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Kind of passed me by as I'd not seen anything local, but tonight a local FB page has shown some St George's flags being displayed in Derby and the comments are really making me think this is going to go badly wrong.
Our area (not actually in Derby) was the heartland of the BNP back in the day and while it's nothing like it was 25 years ago when we moved up here, the political move to the right has emboldened those right wing supporters.
Seems to be a really large number of folks on SM blindly supporting the "patriots" with these flags, lots of talk about wanting to stage a march or protest. Starting to make me think there's a real powder keg building that won't need much of a spark for an idiot (potentially on either side) to do something tragically stupid. Especially with a boozy bank holiday coming up.
Tell me it's just my anxiety overreacting.
It'll fizzle out over the autumn/winter. Stay off SM, or at least the bits of it where these mouthbreathers congregate and much of your anxiety will evaporate.
Oh I know most of it is just FB posturing, but give enough monkeys a keyboard and one might surprise us all.
Its fascinating looking at the reporting in the mail.
Along the lines of Turkish soldiers flag is torn down whilst Palestinian flags stay up for months accompanied by photos of Palestinian flags.
Before addressing way past the point most people will have fallen asleep that after several months eg in the past the Palestinian flags were taken down from street posts etc after various people complained.
So seems like people whinged until a policy was put in place that random flags stuck up on streetposts etc should be taken down as soon as is convenient.
Now people (the venn diagram is probably very close to a circle) are complaining that the flag they like is being taken down.
Past a bridge on the way to Brighton with a couple of George Crosses, one on each side… Do I need to know what its about, or something to ignore?
Birmingham is awash with the things.
Ahh yes, the George cross, the internationaly recognised symbol of English racism! lol
It's a good indicator of where not to buy a house if you're in the market! 🤣
Ahh yes, the George cross, the internationaly recognised symbol of English racism! lol
Judging by social media comments/posters in the local area also widely associated with homophobia, transphobia and xenophobia and total intolerance of anyone who disagrees with you.
There was a proliferation of flags at prominent locations during Pride along with a lot of SM fuss about how councils shouldn't support pride and diversity. In recent weeks they're all over street furniture and road bridges accompanied by various intolerant "look at the flags and be British" posts on SM.
In a number of areas it looks like the sad neglected remnants of a football team parade but with an undercurrent of go away if you're not like us.
I don’t see what the problem is. Hasn’t the Ingerland flag always been associated with peace and inclusivity and those who like to wave it about are ambassadors for this great nation, with their exemplary behavior, particularly when traveling abroad?
As an aside are there more mobility scooters in high flag areas?
My mum is in a care home in Eastbourne and overlooks a main road. As we sat chatting the number of scooters was noticeable compared to when I look out my shop window in a fairly affluent area.
Let's pick the worst bits of Northern Irish culture and bring them to England...
It's a shame those "patriots" don't do something more constructive with their time and effort.
I'm with the op in this, seems like we're reaching boiling point, wish I'd moved to rural France years ago like my brother, really don't want to be part of what England appears to be coming.
I am waiting for the M.E.G.A hats to appear.
As someone posted on another thread,flags in gardens can give you an advance warning.
I don’t see what the problem is. Hasn’t the Ingerland flag always been associated with peace and inclusivity and those who like to wave it about are ambassadors for this great nation, with their exemplary behavior, particularly when traveling abroad?
I think it's great that at this time of rising concern about nationalism, so many people are celebrating a Turkish guy.
Which I think may be my default position on these SM posts.
If i could be bothered I’d be adding a Palastine flag next to each one near me, then starting a SM campaign saying that the St Georges flag stands for our Solidarity with recognising Palestine
It's a shame those "patriots" don't do something more constructive with their time and effort.
Why do I fear "constructive" in this context would mean coastal artillery along the Eastern front coast.
For balance I meet many decent humans every day but turning the tide against what is effectively a pseudo religious fervour / ideology is at best difficult when your nature is to "play nice".
Afaik, people east of Eastern Europe find it highly amusing that the English claim St. George as their own!
The people putting up the flags are looking for a reaction. Don't give them one.
I am waiting for the M.E.G.A hats to appear.
Pronounced as "meagre", which is fitting.
As someone posted on another thread,flags in gardens can give you an advance warning.
Especially when it's a Union Flag and upside down.
When we get asked for St George’s day cards in the shop I explain that we prefer to celebrate St Alban, a proper English saint.
Therefore out gammoning any gammon outrage.
As an aside since brexit the amount of communion cards sold has plummeted to none. Well done Mr Farage in making ingerland a fortress of Christianity.
The people putting up the flags are looking for a reaction. Don't give them one.
Sadly,we are not the demographic they are flying for.
They will get exactly the reaction required from the 'like minded' tribesmen
Especially when it's a Union Flag and upside down.Doesn't that just mean the householder is trying to get sudocrem off their cat XL Bully?
Highly likely.
Are they not just left up after the women's Euros and now gearing for the Women's Rugby Union World Cup starting today then?!?!
Seriously though. Its a shame that anyone flying the England flag is assumed to be racist or xenophobic, but I get that the idiots hanging them off lamp posts at the minute are not sports fans! It just doesn't seem to generate the same feeling when people have USA*, French, Dutch or German flags flying in their houses or on campsites in Spain, and they're all definitely used by the same sort of people waving St George crosses or Union Flags around at the moment over here.
Right wing ****ers from every country use their own flag to emphasise their own agendas.
*Unless accompanied by a MAGA hat...
What i'm really hoping for is the Muslim Council of Great Britain etc to also adopt this idea. Get all the mosques and surrounding areas to fly the St George flag. Get the asylum seekers in their 5* luxury tax payer funded hotels to hang them out of the windows. After all we are all living in England aren't we?
The symbol and meaning behind it would become redundant instantly.
What's the next step, painting all the kerb stones red, white and blue? Seems such a waste of flags, they'll be none left for the next world cup!
Blackflsg is absolutely spot-on !
Sadly,we are not the demographic they are flying for.
They will get exactly the reaction required from the 'like minded' tribesmen
That's my concern, and why I was so surprised quite how much it was whipping up the hard of thinking
This weird obsession with flags is certainly amusing. I don't think I've even owned a St. George's Cross. I have a Union Flag, but it's never displayed externally, it's rolled up still and in a box frame in the home office.
I get humans love totems or symbols of their tribe but this seems a bit excessive.
Does waving flags about like a disordered company of Guardsmen help people feel like they're doing something?
It really does show how thick some people are, and I include council leaders in that statement.
Blackflag is absolutely spot-on !
I am suspicious though about their motives in encouraging people to fly flags. I think their name is a bit of a giveaway.
When we get asked for St George’s day cards in the shop I explain that we prefer to celebrate St Alban, a proper English saint.
St George was a great guy, hence why he became a saint. His mother was Palestinian and he was raised in Palestine so I am sure that he would be happy to know how popular the Palestinian flag has become in the UK, and across the world.
If you are a big fan of St George I think it would be very appropriate to also fly the Palestinian flag.
I believe Blackflag were a popular beat combo from the 1980s
Does waving flags about like a disordered company of Guardsmen help people feel like they're doing something?
Apparently so. I believe the term for it is virtue signalling.
I do find it odd when people talk about being patriotic and tradition and so forth and then they go and nick the US habit of flying flags at the slightest opportunity. The UK and especially English tradition was, effectively, we didnt need to wave flags around to show who we are.
Afaik, people east of Eastern Europe find it highly amusing that the English claim St. George as their own!
My Genovese friends are always tickled by the sight of 'their' flag if they see one on display when they visit England.
Afaik, people east of Eastern Europe find it highly amusing that the English claim St. George as their own!
My Genovese friends are always tickled by the sight of 'their' flag if they see one on display when they visit England.
The St George's flag really does sound like a great unifying symbol right across so many nations.
I reckon St George deserved his sainthood.
What i'm really hoping for is the Muslim Council of Great Britain etc to also adopt this idea. Get all the mosques and surrounding areas to fly the St George flag. Get the asylum seekers in their 5* luxury tax payer funded hotels to hang them out of the windows. After all we are all living in England aren't we?
The symbol and meaning behind it would become redundant instantly.
This would actually be a very positive thing to reclaim our flag from a fringe group by displaying more widely. Not sure why you’ve single out mosques though.
It’s a very depressing thought that we should be ashamed of our national flag through the misappropriation by a narrow section of extremists that in almost every other country is a symbol of unity not division.
What's the next step, painting all the kerb stones red, white and blue?
Not just confined to the English - was common to see in Northern Ireland and certain places in Scotland like Larkhall and Ayrshire ex-mining communities. Was a sure fire sign you’d entered bampot territory, particularly around the 17th July with a preponderance to wear orange sashes and bowler hats whilst lighting bonfires.
As an aside are there more mobility scooters in high flag areas?
My mum is in a care home in Eastbourne and overlooks a main road. As we sat chatting the number of scooters was noticeable compared to when I look out my shop window in a fairly affluent area.
It's the postcode lottery of health. If you are poorer, you are more likely to have chronic and serious health conditions, you have poorer access to treatments etc. Add in less car ownership to get around, and of course you will see more mobility aids. It's not anecdotal, it's a fact of life in the UK.
I'm sure this is how they visualise themselves.
Whereas its more the peoples crusade element of the first crusade than the princes crusade.
Since history is unlikely to be a strong point for them they would likely nod and agree with that.
People who wave flags don't deserve them.
Christ, as if some offside calls weren't controversial enough...
What I find interesting is that the Welsh and Scottish flags don't have the same negative connotations for me. I'm not sure why that is the case, but it is.
Same, I guess it's because historically the Scottish and Welsh haven't been the ones doing oppression and subjugation on a global scale.
Although my reaction to seeing an England flag is much more negative than when I see the Union flag... 🤔
What I find interesting is that the Welsh and Scottish flags don't have the same negative connotations for me. I'm not sure why that is the case, but it is.
I think that feels driven by patriotism, whereas this is an agenda-driven hysterical xenophobia.
The flags being attached to lampposts is a "thing/movement" created by Legatum, The Dubai based owners of GB News, they are the "weird/dark" group behind it.
I read a very long twitter thread about the folk involved last night and their incredibly shady means of attempting to hid who funds it, I'll try and find it.
I'm sure this is how they visualise themselves.
French nobility heeding the pope's call to go slaughter foreigners in the name of god? 🙂
What I find interesting is that the Welsh and Scottish flags don't have the same negative connotations for me. I'm not sure why that is the case, but it is.
They never qualify for any international tournaments so are thus denied the opportunity to get pissed, smash up continental town squares and throw street furniture at the gendarmerie, while singing songs about world wars and world cups 😉
This would actually be a very positive thing to reclaim our flag from a fringe group by displaying more widely.
It's a few years ago now that the far right attempted to "adopt" English folk music as theirs. It gave rise to the "Folk against Fascism" movement. Get Billy Bragg on stage with a George cross singing about Ingerland and the fash will soon drop it.
It's not just the mouth breathers either. Estate behind us is filled with houses 500k and above but I noticed an expensive looking flag pole go up earlier this year in a garden a few doors from our house. Not only do they fly the flag of St George but they double team it with the Union Jack. These are the same people who had a party and were popping corks at midnight when we left Europe though so maybe not a surprise?
The other day I saw that a less impressive flag pole with St George's flag had gone up on the same estate at an equally expensive (for North Yorkshire) house.
Not sure why you’ve single out mosques though
Simply because they are highly symbolic of what i believe is really behind a lot of the flag waving hysteria - Islamophobia.
Whenever i get into a row with my relatives about small boats and hotels it very quickly descends from "we are full" to british values -> changing communities -> islam.
Simply because they are highly symbolic of what i believe is really behind a lot of the flag waving hysteria - Islamophobia.
Whenever i get into a row with my relatives about small boats and hotels it very quickly descends from "we are full" to british values -> changing communities -> islam.
Is the less hyperbolic POV without any merit whatsoever though?
This would actually be a very positive thing to reclaim our flag from a fringe group by displaying more widely.
It's a few years ago now that the far right attempted to "adopt" English folk music as theirs. It gave rise to the "Folk against Fascism" movement. Get Billy Bragg on stage with a George cross singing about Ingerland and the fash will soon drop it.
He's done a great Facebook post about how wonderful it is to see all the support for the Emgland Women's Rugby team ahead of the world cup, after they've been so overshadowed by the football. 🙂
It'll fizzle out over the autumn/winter. Stay off SM, or at least the bits of it where these mouthbreathers congregate and much of your anxiety will evaporate.
Right up until Farage is your new PM
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀😟
Same, I guess it's because historically the Scottish and Welsh haven't been the ones doing oppression and subjugation on a global scale.
Historically, though, that is nonsense. Plenty of Welsh and Scottish individuals were involved in the UK government and East India company etc. There has been some valiant efforts to blame the English for all the ills of the British Empire but its about as historically accurate as some of the flag wavers utterances.
Bit obvious, but still worth a share....
Simple lyrics hit the hardest... "Great Britain. Are you sure?"
Historically, though, that is nonsense. Plenty of Welsh and Scottish individuals were involved in the UK government and East India company etc.
Yeah, there’s plenty of Scot’s who fully deserve their own particular chapter in the history of utter bastards, slave traders, merchants, colonists and the average garden variety of bastards who would have risen to the levels of “utter bastard” given the chance.
Historically, though, that is nonsense. Plenty of Welsh and Scottish individuals were involved in the UK government and East India company etc.
Yeah, there’s plenty of Scot’s who fully deserve their own particular chapter in the history of utter bastards, slave traders, merchants, colonists and the average garden variety of bastards who would have risen to the levels of “utter bastard” given the chance.
Generally, all driven by their own greed.
They are found in all walks of life unfortunately. And it will never change.
I thought rural France wasn’t exactly free of le racisme/voting FN though?
Agreed but does depend on location & are at least more thinly spread.
This is EXACTLY what I was going to type. National pride in England feels much more defensive and nasty than it does in Wales or Scotland.
Historically, though, that is nonsense. Plenty of Welsh and Scottish individuals were involved in the UK government and East India company etc.
Sure, but national flags don't represent individuals. There will obviously be specific examples you can point to, but England (the country) ruled over both Scotland and Wales, and the rest of the commonwealth, which puts them at the top of the pyramid of bastards, IMHO.
This is EXACTLY what I was going to type. National pride in England feels much more defensive and nasty than it does in Wales or Scotland.
My anecdotal observations is that it's growing in Scotland. As per the person just yesterday describing those crossing the channel as "animals". I also routinely hear of, and see migrants as a group associated with criminality as thieves/sex offenders. That compares to how Scots who commit (and found guilty of) those crimes, who are talked about as individuals.
Reform tripling their vote share isn't helping either.
This is EXACTLY what I was going to type. National pride in England feels much more defensive and nasty than it does in Wales or Scotland.
I think its partly due to the Welsh & Scots feeling able to claim victimhood owing to a slightly selective interpretation of the last 250 years of British history.
Edinburgh & Glasgow didn't become hugely wealthy thanks to a few isolated individuals & that wealth was shared pretty widely(Or at least down to the middle classes.)
I do think it's interesting though, that by & large most countries seem to be able to embrace patriotism in a way which doesn't divide the country in the way it does here.
I do think it's interesting though, that by & large most countries seem to be able to embrace patriotism in a way which doesn't divide the country in the way it does here.
Do other countries have the same tendancy to self-flagellate to the degree we do?
Anyone shows even the remotest bit of healthy pride and it won't be long before someone brings up the ills of the Empire.
Nothing quite like being told you're wrong to have pride in your country because some rich smuggos decided to act like ****s before you even existed.
Maybe those that do this have a lot more in common with the racists than they realise, projecting their own feelings of inadequacy and helplessness onto others.
I don't think anyone's suggesting we shouldn't have pride in our country, but what's happening with this flag business has sinister undertones, I think.
England (the country) ruled over both Scotland and Wales, and the rest of the commonwealth, which puts them at the top of the pyramid of bastards, IMHO.
ISTR that Scots were disproportionately prevalent amongst senior British colonial and empire officials and military officers, especially in the East India company?
As indeed they always have been in Westminster politics on both sides of the house.
I don't think anyone's suggesting we shouldn't have pride in our country, but what's happening with this flag business has sinister undertones, I think.
Nah, there's no undertones about it, it is a very overt counter to Palestinian flags being attached to lamp posts and a council who in their ineptitude acted in a way that 'picked a side' and removed the English ones put up to counter.
No doubt in my mind a clear nationalist statement dripping in racism.
This is why elected leaders need to be smarter than they clearly are, handing idiots absolute gems to capitalise on.
One of the best pieces of advice I was ever given as a young NCO was 'be clear, be transparent and play a straight bat',
I think its partly due to the Welsh & Scots feeling able to claim victimhood owing to a slightly selective interpretation of the last 250 years of British history.
I would suggest more than "slightly selective".
I do think it's interesting though, that by & large most countries seem to be able to embrace patriotism
I think here you get into the problem of what "patriotism" is. It has not really been part of English culture to consider waving a flag around as being patriotic but something which has been imported.
I don't think anyone's suggesting we shouldn't have pride in our country, but what's happening with this flag business has sinister undertones, I think.
I think that's the point RM was getting at - you can be proud of tbe good things your country has done while being aware of the evil as well, but the flag of St George's has been hijacked, and trying to use it in a more positive way gets you labelled a flag shagging forelock tugger by some on here. I've been on the end of it. Right wing bigots or left wing bigots are all still just bigots.
ISTR that Scots were disproportionately prevalent amongst senior British colonial and empire officials and military officers, especially in the East India company
As recorded in the renowned documentary ‘Carry on up the Khyber’
I think here you get into the problem of what "patriotism" is. It has not really been part of English culture to consider waving a flag around as being patriotic but something which has been imported.
Big military flag waving jingoism has been with us since at least the start of empire, if it was imported it probably came with the Romans
I think here you get into the problem of what "patriotism" is. It has not really been part of English culture to consider waving a flag around as being patriotic but something which has been imported.
Big military flag waving jingoism has been with us since at least the start of empire, if it was imported it probably came with the Romans
Flags/Colours/Standards actually had a military purpose, now they're ceremonial. The Romans were quite savvy in distracting the people so you're probably onto something with jingoism bit there.