[Closed] This Obesity Thing

Discipline, self restraint and a bit of self respect would help many people. They are lazy of mind as well as physically idle.

I can totally see how it would be easily to mentally get stuck in a rut. The only way out though is to take ownership and do something about it.

Which is slightly harder than doing nothing about it but not exactly difficult if you can be bothered to think about what you eat.
Today I did some freebie work for a charity that helps people with pancreatic cancer. Met some sufferers who were going to be photographed/filmed as part of an ad campaign. Pancreatic cancer survival rates have not changed for 40 years.
Those sufferers have my sympathy, people who are fat through overeating don't.

Pretty much what NZCol said (apart from the ginger bit)

Imagine being so useless you were incapable of doing anything about your problems?

Are you similarly unsympathetic towards people who are say, so depressed they kill themselves?

In England, most people are overweight or obese. This includes 61.9% of adults and 28% of children aged between 2 and 15.

If people are genuinely ill through no reason of their own doing then yes they have my sympathy.
Shoved cake down your hole and sat on your fat arse? No. Same goes for drinking/smoking to an early grave.

If people are genuinely ill through no reason of their own doing then yes they have my sympathy.
Shoved cake down your hole and sat on your fat arse? No. Same goes for drinking/smoking to an early grave.

BUT 60% ( and growing) of the population are not just going to "wake up and smell the roses" Unless there is some decisive action around education and legislation the problem will continue to get worse. Whether you like it or not there is a food and drinks industry looking to profit and providing proper healthy food is way down their agenda.

Sorry I didn't realise it was a thyroid/genetic/psychological/other condition* that made you a bloater.

*delete as appropriate

Yes, a thyroid condition can make you a bloater even if it is treated.

I have very little self control with food and can easily polish off most of a tub of pringles/family sized bag of crisps/packet of biscuits/tub of ben and jerry's.

I can manage NOT to buy them in the first place.

Fat people can lose serious weight if they have the desire as we see from those slimmer of the year awards, most don't really care when it comes down to it. Every and then there's a story in the papers about someone who saw their holiday photos, or whatever, and felt so ashamed that they sorted themselves out.

I had a mate who was very overweight in my student days. One summer got a job on a building site, came back in great shape. Gotta want to do it.

The point is that if 60% are overweight, then overweight is the norm. Perceptions change. People tell me I'm too thin, my BMI is 24, so I'm actually just the right side of oveweight.

This is why showing 27stone people on these news reports is unhelpful, show someone who's 6ft and 16 stone as an example of obesity, would be an eyeopener to many I think.

Also, if the problem is 60% of pop and rising, then its systematic and not individual, no amount of preaching personal responsibility is going to help.

The point is that if 60% are overweight, then overweight is the norm. Perceptions change. People tell me I'm too thin, my BMI is 24, so I'm actually just the right side of oveweight.

This is why showing 27stone people on these news reports is unhelpful, show someone who's 6ft and 16 stone as an example of obesity, would be an eyeopener to many I think.

Also, if the problem is 60% of pop and rising, then its systematic and not individual, no amount of preaching personal responsibility is going to help.

Spot on.

Discipline, self restraint and a bit of self respect would help many people. They are lazy of mind as well as physically idle.

+1

The Olympics cost how much? Have we as a nation actually changed any bad habits? Was it good value for money?

It's only the chunkards that have bad habits ain't it?

It's only the chunkards that have bad habits ain't it?

Not seen many chubster crack addicts

Some real eloquent intellectuals about tonight.

The Olympics cost how much? Have we as a nation actually changed any bad habits? Was it good value for money?

60% prioritised exercise over dietary changes. 49% tried to cut back on fatty foods, 48% went for smaller portions and 48% tried to cut back on sugar. (A number of people obviously tried more than one technique). The food industry message of "eat what you want and get off your lazy backside", sadly appears to be having an impact.

I don't think we will every change it, blaming food is an easy way out. You can still buy fruit and veg and make a healthy meal in 15 minutes. I'm amazed to hear people saying things like "it takes too long to cook stuff", no it takes EFFORT to cook stuff but you can bang together a healthy meal in less than 15 minutes no problem.
Yes it is much easier to buy convenience foods but there has to be a balance and some education to that effect IN KIDS will help. Changing attitudes is one large part of it.
Are you similarly unsympathetic towards people who are say, so depressed they kill themselves?

I'm sympathetic to a point, to hear that 60% of the population are overweight means that there will be a small percentage that have significant problems - be them medical or mental, that inhibit the ability to get out of the position. The rest are in a position to take some responsibility and make some change - irrespective of social standing.

 

Not seen many chubster crack addicts

The weirdest Breaking Bad episode idea just went through my head

Of course, genetics means that some of you will indulge yourselves just as much, if not more, as others, but by chance remain outside the 60%.

I suspect that number is actually quite a lot. I know very very few people who show much restraint in what they eat. Most people who are skinny are congenitally so. Most people in my sedentary line of work are slightly chubby. Not obese though.

And let's not overlook the fact that carrying a bit of fat and being sedentary won't make you overweight, but if you do a lot of exercise the extra muscle might. If the figure of 60% is using the BMI scale, it's notoriously bollocks.

All sorted.

Nope, still a ****.

BMI is good enough at population level. Muscly rugby players wrongly classified as obese are offset by spindly limbed fat bellied high body fat but healthy bmi types.

Nope, still a ****.

[img] [/img]

😆

I blame diet cola, fat folks drink gallons of the stuff!

Can some of these wonderful skinny people on this thread post up their food diaries please?

I'm glad to see that everyone has a really good understanding of obesity. You don't have a **** clue. Live the life and then understand.

If it was so easy the country would be full of people the "normal" size.

This thread shows the sort of short sighted bigotry that obese people have to face on a daily basis.

lol. I completely agree with everything MrSmith has posted in this thread which is pretty unusual! I used to be morbidly obese/xxl (sometimes xxxl) and am now a size small. Basically incredibly fat people, or at least those who aren't even trying, are sickening to me and I'm not even over exaggerating.

Are you a **** as well?

Ah.. Those who aren't even trying. That is a fair point. There probably are lots of obese people who aren't trying and blaming everything else as an excuse. But that certainly does not apply to 60% of the population. And banging on and on about the morbidly obese denialists does nothing at all to help the debate for the 60%. Furthermore it smacks of sport, and not the good kind.

Would anyone of you people with all the answers care to explain why I am so hungry currently?

Lot of butthurt blimps in this thread.

How hard are people trying to loose weight? How about not becoming a bloater in the first place?

Wanna loose it? Get on the road bike and do steady 100k three times a week and have a salad after and nothing else until the next day. Done.

I think anyone who's overweight or smokes should be refused NHS treatment for related illnesses.

I used to be morbidly obese/xxl (sometimes xxxl) and am now a size small. Basically incredibly fat people, or at least those who aren't even trying, are sickening to me and I'm not even over exaggerating.

Ha ha. Sounds like someone still has some personal issues to deal with. 😆

Are you a **** as well?

Maybe. Laziness and greediness are just traits I don't desire in people I want to be around.

no it takes EFFORT to cook stuff but you can bang together a healthy meal in less than 15

My default can't be bothered meal is salad, takes around 3 minutes and even less skill.

Has anyone mentioned their 'inner chimp' yet?

Even by STW standards this is a pretty ill informed debate and I am amazed at how many people really lack any comprehension of the problem and more importantly a solution.
Just telling 60% of the population to sort themselves out doesn't work.
There is a WHO report that the Times has uncovered that recommends "free sugars" represent a max of 5% of total energy intake. Have you any idea how hard the sugar industry will try to suppress this type of information?

Maybe. Laziness and greediness are just traits I don't desire in people I want to be around.

Although in some respects I can empathise with this viewpoint, but it's hardly ******* helpful is it? And does nothing to address the causality of such behaviour. Greed and laziness are deeply entrenched elements of human behaviour, they've been their far longer than this "obesity epidemic", the shift that's occurred with regards to "greed and laziness" is that our ability to indulge is enabled.

My BMI is (after a predictable Christmas blip) bang on, and I usually manage 12-17hrs of solid exercise per week mainly consisting of Fell Running or Turbo Training. On the face of it that doesn't suggest I'm lazy and greedy. But I am, few things are more gloriously satisfying as lounging around on the sofa eating crisps until I'm nauseous. The behaviour is there, it's there in pretty much everyone I know to varying degrees. The food industry doesn't generate this initial behaviour, although it certainly exploits it, and almost certainly exacerbates the problem with poor (addictive) nutrition.

Whatever the solution is to rising obesity, it's something that needs to work with human behaviour. Probably involving a big dose of food industry regulation and education from a young age to shift the cultural dynamics before lifelong patterns form.

And the last thing that solution will be, is sneering abuse.

And did I see the fasting diet getting criticised on the news this morning?

Obese people are often lost before they start then its a massive struggle as its all theyve ever known. All I knew as a kid was on the go/out dawn till dusk and veg forced down my throat.

Watching 24hrs in A&E this week a 2yr old girl was eating a 4bar kitkat AND a bag of crisps. I'd never give even a quarter of that to our 3yr old..

Is that that 2yr ols fault? No.

Maybe all her life she'll struggle with weight issues and on the backfoot.

This is why showing 27stone people on these news reports is unhelpful, show someone who's 6ft and 16 stone as an example of obesity, would be an eyeopener to many I think.

^^ This is a very important point constantly parading super morbidly obese people on T.V as entertainment dressed as documentary, is having the effect of making the 60% of people who are obese, think they are not doing too bad and normalizing fatness.

Those blaming the individual for being fat are of coarse correct in one sense, but are missing the much greater problem, that we are doing something fundamentally wrong as a society, and it will be everyone's problem at some point, whether you are fat or thin.

Obesity isn't a mental issue, when the 27 stone 27 year old (or any other young obese person) was being overfed as a youngster was that a mental issue for the kid?

@ 183 and 85k I am no whippet but that's an improvement on the 110k I was this time last year.

Change came first with education; there's sugar in yoghurt, fruit juice, and just about everything labeled as low fat. After a while sugar tastes quite bad. Every meal doesn't need to include bread and potatoes and being a bit hungry is OK.

As per earlier post I'm neither blaming individuals or their environment entirely, to eat when it's there is a human condition preyed upon by companies and there shiny young marketeers.

Similarly, taking the easy physical option in a human characteristic the world has evolved to satisfy, so much so that it actually make it difficult for those who do have the will power to move( hence the cyclist/motorist clash).

Annoyingly for a forum spat, there's no one thing to blame but the unlikeliness of changing the human condition suggests the best way to fix it would be regulate food manufactures and make getting around under your own steam/playing outside safe options.

Hunger is hormonaly driven and the stomach is the largest hormone producing organ in the body
People who have gastric band surgery don't lose weight because they can't eat any more or stop absorbing nutrients
It's because their hormone levels drop off over night infancy their type 2 diabetes is also cured straight away

In that respect it's a medical condition like alcoholism or any other addiction

Also the deny smokers NHS treatment camp are ignoring the fact that they are net contributors to the system thanks to all the tax they pay

Can some of these wonderful skinny people on this thread post up their food diaries please?

I have lost 14kg in 12 weeks on 3 meals a day and no snacking

Breakfast porridge with a nana in and skimmed milk or 2 poached eggs on toast

Lunch One sarnie ,chicken salad,or tuna even a bacon roll but nothing with it

Evening meal last night jacket spud with tuna often rice or pasta .I just cut down the portion size and eat the same as the family .

Rarely drink now ,the odd scotch at home diet coke in the pub no take away and no pizza or crisps

normalizing fatness.

This is the problem. Shops sell clothes up to 6XL, politically correct teachers, doctors etc tell us we cannot use "fat" as a negative, TV shows feature grossly overweight people who make other fatties seem "normal".

If you can't get clothes to fit, you get called "fatty" and you don't see loads of people worse than you, there's the incentive to do something about it if you aren't motivated by health benefits. A bit of stick if carrot isn't working.

Obesity isn't a mental issue, when the 27 stone 27 year old (or any other young obese person) was being overfed as a youngster was that a mental issue for the kid?

So from the begining for the first 15yrs of your life you only know one way- you are already probably heading towards being very fat. So you are struggling psychologically with self esteem etc. You sink into habit.

For instance I have a strong desire and comfort in such foods as Liver and Carnation milk. Thats because I had it as a child and feel comfortable eating it. If I was brought up on fish and chips for three dinner meals a week- don't you think it'd be very hard to avoid eating them? Of course it'd be hard.

Liver and carnation?

Well there goes my breakfast

Food of Gods 8)

That Gooseberry pie, corn beef hash and Dixons ice cream.

Oh yum yum.

Still lots of excuses.
Don't want to be fat? Take control of what you eat. It's so easy yet people still blame outside factors because that's easier than not having that donut.
I don't have a problem with people who are happy eating what they like and being a bit overweight, it's those that desire to lose weight but blame external factors and not themselves when they can't I have no sympathy for.

I'm 5'2" & weigh 9stone 7lb at last count.
I don't drive, cycle everywhere and work standing up in a fairly physical job. I've logged 200 miles & over 13'000ft of ascent on the road bike since Jan 1st.
That's the good bit. The bad bit is that i am lazy, i like to eat junk (crisps & chocolate/chocolate biscuits) but i hardly ever touch fizzy drinks. My weight is kept in check by a physical job and regular cycling - but thats because i enjoy cycling, not because i do it as a form or exercise. If, like the majority of the modern working population, i drove to work, sat on my backside in an office all day then drove home i too would be overweight. Although my job doesn't pay as much as most office based jobs i suppose i'm lucky in that my health (so far) is better than the average.
Its modern life thats killing us.

For instance I have a strong desire and comfort in such foods as Liver and Carnation milk

what? no Fava Beans?

It's because kids aren't allowed to bully the fat kids at school anymore 😉

IanW - Member
Change came first with education; there's sugar in fruit juice

I don't drive, cycle everywhere and work standing up in a fairly physical job. I've logged 200 miles & over 13'000ft of ascent on the road bike since Jan 1st.
That's the good bit. The bad bit is that i am lazy

Can some of these wonderful skinny people on this thread post up their food diaries please?

Mines pretty similar to yours apart from potato/rice. And I have half water half milk in porridge. I basically just try to avoid sugar and loads of carbs and try to get at least 80g protein a day (mfp says I should be aiming for 120g but that's a bit ambitious I reckon). I'm currently eating a bit more than maintenance to try and put muscle on but its really not hard to eat at a deficit at around 1600-1800 calories.

Great now I'm starving 😀

MrSmith - Member
Still lots of excuses.
Don't want to be fat? Take control of what you eat. It's so easy yet people still blame outside factors because that's easier than not having that donut.
I don't have a problem with people who are happy eating what they like and being a bit overweight, it's those that desire to lose weight but blame external factors and not themselves when they can't I have no sympathy for

I can only assume you are either young or ill informed or perhaps both.

[url= http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3199 ]Wrong dietary advice[/url]

In the early 1980’s, public health advice changed from “carbs are fattening” to “base your meals on carbs” and “avoid (saturated) fat”. This U-Turn in dietary advice has had catastrophic consequences. It is no coincidence that obesity has gone up ten fold since diet advice was changed.

Rusty Shackleford - Member
IanW - Member
Change came first with education; there's sugar in fruit juice
What the deuce?! You'll be telling me there's fat in butter next

Obviously not common knowledge though is it, as well as being such a witty sage you must be smarter than the average dude.

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that a couple of generations are essentially screwed, except for a small number of people on the margins who will respond positively to public health messages or dire warnings from their GPs.

The obesity epidemic is now so prevalent it is self-perpetuating, with overweight body image now reinforced as normal in young adulthood, and a virtually intractable cycle of depressive illness and the resultant apathy in older people.

My view is that the state almost has to take over the nutrition and exercise of the under-15s - give them heavily subsidised breakfast, lunch and dinner if necessary and greatly increase the amount of exercise in the curriculum. Then perhaps we can save them from the malign influence of their parents and peers.

I was incredibly lucky to find a way to motivate myself to exercise in my mid-30s. A pair of my old trousers arrived in the garage for rags this weekend - eight inches bigger waist than my current ones. The weird thing was, I had no real idea just how big I'd got.

My view is that the state almost has to take over the nutrition and exercise of the under-15s - give them heavily subsidised breakfast, lunch and dinner if necessary and greatly increase the amount of exercise in the curriculum. Then perhaps we can save them from the malign influence of their parents and peers.

Is it even worth worrying about?

In my teens/early twenties i was skinny - seriously skinny, with a waist of <24" and weighed about 7.5 stone. In my mid twenties i started drinking more often, from thursday evening til sunday evening. Basically i would blow my wages on booze then spend what was left on cheap food til thursday night and the cycle goes on. Looking at pics of myself from back then i piled the weight on, right little fat faced git. When i was around 32 i discovered cycling and the weight started to slowly drop. It's only in the last five yrs since i stopped doing the re-enactments (with the associated heavy drinking) and riding more that my weight has stabilised. Whilst my actual weight hasn't gone down too much its muscle rather than flab nowadays. I still think i need to lose some weight but MsD is horrified by that idea.

I can only assume you are either young or ill informed or perhaps both

Old enough to remember there only being 2 fat kids in my year at school (what's the percentage now?)
Informed enough to understand what the small print on a food label means, make basic healthy lifestyle choices and be 6ft and less than 70kg all my life.

I can only assume you either lack self control or are a corpulent face stuffer or perhaps both.
There is a slight chance you are a 'feeder'.

Is it even worth worrying about?

Of course. Even if I bring up my kids to be healthy, and they do the same for theirs, their economic prospects and their healthcare system will be crippled by the cost of a huge number of people in their 40s,50s and 60s with obesity-related illnesses such as type II diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

As a former chubster - 5'9" and over 17 stone, I can speak with some experience. For me it came down to a realisation that I didn't want to look like that, and a small health scare. I wanted to be around for my kids.

Bought a bike, and started riding short distances. Being a competitive person I bought a bike computer and tried to beat my best average speeds and longest rides. At the same time, started to cut out the crap (crisps every day) and the weight just fell off.

Now sub 12 stone and running around 1 hr 35 min half marathons. Fitter than I've been for 25 years. Sadly it does come down mostly to self control in terms of eating, combined with some gentle (and increasingly harder) exercise.

I've kept a pair of size 42 inch waist trousers to keep me motivated. 12 inches bigger than current trousers.

Of course. Even if I bring up my kids to be healthy, and they do the same for theirs, their economic prospects and their healthcare system will be crippled by the cost of a huge number of people in their 40s,50s and 60s with obesity-related illnesses such as type II diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

Predictable arseholes are predictable.

You're probably right, certainly I think for the current generation of adults. I still hold a flicker of hope for today's kids, which fades every time I see a muffin-top on a 13-year-old or a kid being stuffed with a burger and fries.

Weight/obesity threads are a great way of finding out who all the ***** on the forum are.

Has it been mentioned yet that it looks as if obesity is levelling off? Which makes sense if you think about it:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/obesity_its_worse_than_we_thought_bullshit/

IanW - Member
Obviously not common knowledge though is it, as well as being such a witty sage you must be smarter than the average dude.

[img] [/img]

Perhaps those that can't be arsed are slowly being eliminated from the gene pool. Darwin...he was a scamp, eh!

Well, it's clearly printed on the product label, so one doesn't have to be smarter than the average dude to figure it out.

It's "natural" sugar and "there's no fat" and "fat is bad".

Perhaps those that can't be arsed are slowly being eliminated from the gene pool. Darwin...he was a scamp, eh!

You don't understand how ill health through obesity, or evolution, works.

My view is that the state almost has to take over the nutrition and exercise of the under-15s

Hmm well look what happened when Jamie Olive got schools to provide healthy food - some parents passed fast food over to their kids.

So yeah it's an education thing but need to somehow get the parents to instill good habits into their kids at a young age. Must admit I have arguments with my wife for being more lax with our 3 year old than I'd choose to be but he's very active and in healthy shape so try not to make too big a deal out of it. He'll always do plenty of exercise with us so that's half the battle.

Weight/obesity threads are a great way of finding out who all the ***** on the forum are.

These an * in blimps

Rusty Shackleford - Member
IanW - Member
Obviously not common knowledge though is it, as well as being such a witty sage you must be smarter than the average dude.
Well, it's clearly printed on the product label, so one doesn't have to be smarter than the average dude to figure it out.

Perhaps those that can't be arsed are slowly being eliminated from the gene pool. Darwin...he was a scamp, eh!

These an * in blimps

You're assuming that everyone who disagrees with your "toughen up sweetie" approach is fat. You are wrong.

Has it been mentioned yet that it looks as if obesity is levelling off? Which makes sense if you think about it:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/obesity_its_worse_than_we_thought_bullshit/

Quite curious about the author of that piece, Rob Lyons. He has a lot of pieces which are very supportive of the food industry, and vitriolic about any moves to inhibit their ability to serve up what they want to the public. May well be genuinely held views, of course.

Graphs showing short-term trends may be helpful in evaluating long-term predictions (2050 levels), but I'm not convinced.

miketually - Member
Weight/obesity threads are a great way of finding out who all the ***** on the forum are.

What word for "fatty" triggered the swear filter there?

What word for "fatty" triggered the swear filter there?

Well done on proving his point so succinctly, 'legend'.

You're assuming that everyone who disagrees with your "toughen up sweetie" approach is fat. You are wrong.

? I think it's you who is doing the assuming.

MrSmith - Member
I can only assume you are either young or ill informed or perhaps both
Old enough to remember there only being 2 fat kids in my year at school (what's the percentage now?)
Informed enough to understand what the small print on a food label means, make basic healthy lifestyle choices and be 6ft and less than 70kg all my life.

[b]I can only assume you either lack self control or are a corpulent face stuffer or perhaps both.
There is a slight chance you are a 'feeder[/b]

Wrong again Mr Smith. 72.5 Kg and 5 10. I race road, cyclo cross and train 3000-5000 miles a year. I'm informed enough to know that if a product needs a food label you shouldn't be eating it. That does not mean I look down at the majority of the population that are getting more and more over weight. It is a huge issue, there has been poor government advice and there are massive industries in food, dieting and gyms that are very happy with the way things are.

What word for "fatty" triggered the swear filter there?

Guess again.

Looking at the sides being taken here won't show you who is overweight, it just reveals attitudes.

MrSmith plays the part of an utter tosser with great aplomb yet again. Bravo!