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The plan of leaving the kitchen until last in the great house refit has been changed due to the recent condemning of our 1980's range style oven/hob by the gas board. Apparently, letting gas out of the hob jets even while they're turned off is a bad thing (it's 'elf and safety goorn maaad I tells ya).
So, plan is to get the builders in to widen the doorway from the utility into the kitchen to make it into one big room, and also possibly widen the doorway from the kitchen into the dining room and insert foldy doors so the whole thing could be one big room, but also possible to shut the door to keep cooking smells from drifting up the stairs (which come off the dining room). Naturally, both the walls in question are load bearing...
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...and then refit the lot with a shiny new kitchen.
So, anyway, all that is a long way of getting to the point of:
1) Just how tricky/expensive is making bigger holes in load bearing wall likely to be?
2) which kitchens bought in trade type places (like Howdens, Wickes etc) do you Kitchen Fitter types recommend? What about *shudder* Ikea?
3) Any recomendations for someone to do the job in Cirencester?
As you know, we're going through building works.
I can answer question 1 with "more than you'd hoped it would be".
DrP
I hope not, 'cos I'm already expecting it to be an expensive pain in the arse...
1) I have a piece of string. What is its length ? Also, wot DrP said.
2) I fitted some Wickes kitchen units a while back, about 2006 IIRC, they were cheap but they're still standing. Since then we've had units from Howdens & Jewsons. Both very similar, both a lot better than Wickes, and obviously more expensive. Jewsons will deal with the public. I think Howdens is trade-only.
2a) Not kitchens but bedrooms, we had our bedroom done and got an independent guy to make everything. The price came out similar to quotes we'd had from Sharps etc. but they would only do pre-set carcass sizes with infills to make up the gaps whereas our stuff was made to [i]exactly[/i] our spec. There must be equivalent kitchen fitters ?
which kitchens bought in trade type places (like Howdens, Wickes etc) do you Kitchen Fitter types recommend? What about *shudder* Ikea?
I looked at all the above and ended up fitting an Ikea kitchen in january. Turned out well and I'm happy with it. A point to bear in mind is anyone with an ikea kitchen over about 1 yr old will have the old system, which has changed substantially to the new system.
The quality of Ikea/howdens/wickes all seemed fairly comparable, the differences are mostly in the dimensions of things, so one may fit your design better than the others. Key points to consider:
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[*] The widths the different cabinets come in are different, e.g. ikea are 20/40/60/80. Wickes do 50/100s etc.
[*] Howdens cabinets come built, ikea are flat pack. This isn't a big deal as assembling a carcass takes no time.
[*] Ikea cabinets are deeper than "normal" and so need a deeper worktop (64cm), so if you go elsewhere for the top account for this.
[*] Ikea cabinets are very deep, and low off the ground, so services pretty much have to run under them, and there's not much space. Wickes/howdens have service space at the back. This may or may not matter. But...
[*] Because of the above two points, Ikea cabs have massive space inside them.
[*] Ikea soft-close drawer runners (not made by ikea) are ace.
[*] Ikea do really tall wall cabs, I have 100s fitted.
[*] Plan Plan plan and plan some more, the more time spent planning the better IMO and this was the key to getting everything right, quickly and easily (therefore cheaply).
[*] Did I mention planning? Think about the electrics too, may be worth rewiring some of the rest of the house whilst you're at it.
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I fitted my kitchen myself, took a week off work to do it. Can offer additional tips if you plan to DIY. There's pretty much no upper limit on a kitchen's cost, and expect fitting to be about the same as the cost of the bits again.
I fitted an IKEA kitchen just before Christmas.
Pretty easy to do. Good quality. Perfectly happy with it.
Got their built in dishwasher, microwave and coffee machine (3 separates not an all in one, before anyone starts! 😉 ) Very good pieces of kit made by Whirlpool, with a 5 year guarantee.
One of the clock digits on the microwave died after a couple of months, they sent an engineer out to fix it within a week. Great service.
Fitted the LED lights that come on when you open the cupboards too. Nice touch and actually surprisingly useful.
Got the IKEA solid oak worktops. Had to have custom made sizes. Excellent quality and look beautiful oiled up. Didn't like the IKEA oak splashbacks though, so sourced some 4"x1" oak and made my own.
I bought a gas/electric range cooker and hood, and an american style fridge freezer separately from a different supplier.
Most importantly, SWMBO is very happy with it (and with my handiwork too!).
Opening up between the kitchen and utility looks to be good a good plan but you'll still end up with nibs projecting inward, you can minimise this by using steel stanchions instead of block (which could be anything up too 600mm!). You may also need to dig additional pads to do this as the foundations will probably not support it. opening up a bit could probably done with catnic but depends on the load above. Cost wise, steel isnt too expensive but the physical work will be quite bit and the mess will be significant. You'll definitely need a structural engineer to be on the safe side and they quite often will be able to guide you as to the differing approaches. Im not a builder but last year I had pretty much the entire lower half of the gable end removed and supported on steel and using stanchions was definitely the best way for us.
1) can be very simple - it's usually made more complicated by electrics / pipes / radiators that are in the way though. And it'll be messy.
2) Don't shudder at the thought of Ikea - my Ikea units were good value, easy to build and fit, and haven't got a mark on them after 2.5 years, in a heavily used family kitchen. One door was delivered damaged but replaced without fuss very quickly, and there was some issue with the size of a decor panel but this was again sorted without fuss. I'd recommend.
3) Pass
I'lld sell up and move.
There are ways to save money if you are prepared to do some of the legwork.
e.g. we paid a builder £100 to install a steel but I bought the beam, sorted out the building control, knocked the wall down and got rid of the rubble.
Very happy with the Ikea kitchen we then purchased to go in the space. We paid to move our gas supply below plinth level due to the lack of service gap but this was a tiny cost compared to how much we saved versus getting a kitchen elsewhere.
Got their built in dishwasher, microwave and coffee machine (3 separates not an all in one, before anyone starts! ) Very good pieces of kit made by Whirlpool, with a 5 year guarantee.
Bear in mind this is almost obligatory - Ikea carcasses hold a restricted range of appliances (very when it comes to dishwashers at least) - we were told in store ours would fit, Ikea fitter said no. I had a very bad experience with Ikea, loved the kitchen so persevered longer than I should have, but binned them in the end. Lots of other fitters were sniffy about fitting them too, due to not having a utilities gap, that may or may not be an issue for you. Worktop size is very important to take into account cost wise. A simple fit as a DIY they are a decent option.
Builders love Howdens as they are pre built and have a great support network for spares / extra bits when needed. Good if you have a builder and like one of their kitchens.
Wickes are pricy, even in one of their 'sales' and not as good quality as Howdens.
We went for Cooke & Lewis from B&Q - timing it right got us a good standard fit kitchen at a very near Ikea price. Worktops from worktop-express.co.uk, appliances from wherever (ao.com for the range), floor from some internet stone warehouse
[img] https://flic.kr/p/srmmhG [/img]
You mean like this 😉
I doubt the picture will work though.
Fitted loads of Howdens kitchens, don't bother they're cr*p. Whilst you may save a bit of time because the carcasses are ready built you've got to find somewhere to put them before they're installed. Anything big like larder units will be so wobbly by the time you get them because they've been moved around a few times and are far too heavy and awkward to move for their lack of rigidity. Every single order has had wrong bits which has entailed hassle trying to sort it out. Their prices are nowhere near as cheap as they were which went some way towards putting up with the aggro.
The kitchen I put in my own home - a Wickes one. The carcasses have solid backs and are well sturdy. Drawer packs good quality and solid.
I'd guess at £2.5k for knocking the wall through and making good. Very messy job, but pretty straightforward. You're unlikely to have flush walls at the end unless the end walls are very sturdy.
We have been trying to do something vaguely similar - knock down load-bearing wall and build a box on the back - but costs quoted have been astronomical and no idea why. Start at 45k, keep going to 80k. Either we look like mugs or the builders round our way can afford to pick and choose. So frustrating - and I don't think we have daft expectations. Hope it goes better for you.
I think we were quoted 1.5k for a builder to do the whole install but with no making good. Instead it cost us 400, that's for a 2.8m span.
We looked at all the usual suspects but eventually went with DIYkitchens.com. They have a massive showroom in Pontefract and were comparable in price with Howdens but without the BS. Oak tops came from worktop-express.
DIYkitchens.com
Just visited their showroom on Saturday to check out the quality and was really impressed. We'll be ordering our kitchen from them after I've finished all the planning.
Take a look at Wren Kitchens as well, the last two I've fitted have been excellent.
Nobody else could beat their prices either, even with trade discounts.
Cheers all
[i]You're unlikely to have flush walls at the end unless the end walls are very sturdy[/i]
Probably not an issue; a small nib by the back door isn't the end of the world, and the other end can be supported by two other walls (doesn't really show on the floorplan) so may be able to go flush back anyway
Careful with wren, they are cheap and decent quality, but I know 2 people who cancelled after several missed delivery dates
All I do is fit kitchens.
Ikea - fitted one and said never again.
Wickes - not bad quality but, as with b&q etc. your at their mercy once you've paid and nearly every one I've fitted has had problems. Missing items, bad designs and general headaches. Try to stay clear these days.
Howdens - fitted hundreds of them, great for builders as there stock and deadlines don't matter. Wouldn't have one in my house as there is better products for the money. They used to be cheap when MFI was around (they were owned by the same company) but not any more.
The best advice that been given is to use DIY-kitchens, I use their parent company (they do credit terms, better range of sizes and a few different styles, etc.) Quality is spot on and prices are very good.
That DIYkitchens looks alright, will remember that one for the future. Always thought Ikea were pretty good (have used them to cheaply add a few carcasses to re-rig my kitchen) and they feel a bit more modern and seem to cost less than the big DIY places.
The appliance thing and other slight differences puts me off though and for that reason I probably wouldnt go with it for my main house but for a quick cheap kitchen in a flat or something I think ikea is hard to beat for cost.
DIY kitchens added to 'house ideas' bookmark folder 🙂
DrP