[Closed] This Obesity Thing

If people are crap at sports they won't partake in them. Being crap at sport is usually a hand / eye coordination / balance thing so if you are shit at football you're likely to be shit at tennis/rugby/basketball. It' snot much fun being picked last every time.
My eldest has unfortunately inherited my lack of balance / hand eye coordination / general shitness at most ball sports, but thankfully has inherited mrs J's endurance / cardiovascular greatness and is currently revelling in out running all the little bastards that have made football practice a less than enjoyable experience over the past few years.
I've no chance of keeping up with him on the bike/ hill now 😀

Exercise helps, but it's what you eat that makes you fat. If you're stuffing yourself with crisps and chocolate all day then running on a treadmill for 20 minutes isn't really going to make much difference.

Its alarming I,m getting very fattist!!! in trouble with the wife for commenting on her overweight friends FB posts about dieting! Told them all to buy a bike or do something else that watching crap factor/voice/splash!

I saw that article too – very sad. She came across as bright, knew the rational arguments, but in a deeply negative spiral. Clearly 'addiction' is difficult to apply in this context, but given that all of us are prone to irrational behaviour of varying extents, she has my sympathy.

She came across to me as that she now thought it was someone else's job to help her lose the weight

NO ITS NOT, STOP SHOVING FOOD IN YOUR GOB AND DO SOME EXERCISE!

Fat people are harder to kidnap though.

Not sure exercise is always the answer.
It makes people hungry and tires them out.
Not ideal for someone who eats crap and already struggles to get off the sofa.

Someone who is 27 stone is going to struggle to do any sport. Moving more also presents difficulties for someone that weight. It's not a case of simply exercising more, although any extra activity will be potentially beneficial.

Exercise purely as a weight loss tool does not work. It has to be combined with a change in diet to be effective. When someone has a weight problem of that magnitude then the underlying motivation to eat that much is as much akin to drug addiction or alcoholism.

Some nasty posts. 😐

Thought this was going to be about fat bikes.

I blame Nigella Lawson [/current affairs].

For most people sport/gym is not going to do the job on its own. For an unfit person It is only going to burn a couple of thousand calories a week if you are lucky, which can be easily undone with a packet or two of hobnobs. People need to be more active in all aspects of their life. This needs to be combined with going down different aisles in the supermarket. Buying ingredients rather than energy dense and sugary prepared foods. It does not need to cost a lot or take much time to cook.

I find it a bit odd though. You can't turn on the tv without a program about fat people. people seem to get off on feeling a bit smug that we are not quite as fat as the people on TV. Ok it costs the NHS a lot of money, but so do plenty of other things.

I think the increase in obesity must have some link to the reduction in general levels of everyday activity, like walking to school, walking to the shops, etc.

It's strange how obesity lags the amount of sugars / sugar analogues in our diet, but the diet industry primarily tries to get us to cut obvious fats.
I can see the day when sugar is taxed like fags are, if the government has any spine.

It looks like curing obesity is the new "managing the England Football Team"

I saw an interview with a dietitian who specialized in these areas. She was shocked when she found out how hard it was for some people to stop eating

As I understand it most medical advice on weight loss includes increasing excercise

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/weight-loss-guide/Pages/losing-weight-getting-started.aspx

I can see the day when sugar is taxed like fags are, if the government has any spine

Indeed, and being fattist will be as bad as being racists. People need to get it into their smug, self congratulatory, fat headed, skulls that it is a disease.

well im getting fatter!
but im a ways off 27 stone

definately has to come from the government, partly education, partly regulation,

sadly this lot rolled over on trafficlight system for food labelling, plain fag packets, minimum alcohol pricing, letting academies ignore vending machine bans etc
all under pressure from industry lobbying

there is no penalty for been obese other than an early death and we all think that we ll dodge that bullet with the same mindset that we re all better than average drivers.

at 5 10 105kg im obese and its true at 51 you need a lot less energy yet eat just as much.. and the weight you put on is very difficult/ impossible to shift.

in real terms i eat very little. coffee and two slices of toast for breakfast, no lunch or a ham butty and i have pizza /ready meal for an evening meal i dont drink or smoke.

20 years ago i was 11 stone eating like a horse and cycling 50 mile a day
the biggest impact is the lack of excercise and its a difficult cycle to break.. i m too busy too tired too wrapped up in something else. i often say to myself i m too busy killing myself to try and live a little longer.

Exercise purely as a weight loss tool does not work

I agree, but I don't exercise as a tool to loose weight - I exercise because I enjoy sports that make me exersize, the side effect of that is loosing weight and the motivation to keep fit purely to be good at the sports I enjoy.

You can't force someone to exercise but you could introduce them to a sport that's more fun than sitting on the sofa, that way giving them the motivation to loose weight.

I'm concerned that today's kids are not getting into the outdoors enough and prefer to sit using social media on their iPhone's. Maybe they are not being introduced to a more fun alternative? Maybe they don't even know that there's an alternative?

If people are crap at sports they won't partake in them. Being crap at sport is usually a hand / eye coordination / balance thing so if you are shit at football you're likely to be shit at tennis/rugby/basketball. It' snot much fun being picked last every time

That sounds exactly like me but I disagree. I dreaded sports lessons in school. I was the worst in the whole year at football by a long shot, the last to be picked and always ended up in goal. Zero foot to ball coordination at all. Yet these days I would say I'm a very competent mountain biker, climber/mountaineer and an expert snowboarder - go figure?

The trouble was mountain biking, climbing and snowboarding were never even an option in school (it was football, rugby, basketball, athletics or cricket - all of which I was pretty cr*p at) which goes to show that there's probably a whole range of sports that would suit many people that they are probably not even aware of.

I think the big problem is everyone sees this as a physical problem, it's not, it's a mental issue. People need to change lifestyles, diet is an element of that. Many people who diet have no idea how few calories they need and their idea of normal portions / intake is way out of whack. Many others who diet do get it but because they are dieting, i.e. something different from the norm they put the weight back on after dieting.

It's about changing your mind set which is difficult. Don't really know what the answer is, it's not about taxing food to death, it won't work (look at fuel duty, doesn't stop most people from driving), if it gets to the levels where it will have an effect the poorest will be struggling to afford a balenced diet (nearly everything processed contains sugar).

Making people accountable for their behaviour may be more pragmatic, restriction of health care etc. but that to is fraught with issues.

This is an interesting topic!

If you ask someone from Public health (they look after populations rather than individuals), they will tell you that sedentary lifestyle is the second biggest killer (to smoking). Being the couch potato seems to be worse than being overweight, but active.

The real issue is the impact on the health of people and therefore their consumption of medical services and the cost of these. Something like 10% of UK NHS budgets go on Diabetes (mostly type 2 - the middle aged sedentary one), but the incidence of diabetes is going to double or more in the next 10 years!

So exercise may not be the (only) answer to being overweight, but it may well prevent disease and cardiovascular events that being overweight expose you to!

*pulls up chair and gets out hob nobs*

*reads thread, puts hob nobs down*

99% of the time fat people are lazy. Even the ones that blame genetically slow metabolisms etc.

I can eat whatever I want if I'm riding a lot. As the pro's say, "if the fire's burning you can throw anything on".

Luckily for me, even when I'm not clocking the K's, I rarely put on weight where it can be noticed. It usually goes straight on my penis.

99% of the time fat people are lazy. Even the ones that blame genetically slow metabolisms etc.

Yes but if this is the case why are they lazy? Is this because no one's shown them a more fun alternative?

I hate the word exercise, who wants to exercise, nobody exercised in the 80's, 70's or anytime before that(apart from the usual fruitcakes).
Adults have managed all the movement out of their livse, it started with the remote control and now any occasion that requires effort is seen as an opportunity for some bright spark to make life easier.

Kids can't play out because we surrounded by rivers of death, full of drivers who mistake the maximum speed they can drive with the speed limit.

The food industry has work out it can make food really cheaply out of sugar, colouring a few other bits of goo put it in a colouful packet, spend what should have gone on the product on marketing and lobbying and make a fortune.

Why wouldn't the place be full of fatties.

surely there's a sport for everyone

Possibly. But possibly not - remember that a lot of people don't like getting all sweaty and tired, which is a bit of a prerequisite.

However, we should still try - we really need to promote all sorts of sports, both competitive and not, in schools.

Adults have managed all the movement out of their livse, it started with the remote control

No, it started with the domestication of the horse.

thegreatape - Member

Fat people are harder to kidnap though.

Not really, just leave a trail of jaffa cakes and they'll climb into the back of your transit - job done.

Yes but if this is the case why are they lazy? Is this because no one's shown them a more fun alternative?

Wouldn't have thought so, I'd wager it's far more instinctual than that.

When your talking about costs to the NHS; proportionate incidence of some cancers and cardio vascular disease in countries which don't have such an obesity problem(or are too poor to be lazy ****ers) suggest you can put some of those costs at the door of the food, oil and transport industries.

I'm 47 and a little overweight by about 7lb or so (according to the bmi thingy which is an indicator). Growing up I was always a porker until I discovered biking and running.

It is painful but I know I can lose the weight if I want. While it is only an approximation I just become more careful of what I eat and count calories. All of them, including the sneaky ones. I use an app on my phone to count them and put in my biking etc. so it gives me a good idea of where I'm at.

Last time I got into it I got down to a little under 11st. Now I'm somewhat higher than that. But it is tough, especially in the winter as I crave stodgy stuff. And weekends are difficult too due to more shared meals and going out to places etc.

People need to get it into their smug, self congratulatory, fat headed, skulls that it is a disease.

Yes but if this is the case why are they lazy? Is this because no one's shown them a more fun alternative?

Yeah but to get enjoyment out of most sports you have to get reasonably good at it. I think there are a lot of people, especially women, who can barely summon the effort required to get out of bed let alone put effort into learning a sport.

Luckily for me, even when I'm not clocking the K's, I rarely put on weight where it can be noticed. It usually goes straight on my penis.

LOL'd!

It's incredibly strange just how many people claim to have a medical issue though, when I was a lad there was one or two fatties in school and a handful of parents. Drop the kids off now and there's shed loads of 'em roaming about. Proper fat too, kids barely able to walk and adults shuffling like the walking dead, disease my arse for 99.9% of 'em.

Adults have managed all the movement out of their livse, it started with the remote control
No, it started with the domestication of the horse.

You have obviously never ridden a horse.

BBC interviewed a lady who was 27 years old and 27 stone

In 7 years time my age and weight will also be aligned if i don't put any on - 55 and 55kg.

I think the activity in Schools thing is a good point

I'd love to have the money to run a proper survey on what actually keeps key age groups fit

I'd like to be able assess say a 1000 50 year olds. Look at the ones who are active and see what they are actually doing to keep fit. My hunch is that there will be an elite group still running and cycling at goo dlevel. A few might still be doing team sports. But I but that the really key group will be recreational cyclists and even more importantly walkers and lots of then will be dog walkers. Some will be swimmers

But my hunch is that the school sports curriculum and the wider sport for health thing is providing nearly no benefit.

I have.

If you're suggesting riding a horse is harder work than walking, it begs the question why did people ride them around all over the place for centuries? 🙂

disease my arse

Disease in this case doens't mean there's something wrong their bodies, it means there's something wrong with their mind.

Diabetes isn't caused solely by a sedatary lifestyle. It is in combination with a diet of high carb, high sugar, processed food. It's a disease that has increased since the 50s alonside the change in the way the food industry has processed food. Prior to this people died of heart disease caused by high fat, red meat and malnutrition.

There was an interesting programme a couple of months ago about how exercise as a weight loss tool has been marketed since the 70s as the only way to lose weight. It also showed how few calories were used when exercising even at a high intensity for prolonged periods. One of the side effects of suddenly increasing your activity level was the body's craving to fuel the extra activity with sugary carbs, because that is what the body thinks it needs.

Unfortunately our caveman brains are still evolving to catch up with 24 hour Tesco and food available on tap. It will gorge itself on any available calories just in case it's not there tomorrow. Then when you start to diet, it goes into shock, thinking a famine is on the way, and stores all of the recent intake as hard to move storage fat. Basic survival.

Biology and evolution are not our friends here.

I'm not sure flap_jack should be posting in a thread about obesity. Likely to get eaten! 😀

Disease in this case doens't mean there's something wrong their bodies, it means there's something wrong with their mind.

Burning calories for no good reason and avoiding food is a sign of idiocy.

It's the food manufacturers fault.
It's caused by modern lifestyles.
It's the governments fault for closing playing fields.
It's the computer game companies causing sedentary children.
It's the portion sizes in restaurants.
It's the higher sugar content in drinks.
It's the media's fault for making sweating/sports unnatractive to women.

Actually it's none of the above, the blame lies at the feet of the lazy fat carcasses who shovel shite food in their gobs yet like to blame something else because it's easy, just like its easy to shove another cake in your gob, like its easy to sit on your fat quivering arse.

ITS THE SUGAR.

That kinda sums it up really,but can I point everyone towards Robert Lustig's book "Fat Chance".
In very recent times the amount of refined sugar in our industrialised diets has skyrocketed. Our bodies are not evolved to cope with this - we assume we need to store it for the lean winter months. And so we do - all 27 stone of it..
Yes, exercise is vital but it's not the only thing.

Unfortunately our caveman brains are still evolving to catch up with 24 hour Tesco and food available on tap. It will gorge itself on any available calories just in case it's not there tomorrow. Then when you start to diet, it goes into shock, thinking a famine is on the way, and stores all of the recent intake as hard to move storage fat. Basic survival.

Biology and evolution are not our friends here.

Exactly. We can sit here press a few buttons and 2500 calories will arrive on your doorstep in 30 minutes. Compare this to people in Zambia climbing 100's feet for honey. (They are not overweight.)

I've got reasonably fat over the last few years. It is actually pretty easy to do, as you fall out of good habits for a variety of reasons. I do have a bit of sympathy for people who get stuck in the loop and struggle to get out. I have more sympathy for mrsmith and 5th Elephant, as there is no diet which can control the part of the brain that makes you think like a ****. Perhaps surgery?

MrSmith - Member
It's the food manufacturers fault.
It's caused by modern lifestyles.
It's the governments fault for closing playing fields.
It's the computer game companies causing sedentary children.
It's the portion sizes in restaurants.
It's the higher sugar content in drinks.
It's the media's fault for making sweating/sports unnatractive to women.

Actually it's none of the above, the blame lies at the feet of the lazy fat carcasses who shovel shite food in their gobs yet like to blame something else because it's easy, just like its easy to shove another cake in your gob, like its easy to sit on your fat quivering arse.

It's interesting to see the usually eloquent and open minded members cave in to their prejudices so easily when the right buttons are pressed. Sad really.

It's interesting to see the usually eloquent and open minded members cave in to their prejudices so easily when the right buttons are pressed. Sad really.

Sorry I didn't realise it was a thyroid/genetic/psychological/other condition* that made you a bloater.

*delete as appropriate

Perhaps surgery?

Gastric band?

Has anyone watched Wall-e?

Maybe a bit flippant, but for a simple explanation of current trends, that basically sums it up!

[img] [/img]

This thread is making me hungry
[img] [/img]

^^ Well that overshadows any concerns I had about flippancy.

Blaming individuals isn't the answer, and bullying or bribing individuals won't make and difference. We need a wholesale change in the way our transport infrastructure is set up, to drive us all toward active travel. We need major changes to food labelling and taxation to stop us eating so much sugar.

Blaming individuals isn't the answer

to stop us eating so much sugar.

Is it because people don't care what they eat and food companies don't care what they produce. Its a common theme which covers lots of issues... Its called nobody really cares.

You are responsible for what you put in your mouth.

Eat healthily, it isn't hard. Preparing dinner tonight took me 30 mins plus 25 mins cooking. Not expensive ingredients either - chicken breasts. £3.33, cans of beans. £1, onions and garlic £1, stock and herbs £0.50 rice £0.50 cabbage £0.50, carrots. £0.25. 4 large helpings at less than £2 per helping. Good luck getting a decent ready meal for £2.

Do some proper exercise. Agreed that a lot of gym goers think that 15 mins on minimal resistance is exercise.

GB

If you're suggesting riding a horse is harder work than walking, it begs the question why did people ride them around all over the place for centuries?

Because for similar effort you travel much further.

Flippancy aside; the horse, the industrial revolution, industrialising food production, credit revolution, whatever point you want to blame we are victims of our own success.

Every gain in child mortality or life expectancy has come at cost which we are now reaping.

Blaming individuals isn't the answer, and bullying or bribing individuals won't make and difference. We need a wholesale change in the way our transport infrastructure is set up, to drive us all toward active travel. We need major changes to food labelling and taxation to stop us eating so much sugar.

Or alternatively people need to take responsibility for how many pizza and biscuits they eat and stop expecting someone else to fix it for them.

2 things...
First off ,when I'm swimming I see the ladies doing aquarobics. This consists of repeatedly touching your shoulders and talking for half an hour. At no point is a sweat raised.
Second no one on The Burma Railway "couldn't lose weight."

Or alternatively people need to take responsibility for how many pizza and biscuits they eat and stop expecting someone else to fix it for them.

Evidently people have trouble with this basic task of moderation and taking control of their lives.

As a dietician doc friend of mine so eloquently put it, no fat people came out of Belsen.

no fat people came out of Belsen.

not many alive ones either 🙄

In the words of Harvey Walden IV "eat less move more"

Simples

I don't get cross about a lot of things. However, very fat people and smokers really do wind me up, mainly because you eat (quite literally) into the NHS budget and delay things like hip ops for my grandad.

My sister in law has quite bad cerebral palsy and epilepsy and lives on disability benefits, so is by no means rich. She decided she wanted to lose some weight and so bought healthy food and did 25-30mins a day on a £30 stepper machine. She lost several stone and is now a much healthier weight. If she can do it there are no excuses for anyone else.

Sort it out, people.

GB

Or alternatively people need to take responsibility for how many pizza and biscuits they eat and stop expecting someone else to fix it for them.

I prefer policy by evidence, rather than bullying and internet-opinion. Studies show that asking people to take individual responsibility doesn't work.

Look at smoking; how did we hugely turn around the numbers smoking? Was it individuals taking responsibility, or was it a combined campaign of taxation, education and a level of prohibition?

I'm glad to see that everyone has a really good understanding of obesity. You don't have a ****ing clue. Live the life and then understand.

If it was so easy the country would be full of people the "normal" size.

This thread shows the sort of short sighted bigotry that obese people have to face on a daily basis.

+1 miketually, well said

Like Postierich,I'm becoming fattist too.People are just letting themselves go and becoming lazy.Some people were always meant to be fat no matter how hard they try to lose it,I know people like this and I sympathise.Others choose to be fat through gluttony,lack of willpower,zero motivation.Some of them may blame health issues but it's probably their obesity that caused them initially.
My blood boils when I see a bariatric on a mobility scooter stuffing their face with a supersize burger and chips.

It's complex but at the heart of it is too many people taking on more calories than they need for the amount of physical activity they do each day. Which is very simple really, but the behaviours behind it are very complex...

I do think lack of education has a fair bit to do with it - as in education about how to prepare healthy meals, how to make healthy choices in the supermarket and the canteen and how to make the best of all your opportunities to burn calories during the day. e.g. in the station where you have the choice of a single flight of stairs and an escalator, how many people take the stairs?

I suspect that self-esteem may have a fair bit to do with it too - people describe getting fat as 'letting themselves go'. No-one I know who's out of shape is proud of it...

Someone needs to explain what it'll do to GDP - obesity reduces productivity (increased absence from illness) and as healthcare is provided by the State, means higher taxes. It also means we have to import productive labour e.g. Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians. I think government need to be a bit more forceful and overt about the consequences... it's going to kick our standard of living in the nuts

Gastric band?

No, that stops bile from coming out of your stomach. You need something to stop the bile coming out of your mouth.

At 51 and doing 3000-5000 miles a year on the bike and eating reasonably healthily I have been surprised to start putting on some weight ( 5 10 and 76.5 KG)

I don't think it is as easy as some suggest.

After doing some research I also realised how little I actually knew and just what the food industry is doing. How many people really understand the influence of carbs on body fat as opposed to calories? How few carbs the average person needs to consume and the consequence of excess? The amount of sugar in product and why food marketed as low fat is just so bad.

There is a massive educational job to be done and some major changes in legislation to be made if there is going to be any dent in the current trend.

BTW I am now around 3.5KG lighter after just less than a couple of weeks but have had to be pretty disciplined for this relatively modest reduction. ( no alcohol, bread, milk, potatoes, drinks ( other than water, green tea and black coffee), chocolate etc)

I prefer policy by evidence, rather than bullying and internet-opinion. Studies show that asking people to take individual responsibility doesn't work.

Look at smoking; how did we hugely turI prefer policy by evidence, rather than bullying and internet-opinion. Studies show that asking people to take individual responsibility doesn't

Good for you, I expect people to take responsibility for their actions and not blame everyone else.

No, that stops bile from coming out of your stomach. You need something to stop the bile coming out of your mouth.

All sorted.

[img] [/img]

BigSteve - Member
I'm glad to see that everyone has a really good understanding of obesity. You don't have a **** clue. Live the life and then understand.

Become fat so I understand? As much as I will often take any excuse to justify a McDonalds, I think I'll pass on your offer thanks

For the record, I've been fattist for years

Why are there so few fat people in Japan? Judging by what they sell in the supermarkets I would guess it's solely down to their diet and self control. Supermarkets in the UK stock crap because we demand it.

Supermarkets in the UK stock crap because [s]we demand it[/s] they, and suppliers, get away with it.

Supermarkets in the UK stock crap because [s]we demand it they get away with it [/s]people buy it.

Why are there so few fat people in Japan? Judging by what they sell in the supermarkets I would guess it's solely down to their diet and self control. Supermarkets in the UK stock crap because we demand it.

I'm not sure about the supermarket point. How can it be right that it is cheaper to buy processed food rather than fresh? If budgets are tight and preperation time is a lot less what do people do?

There's another reason for exercise - it may help avoid Alzheimer's Disease, as may a sensible diet.

legend - Member
Become fat so I understand? As much as I will often take any excuse to justify a McDonalds, I think I'll pass on your offer thanks

For the record, I've been fattist for years

I take it that you have never had a weight problem then. You've never had to suffer the daily abuse by mindless morons (and a lot of then seem to reside on this forum) who think, just because you are fat you are stupid, lazy, smelly and any number of other adjectives. You won't understand the spiral that being overweight gets you into. You won't understand how hard it is to actually lose weight, nor that the body actually goes through periods of not losing weight despite only giving it 800 calories a day. And that during those periods the despondency that sets in. No - didn't think so.

As a skinny whippet it came as a shock to me to find i had got a bit fat, overtly - bit of a spare tyre and jowls. Reduction in exercise due to time issues and inability to control eating as i have never had to.
I can totally see how it would be easily to mentally get stuck in a rut. The only way out though is to take ownership and do something about it.
Eat better, cut carbs and high sugar out etc. walk up and down the stairs instead of taking the lift, walk to the shops etc. There is no excuse really but it does require some effort.
Fwiw i looked long and hard at my eating habits - we cook every night and rarely eat takeaways, ready meals don't really exist here either. I did drink quite a lot of beer and had just lost a bit of focus. I did a bit of 5:2 stuff, chopped out beer midweek, cut out high carb dinners etc and reduced a few sugary things. Seems to be visibly working and i do actually feel a lot better. I has been an adjustment but nothing hard is easy !
I grew up being seriously bullied about being skinny (and ginger !) so give me a break cos picking on fatties is no different to picking on skinnies. The world needs to MTFU and stop trying to blame others for their own issues. Take responsibility and make a change.