?

No, not at all.

Just turned on the news, Madonna is devastated apparently. Poor Madonna.

[quote=spekkie ]It's as if people are incapable of ignoring a thread that holds no interest for them.

THIS I have no idea what sort of person joins a thread just to say they dont like the topic r the people contributing

Just leave the thread alone self restraint and the interent dont go together do they.

In other words, a lot of people on social media and forums seem to follow an almost preset grief behaviour meme when a celebrity dies, whether they genuinely liked them or not.

I did have to turn the raido off though as I could listent to anymore of it as they were telling me what peole had tweeted as if this was news or infomrative - they were mainly sad becaus ehe was alegend- I know who could have guessed?

[i]Without some wazzock popping up and saying;

"yes, but what about the important stuff like Trident/Siria/the Chinese economy? Eh! Eh? You/the radio/the TV/my facebook feed have suddenly gone quiet on all of that for some trivial reason!"
[/i]

I assume you're referring to me as said wazzock.

As I said on the other thread, he was an incredible and influential artist (not my cup of teas as it happens, but there you go). It was the fawning on Radio 4 this morning that got my hump; it reminded me of Radio 1 when Michael Jackson died and I would have thought that Radio 4 should not be apeing Radio 1's journalistic style.

[i]THIS I have no idea what sort of person joins a thread just to say they dont like the topic r the people contributing[/i]

Have you nbeen here long? 🙂

The BBC is scrupulously impartial when it comes to news coverage. So when they devote large swathes of their output to the death of a pop star, it's important that they provide a balance of views.

So alongside the gushing eulogies, from people who didn't buy his latest album, I feel a responsibility to express my personal dislike of David Bowie.

I want it placed on public record that I found his music tinny. That I always thought he looked ridiculous. That behind the theatrics and revolving hairstyles, I found him to be a dull man.

[i]I assume you're referring to me as said wazzock.[/i]

you weren't the only, errm, disruptive voice on there and it happens every time a public figure people feel an emotional connection to dies.

It wasn;t intended to be a personal attack on you per se, just the whole 'here's some people sharing their emotions. I know I'll wade in and tell them how insignificant the thing they're upset by is in the scheme of things or start complainign about how some other social/broadcast media is dealing with it' approach.

I agree that the media tends to go overboard more and more (as 'quotes' from celebrities are so much easier to come by, in part) but I also think that maybe there's a time and a place to debate that and starting another thread was possibly a more sensitive way to open up a debate?

it could be a syrian childs face next.

more seriously - the thread was clearly marked, if you think there are more important topics to review, go do that*.

you might even find that STW isnt the best resource for those front line, cutting edge, politicoeconomic topic du jour.

*deliberately and aggressively pissing on someones grief, just because you dont share it, is trolling.

Extension of "Princess Di" syndrome exacerbated by social media

Cameron v Corbyn - who was the bigger fan? Who cares?

[RIP Bowie BTW and hope his family have the peace they need]

[i] I know I'll wade in and tell them how insignificant the thing they're upset by is in the scheme of things or start complainign about how some other social/broadcast media is dealing with it[/i]

I may be guilty of the latter, but definitely not the former.

wwaswas

you weren't the only, errm, disruptive voice on there and it happens [b]every time a public figure people feel an emotional connection to dies.[/b]

There's the issue. In today's media, every celebrity death is a tragedy and must be accompanied by an outpouring of #grief. If you know one or two songs by an artist or remember an actor as that guy from that one film, then you don't have an emotional connection (not you wwaswas), you're just following the herd or reacting to an obituary montage you saw on Breakfast TV.

it could be a syrian childs face next.

[i]I may be guilty of the latter, but definitely not the former. [/i]

as I said, it was a general garment not cut to fit only you.

"Please tell @BBCPM about your #Bowie memory. Email pm@bbc.co.uk including your contact details. Thanks."

An opportunity for those with a dissenting voice to make themselves heard?

Personally, I saw him at Wembley supported by Big Country. I actually preferred the latter on the day.

I reckon the tories bumped him off so we wouldn't notice Squeeze doing a protest song right in Cameron's face on live national TV.. Which should have been up there with the most newsworthy items today

Love Bowie now (thought he was a massive bender as a kid) but surely he was just the alternative Cliff? My facebook feed is ruined with people needing to say they liked Bowie's songs, just after we'd cleared out all the Lemmy dross..
This is pure class though..

Personally I see nothing wrong with mourning the loss of a public figure but also suggesting that maybe the level of coverage in the media is disproportionate or lacking in true meaning.

I found the public mourning and media coverage of the Princess of Wales, hugely annoying and lacking real meaning - I thought it was mawkish and actually disrespectful. To most people the death of a figure in the public eye is a tragedy for the family - but it's not a personal tragedy to people with a normal sense of attachment or proportion.

Strange tread is strange. The bbc don't do news anymore, even radio 4 has gone for the 30s news bite. Blame Twitter and it's 140.
Funerals will be on Facebook soon.

As a slight counter to the OP and particulalrly Jambanonsense, Here's what Bowie said via Tin Machine:

Baby doll
Baby doll
Clarity and power
There's more than money moving here
There's mindless maggot glare
Working horrors-humping Tories
Spittle on their chins
Carving up my children's future
Read 'em pal and grin

Raging raging raging
Burning in my room
C'mon and get a good idea
C'mon and get it soon
I'm waiting on the fire escape
I'm not exactly well
I'm neither red nor black nor white
I'm grey and blown to hell

Tin machine
Tin machine
Make some new computer thing
That puts me on the moon
Not this psycho-time-bomb planet
Poised to meet it's maker
Shake a leg

El-bent - Member

As a slight counter to the OP and particulalrly Jambanonsense, Here's what Bowie said via Tin Machine:

Baby doll
Baby doll
Clarity and power
There's more than money moving here
There's mindless maggot glare
Working horrors-humping Tories
Spittle on their chins
Carving up my children's future
Read 'em pal and grin

Raging raging raging
Burning in my room
C'mon and get a good idea
C'mon and get it soon
I'm waiting on the fire escape
I'm not exactly well
I'm neither red nor black nor white
I'm grey and blown to hell

Tin machine
Tin machine
Make some new computer thing
That puts me on the moon
Not this psycho-time-bomb planet
Poised to meet it's maker
Shake a leg

Deep shit. Makes you think. RIP Gremlin King.

Deep shit. Makes you think.

What, are you a coldplay fan or something? 😉

If you know one or two songs by an artist or remember an actor as that guy from that one film, then you don't have an emotional connection (not you wwaswas), you're just following the herd or reacting to an obituary montage you saw on Breakfast TV.

Who put you in charge of the whole world's emotions? What if that one song was your wedding dance, or the one on the radio when your parent dropped dead, or was playing when you heard that your parent dropped dead, or the film you used to watch with your family every Christmas as a kid. People make connections where they are - you don't have to pass an exam in order to be qualified to be touched by someone's departure.

Hell, it can just be a reminder of your own mortality when people who weren't old when you were first aware of them are now oldies falling off the perch..

As for the OP, I'm not quite sure what the complaint exactly is from the way it's phrased - if it's people complaining that there's a thread on STW and all we should be talking about is how gun control will impact on starving Syrian babies, then absolutely, do one or start your own Syrian babies thread.

But if people are commenting on the serious news media prioritising a dead singer over the starving Syrian babies in their news running orders, than imho that's legitimate comment.

If the complaint is that people shouldn't comment on that fact (the news media agenda) on those (RIP) threads then I'm kinda agnostic. A feature of David Bowie's passing that is noteworthy, surely, is that it has relegated some of those other news items to "also today" status, and I can't see that that fact can't be covered, including some criticism of it, it's just a perspective. That's as legitimate as anyone else's, including any "I'm distraught and had to go home from work when I heard" ones (and any in between).

You know what I think is unnecessary and quite ****y on here? People feeling the need to start threads criticising or "satirising" other threads. I'm half expecting to go back to the home page and find "Thread for people who want to debate threads debating the reaction to someone's death" or perhaps some sort of punning one based on the original, probably involving fish.

@edlong - I took it that the OP was/is annoyed by the need for people to "hijack" a thread in which, should you feel the need, you can express your sadness at the passing of someone you admired, for example. A hijack like that is quite normal these days and quite sad really. You may be annoyed at the level of coverage and you may want to jump in with the "whataboutery" stuff but it is unnecessary and just a bit crass IMO and they should be the ones starting a new thread.

EDIT - Mitchell and Webb - funny as ever!

I don't own any Bowie tunes and i'm neither here nor there on his death but I've been listening to 6music since 8.30 this morning and i'm surprised by how many bowie songs i know - some i like (we could be heroes for instance) and others i'm not bothered about but the one thing i've gathered from the bowie discography so far is that he has been releasing music (often experimental/non commercial) for my entire lifespan (I was born : 1972) so as i have an unexpected day off from work i will have a listen to as much of his musical output as i can find from my year of birth through to his latest release.

I'm sure i'll find some gems that will trigger memories of where/when i initially heard them.

That Mitchell and Webb clip should be a trailer for the Jeremy Vine Show

edlong

Who put you in charge of the whole world's emotions? What if that one song was your wedding dance, or the one on the radio when your parent dropped dead, or was playing when you heard that your parent dropped dead, or the film you used to watch with your family every Christmas as a kid. People make connections where they are - you don't have to pass an exam in order to be qualified to be touched by someone's departure.

Then your connection to that person is tenuous to say the least, and to say that you're devastated, grief stricken, shocked or any other hyperbolic statement you choose to make is in my opinion shallow and fatuous at best and shows a complete lack of perspective.

If people have that kind of reaction to the death of someone they've never met, who they didn't know, who merely sang their wedding song or whatever, then how do they cope with the death of someone they actually know and love? It's bullshit. It's media generated, superficial shit.

If you're a genuine lifelong Bowie fan then of course you would be saddened by his death. Saddened. As in "that's a bit sad" as opposed to an inability to stop crying, needing to take a week off work to deal with it.....

your mum's bullshit

Er, your post to which I was responding (and which I quoted) said

have an emotional connection

As self-appointed police of the world's emotions, where did that become

devastated, grief stricken, shocked or any other hyperbolic statement

?

Enough hypotheticals, here's mine:

John Peel, the Radio DJ. Yes, I know, I wasn't aware of that aspect of his personal life history when he was every indie kid's favourite hairy uncle on the radio. I did used to listen to him on the radio, a lot, over a lot of years. His broadcasts were part of my life. Then he died. I wasn't

devastated

grief stricken

shocked

Then, a while later I had a moment like that one where someone reannounced the 7/7 bombings on here after hearing a re-broadcast of the news from the day out of context.

I turned on the radio and, as had been the case maybe hundreds of times in my life, the voice of John Peel came over the airways.

It was so normal that I completely forgot the guy was dead until, at the end of the excerpt from what I think was his final show, it went back to whoever was hosting the tribute and I re-experienced the experience of "oh bugger, yeah, Peel's dead!" but this time, it actually hit me a bit harder, probably because I'd just allowed myself to briefly get back into the groove of listening to Peel on the radio, and then it was immediately ripped away from me again.

I didn't know the guy personally, I never met him, and from what I've read, i may well not have liked him if I had, but because of what he did, and the investment I had in that at a formative stage of my life, his voice on the radio meant something to me, and, yes, there was an emotional connection. No hyperbole, no devastation, and no need for permission from random people on the internet to feel whatever I damn well want about something.

perhaps there should be a grief thread and a relief thread for those who liked him and those who didn't?

I too like to belittle others' emotional connections on the internet. Particularly, by likening them to the eejits laying flowers after Diana's death. I dunno, it makes me feel manly and cold inside and gives me a sense of getting back to Victorian values where a stiff upper lip was still a valued facial feature.

John Peel was one of those great examples of people that you would never meet but sure you would get along with if you did. When he went it was a truly sad day again, somebody I had spent so many evenings listening to, or for most teenagers in a pre internet world he was there chatting with us, somebody who's passion was always worn proud and shared around. Like your cool uncle who takes you to the pub.

In a John Peel theme I'm sat listening to the last Bowie album in bed wearing headphones (midnight here) just like we used to do when we were kids. Hard to place the fact that you feel somebody could have been around and making music throughout your life, if they did a film then they would get on the soundtrack. Looking at the weeks news it's one of the more significant cultural events of the week.

[quote=deadlydarcy ]I too like to belittle others' emotional connections on the internet. Particularly, by likening them to the eejits laying flowers after Diana's death. I dunno, it makes me feel manly and cold inside and gives me a sense of getting back to Victorian values where a stiff upper lip was still a valued facial feature.

Indeed- though I did mention Diana in my post 😳

The OP's comical foot-stamping passive aggressive tantrum is (partially) based on my post which was:

konabunny - Member
It's sad. But it's mental that this is the "main news" on R4 Today and they're reading out Joel Madden and Russell Crowe's RIP tweets ffs.

If anywhere is the right place to talk about Syrian children's faces and other serious news stories, it's the Today programme. True, it's always had light-hearted/spiritual inserts (TFTD, which reminds me I should have left home by then), and obviously they were going to mention it, but the main news should be - you know - today's main news in the world, or at least the country. If it was the breakfast show on R6, then obviously it's going to be all Bowie, all the time, which is fine.

And there is never an excuse for reading out celeb reaction tweets.

deadlydarcy

you alright, hun?

I hope we get helicopter footage following Bowie's funeral cortege around, streamed live 24/7 ala Cilla Black. It's the only fitting way to honour a #nationaltreasure.

but the main news should be - you know - today's main news in the world, or at least the country

PM pledges extra mental health support
Foster to become new NI first minister
Labour's McKinnell quits shadow cabinet
Music legend David Bowie dies
Britons jailed over firearms charges
RAF uses Brimstone missiles against IS
VIDEO: Welby warns on split over homosexuality
HMRC chief executive to quit post
England coach Sampson signs new deal
Injury rules Steyn out of third Test

No doubt the middle east will be back where it belongs tomorrow, front and center. As it has been for the last fifty years.

I done sex with David Bowie once..
Warm Gruyere cheese came out of his pores and went into my mouth at my point of climax.. It was one of the most intense sexual experiences of my life

I was repulsed, ashamed and elated in equal measure.. It was truly magnificent

You strange man...

I think chewkw should always be allowed to say he's only heard 2 (exactly 2, no more, no less) of the dead person's songs.
It's like a tradition.

[i]I done sex with David Bowie once..[/i]

You just reminded me - I had sex to the instrumental side of Low once (not with Bowie, with my girlfriend). We had my dad's disco lights going too. It was good.
(no cheese though)

(no cheese though)

Not till you put Chris de Burgh on afterwards.

Well, you've got to have a come-down.

I think it's well established that all news should only be about the single most important thing to have happened today, in the same vein as nobody's allowed to complain about anything if anyone in the world is worse off.

wwaswas - Member

"My son tells me 57000 other people have also died this morning. I like to imagine them all in a room whispering, "that's David Bowie"."

That's genius, cheers!