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My parents, bless them, retired 15yrs ago. Just back from a cruise round the Gulf, 3-4 holidays a year. My dad plays so much golf he's still single digit handicap at the age of 74. These are working class folk with final salary pensions, who benefited from the post war social-democratic consensus but have left us with a mountain of state debt.
Now we are being told that by bringing the over 65 tax threshold into line with people working we are making an ‘outrageous assault on decent middle-class pensioners’.
Good sense from this chap from the Social Market Foundation.
First, they’ve contributed next to nothing to the deficit reduction programme so far. Better-off pensioners are set to lose just over 1 per cent of their income from the changes planned by 2014, according to the IFS. Meanwhile, lower-income families with children — the other main beneficiary of the state’s largesse — will see around a 6 per cent loss.Second, when all the dust has settled, pensioners are still going to be much better off than anyone else on a similar income. On the tax side, even if the uniform personal allowance were to come into force this April, a pensioner on £20,000 would expect to pay £2,379 in tax. But a working-age person on the same income would pay £3,868 — 63 per cent more tax — thanks to National Insurance. Doesn’t that seem the wrong way round since most pensioners don’t have housing costs or children to pay for? Income and outgoings aside, the over-60s are sitting on around half of all net property wealth in the UK, compared to just 15 per cent for those under 45. The contrast with working-age families could not be starker.
thats why chancellors of the exchequer hate pensions & pensions
all that cash is taken out of the economy and sat upon by the old codgers, when theyd much rather have it making their books look better
hence the last 30 odd years of eroding pensions
edit
at the same time they are the demographic most likely to vote, its a fine line to walk.....
And the demographic most likely to die before the next election...
And the demographic most likely to die before the next election...
There will be some more over 65's coming along to replace them though.
jon1973 - Member
> And the demographic most likely to die before the next election...
There will be [s]some[/s] [b]a lot[/b] more over 65's coming along to replace them though.
Who by then will have forgotten all about the tax increase...
Old gippers always vote. Under 25's generally don't. One group is ridiculously pandered too. One is shat on from a great height. Democracy, innit?
One group is ridiculously pandered too
Not by G.Osborne this week.
Well the housebuilders did alright.
mcboo - Member
One group is ridiculously pandered too
Not by G.Osborne this week.
i think you are forgetting the 50p tax rate payers....
Ok then - [i]up to this point[/i] One group is ridiculously pandered too
Bloody hell. They're still hardly being shafted, are they?
People who have just retired are the gilded generation. The rest of us won't enjoy even the tiniest fraction of the benefits they've had. But we'll all have paid for the lot of it
cynical on the part of Boy George - old gippers tend to be conservative (note small c) and tend not to change their vote. So if you're a nasty Tory Chancellor who wants to rinse one part of society to fund a tax cut for yourself/your mates, they're easy prey.
Young people should feel VERY cheated.
The cost of their education has been placed upon them to buy the votes of old folk.
The generational balance of financial far from fair.
The winter fuel allowance that Gordon Brown brought in would almost pay for the cost of University education for our bright young things.
The under 25's need to find a voice to stick up for themselves (not me...bit older than that now and bought a house in the 90's).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11550619
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/7293068/the-winter-fuel-allowance-is-indefensible.thtml
So if you're a nasty Tory Chancellor who wants to rinse one part of society to fund a tax cut for yourself/your mates, they're easy prey.
conveniently forgetting everyone who is no longer paying tax until they earn £9200. 50p rate was a waste of time, far better replaced by 7% stamp duty and no more loopholes.
If it makes work pay its a good idea, beyond nickels and dimes, its GOOD.
About time they shared some of the burden. That generation benefited from low housing and energy costs, stable economies and "jobs for life" as well as gold plated pension deals. These are all gone now thanks to poor management by that very same generation. At the same time they poisoned the earth, which our generations are trying to fix. **** baby boomers, they have a lot to answer for.
no more loopholes.
theres the rub- the only way youll get that to happen is to kill all accountants
But we'll all have paid for the lot of it
And so have they. That was the terms and conditions when they were working. Instead of having a hissy fit, perhaps we should all be fighting a bit harder for our own terms and conditions instead of being brow beaten into accepting that everyone should join in the race to the bottom(except those on the 45p tax rate). I'm surprised at you Binners.
My parents, bless them, retired 15yrs ago. Just back from a cruise round the Gulf, 3-4 holidays a year. My dad plays so much golf he's still single digit handicap at the age of 74. These are working class folk with final salary pensions, who benefited from the post war social-democratic consensus but have left us with a mountain of state debt.Now we are being told that by bringing the over 65 tax threshold into line with people working we are making an ‘outrageous assault on decent middle-class pensioners’.
Not entirely surprised that you would use your own Parents pensions to justify the actions of a Tory Chancellor. God help them I'd say.
the only way youll get that to happen is to kill all accountants
Where do I sign?
I agree we should be fighting for our own terms and conditions. But look at the state of western countries. Especially Europe. Why are all these economies bawked? Because we've been living WAAAAAAAAAAY beyond our means for far too long. That's the cold harsh reality of the situation. And now we're all having to take a bite of a huge shit sandwich
All, that is, except one 'Golden Generation' who are still insisting that they be exempt from all this. While sat on their assets
Is it time to mention the Nazis yet?
Why are all these economies bawked? Because we've been living WAAAAAAAAAAY beyond our means for far too long. That's the cold harsh reality of the situation
Someone has hacked binners' computer.
Its my annual right wing day. I do it once a year to keep everyone on their toes 😉
Jeez what a bunch of embittered folk on here. Looks like good training for when you retire! I seem to remember that it wasn't the baby boomer generation putting us in this situation, it was a certain number of Prime Ministers spending pension money to keep the voters happy. The same voters that enjoyed large benefits for doing nowt, the same voters that enjoyed the ability to "buy" large amounts of stuff that they didn't need on finance deals. Voters that were able to deck their house out in a way that was far better than my own and they were unemployed and I worked a 60 hr week. Leave the pensioners alone, they've worked their time through their own adversity, now its our turn. MTFU.
Soulwood-spot on
But look at the state of western countries. Especially Europe. Why are all these economies bawked? Because we've been living WAAAAAAAAAAY beyond our means for far too long.
They are bawked because of the current form of global capitalism. It allowed us to live beyond our means in terms of personal debt and encouraged the state to run up its debts.
So while the state goes about cutting, global capitalism remains unchecked. It's akin to shuffling some papers across your desk and then saying its now all tidy.
BAE have just opened a production line to build the tail plane for this new F35 aircraft, but the work force had to give up one days salary a month to secure the work. This is BAE, the company that makes billions in profit building parts of an aircraft whose numbers will run into the thousands.
I'm sure someone will say that they wouldn't have got the work if they hadn't taken a pay cut, but it's just a further erosion of terms and conditions. And it won't stop there.
While there will be plenty who see the profit of global free market capitalism, there will always be a far larger number who see the price that has to be paid for it.
We can ignore it, go ride our bikes or fill our lives with other pass times, but it won't go away. So, what are you living for?
As a small point - most of the BAE billions, ends up as dividends, which go to shareholders, which are the pension funds which pay pensioners!
The big problem we have is that the current generation of pensioners did not contribute enough because we are all living longer than expected. When the retirement age of 65 was brought in, a significant proportion of men dies before 65. Now very few die, and in many case have a very long life after retirement.
Based on this we need to review what retirement means and how we pay for it. The changes implemented in the budget will affect new pensioners who will only have the standard tax levels. Existing pensioners will retain the higher level, which will not be increased and eventually scrapped when the lower tax threshold exceeds it.
Add to this the raising of the state retirement age, the removal of a right of a company to retire people and we can see a blurring of work and retirement. The edge that used to exist, stopping work on the day of your retirement is going.
Reminder to all that the state pension is just over £100 a week - which is about £6k a year - unless people have managed to get a 'private' pension they will not be very well off! I can assume that Mr McBoos parents had a gold plated pension given their lifestyle.
Look around you, many older people are not very well off.
I cant believe that Many people on here seem to be blaming the pensioners for the ills of the country - most people who retire will have a fixed income that will get eroded and smaller the older they get.
Think of all those on the £150k who will now have approx another 100,000 x 5p to spend each year ! the 7% tax is on £2million homes - how many will have those that are theirs! very few, most will be owned by their company and they will pay rent, usually a small pitance.
There is no doubt the rich get richer under this government and they are robbing the poorer in society to fund the rich.
Just dont fall off your bike in future unless you have private health insurance - cos there wont be any NHS to look after you.
By the way well said Soulwood!!
mcboo - MemberMy parents, bless them, retired 15yrs ago. Just back from a cruise round the Gulf, 3-4 holidays a year. My dad plays so much golf he's still single digit handicap at the age of 74. These are working class folk with final salary pensions, who benefited from the post war social-democratic consensus but have left us with a mountain of state debt.
Now we are being told that by bringing the over 65 tax threshold into line with people working we are making an ‘outrageous assault on decent middle-class pensioners’.
So you think your dear old mum and dad should cough up because it's all their generation's fault that capitalism is an inherently flawed system that has intrinsic contradictions built in which causes it to stagger from one crises to another ..... especially, when left unregulated ?
Why don't you mcboo, you big-hearted "liberal" .......you are a liberal aren't you ? help your poor old parents and their generation out in their twilight years ? Instead of just blaming them.
After all you claim to be a one-percenter :
mcboo - MemberLiberal Ernest, liberal.
But I am part of the 1% so feel free to hate me.
Which apparently means :
[i]" When the highest-paid workers, such as bankers and chief executives, are put into the equation, the division in wealth is even more stark, with individuals in [b]the top 1% of the population each possessing total household wealth of £2.6m or more.[/b]"[/i]
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jan/27/unequal-britain-report ]Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest[/url]
£2.6m or more but you think middle-class pensioners should be forced to carry the can ? Doesn't sound very liberal to me ...... more like a child of Thatcher. So which one is it ?
.
binners - MemberIts my annual right wing day. I do it once a year to keep everyone on their toes 😉
From what I've seen I reckon you're a fair few years in credit mate 😉
Reminder to all that the state pension is just over £100 a week - which is about £6k a year - unless people have managed to get a 'private' pension they will not be very well off! I can assume that Mr McBoos parents had a gold plated pension given their lifestyle.
To be fair if you're scraping along on the basic state pension (which must be a bit of a nightmare) then you're not going to be affected by the changes in the tax-free allowance.
been working for a pensioner today.. he got 98k when he retired last summer and is getting 1650 a month index linked.. nice, better still he's only 49, a former fireman.
been working for a pensioner today.. he got 98k when he retired last summer and is getting 1650 a month index linked.. nice, better still he's only 49, a former fireman.
Pretty scant on the details there. But I get your point, ie, not all pensioners are skint/struggling.
Just as well you brought that up, otherwise no one would have known.
To be fair if you're scraping along on the basic state pension (which must be a bit of a nightmare) then you're not going to be affected by the changes in the tax-free allowance.
Please don't let the facts get in the way of a good old lefty rant.
About time. I can't see the logic in why a pensioner with an income of 15k should pay less tax than a worker on 15K. In fact given that the pensioner won't pay NI and the worker will the pensioner is still better off.
Please don't let the facts get in the way of a good old lefty rant.
So which lefty has been claiming that this change in the tax-free allowance affects any pensioners on basic state pension then ? I can't see where that's happened.
Perhaps this is more of a case [i]you[/i] allthepies, not letting the facts get in the way of a good old anti-lefty rant ?