[Closed] This Obesity Thing

Bit confusing when some things have a higher GI but lower GL. Eg couscous has a higher GI than Quinoa, but a lower GL. You reckon we should believe the GL figure? I always thought couscous was basically made from white flour, like pasta, do it would seem odd if it was better for you than quinoa.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods.htm

I haven't read all of this yet, but it looks to be a fairly comprehensive explanation of the whole calories issue:

[url= http://thecaloriemythbook.com/ ]http://thecaloriemythbook.com/[/url]

http://thecaloriemythbook.com/

Snake oil.

@ grum

I might have been a bit mixed up there, GI is on the '100g of carbs' scale, but the GL is a better representation of what you eat as to get 100g of carbs from potatos you'd have to eat half a kilo of them, wheras to eat 100g of carbs from bread you need 200g...

I think we should believe both indexes 🙂 Another index worth looking into is the insulin index, which measures the insulin production in response to different foods.

Interestingly, on that index, it is things like fatty pastries that come out worst (i.e. high fat high processed sugar in general). They seem to cause a disproportionate response from the body, compared to what you might predict based on their fat or carb content.

Or to put it another way, there are things far worse than potatoes!

Ok, ta.

Interestingly, on that index, it is things like fatty pastries that come out worst (i.e. high fat high processed sugar in general). They seem to cause a disproportionate response from the body, compared to what you might predict based on their fat or carb content.

Mmmm just tucking into a croissant as we speak. 🙂

http://thecaloriemythbook.com/
Snake oil.

Certainly sets off all my BS alarm bells.

Bit confusing when some things have a higher GI but lower GL.

Wine gums = very high GI.
One wine gum = low GL.

Interestingly, on that index, it is things like fatty pastries that come out worst (i.e. high fat high processed sugar in general)

Yeah, fat and sugar interact with each other. Apparently high fat diet is perfectly healthy unless you have refined carbs with it which makes it really bad. This is where the fat = bad thing comes from, because we were all eating lots of refined carbs all along.

Wine gums = very high GI.
One wine gum = low GL.

Yeah that makes sense - I was being lazy and not really reading what GL means. 🙂

Doing the iDiet/4HB for 6 months or so seems to have changed the mass at which my body naturally wants to sit.

I'm naturally skinny and have always been able to eat anything and stay at pretty much dead on 75kg. Doing iDiet for 6month dropped me to about 66kg and, after going back to normal eating for a while, just under 70kg seems to be my new norm.

I guess I'm probably eating fewer high-GL carbs without really thinking about it, rather than having a permanently changed metabolism?

I think carefully about what we do and what we eat, as a family.

In terms of what we do, the biggest thing I think that keeps us healthy (as a young family; 2 kids <5) is being able to walk or cycle a lot. Almost all of our peers moved to the suburbs or countryside in recent years, whereas we've stuck in a area where walking and cycling are essential to daily life. In the 'burbs, I'd spend an hour or two a day commuting by car.

In terms of what we eat, it helps a lot that we make all our food. Pre-packed pizzas are our ready meals, but they're a once-a-month occurence at most. The rest of the time, we make veg or meat stews / curries in large quantities - to last a few days and give quick food / re-heat options.

I have lots of friends who are putting on weight. It's a lifestyle thing; not having the fundamentals in life (i.e. things you do / don't do every day) set up right to sustain good health or at least a healthy weight.

In terms of what we do, the biggest thing I think that keeps us healthy (as a young family; 2 kids <5) is being able to walk or cycle a lot.

I saw a report yesterday saying that there was a correlation between obesity rates and walkable neighbourhoods.

Fat people are fat because they eat to much. Anorexic are thin because they eat to little. The fat people come up with the normal lies: I have a low metabolic rate etc. Thin say they eat lots but just don't put on weight. Every experiment where they actual make sure they know exactly what the person is eating and the amount of exercise they do always shows they are lying. These are the worse type of lies, they are lying to themselves.

A neighbour of mine says he can eat whatever he wants and not put on weight. I checked he works away weekends. "I go straight from work to bed" It turns out all he has a day for 3 days is a sandwich or a bag of crisps "some days have both". My next question was: "you must have a massive scoff when you get back?" answer "no I am to tired I go straight to bed". His wife said "he can eat anything" and "the next minute he is dead fussy with his food difficult to find something he will eat". Seen him without a shirt he would have no problems getting work as an extra in concentration camp film. Mate recently died (obese) said he hardly eat anything. Found big tins of Quality Street and other chocolate hidden round the house.

What logical reason would result in a massive increase in obesity in 2 generation? Other than eating more calories than you need to maintain a healthy body weight? Anyone who Denies that the calories in calories out argument is in part the cause of the early death of 100,000s of people in Britain alone.

By the way obesity is measured by body fat not weight. Lots of children have been found to be Obese despite having a near normal body weight. The fat content of there body is to high relative to muscle content. If you went by weight alone all top body builders would be obese.

@sugarnaut, if you're still about....

It's no problem. I read a couple of pages of the thread and thought I would highlight the fact that for some people it's more complicated than it should be. It's strange, I tend to feel like a prisoner trapped in my own life, and I'm not sure how I got here. It seems impossible to make a permanent change for the better.

I have tried/am trying to get help on the NHS, whether they can actually provide proper help remains to be seen. Unfortunately I cannot afford "private" help, although I imagine that would be ideal.

I spiralled into eating disorder behaviour after I started to diet, calorie count and experiment with so-called "healthy" diets like Paleo, IFing, etc. I found I started to binge, and then panic afterwards and restrict, which would then make me ravenously hungry so I'd binge, etc, etc.

The thing that helped me was the Intuitive Eating book which I got on kindle, it's cheaper than a book, and they also have a website, which has a very kind and supportive online community. It really did encourage me to make peace with food, stop seeing food as being tied in with some kind of morality, and thinness as something that would make me a better person. I understood from reading the book (I eventually read it three times over, to understand the messages fully) that dieting does not and never will work, that the diet industry makes a profit from people's dieting attempts failing, and that being fat is a character defect or a moral failing is just baloney.

It's a tough process and it really does require mental toughness to be able to drown out diet talk, diet adverts, food advertising and all the conflicting messages we get about food and eating. But it is possible to heal your relationship with food if you want to. I felt a slave to food and dieting, even though I was preaching how great the Paleo diet was etc, and people were commenting how skinny I was, underneath I was mentally unhealthy, and I might have been a size 10, but I was bingeing in secret, anxious over eating, and thinking about food, or what I would and wouldn't eat, obsessively.

The 500 calories a day twice a week diet knocked off a quick stone and half of me. Which I put on after a long stay in hospital and very long convalescence. I am sticking with it forever as it has some very good health benefits.

Note I found no negative effects including exerciseing on "starvation days" and no problem sticking to it. Which must be psychological ie tomorrow I can eat what I want. No feelings hunger even. Opps I tend to wake up more during the night. It is slightly harder to get back to sleep. Normally I sleep like i am comatose.

Doing the iDiet/4HB for 6 months or so seems to have changed the mass at which my body naturally wants to sit.

I'm naturally skinny and have always been able to eat anything and stay at pretty much dead on 75kg. Doing iDiet for 6month dropped me to about 66kg and, after going back to normal eating for a while, just under 70kg seems to be my new norm.

identical to my experience. I dropped from 75kg to 68kg in 6 months 3 years ago. I'm now back to eating crap again whilst retaining the breakfast bit of the idave.

I so far haven't budged past 68 despite consuming loads of rubbish

Anyone who Denies that the calories in calories out argument is in part the cause

We're not denying it, we're saying it's an oversimplification that can be unhelpful.

The 500 calories a day twice a week diet knocked off a quick stone and half of me. Which I put on after a long stay in hospital and very long convalescence. I am sticking with it forever as it has some very good health benefits.

The 500 calories a day twice a week diet knocked off a quick stone and half of me. Which I put on after a long stay in hospital and very long convalescence

molgrips - Member
molgrips - Member
Anyone who Denies that the calories in calories out argument is in part the cause
We're not denying it, we're saying it's an oversimplification that can be unhelpful

.Have you literally just been released and that's why you've not read the preceding 17 pages?

.There was an article on the bbc suggesting that 5 days in 60 gives the same health benefits (more total calories though)

Here we go again.

Fat people are fat because they eat to much.

Crime is caused by criminals breaking the law.

Alcoholism is caused by drinking too much.

Shall we compile a list of some more of these incredibly useful nuggets of genius?

The only one I saw was the BBC programme where they were using the twice a week diet. I watched it twice.

I have been a right greedy barstard today.
porridge
tuna salad butty
fish n pea's

and I am off for a few pints on the way home............I am ****ed 😆

Thin say they eat lots but just don't put on weight.

I say this and it's true.

SD-253 -

Have you literally just been released and that's why you've not read the preceding 17 pages?

Yes

Well if you have a look back, maybe you could catch up and save everyone having to go through the same thing again.

To be fair, he might as well wait, as chances are everything will get repeated by the the teams soon enough.

.ondo - Member
SD-253 -
Have you literally just been released and that's why you've not read the preceding 17 pages?
Yes

Well if you have a look back, maybe you could catch up and save everyone having to go through the same thing again

In what way is it an oversimplification?

there's 17 pages on this thread so far... do you think the answer might lie within?

How much energy you 'use up' depends on a huge number of things. There are several energy stores in your body, and loads of hormones that regulate weight and appetite. What your body uses for fuel depends on some of the hormones and what you are actually doing. And HOW you are doing it. And what you did the few days before hand.

If you don't eat enough, your body won't want to exercise as hard, and it won't recover as well. So by eating less, you might actually be ruining your chances of losing weight. But you might not. When you do your cycling, are you over or under your lactate threshold? Do you know where your threshold is? How much fat are you 'burning'? How are your muscle glycogen stores? In the following two days, how much energy is your body going to use repairing itself? Is it going to burn fat to do this? When you eat a cake, how much energy is actually going into your muscle tissues? How much fat is being stored? What effect will that cake have on how your body uses energy on your ride later that day? Does the cake actually increase your rate of recovery? If you recover better, will you be able to ride harder the next day, thereby using up more energy? How much carbs, protein and fat should you eat to allow your body to recover but not store any fat? If you are under-fuelled, are you actually riding less hard? Even if your average speeds are the same, are you using the same energy source all the time? If you sprint up hills and ride slower on flats, are you using up the same amount of energy as if you spin at a more constant effort? Is the overall training stress on your body the same, or more, for the same average speed? Will 5 minutes spent sprinting overall use more energy than an hour spent spinning? And what kind of energy, including two days recovery?

When doing a long regular commute, I reached a weight loss plateau. I started eating Twixes and I lost another 2kg in two weeks. Someone else on a recent thread also reported that they ate more and lost weight.

Basically, you don't really know how much energy you use up when riding, and you don't know what your body is doing with the food you are putting in your mouth.

Well if you have a look back, maybe you could catch up and save everyone having to go through the same thing again.

Why spoil all the fun?

Why spoil all the fun?

Fun? 😥

come on Jamie....it is hilarious. the only people who seem to be bothered about us fatties being fat, are the healthy skinny fit ones.... 😆

To be fair, he might as well wait, as chances are everything will get repeated by the the teams soon enough.

In what way is it an oversimplification?

I must admit this thread has been better than usual. I think it's time for a closing summary, don't you?

1. The mechanisms by which our bodies store excess fat are complicated.

2. If you are lazy and stuff your face, you have a good chance of being fat. If this is you, then ELMM is a good start.

3. If you are in denial about what you eat, this is not good. Some fat people are weak willed and stuff their faces; some do not. Some are in denial, some are not.

4. There are other ways to lose weight effectively and healthily that might suit you better than ELMM; ELMM may not work for you at all for a variety of reasons.

5. If you are exercising hard then it gets more complicated

6. It's much harder for some people to lose weight than others.

7. If you have failed to lose weight, it is not necessarily because you are a failure.

8. Being nasty to or about fat people is not nice.

1. The mechanisms by which our bodies store excess fat are complicated.

2. If you are lazy and stuff your face, you have a good chance of being fat. If this is you, then ELMM is a good start.

3. If you are in denial about what you eat, this is not good. Some fat people are weak willed and stuff their faces; some do not. Some are in denial, some are not.

4. There are other ways to lose weight effectively and healthily that might suit you better than ELMM; ELMM may not work for you at all for a variety of reasons.

5. If you are exercising hard then it gets more complicated

6. It's much harder for some people to lose weight than others.

7. If you have failed to lose weight, it is not necessarily because you are a failure.

8. Being nasty to or about fat people is not nice.

TL:DR

Eat less, move more.

8. Being nasty to or about fat people is not nice.

depends if they can ride your arse off or not molly....... 😀

Meh.

I can't see how over complication is any better than over simplification, particularly in the context of public health.

I'd be interested to know how much of the complicated stuff is actually put into practise, and whether or not it is working.

I'm sticking to simple; just done 65 miles on a cup of coffee for breakfast and a bottle of water. I am absolutely wasted and had to crawl upstairs when I got in, but it works for me.

Sorry suggested I was finished but I'm back.
As stated by crikey - Member over complication is just as bad and what can you do with this vast array of knowledge, it is unusable.
Just as matter of interest how can I manage to eat nothing till 8pm and exercise (albeit not excessively) and not feel any ill effects? This is not a rhetorical question.

I can't see how over complication is any better than over simplification, particularly in the context of public health.

How about the right level of complication/simplification?

what can you do with this vast array of knowledge, it is unusable.

What a stupid thing to say. 😕

what can you do with this vast array of knowledge

Create a simple script with options for people to follow. ELMM, 5:2, Low GI etc - and make it NHS sponsored so there's no marketing bollocks involved.

Then most people would be doing one of say 5 eating plans, and shared experiences would help matters along.

how can I manage to eat nothing till 8pm and exercise (albeit not excessively) and not feel any ill effects?

You've used some of your muscle glycogen stores, but a lot of fat. You're good at using fat and because you didn't ride too hard you just burned fat, which is easy for your body to do (provided you have enough oxygen available) and doens't make you very tired. Since you have lots of fat stores (even skinny people do) you've got no ill effects.

If you'd pushed yourself hard you'd probably feel worse because of lower muscle glygocen stores, I'd guess.

How about the right level of complication/simplification?

That would be great, but given that the basic ELMM thing isn't being done to any great effect, how on earth can you complicate it and expect better?

Think of explaining this to the cast of TOWIE, think about the lowest common denominator, then think that even molgrips can't use the information he has to any great effect.

Molgrips' case is made harder by trying to pack in intense exercise.

the basic ELMM thing isn't being done to any great effect

Why not?

IMO, ELMM is basically just a tag line for the slightly less catchy ‘create a calorie deficit by adjusting diet and exercise’ which is why advocates of ELMM (me included) keep pointing out that it really is that simple, and why all of the internal mechanisms that Molgrips mentioned don’t actually make any difference to that fact (in so much as they are a hidden part of the energy balance equation, but as long as the ‘answer’ is negative their actual value is unimportant).

What they do impact on is why you can’t say for 2 people exercising the same and eating the exactly same diet the outcome will be the same; or that if a person sticks to a specific diet and exercise regime it will mean that they will continue to lose weight at the same rate i.e. we're all special little snowflakes.

SD-253 - Member

Just as matter of interest how can I manage to eat nothing till 8pm and exercise (albeit not excessively) and not feel any ill effects? This is not a rhetorical question

You're not human, you're a robot?

Your body has used your brain as an energy source?

Molgrips' case is made harder by trying to pack in intense exercise.

I agree that that is a stumbling block, but will also be the same for many people. I also accept that I have the time to go out and ride or walk lots; my only task today is to make a cheese and onion pie...

But that poses the question:

How do we change what people eat and how much exercise they do?

My feeling is a simple approach will be better accepted.

I also feel that exercise has to be given as much promotion as eating.

Edit:
the basic ELMM thing isn't being done to any great effect

Why not?

Cos people don't exercise and we are seeing increasing rates of obesity.

My feeling is a simple approach will be better accepted.

It's not really working at the moment is it.

I also feel that exercise has to be given as much promotion as eating.

I think all the evidence suggests eating is much more important. Building lots of low-intensity exercise into everyday life seems to be the most beneficial thing you can do.

That would be great, but given that the basic ELMM thing isn't being done to any great effect, how on earth can you complicate it and expect better?

Another way of looking at it is - we're promoting the wrong message, let's try one that works instead.

Another way of looking at it is - we're promoting the wrong message, let's try one that works instead.

I'd agree with that, what would you suggest?

What they do impact on is why you can’t say for 2 people exercising the same and eating the exactly same diet the outcome will be the same; or that if a person sticks to a specific diet and exercise regime it will mean that they will continue to lose weight at the same rate i.e. we're all special little snowflakes.

Well yes, rates of weight loss will vary, but anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that some people's rate of weight loss will be very slow or even zero. And some people will find it just too difficult to do. The question is, WHY do they find it so difficult? This is a big question.

Why not?

Cos people don't exercise and we are seeing increasing rates of obesity.

I meant why are people not ELMMing - why do people not manage it? Even those that want to?

I'd suggest the very first thing to do is change from ELMM to EBMM. As in, eat BETTER move more. Better meaning no sugar or refined carbs. This is considered a bit of a health nut thing, but it's fundamental.

People give up on ELMM because they feel really hungry, and eating less doesn't help. But they could eat 'better' food and feel more full whilst still losing weight.

I also accept that I have the time to go out and ride or walk lots

I don't, and most of my 12 hour day at work today has been sat at a desk. If I'd driven in and was driving home, I'd have done no exercise at all today.

Thankfully, I'm able to ride to/from work, so I'll get half an hour of moderate exercise, but many won't or can't.

I'd agree with that, what would you suggest?

Think molly sums it up pretty well actually.

Have I won the internet?

Oh nooooo, it's all starting again!!!! 🙁

Have I won the internet?

[img] [/img]

Have I won the internet?

Only if:

a) You actually practice what you preach, and

b) It works.

I blame the car, personally.

Apologies if this point has already been made but wasnt there an article a couple of years ago in some medical journal that worked out that because obese people die younger they are actually saving the NHS money. Given burden on the NHS is the justification people use to hate the fatties, will we have to find another excuse?

I'd suggest the very first thing to do is change from ELMM to EBMM. As in, eat BETTER move more. Better meaning no sugar or refined carbs. This is considered a bit of a health nut thing, but it's fundamental.

People give up on ELMM because they feel really hungry, and eating less doesn't help. But they could eat 'better' food and feel more full whilst still losing weight.

I think you have won Molgrips. Agree 100%

I'd suggest the very first thing to do is change from ELMM to EBMM. As in, eat BETTER move more.

I thought this was already the case tbh.

Better meaning no sugar or refined carbs.

Smashing.

Now we just have to convince the entire food industry, who are famously receptive to attempts to alter even the packaging...

Not going to happen is it?

Have done a bit more reading and it seems to make a degree of sense to me. I was already aware of the foods that don't seem to fill me up - or do at the time but don't keep you feeling sated, and so make you want to snack, but wasn't aware that they have a mechanism leading to fat storage.

So will adopt what I've learnt into my 5:2 schedule. So fast days will be protein and veg anyway, as they usually are, but will not default to porridge as my standard breakfast and aim instead for ham and eggs. Normal days will also reduce / remove as much 'bad' carbs as I can while still being able to eat while travelling / at meeting lunches, etc. And one day a week where I still broadly stick to my reasonable cal allowance but will be free to eat what I want to get to it, and I won't cry if I exceed allowances!

Just watching supersize v superskinny. In America they are now fitting drains to patients stomachs so they can choose to drain off a third of what they have eaten wtf.

I thought this was already the case tbh.

I thought EBMM meant Enjoy Beer Move More 😥

.You're not human, you're a robot?

. grum - Member
I can't see how over complication is any better than over simplification, particularly in the context of public health.
How about the right level of complication/simplification?

what can you do with this vast array of knowledge, it is unusable.
What a stupid thing to say.

.Jamie - Member
I thought this was already the case tbh.
I thought EBMM meant Enjoy Beer Move More

stick to my reasonable cal allowance but will be free to eat what I want to get to it, and I won't cry if I exceed allowances!

In America they are now fitting drains to patients stomachs so they can choose to drain off a third of what they have eaten wtf.

Saw this one a while back.

Whilst decidedly bonkers in its own way, I'm not sure the end effect differs much from a stomach stapling operation - except a stomach staple also has the benefit of altering the amount of hormones the stomach produces.

you may as well just get them to puke

Its not really helping them change the way they eat where as stapling does force them to consume less - it worked for a friend of mine- and alter their diet which is presumably the goal.

If you're doing 100 cals in milk and sugar in your tea, that's a lot. I drink skimmed milk so no fat calories to speak of, 5% sugars which i now realise isn't great, 35cals / 100ml.

Had my scoff about an hour ago 130 grams of new pots, one tin of mushy peas and 110 grams of cooked in the oven defrosted chicken. Frozen chicken as it has water injected in it which makes it (in my opinion) more succulent. Also you can always keep your freezer well stocked.

I had stir fried vegetables (using minimal spray of oil), 100g haddock fillet oven cooked with a bit of paprika on top to spice it up a bit, and 150g of king prawns in with the stir fry. Didn't really need the haddock either but want to keep my protein up. Total about 350cals.

People give up on ELMM because they feel really hungry, and eating less doesn't help. But they could eat 'better' food and feel more full whilst still losing weight.

100% agree.

Eating less of the same processed crap foods won't help you lose weight because you'll be hungry, give up, binge, gain weight, then feel guilty, beat yourself up for having no "willpower" and the whole cycle starts again.

Hence how we start associating food and eating with morality - this thread shows very clearly that people make moral judgements about overweight people, i.e. they must be greedy, lazy, stupid, have no self control, etc.

The diet industry conditions us to think that it is a matter of choice, moral willpower, the ability to ignore hunger and refuse food is virtuous and eating, or heaven forbid, [i]enjoying food[/i], is sinful. No wonder we have eating disorders at both ends of the spectrum.

If you enjoy food, then you give a shit how it's been produced, reared, and got to your table. You start questioning mass production, factory farming, supermarkets, the whole system, and that's the very thing they don't want us to do. Why were our grandparents, by and large, not overweight when they ate butter, cheese, lard, and bacon and all the things the diet industry tells us we shouldn't eat, and instead we should choose chemical laden crap which is full of artificial stuff that HUMANS ARE NOT DESIGNED TO EAT.

If you don't enjoy food, i.e. you have been conditioned by the mass media, food manufacturing and diet industries to think that enjoying eating is bad, will make you overweight and socially unacceptable, then of course, you will buy this shit in order to feel better about yourself.

As a woman who does not enter into diet talk, doesn't care about calories, and will have a dessert if she wants one, I am something of a social pariah among women in my workplace who are always dieting, breaking the diet, or about to start a new diet. Putting butter on my toast seems like a political act, in this setting. They continually wonder why I am not overweight or the same size they are. They say it's not fair and I must have a fast metabolism or something.

In summary, the diet fascists, calorie counting enthusiasts and thin fantasy peddlers are taking the piss out of us in order to make themselves rich.

You think far too much.

Why were our grandparents, by and large, not overweight when they ate butter, cheese, lard, and bacon and all the things the diet industry tells us we shouldn't eat, and instead we should choose chemical laden crap which is full of artificial stuff that HUMANS ARE NOT DESIGNED TO EAT.

So the migration from physical/manual jobs to more desk/sedentary work, as well as the increase in less physical pass times such as tv/computer viewing, has nothing to do with it?

In summary, [s]the diet fascists, calorie counting enthusiasts and thin fantasy peddlers are taking the piss out of us in order to make themselves rich[/s] it's everyone elses fault, and personal responsibility has no part to play.

...and as for the feeling hungry bit, yes, you will feel hungry. It's a feeling that we have all but forgotten, and one with which we should become reacquainted.

I would rather oversimplify tbh.

I am overweight because I eat too much and exercise too little. I have embarked on a 6 day a week exercise prog and food diary to control my eating. I am now losing weight. Watching what you eat and exercising aren't always the most enjoyable things which is why people don't do them. Attitudes towards our own health in this country are, on the whole, abysmal. People don't seem to be able to take any kind of responsibility for any decisions (not just eating/exercising).

So the migration from physical/manual jobs to more desk/sedentary work, as well as the increase in less physical pass times such as tv/computer viewing, has nothing to do with it?

I made an earlier post on this thread that mentioned that, I think yes, that does have a lot to do with it.

In summary, [s]the diet fascists, calorie counting enthusiasts and thin fantasy peddlers are taking the piss out of us in order to make themselves rich[/s] it's everyone elses fault, and personal responsibility has no part to play.

Nope, I don't believe that either. I think we do have personal responsibility to question what these idiots feed us, whether in the form of advertising for miracle diets, "thinspiration" and the fetishization of skinny in the media, or telling us butter is bad, here eat this cocktail of processed vegetable fat and it's better for you.

I think we have personal responsibility to look after our own health, and not just blindly believe the crap we are fed by an industry whose primary motive is profit, not our health and wellbeing.

...and as for the feeling hungry bit, yes, you will feel hungry. It's a feeling that we have all but forgotten, and one with which we should become reacquainted.

It's normal to feel a bit hungry. It's your body telling you it needs fuel. The problem is when people eat for emotional reasons, rather than hunger. We should indeed become reacquainted with the signals of true biological hunger. What we shouldn't do is turn the ability to ignore or deny hunger into a personal moral virtue, because that is also as mentally unhealthy as overeating or eating for other reasons than hunger.

Attitudes towards our own health in this country are, on the whole, abysmal.

It's not limited to this country!

People don't seem to be able to take any kind of responsibility for any decisions (not just eating/exercising).

As I said, there are a fair few people to whom this applies. However there are also lots of people who do make a significant effort and still fail.

Round in circles again.

I think we do have personal responsibility to [s]question what these idiots feed us, whether in the form of advertising for miracle diets, "thinspiration" and the fetishization of skinny in the media, or telling us butter is bad, here eat this cocktail of processed vegetable fat and it's better for you.

I think we have personal responsibility to look after our own health, and not just blindly believe the crap we are fed by an industry whose primary motive is profit, not our health and wellbeing[/s] think about what and above all how much we eat and how much exercise we do.

We don't need the politics behind it, we are all up to speed on that. We do need to get on with helping ourselves.

I have embarked on a 6 day a week exercise prog and food diary to control my eating. I am now losing weight.

That's great - I highly doubt that you'll be able to keep up doing a food diary/'exercise prog' long term though.

[i]Thankfully, I'm able to ride to/from work, so I'll get half an hour of moderate exercise, but many won't or can't. [/i]

Hey ! I can beat that. My current place of work has built a bus stop style shelter for the smokers, but has so far refused to construct a bike storage / lock up facility, for those of us who would prefer to cycle to work.

🙁