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[i]*waits for someone to tell me CFS is a made-up condition* [/i]
I always thought ME was medical shorthand for 'go away and stop bothering us'. You're doing well, grum.
I have a question, when ever I have seen those 'the only way I can lose weight is to have a gastric band fitted' type programmes the doc's say ok you need to lose x amount of kg to make the surgery less of a risk......the person who wants the surgery alway's manages to shed the weight through diet/exercise to get to the weight required. Does this not then dispel the I need surgery excuse?
I would rather be fat than have a personality like yours.
Think you may have missed the sarcasm there. 🙂
Think you may have missed the sarcasm there.
apparently so. Perhaps a 😉 may help people like me not miss it again 😉
I was talking about the majority of fat people. You're not in that majority grum. You're defending them from one of the minorities who are fat for reasons other than being lazy.
I was talking about the majority of fat people.
No, you're talking about your assumptions and prejudices.
MrSmith,
going back to your "freebie" work for those sufferers of pancreatic cancer you were masturbating about yesterday on your attention seeking orgy...
Did you individually interview each of them and ask what their lifestyle choices had been before they were struck down with an illness that garnered a bit of your precious sympathy? Did any of them over-consume red meat during their lives? Did any of them smoke, just a little bit when they were younger (it only takes a small amount to cause a DNA mutation that may lead to cancer later in life)? Did any of them "choose" to take up a career where they'd exposed themselves to carcinogens that may have led to them now suffering with cancer? If they'd answered yes to any of those questions, would you have told them to **** off, they were only getting what they deserved? I doubt you would to be honest...you don't seem the type to actually have the courage of your convictions to do something like that. It's easier to beat yourself off thinking of increasingly crass things to say on STW.
bernard - Member
I have a question, when ever I have seen those 'the only way I can lose weight is to have a gastric band fitted' type programmes the doc's say ok you need to lose x amount of kg to make the surgery less of a risk......the person who wants the surgery alway's manages to shed the weight through diet/exercise to get to the weight required. Does this not then dispel the I need surgery excuse?
by the time youve reached gastric band levels youre satiety, blood sugar etc hormones are so messed up that long term weight loss by any other means is virtually impossible
part of the problem is that dieting permanently alters certain hormone levels
some interesting reading here
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21474429
I dont assume an individual has got fat from being lazy miketually
I'm not assuming laziness on an individual basis I'm stating it as a general cause.
As I said in my first post I'm judged in a similar way without people knowing a thing about me but I have enough about me to see that the generalisation is true.
We have sedentary lifestyles our bodies were not made for (myself included - desk job, baaaahhh)we drive everywhere instead of walking, our kids don't play out because we perceive it not to be safe (and in some places it probably isn't) so they are scheduled to the hilt and driven to clubs and activities rather than making their own fun.
Our shopping centres are out of town, we have all but killed local shops in a lot of places, so we have to drive to the supermarkets, where we wander like zombies and are bombarded with adverts for unhealthy foods. The unhealthy foods are cheaper, at least in the supermarkets, so that's what people buy if they haven't got a lot of money.
People are stuck working long hours (unpaid overtime the norm in most places I've worked, bar one or two - presenteeism rules) and barely have the energy or inclination to cook a meal from scratch or go to the gym or be active.
I am currently contracting for a major UK retailer, where people get paid, and then they pour their money back to their employer via the canteen, on site shops, and via the discount scheme that allows them to go buy their mass produced rubbish for slightly less. The whole system is set to benefit them, not us! When are we going to wake up to it, those with the power and the money love obesity and our general habits of overconsumption - it makes them money, which is what they live for! They sell us convenience, that's what we need, because the majority of our time is spent wage slaving for them, so we don't have time to grow, prepare and cook things. They stole our time and independence from us and gave us the ready meal in return.
If we want to resist obesity, then we need to resist the pull of mass marketing, we need to resist cultural homogenisation, and mass consumer culture. Start resisting these things, start looking for and posing alternatives to lining the pockets of big businesses who get rich from our misery and poor health. And I can tell you from the trenches, that is exactly how they get rich. And our governments allow them to do this whilst simultaneously blaming the individual for their every misfortune, whether that might be having the temerity to be unemployed or sick and need benefits, or getting too fat and being a drain on the NHS. This is the government of the scapegoat and witch hunt. This is the government that encourages us to hate each other, compete with each other, but trust and rely on the ruthless profiteers of big private enterprise. Co-operation is the enemy of this society. We are out for ourselves, pushing our lonely trolleys round the aisles in the supermarkets, filling ourselves with sugar and fat instead of love, companionship and social cohesion, we would rather hoard our bread than break it with our neighbours. No wonder we are all fat, miserable and lonely.
DD do you really expect me to indulge you?
Leave your penis alone if you keep doing that it gives you cancer.
littlemisspanda, fat, happy and married if you don't mind love.... 😆
you don't seem the type to actually have the courage of your convictions to do something like that. It's easier to beat yourself off thinking of increasingly crass things to say on STW.
Leave your penis alone if you keep doing that it gives you cancer.
Apparently so.
I'm not normally in to metaphorical nosh offs, but DD deserves one for this bit of inspired put-downism. Well done nom nom.
MrSmith,going back to your "freebie" work for those sufferers of pancreatic cancer you were masturbating about yesterday on your attention seeking orgy...
Did you individually interview each of them and ask what their lifestyle choices had been before they were struck down with an illness that garnered a bit of your precious sympathy? Did any of them over-consume red meat during their lives? Did any of them smoke, just a little bit when they were younger (it only takes a small amount to cause a DNA mutation that may lead to cancer later in life)? Did any of them "choose" to take up a career where they'd exposed themselves to carcinogens that may have led to them now suffering with cancer? If they'd answered yes to any of those questions, would you have told them to **** off, they were only getting what they deserved? I doubt you would to be honest...you don't seem the type to actually have the courage of your convictions to do something like that. It's easier to beat yourself off thinking of increasingly crass things to say on STW.
DD do you really expect me to indulge you?
Yes, it was a bit much to hope for. Sorry if you've suddenly gone flaccid...it happens to a lot of guys...you're not alone.
There's a big difference between hereditary disease or just plain bad luck where there is very little in the way of reducing the odds of succumbing to an illness and eating too much crap food/being a couch potato.
But hey don't let that get in the way of winning on the Internet.
Yes, it was a bit much to hope for. Sorry if you've suddenly gone flaccid...it happens to a lot of guys...you're not alone.
You still have a boner for me though, it's obvious. 😳
You still have a boner for me though, it's obvious.
I did, until I found out in another of your revelations, that you're a lanky string of shite.
If we want to resist obesity, then we need to resist the pull of mass marketing, we need to resist cultural homogenisation, and mass consumer culture. Start resisting these things, start looking for and posing alternatives to lining the pockets of big businesses who get rich from our misery and poor health. And I can tell you from the trenches, that is exactly how they get rich. And our governments allow them to do this whilst simultaneously blaming the individual for their every misfortune, whether that might be having the temerity to be unemployed or sick and need benefits, or getting too fat and being a drain on the NHS. This is the government of the scapegoat and witch hunt. This is the government that encourages us to hate each other, compete with each other, but trust and rely on the ruthless profiteers of big private enterprise. Co-operation is the enemy of this society. We are out for ourselves, pushing our lonely trolleys round the aisles in the supermarkets, filling ourselves with sugar and fat instead of love, companionship and social cohesion, we would rather hoard our bread than break it with our neighbours. No wonder we are all fat, miserable and lonely
Quite nicely put I thought.
I did, until I found out in another of your revelations, that you're a lanky string of shite
As you interest has been piqued BMI just about gets into the normal healthy range and I do have a 29in waist.
Not really interested in your weight though.
+1 littlemisspanda
Surely time to close this thread though mods? 'Tis getting a bit personal on the attack front.
In afore the lock as others put it?
EDIT: sneaky filter usage there... 😀
littlemisspanda, fat, happy and married if you don't mind love....
Glad to hear it ton 😀
Interesting thread, I don't know what the answer is. The average lifestyle definitely doesn't help, combined with food that perhaps isn't particularly healthy either.
I'm forced to work 40 hours a week, why would I then want to spend time exercising afterwards?!?!
There's the mental illness side of it that has been alluded to by quite a few on here aswell, so it's not as simple as some of the nuggets are making it out to be.
Also, peoples perceptions of what is overweight. I got weighed at the doctors last week and as I was stepping on the scales she said something along the lines of "there's not much to you, we don't want you losing any weight". Turns out I'm 85kg which is at the upper end of "healthy" on the BMI scale, if I put on two or three kg's I'd probably be overweight.
Perhaps DD and MrS might get together...
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There's something vaguely familiar, whofting about this thread, ever since its begining......
😐
I wish TSY was here 🙁
...oh, and obligatory:
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Quite nicely put I thought.
+1.
BMI doesn't matter. it probably is a good measure for endurance sports, but only by chance. My BMI indicates that i'm on the verge of morbid obesity, but bodyfat measurement says i'm in above average health. I had a check up and the doc said I was in great health.
if your 85 kg and have some muscle, BMI will not take the muscle into account. get a fat caliper and measure fat percent. Getting under 5-7% is only possible if your trying for that, and it's hard to maintain. The doctor probably means that getting lower weight means you'll have to reduce muscle mass, or go into a unhealthy or unmaintainable bodyfat percentage. neither of which doctors would recommend.
Pro endurance athletes (primarly in biking and running) let the muscles in their arms wear away to reduce muscle mass, then on top of that get down to under 5% BF to competition (peaking). This is why wiggens, froom look like aliens with those horrible long spegetti arms.
So in summary:
Eating Unhealthily - Easy and cheap
Eating Healthy - "Hard" (it's not though is it) and expensive.
Exercising - Unpleasant (unless you like it)
Sitting on the couch - Pleasant
Reading labels - Easy
Interpreting Label information - Bit tricky ("I thought fat was bad?") but with a modicum of intelligence completely possible.
Giving a fat person a hug and saying "There there and have a pamphlet" - allowed.
Giving a fat person a severe talking to and making them aware that in no uncertain terms that they are killing themselves - frowned upon
Driving to work/school - the norm.
Riding/walking to work/school - frowned upon, you might get hit by a car!
Not massively surprising so many people are getting fat is it as the vast majority of people seem to be lazy and stupid.
Oh! One more thing, can we stop using body mass or BMI as measure of "fatness", they are both fundamentally flawed as they don't take into account body composition.
I blame processed food but then city lifestyle is a major problem in the developed world. i.e. stress due to work. I think I put on 15kg for the past few years.
As long as you have no health problem then fat is not an issue.
Eating Unhealthily - Easy and cheap
Eating Healthy - Hard(er) when you've done a full day's work, done the chores at home, sorted the kids/pets out, and are hungry and don't want to get to bed too late so you can get up at silly o'clock in the morning and not want to kill yourself or somebody else. And more expensive.
Exercising - See above. Often gets deprioritised when people have lives that are far too busy having to make enough money to make ends meet, and look after the kids, elderly/sick relatives, or whatever other responsibilities people have that they have to fit around work. (I do make the effort to cook from scratch mostly, but if I want to work a full day, go visit my dad, and do my share of the housework, quite often it's the exercise that gets sacrificed, over and above cycle commute to work anyway).
Sitting on the couch - sometimes all you can muster the energy to do after doing all of the above
Reading labels - Easy, if you have all the time in the world to shop and don't have impatient kids tugging at you, or a childminder to relieve, or any other time constraint - have you seen how small they print that stuff?
Interpreting Label information - see above
Giving a fat person a hug and saying "There there and have a pamphlet" - fairly useless.
Giving a fat person a severe talking to and making them aware that in no uncertain terms that they are killing themselves - also fairly useless
Driving to work/school - the norm.
Riding/walking to work/school - frowned upon, you might get hit by a car - how many times do we see stories just on STW about near-misses, accidents etc? Roads built for car drivers, not cyclists, and when people are in such a hurry everywhere, is it any wonder a red light or crossing means little to some people?
I blame processed food but then city lifestyle is a major problem in the developed world. i.e. stress due to work.
Can't think of anything more stressful than a famine. Surprising they're not all fat.
Can't think of anything more stressful than a famine. Surprising they're not all fat.
Hilarious. 😐
5thElefant - MemberCan't think of anything more stressful than a famine. Surprising they're not all fat.
I suppose if you have nothing to eat then you can be stressful too but in the developed world it is the opposite extreme. Too much eating due to stress vice versa. It also doesn't help when most food are so chemically processed ...
when ever i´m back in the UK it takes me afew days to stop pointing out all the fat people to my GF...
sure you get fat people here in Schermany, but there are noticeably fewer of them and they are not the norm.
i can only think of three people who are properly overweight amongst friends and colleagues. all of them are blokes. all of them drink lots (as is the norm in Bavaria) and one of them is English.
my mum is overweight. of her 7 sisters only two of them are not what you you call fat. one of them is seriously overweight, but i recon her fella is a feeder.
yes, the UK is fat.
[i]I wish TSY was here[/i]
😉
BMI developed for measuring whole populations not individuals regardless of their genetic hereditary Plus the goal posts were moved about twenty years ago downwards, putting a whole bunch of otherwise healthy people into the slightly overweight or overweight catagories
Can't be arsed to google it, but its out there .
alpin - Memberyes, the UK is fat.
I have to agree.
when ever i´m back in the UK it takes me afew days to stop pointing out all the fat people to my GF...sure you get fat people here in Schermany, but there are noticeably fewer of them and they are not the norm.
i can only think of three people who are properly overweight amongst friends and colleagues. all of them are blokes. all of them drink lots (as is the norm in Bavaria) and one of them is English.
my mum is overweight. of her 7 sisters only two of them are not what you you call fat. one of them is seriously overweight, but i recon her fella is a feeder.
yes, the UK is fat.
I thought exactly this while on my European travels over the last 2 summers. How come Western Europe has nowhere near the amount of fatties as the UK?
Oh! One more thing, can we stop using body mass or BMI as measure of "fatness"
No I think we should keep it as it is a straightforward indicator that shows whether or not you need to look into something further. Then you can get the fat calipers out if you like. Complicated messages don't work which is why people aim for things like traffic light labelling even though there are obvious problems with that as well.
I thought exactly this while on my European travels over the last 2 summers. How come Western Europe has nowhere near the amount of fatties as the UK?
Based upon my trips to France, Germany and Belgium, because it's almost impossible to find a bloody supermarket to buy stuff.
yes, the UK is fat.
why? ❓
Maybe the Europeans hug their fatties moar?
I thought exactly this while on my European travels over the last 2 summers. How come Western Europe has nowhere near the amount of fatties as the UK?
Spain's not far off, at least in Madrid: most of the guys here in my office have a paunch.
No I think we should keep it as it is a straightforward indicator that shows whether or not you need to look into something further. Then you can get the fat calipers out if you like. Complicated messages don't work which is why people aim for things like traffic light labelling even though there are obvious problems with that as well.
+1
I've heard people who don't eat particularly well and do no exercise saying "Well, the doctor said I was overweight but the BMI thing is unreliable isn't it, because it would say a professional rugby player was overweight even though they're fit".
It's a guide. It says "Given your height we would expect you to weigh Xkg, you're over/under this, why might that be?"
It could be that you're a professional rugby player, it could be that you've only got one leg, it could be that you've got a medical condition that means you gain weight, it could be that you're anorexic.
But for a lot of people it will simply be that because of their lifestyle they're outside a 'healthy' weight. Changing the lifestyle is the tricky bit, as is identifying what causes it & how much other 'players' influence it (food companies, govt etc).
For every person outside of their ideal weight, as a ratio to thickos with attention issues, is 1:15.
[i]Source: STW Forum (2014) 'http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/this-obesity-thing'. Pages 1-9.[/i]
Well if we're stereotyping....whenever i've been on holiday somewhere hot and seen a fat bloke in speedos they are invariably German!
why?
Because our nanny-state culture has led to a lack of individual responsibility of course.
We should look to countries that place a great emphasis on individualism as an example, like the US.
Are people in the UK intrinsically lazier or greedier than those in Europe, or in the UK before obesity was a major issue? I'd say not. So, something must have happened at a societal level.
Asking people, as individuals, to make major changes without addressing the root causes is not always going to be successful. We need to make large, national-level, structural changes if we're going to made a difference to a large, national problem.
Taking responsibility for yourself and eating more veg and fewer pies and moving about a bit more is fine, at an individual level. But, that advice isn't going to work for 40 million people.
Smoking suppresses appetite doesn't it? Is the decline in smoking related to the increase in eating?
I certainly put weight on when I gave up, but there were broader issues at work (no pun intended).
why?
Because our nanny-state culture has led to a lack of individual responsibility of course.We should look to countries that place a great emphasis on individualism as an example, like the US.
Ah that bastion of personal responsibility, where there is blame there is a claim.
Obesity levels in France have doubled between 1995 and 2004 (to 11.3% of the population)
whatever is happening here, is happening there, too
I think it's shocking that we can't call a fat person fat. It's a fact, same way you can call a smoker a smoker and a cancer sufferer a cancer sufferer.
I also think it's shocking that some obese people sit and swear blind it's not their fault. Granted, they may not have been educated properly and not been made aware of how they should eat and live, but when you get to that stage you DO something about it. They put an enormous strain on the NHS to help relieve the symptoms of something they have basically done themselves.
Of course there are emotional issues and it's not black and white, anyone who feels the need to point out any such facts can save their energy. I just feel there should be much greater accountability on the people in question and a hard line of communication from medical professionals, family and friends rather than tiptoeing around the problems avoiding using direct language.
anyone who feels the need to point out any such facts can save their energy.
Yeah I hate it when people come out with inconvenient facts rather than just relying on lazy prejudices. I mean, you can prove anything with facts.
Dunno if my observations as a "portly" fellow are any help, but... I might be looking at it pretty simply, and I know that there ARE people out there who have outside influences that make the whole thing a lot more complex, but I kind of put it alongside the smoking thing. I knew smoking was really, really bad for me, but I did it for several years. Tried giving up with varying degrees of success for a number of years before finally getting it nailed - what it came down to, I think, was I really needed to WANT to give up in order to make it stick.
Weightwise, I've been slowly ballooning over the last six or eight years, to within sniffing distance of the dread twenty stone. Over the ten months or so up to my wedding in August of last year, I managed to shake almost four of them - since then, I've put two back on. What does it come down to? Well, the information's all out there, for those that have an interest - it's a matter of wanting to put it into action. Easier said than done, as I know well...
omfg........please stop arguing ffs.
you are like children, do you want me to slap the back of your legs and mate them smart?
Do you often miss the point grum?
How many calories for 10 minutes of smacking?
Do you often miss the point grum?
Was the point that you made up the idea that we can't call fat people fat?
I think it's shocking that we can't call a fat person fat.
I think this thread is pretty good evidence of what a load of bollocks that is.
I think it's shocking that we can't call a fat person fat
But you just did and nobody is knocking on your door to arrest you for it.
Of course there are emotional issues and it's not black and white, anyone who feels the need to point out any such facts can save their energy. I just feel there should be much greater accountability on the people in question and a hard line of communication from medical professionals, family and friends rather than tiptoeing around the problems avoiding using direct language.
As you point out, there are many reasons behind the increasing waistline of the country. Simply pointing at 40 million fat people and saying "Oi, fatty, sort yourself out!" isn't going to work. A more holistic* approach where we tackle societal issues as well as focusing on personal responsibility is needed.
*I apologise for using that word.
do you want me to slap the back of your legs and mate them smart
Chase me! Then we'll both see the benefit! 😉
you are like children, do you want me to slap the back of your legs and mate them smart?
Just don't smack their guts...
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Jamie...where did you get my photo?
I just googled for images of black doctors.
Do that 2 day a week 600 calorie a day. Works great very easy probably psychology as I never have problem. Sack it when stopping with mother(not worth the ear ache) and anytime I am seeing daughters. So not overly rigid. Highly rated from a health point of view. Put on about a stone and half during 6 weeks in hospital and 2 months of the home help force feeding me full Monty breakfast! Have septic arthritis so difficult to get started on the bike again but managed in the end. Rugby is no chance. And now I am out of the habit of 60 mile pub crawls on my bike. Worse still I changed pubs to one that is only 6 miles away instead of the normal 12. Am nearly at my normal weight but have been for 6 months. Need to do that bit more exercise or look a bit more at my calorie intake. Have you noticed how they slag this diet down? Always on about the anorexia when the problem of obesity is many times worse. For the NHS (also known as the taxpayer) the cost are many times higher. Always the minority comes first.
A more holistic* approach where we tackle societal issues as well as focusing on personal responsibility is needed.
*I apologise for using that word.
So, to progress things, what do those in the "it's complex" or "it's social-level thing" suggest is done? Beyond appealing to personal initiative, what about subsidies, price incentives, removing tax on veg', and stronger regulation and legislation on the food industry? Clearly much of his would have to be paid for out of the public pocket. Is there appetite for this? 😉
So, to progress things, what do those in the "it's complex" or "it's social-level thing" suggest is done?
Fiddle about with VAT/taxes on 'healthy'/'unhealthy' food/drink;
Sugar Tax;
Prioritise active travel, including good-quality bike infrastructure;
Parking Space Tax for businesses;
Gritting of pavements and bike paths in winter;
Free (good) school meals, with a ban on packed lunches;
Discount cars/vouchers for vegetable purchases for low income families;
Better education in school;
Better labelling and food regulations;
1-to-1 support for people losing weight;
Car-exclusion zones around schools;
Road pricing to discourage car commuting;
Subsidised public transport;
Raise driving age to 21;
When the Zombie apocalypse happens you'll all be glad of the fatties as a food source
I bet they are even Paleo approved 8)
As a food source for the zombies you mean, whilst the skinny folk run for the hills?
Miketually has it.
Fiddle about with VAT/taxes on 'healthy'/'unhealthy' food/drink;
Sugar Tax;
Prioritise active travel, including good-quality bike infrastructure;
Parking Space Tax for businesses;
Gritting of pavements and bike paths in winter;
Free (good) school meals, with a ban on packed lunches;
Discount cars/vouchers for vegetable purchases for low income families;
Better education in school;
Better labelling and food regulations;
1-to-1 support for people losing weight;
Car-exclusion zones around schools;
Road pricing to discourage car commuting;
Subsidised public transport;
Raise driving age to 21;
pie-eaters wouldn't care, they would just eat more pie
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It's somewhat shocking and saddening for me to see how little empathy there is for a significant proportion of the population.
I do feel sorry for those who have genuine medical reasons behind their weight, it's just those who don't even try and still moan about it that I have no time for. Again it's the laziness and excuse making I can't stand. Poor education on food is also no excuse, the majority of people have internet access to look up good advice. And eating healthy can be cheap. As an ex-fatty I know they love looking for excuses why it's not their fault or looking for something to blame it on, because I did the same before one day I decided to sort my ****ing life out. And yes current me is still very much disgusted by the old me 🙂
Imo sugar, "bad carbs" etc can't really be blamed either, otherwise how would I have managed to lose 2 stone/6" off my waist and go down 3 t-shirt sizes in a few months when my diet consisted of bread, cereal, microwave lasagnes and beer? It's because I was riding all day every day and expending more than I was consuming, simple as that!
It's somewhat shocking and saddening for me to see how little empathy there is for a significant proportion of the population.
Quite right too
I have no sympathy for smokers
I have no sympathy for fatties
Both are choosing bad health
Good list Miketually!
@ _tom_ I reckon most in the "it's complicated" camp probably subscribe more than they're letting on to the "put it down and get up and do something" view. That's not a surprise given that most of us are actually pretty fit and willing to get out there, whatever the weather. But, do you not think it is weird how [url= http://www.noo.org.uk/NOO_about_obesity/adult_obesity/international ]national averages are so different[/url]? Is this because our society's members are somehow weaker and lacking in will-power than people in other societies, or might different cultural histories, norms, food industry regulations and legal structures play a role?
It's because I was riding all day every day and expending more than I was consuming, simple as that!
IT IS NOT THAT ****ING SIMPLE!
It worked for you. You seem only to know about your case. Everyone starts from a different point, everyone's body is different and reacts differently to food.
Do some ****ing reading and realise how little you know. It's great that you achieved weight loss, well done, but this IS a complex issue despite your ignorance.
Oh yes, I forgot that you're a beautiful and unique snowflake molly 🙂
And yes current me is still very much disgusted by the old me
Good luck with the therapy sessions _tom_!
I think some of it is down to nutritional knowledge. Lots of people start diets in January that are based around salad and more salad because they think thats what a diet is. 2 weeks later they are fed up and back to their usual eating habits.
Oh yes, I forgot that you're a beautiful and unique snowflake molly
It's not that. You are a wrong and ill informed snowflake, on this particular issue.