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St Georges day or not - its still flagshagging
was this a joke or are you saying you think that displaying the national flag in the national building of government on the national day is flag shagging?
Yes. Its the over use - one flag not enough? Sit at a desk with a dozen flags. Its flagshagging for sure.
Its a relatively new phenomenon that one flag is not enough - you have to be surrounded by them and his words just compound it
What happened to a modest display ? You know - the british way. Modest and understated
https://bsky.app/profile/hooved-mammal.bsky.social/post/3lxtm3hcffk2a
Yvette Cooper loving up the flags.
Absolute nasty piece of work this one.
https://bsky.app/profile/theguardian.com/post/3lxs4bg6faz2i
Flags would be absolutely fine if the country was doing well. But there's nothing to celebrate.
What happened to a modest display ? You know - the british way. Modest and understated
I was in the cubs in the 80s, there was nothing modest about St George’s Day celebrations and parades. It’s all much more toned down these days… probably as a result of the rise in St George flag use for intimidation rather than celebration since then.
You can see why Labour have tried so hard to “reclaim” both the Union and St George flags (and that’s not a new thing), but it doesn’t look to be working this time (arguable it did to a certain extent in the early years of the Blair/Brown governments).
I reckon that more and more mainstream parties will adopt more and more anti-immigration policies because its what more and more people in this country want.
It's a key part to dumbing down the country - the past few years have seen them start to make it harder for overseas students to study at Universities. This is costing the higher education sector (foreign students don't have fees capped so are a nice money makes for unis), as due to underfunding by the govt combined with static tuition fees we will see more unis go in adminsitration & completely disappear.
I take it this isn't one of Enid Blyton's better known books
This didn't get the acknowledgement it deserved.
Flags would be absolutely fine if the country was doing well. But there's nothing to celebrate.
The problem is that when everything is going swimmingly, nobody tends to be looking to nationalism and populism for ‘answers’. They only do that when everything is tits up
The fact that in this case the nationalists are to blame for a lot of the counties ills, with Brexit and the subsequent chaos seems lost on the hard of thinking.
Farage and co are, to a large extent, responsible for the mess they’re now saying they’ve got the solution to
I was in the cubs in the 80s, there was nothing modest about St George’s Day celebrations and parades. It’s all much more toned down these days… probably as a result of the rise in St George flag use for intimidation rather than celebration since then.
My experience is very much the opposite - in the 80s I lived in England and never saw any st Georges day celebrations.
The problem is that when everything is going swimmingly, nobody tends to be looking to nationalism and populism for ‘answers’. They only do that when everything is tits up
To a point for sure.
But flags are more than populism and nationalism. My main recollection of them is pure celebration when I was a kid - silver Jubilee etc.
And you could argue things have been tits up for a long while. Before Farage even.
There's many confluences here.
The problem is that when everything is going swimmingly, nobody tends to be looking to nationalism and populism for ‘answers’. They only do that when everything is tits up
To a point for sure. And it's worth mentioning that people have gotten to the tits up stage at different periods in the last few years/decades.
But flags are more than populism and nationalism. My main recollection of them is pure celebration when I was a kid - silver Jubilee etc.
There's many confluences here.
agreed, I don't ever recall st Georges day ever being celebrated, it must have been mentioned at some point as I know the story of him slaying the dragon, but I don't think I ever saw a flag of st George, I do remember the silliness of the silver jubilee though.
I don't even recall the st georges cross being associated with football much, I am pretty sure the flag for England matches was much more likely to be the union jack back then.
I don't ever recall st Georges day ever being celebrated
If you were Cubs / Scouts / Brownies / Guides it was, often a church service and parade with flags. I can remember being flag bearer 40 years ago and getting piss wet through as we weren't allowed coats over our uniforms. It was a thing, along with Morris dancing, Maypoles and other quaint English customs.
Even in football the St George flags thing is quite new. Check out England crowd photos from the 60s and 70s, I can't find any flags. But by 2001 they were in evidence:
Silver jubilee? My memories of that are an outpouring of anti royalist anti establishment feeling. I suspect being an adult in an multicultural / counterculture area might have something to do with why my recollections are so different
In an age of simple political messaging, the Left's view on immigration is incoherent and confused. We're happy to be critical of UK emigres to southern Spain who don't learn Spanish, continue to hold UK bank accts, drink and eat at English run restaurants and bars, read UK language newspapers and watch EastEnders on Satellite TV, but criticism of Punjabi, or Hindu communities in the UK who are equally poorly integrated is intolerant or borderline racist. The left is suspicious of patriotism or nationalism so immigrants are left wondering what it is they're meant to celebrate about their new home , 'Flag-shagger' is a uniquely left-wing insult hurled on this thread at a Labour PM, who the left are equally happy to criticise for his lack of policies to combat Farage.
"Do something to recapture our flag from racists"
"I'll display them in my office, and speak about how great the UK is"
"No. Not like that"
One of the most popular arguments on the left for migration is economic, and yet the far-left on this forum will happily tell anyone who'll listen that Capitalism is evil and needs to be abandoned; so economic activity from migrants; good thing, anyone else; bad thing...
The Right has no such confusion about this subject.
Wembley 1966:
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-england-v-west-germany-1966-world-cup-final-wembley-stadium-109465408.html
Lots of Union flags, a couple of St George Crosses.
Also a very brave German waving their flag in the England section!
The probable reason you cannot find '70s pictures of England football crowds with flags is that England were so shit the team never made it to any tournaments 🙂
"I'll display them in my office, and speak about how great the UK is"
Its the english flag not the UK one
Can I just say thank you to the more reasonable discussion on here, I've come here for a bit of sanity. I live on the next road to one of the highly flagged areas that has been mentioned earlier. A flag on every lamp post for about 2 miles. The local facebook group was full of lots of "big up to the flag guys" comments for putting them up. I foolishly thought someone should say that maybe not everyone would see it as the celebration of patriotism that they may think it is as flags have been hijacked by people wanting to sow division in communities so it is quite intimidating. I hope better worded than that but I'm not checking. Didn't call anybody racist as I figure people don't listen if they get their hate up.
Urgh The first response was such an angry racist "Tommy Robinson says it like it is" word salad that would have given me a full house on a racist bingo card. You could almost hear the spittle as they shouted it.
I'd like to respond but to be honest, even though I was expecting it, it shook me. I'm afraid I'm going to take the cowards way out and block the group. So much for standing up to racism.
I used to think it was quite a reasonable area, not affluent but not rough either. Now I've seen a side to my neighbours I really don't like.
As a dual national I don't have any problem with immigrants owning their duality. Taking on what you like from the new culture and keeping what you like from the old one. I've learnt the language where ever I've lived for any time so speak fluent French and German and get by in Spanish, so do pretty much all immigrants to the UK with the possible exception of the 80-year-old grandparents who joined their children late in life. In my adult life I've eaten in English restaurants in England three times IIRC. I love the diversity Immigration has brought and prefer a Balti to anything else when I visit Brum. Immigrants and their diverse cultures enrich a country in my view. Integration doesn't mean behaving exactly like the natives, it just means contributing positively to the general good and not giving anyone any shit.
The left is suspicious of patriotism
Sorry but this is utter nonsense. Its just the left idea of patriotism doesnt match the right wing virtue signalling version of patriotism. Flag shagging is looked at with confusion because its simply not a British thing to do but has been imported, in a slightly ironic multicultural way, from other countries. The problem is the people who seem keenest on it are those trying to give an image of patriotism rather than demonstrating it in action.
Now if you want confused then just look at the right. You have the Daily mail (is Rothermere still French for tax reasons despite being a proud patriot?) with its articles (which you have just aped) ranting about how the left are suspicious of patriotism and are against Britain and then the rest of its articles going on about how everyone is leaving "labour Britain" and "lawless london" and so forth.
Just go and look at it for a paper that really hates the UK and does its best to do us down.
The Right has no such confusion about this subject.
Again complete and utter nonsense. You really are just repeating the hard right attack lines (mostly nowadays written by someone so patriotic they have ****ed off to Dubai or similar). That you use "The Right" shows you really havent understood the issue.
Remember the right under Johnson helped increase migration, the right during brexit promised increased migration from Asia (to select groups). That the right wing rags now lie about it doesnt mean the right are united. It just means they just lie. I was going to say since they aint patriotic but given the ownership of the rags they might be patriotic to their actual owners countries.
I wonder if the EDL forming in 2009 gave more momentum to the St. George's flag being used by racists?
Quite literally in the name opposed to BNP/BF, C18, and NF. From a cursory Google they all seems to use the UJ at marches, C18 used inverted colours.
We have similar although perhaps slightly less extreme issues with our local FB group.
It has community rules about hate speech and how you interact with others.
I posted a screenshot of said rules back to the group with some very polite reminders that by being in you need to abide.
I know this sounds a bit lightweight but I hope it served as some reminder to the nicer/more moderate members of the group that not everyone is ranty, sweary and intolerant.
Mods to the group responded positively as did many members. Although one of the usual big hitters decided to pick a fight in the comments by throwing around personal insults against one other member of the community within about an hour. Point, missed.
"Do something to recapture our flag from racists"
"I'll display them in my office, and speak about how great the UK is"
"No. Not like that"
I agree this is a very difficult issue. The Georges cross does need to be reclaimed from the racists. The Mosque that had one put up on their building and then took pictures of themselves proudly holding it is the way to go perhaps
A PM pandering to racists, following a nasty anti immigrant policy and surrounding himself with multiple flags feels off to me. the racist can and will use that to bolster their position
I have no real suggestion apart from flying it at multicultural events
In an age of simple political messaging
Not at all, its still the same old wilderness of mirrors, except most of the mirrors are the bendy ones used by clowns.
It's a key part to dumbing down the country - the past few years have seen them start to make it harder for overseas students to study at Universities. This is costing the higher education sector (foreign students don't have fees capped so are a nice money makes for unis), as due to underfunding by the govt combined with static tuition fees we will see more unis go in adminsitration & completely disappear.
Agreed.
Also, consider the VAT on independent school fees. There are many parents who could barely afford to send their kids there (some re-mortgaging in order to try to improve outcomes for their kids), who now face a tough choice.
Lower intake has led to staff redundancies at various institutions.
I'm not sure what the game plan is there.
Any nation who currently needs migrants could have planned ahead to encourage an increase in birth rates a LONG time ago.
Why? That all suggests that someone born here is preferable to someone who was not. Why?
Absolutely not. I'm 100% pro immigration, but:
1) It can create problems/shortages in other countries (depending on who we pinch, and how many). Remember, it's not just the UK who needs them, other countries face the an age distribution problem too. Potentially we're just moving the problem elsewhere.
2) If political parties are going to roll over (caving in to populists and racists), how the hell are they going to keep services running?
So the solution: Openly (and falsely) encourage populist anti-immigration rhetoric... but manage NHS staff shortages through a secret tunnel, hoping nobody notices. 😂
I reckon that more and more mainstream parties will adopt more and more anti-immigration policies because its what more and more people in this country want.
Is it though? I honestly think that anyone who is happy with the status quo is just quietly getting on with things without making a fuss. They don't have the motivation to make themselves heard in the same way that angry lunatics (with dad issues) do...
Also, a fair proportion of the vote will come retired folk who watch GB news. They won't be around forever.
I am taking a pair of cable cutters out with me and removing any offending flags I come across, which I don't have to climb to.reach.
I say replace them with EU flags. That'll wind them up!!
"Also, a fair proportion of the vote will come retired folk who watch GB news. They won't be around forever."
I've been hearing variations of this since I was 12. You're right, they won't be around forever. However, they will be replaced by new retired folk who watch GB news.
"I say replace them with EU flags. That'll wind them up!!"
So EU flag-shagging is good then?
One of the most popular arguments on the left for migration is economic, and yet the far-left on this forum will happily tell anyone who'll listen that Capitalism is evil and needs to be abandoned; so economic activity from migrants; good thing, anyone else; bad thing...
Thats a rather amusing post in it’s absurdity , keep it up Nick, I need a decent giggle to myself every now and then these days
"I say replace them with EU flags. That'll wind them up!!"
So EU flag-shagging is good then?
If it raises blood pressure to the point of “pop” then it’s a win/win situation
Wish someone would remove the one hanging from the truck on the bridge over the A3. I'm going that way late tonight, but haven't got any tools to do it! 😡