This £2bn for cycli...
 

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[Closed] This £2bn for cycling/walking infrastructure

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Am I just a miserable old cynic, that thinks it'll never really see the light of day. Or that the councils will just paint more white lines in the gutters to claim the money.

Or do you think there will be a vast improvement in non motorised infrastructure

More here


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 6:33 pm
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councils will just paint more white lines in the gutters to claim the money.

very much this


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 6:39 pm
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Headline grabbing, I think.
Sounds like a big number but, in context of infrastructure, is peanuts.
It does, however, provide a further opportunity to hold the gov accountable when the promised investment fails to deliver anything tangible.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 6:43 pm
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Massive changes in Edinburgh - closing the Mount and North Bridge to cars and forcing cross-Princes St traffic to go down Lothian or London Road. Changing bus lanes into segregated cycle lanes too.
Knock on effect to old town will be huge.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 6:44 pm
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Unfortunately I think it's more likely to lines on the road and maybe a few reroutes rather than any Dutch style super cycle lanes but maybe, trying to be positive, it's the start of something good.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 6:59 pm
 rt60
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It’s part of the £5bn travel money announced earlier in the year, think it’s over 5 years so not new money, just a reannouncement.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 7:04 pm
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They could invest it in more Police traffic enforcement, more magistrates to enforce the reported offences, and more staff at DVLA to take away all those licenses when they hit 12 points.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 7:18 pm
 MSP
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I suspect it it just riding the wave of current support for post lockdown changes and will just disappear in a cloud of pollution.

The dutch started in the 70's and the Germans not so long afterwards, investing in their cycle infrastructure. The UK needs decades of constant investment not a one off 2bn promise. I will only believe a UK Government when they have proved they have actually delivered for their full 5 year term, none have managed in my lifetime.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 7:29 pm
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Unfortunately I think it’s more likely to lines on the road

Traffic Management Act 2004: network management in response to COVID-19

Particular mention of segregation.

"Facilities should be segregated as far as possible, i.e. with physical measures separating cyclists and other traffic. Lanes indicated by road markings only are very unlikely to be sufficient to deliver the level of change needed, especially in the longer term".


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 7:33 pm
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How can we not moan about it not happening, but as part of the cycling community - actually make something happen?

I'm going to write to my councillors - any other ideas? List them below!


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 7:36 pm
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How can we not moan about it not happening, but as part of the cycling community – actually make something happen?

I do wish people wouln't bang on about "the cycling community". No-one goes on about building roads for "the driving community". You don't put pavements there for the walking community. The argument for HS2 is not centred on the trainist community.

Just invest in proper infrastructure to move PEOPLE around effectively. If you actually invest in it, long-term, it will pay you back many times over. Problem is that most Governments, especially over the last 10 years, have all been short-termist, lead by the popular press and woefully lacking in any sort of vision.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 7:52 pm
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You make it sound as though there isn't a road transport lobby.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 8:01 pm
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Massive changes in Edinburgh – closing the Mount and North Bridge to cars and forcing cross-Princes St traffic to go down Lothian or London Road. Changing bus lanes into segregated cycle lanes too.
Knock on effect to old town will be huge.

Really? My opinion of ECC is currently at its lowest ebb, really didn't expect much out of them.

Would have loved to see the A8 cycle path upgraded, currently feels like it does more harm than good, too dangerous and poorly designed to be of much use, but obvious enough for motorists to carp and moan about cyclists not using it!


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 8:07 pm
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I've always thought that a lot of roads should be made into cycling lanes on one side and the other side turned into a one-way. We have a lot of narrow roads in the UK and this is really the only way to put alot of cycling infrastructure in.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 8:10 pm
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2bn is a drop in the ocean. Chris Boardman said that developing the Bee Network for cycling and pedestrians in Manchester would cost 1.5bn alone.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 8:10 pm
 DezB
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I suspect it it just riding the wave of current support for post lockdown changes and will just disappear in a cloud of pollution

Very much this. I actually had a little chuckle at this expectation that people will keep cycling once lockdown is over (and the weather changes.)
Even the news that lockdown might be eased has got the roads a lot busier.
And what the hell is a “pop-up bike lane”? sounds brilliant.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 8:15 pm
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Would have loved to see the A8 cycle path upgraded, currently feels like it does more harm than good, too dangerous and poorly designed to be of much use, but obvious enough for motorists to carp and moan about cyclists not using it!

The Roseburn Cycle Route got approval from the Reporter yesterday, objections set aside.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 8:15 pm
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I saw that on the BBc News app earlier

Just above the stoty of a cyclist hit and killed by two cars; both of which failed to stop.

£2bn isn't going to come near making motorists take the mental shift that will make cycling anything other than a high risk activity only suitable for those who are willing to take the chance, rather than a better alternative to sitting in a car


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 8:19 pm
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£2bn isn’t going to come near making motorists take the mental shift that will make cycling anything other than a high risk activity only suitable for those who are willing to take the chance, rather than a better alternative to sitting in a car

Yep - on Twitter there was the usual anti-cycling whataboutery from people so self centred (eg "I drive a van full of builders tools / I work a 12hr shift / I live 5 miles from my workplace and have to be there at 5am") that they couldn't see the central argument that this is about improving mobility options, not an either/or thing to force everyone out of cars and onto bikes.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 8:26 pm
 ajaj
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Traffic Management Act 2004: network management in response to COVID-19

That doc is awful. The one thing that should be massively obvious to anyone who's tried to cycle recently is that you always need a plan to be able to hop more than 2m away from the family walking four abreast or the oncoming jogger. Cramming everyone into a 2m wide walled ghetto would be a disaster.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 8:55 pm
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Southampton seem to being doing a reasonable job apart from Death Junction at the Itchen Bridge


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 9:21 pm
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It is just re-announced funding from the budget earlier this year in February. Furthermore just £250m of it this year I believe.

Having said that, my region (South Yorkshire) has allocated a large proportion of their £166m of Transforming Cities Funding for active travel and has some very good people working on it, especially with Sarah Storey as the Active Travel Commissioner.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 9:42 pm
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In the medium term there's going to be a lot more cyclists on the road as workers will be scared of getting on the tube, tram, train or bus. Was listening to radio 4 today and someone was talking abour a 10 fold increase, thought I must have miss heard as that sounds extraordinary.

Never the less, I know people who are going to be cycling once they have to return to the office. That could mean changes begin to happen from the bottom up, drivers are going to be living in a new reality if the roads are thronged with pushbikes.

High quality segregated cycle lane being constructed fight outside my window in central Manc. I'd like to have my usual moan but in this instance it would feel a bit hypocritical.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 10:01 pm
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Never happen, I seen what happened locally when the below happened.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/road.cc/content/news/207146-ayrshire-bike-lane-be-ripped-outfor-%25C2%25A395000%3famp

The same thing is gonna happen in another town locally, Troon, cracking 2 way cycle lane being built on a bloody mahoosive wide road, locals are apoplectic.

https://www.ayradvertiser.com/news/18262036.residents-vent-fury-new-troon-cycle-path-built-harling-drive/

Jesus wept.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 10:13 pm
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There is a big Daily Mail reactionary element in this country who see anything cycling related as some sort of personal affront and threat to themselves. Miserable mean spirited sacks of shit.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 11:38 pm
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E-bikes and e-scooters are a game changer I think too and should help incentivise people to cycle more, you get a critical mass and coupled with infrastructure should see more people cycling and it being seen as socially normal unlike now.

For example, the ride into Manchester is 15 miles for me and from Altrincham is 10 miles. For casuals, that's quite intimidating to do every day but on an e-bike it's basically half the distance.

I don't ride e-bikes myself but concede that they basically increase the radius around a city from where cycle commuting is realistic. I didn't see them like that for quite a while and assumed they were for fat people :D.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 11:46 pm
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Cardiff just finished a cycle superhighway. Ok so it's on a bit of a back road and IMO not particularly necessary but I haven't used the area in many years so it might've got worse.

They have a plan for a network, which thankfully includes a cyclepath on Newport Road which is the only way into town from the East and is an utter nightmare and uncyclable for most people who have a choice in the matter. If done well it'd allow me and the kids to cycle to town off-road which isn't really possible now.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 11:47 pm
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I've seen some scattered improvements around South Manchester but it's a long way from being a complete network or 'joined up' if that makes sense. I'm very fortunate to be able to take the TPT from almost my door into Manchester via the cycle path on the Bridgewater canal. That's pure luck of geography. I absolutely hate riding on the roads in Cheshire/Manchester. I just don't feel safe.

UK compared to Holland and also major cities in Australia (where I have spent time) is night and day. We're 40 years behind.


 
Posted : 09/05/2020 11:59 pm
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I can see the virus, with its increase in cycling for exercise and fear of public transport, being a significant "push" to get more support for schemes up and running. The "pull" of ebikes will help extend how far people will ride, and remove the "getting to work all sweaty" barrier.

Have mixed views on "infrastructure". I have commuted into Derby and Nottingham over the years. Both have patchy but generally ok provision, but I'm a bit cynical about big set piece super highways. The last mile or two of my commute is parallel to Nottingham's first cycle super highway - I use the tow path, much nicer place to ride, if a little slower at busy times, which I can avoid.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 3:44 am
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I'd love lockdown to create a cycling revolution and car use decline going forward, but £2Billion is peanuts spread across the country and I feel it would take a big financial hit for many car owners to give them up despite ebikes for the less fit (or simply want to arrive at work non-sweaty).

A new tax for having more than one car per household could persuade people to change and get over their laziness.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 6:10 am
 tomd
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I'm vaguely optimistic this CV will spark some sort of long term change. Short term it could just result in an increase in active travel AND and increase in car use as people seek to avoid public transport.

There is a big Daily Mail reactionary element in this country who see anything cycling related as some sort of personal affront and threat to themselves. Miserable mean spirited sacks of shit.

This is definitely a factor in the UK, but longer term CV could help change that. Apart from age, general health and fitness appear to be two of the bigger CV risk factors. Wouldn't take a lot of effort to re-frame active travel and general fitness related activities as the patriotic duty of all citizens to protect the NHS. Thus your average overweight, waddling, garden centre cafe dwelling, cruise taking, wine chugging, SUV driving, mean spirited daily mail readers could find themselves as pariahs.

Being fat and unfit could be the new smoking.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 6:30 am
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I did notice one question in the press conference where this was announced saying the average commute in the UK was 9 miles which "could not be cycled"....
I'm probably biased, but seems OK to me - if slightly long. What would that be - about an hour if you factor in stopping at junctions and chaining the bike up etc?
One of those e-scooters could get that far in a charge though....


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 6:38 am
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If they are serious about promoting cycling and walking, then they need to increase the penalties for death by dangerous driving and make causing injury by a car to a pedestrian/cyclist GBH if at fault.

Might we even the Daily Fail become pro cycling !!


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 6:45 am
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All the people i see cycling in the last few months that look as though they have never cycled before and are cycling as it is a way to get out of the house will go back to cars as soon as they are allowed to.
This will be mainly because all the other cars are back on the road and scaring the shit out of them and making cycling on the roads a horrible experience again. Combine that with some wind, rain and much lower temperatures in 6 months time and the bikes will never come out of the shed again.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 6:48 am
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Another issue is where do folks put their bikes when they get to work.

Might be a solution to have some of the unused retail space converted into secure bike storage facilities.

Same idea for the ground floor of multi storey car parks, with some form of key pass to prevent scrotes from helping themselves.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 8:02 am
 beej
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They also mentioned bring forward the e-scooter trial:

A trial of e-scootersdue to take place next year will also be brought forward to next month. Initially set to take place in four local authorities, the trial will be extended to “every region in the country who wants them in a bid to get e-scooter rental schemes up and running in cities as fast as possible”.

Electric scooters – which can travel at up to 15.5mph – are banned currently on roads and pavements in the UK. The government launched a consultation about legalising e-scooters in March and would need to pass secondary legislation to legalise their use.

(from the Guardian). This may have more of an impact - having seen them used abroad they seem to appeal to normal clothing commuters more than bikes do.

I agree that the £250M is a tiny drop compared to what would be needed, but it's a public signal we've not seen much of before - we have a government minister telling the people on the most visible current platform "you need to walk and cycle more".


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 8:14 am
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Cambridgeshire was putting together some pretty amazing cycling infrastructure before this all kicked off.

Not quite Dutch levels, but still pretty decent.

Meanwhile the buses are all empty.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 8:31 am
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A few lines on roads most likely.

Although some local authorities will try to bag some to sanitise trails for the dog walkers.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 8:39 am
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Unless they give cycle lanes priority rather than making you give way every 30m they will never be any use. Or make them so they dont have obstructions built in them like speed cameras or lamp posts, or make it illegal to block them with parked cars, or a personal favourite seen recently, completely block the cycle path to put up road signs during road works.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 8:46 am
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Round here they will pay 5 men in 3 lorries to paint pictures of bicycles at junctions. This will be done by a 3rd pary contractor , will cost £900 for each 15 min application of abit of paint.
The fat wallys who work in local government procurement will pat themsleves on the back and get a gold star for effort
no cyclists will be asked for their input
no segregation will be put in place,
no primary cycle get away traffic lights will be installed
with no significant increase in prosecution and penalties for hitting cyclists nothing will change

The roads are quiter now, but getting busier daily , but the level of risk that drivers are willing to take has also increased significantly. Even riding wide , blind overtakes into bends are now more common as the drivers calculate there will not be any oncoming cars due to the weight of traffic, till there is....


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:01 am
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A new tax for having more than one car per household could persuade people to change and get over their laziness.

Not everyone has two cars because they are lazy.

Slight concern - big investment in proper cycling infrastructure could make use of all cycle provision compulsory - regardless of whether it's fit for purpose. Which would start to erode our automatic right to use the highway.

Careful what we wish for, unintended consequences


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:01 am
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Facilities should be segregated as far as possible, i.e. with physical measures separating cyclists and other traffic.

Does this include segregation between pedestrians and cyclists?

If not, I think it has potential to make things worse. Badly signed pavements with too little room, zig-zagging across both sides of the road and a give way at every junction... Drivers will get angry at those still using the road which continues to be safer and/or more efficient, and pedestrians will be angry at being buzzed by cyclists due to the lack of space. And they will all be justified because it is a waste of money, but we all know where this anger and the blame will be directed...

It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months and years, but I do hope there are some sensible and clear guidelines to produce some bona fide quality infrastructure.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:06 am
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I think this is great news with a government telling us to cycle more.its the most I've ever seen a uk gov do.well done boris and all.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:14 am
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UK compared to Holland and also major cities in Australia (where I have spent time) is night and day. We’re 40 years behind.

Not everywhere

Here in MK we have an awesome segregated cycle network that covers then entire city (robots permitting)


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:18 am
 poah
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given the shit weather in this country its a waste of cash. People don't want to ride in the wet going to work.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:28 am
 Spud
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Great intent, but the proof will be in the pudding, if just re-announced monies then we won't see much beyond what we have, but it needs some serious effort to provide infrastructure for all, pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles. Preferably segregated. Nottingham has made some efforts, but still a long way off with some dangerous parts of the city centre without lanes etc that you have to get through.
It could be a perfect opportunity to implement the measures needed to reduce pollution in cities (by not letting it build back up), encourage active travel (safely), improving public health at the same time, and changing habits. With a well thought out strategy now could be once in a generation chance to make a huge difference.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:31 am
 poly
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They could invest it in more Police traffic enforcement, more magistrates to enforce the reported offences, and more staff at DVLA to take away all those licenses when they hit 12 points.

I think you have a misplaced concern about where the problem lies.

There’s no absolute shortage of magistrates (they are after all only paid expenses so theoretically cheap); there have been massive building closures and the support staff within the Court service (who advise the mags, do the admin, run the buildings etc), have seen huge attrition.

DVLA arent the ones to decide if you get disqualified under totting up - that’s the magistrates. Resource has nothing to do with the number of people on 12+ points still driving. The bad news for people who find that abhorrent is that in times of economic crisis the appeal courts have previously decided that the financial impact of losing your license is something relevant to take into account- and I expect there will be lots of people (perhaps with some underlying medical condition) emphasising that they couldn’t use public transport because of the virus risk.

Where there are funding issues is within the prosecution service, and in legal aid. Meaning that cases often get dropped because of errors in admin or deadlines being hit, or (often the least capable) people trying to defend themselves and clogging up the courts with cases that end up costing the public purse more than if we’d just paid for a few hours of a solicitors time.

What they might need is some realistic alternative to fines. If someone is on low income struggling to make ends meet every week/month anyway then a fine often becomes a punishment on their children rather than the offender. Hence why fines end up being paid at crazy low rates like £5/fortnight; add to that the situation in England where prosecution costs often end up far higher than the fine and you have a message that traffic offences are trivial.

Without doubt if you are worried about road safety then you need more enforcement or at least proactive visibility of those who can enforce, but I don’t think magistrates/dvla are going to be complaining if you do. In reality with so little road use for the last 7 weeks they will probably be rather quiet. But you’d want that even to enforce all the new found Lycra louts who discover that when on a bike (or escooter) they can terrorise pedestrians.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:38 am
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UK compared to Holland and also major cities in Australia (where I have spent time) is night and day. We’re 40 years behind.

Not everywhere

Here in MK we have an awesome segregated cycle network that covers then entire city (robots permitting)

I've not been to MK, but I can't imagine anywhere in the UK (New Towns included) comes even remotely close to the level of infrastructure they have in Holland.

Almost every road and street has an alternative cycle way, or infrastructure designed to make cycling on the road safer. They are generally separated from both vehicles and pedestrians. And it's not just in the cities, you could take a 6 year old child out with you and cycle to pretty much any destination you like in relative safety. Cyclists are given priority at junctions. Many roads even have an alternative road running alongside them (not some crappy cycle path, but an actual road, mainly for cyclists to use). Wherever you want to go is just effortless and requires zero thought or concern for your own safety.

Spend any amount of time cycling there and you will quickly see why everyone else does.

given the shit weather in this country its a waste of cash. People don’t want to ride in the wet going to work.

And yet they have a similar climate in Holland...


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:44 am
 poly
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Yourguitarhero - problem with those Edinburgh changes is they are a temporary measure and presumably revert to the old way as soon as lockdown is lifted?

Anagallis_arvensis has it bang on - cycle paths with giveways at every crossing point, ridiculous street furniture or a randomly placed wheely bins just become impossible to use. Ironically fairly easy to fix with the right design philosophy and clarity of purpose.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 9:56 am
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 tomd
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given the shit weather in this country its a waste of cash. People don’t want to ride in the wet going to work

Aye mass cycling only works in sub tropical cities like Copenhagen, Reykjavik and Amsterdam.

There are actually very few properly wet minging days, especially if you live on the east or south of the country.

And as CV is showing spending hours a week sedentary in a metal box is not good for you, vs facing some light drizzle.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 10:25 am
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I think you have a misplaced concern about where the problem lies.

I think you've misplaced the seriousness of my comments. Having just read "The Secret Barrister" I'm well aware of the problems of the system, as well as having numerous friends in various parts of the process from copper to magistrate.

And frankly, the economic argument against bans is easily dealt with. An automatic one month ban the first time you hit 12 points. Your job protected - up to you if you take annual leave or unpaid leave if you really can't work in that time.

It's a punishment. It's meant to inconvenience you. It's meant to make you understand how important it is to keep your license so that Phoebe can get to ballet lessons, your nan can be taken to hospital check ups and that you stop endangering other road users.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 10:33 am
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People don’t want to ride in the wet going to work.

Some people, not all people. Also, just checked the stats, 230 dry days a year here. If people are happy to only cycle on those days I'll take it.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 10:40 am
 Spud
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How many of us using Netherlands as the example of how good cycling infrastructure can be have ridden there? I have several times when there with work, it's good, there is great provision and segregation, however there is also one key difference in their law. That of presumed responsibility for the driver in any collision; I recall a Dutch colleague saying this leads to the younger members of the population riding recklessly as they know the car etc has to yield and they take risks. Granted nothing on the scale you see here with some cyclists being reckless, I guess you will always have that.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 10:41 am
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Lots of moaning and cynicism and zero suggestions for how we can help support said transition.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 11:11 am
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recall a Dutch colleague saying this leads to the younger members of the population riding recklessly as they know the car etc has to yield and they take risks.

If you are going to drive around in 2 tons of SUV the risk should be on your head is my policy. The risks to pedestrians and cyclists are because of cars and not the other way around. Drivers are the new smokers.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 11:17 am
 Spud
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Absolutely Rydster, not saying it's the wrong approach. Change in mindset for all road users needed. It was just something that stuck with me, that there are issues that they too experience.
I'd like to hear your suggestions Fatmountain. Personally, tax incentives for workplaces to go cycling/ running/ walking to work friendly: showers, lockers, secure storage. We lobbied hard for it when we moved, not perfect but it's got a good uptake. Greater push for and perhaps greater tax benefits of C2W schemes. Universal roll-out of workplace parking levies. Fund properly public transport to all areas of the country, especially those with very low provision presently. Just a start..


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 11:25 am
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Some practical ideas...

Reduce 30mph speed limits to 20mph (and enforce them).

Tax breaks to put changing facilities into businesses (deducted from their tax bill so no upfront cost or admin).

No VAT on bikes.

Those three would make cycling to work more appealing to everyone, and only the speed limit change would need any real work on behalf of Govt. The others would pretty much going run themselves. Throwing money at a few bike lanes won't change much, and its geographically too limited. Plus all capital projects now cost so much its barely worth doing them anymore. Better off creating change through changing the way we behave.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 11:27 am
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Some Edinburgh changes are temporary, but the majority are permanent - they were planned for later in the year but are being brought forward

If you look at the list in this article ( https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/major-edinburgh-roads-set-be-shut-have-pavements-widened-or-bus-lanes-added-improve-active-travel-council-announce-2847270) it says which are temp and which aren't.

The Mound closure isn't in that list, but my pal (who works for Sustrans in the city liasing with the council) was telling me about it yesterday


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 11:29 am
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I recall a Dutch colleague saying this leads to the younger members of the population riding recklessly as they know the car etc has to yield and they take risks.

Of course, it's no utopia, and you will see the same reckless behaviour you see from humans anywhere else in the world. You will also see the same emotive behaviour in response to it, often blown well out of proportion or with little basis in fact (something that is not unique to the UK)

Amsterdam is a bit mental, and I'm not even going to go into mopeds in cycle lanes, but away from the hustle and bustle it's an absolute joy and I'd challenge anyone to find a better environment anywhere else in the world that so fairly and efficiently distributes infrastructure for all users, benefitting everyone.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 11:47 am
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Improve the state of our roads. I cycle to work 3 days a week and the roads are getting worse and worse. Any repairs are done as cheaply as possible and don't last wrong. A greater police presence would help, unless I'm out on my motorbike, of course.

Education for drivers about the needs of cyclists and stronger punishments for thos who break the laws. How hard is it to drive within the law. Put your bloody phone down and concentrate. If you need your licence, drive accordingly dont plead hardship when you're carelessness catches up with you.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 11:53 am
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I lived in the center of Haarlem for about a year. I lived on one of the busiest shopping streets leading to the main square, yet it was peaceful with chatter and the occasional bike bell (bar the cathedral bells) . The cycling infrastructure there was excellent, but their culture and society is also very different. It's not just the network that allows for more bikes, they have restrictions on business practices and scheduled times for car access to certain areas. As a society they have more consideration and respect for each other, and they acknowledge each others presence and an individuals rights; it's not something I can sum up easily in a few words.
I cycled from Haarlem to Utrecht, Den Hague and Amsterdam, whilst the level land certainly enables longer journeys than in the UK, it was the cycle network that makes it possible. The only time cycling felt sketchy was in Amsterdam, because of British tourists. It's easy to learn the rules of the road, they will tell you when you get it wrong.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 12:09 pm
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I’ve not been to MK, but I can’t imagine anywhere in the UK (New Towns included) comes even remotely close to the level of infrastructure they have in Holland.

Almost every road and street has an alternative cycle way, or infrastructure designed to make cycling on the road safer. They are generally separated from both vehicles and pedestrians. And it’s not just in the cities, you could take a 6 year old child out with you and cycle to pretty much any destination you like in relative safety. Cyclists are given priority at junctions. Many roads even have an alternative road running alongside them (not some crappy cycle path, but an actual road, mainly for cyclists to use). Wherever you want to go is just effortless and requires zero thought or concern for your own safety

It's not dedicated cycle routes here in mk , but very wide shared pedestrian and cycle routes (redways) & every major road has underpasses . I can get to anywhere in the city cycling with my kids (4-9 years) and we have maybe 3-4 minor roads to cross

https://twitter.com/CultureMK/status/1013861210717122560?s=19


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 12:16 pm
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Just a bit of pie in the sky pondering during my tea break - what if HS2 was cancelled? I wonder how many changes could be made to transport infrastructure to make it more bike friendly with £106 billion?

p.s. I’m not holding my breath on HS2 being cancelled, as too many snouts already in the trough.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 12:21 pm
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I don't understand the antipathy to HS2. It's weird and irrational like people get off on just opposing for the sake of it. Similar to people getting apoplectic that a protected cycle lane has been constructed in their area.

It's just a rail line and significantly less impactful vs a new motorway for example. We have a lot of rail lines in this country so why not one more to help us catch up with other countries?


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 12:28 pm
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I don’t understand the antipathy to HS2. It’s weird and irrational like people get off on just opposing for the sake of it.

I'm broadly in favour of infrastructure improvements and the rail network is desperately in need of capacity increases but HS2 was costed at £56 billion in the 2015 budget and is now estimated at £106 billion. Apart from the environmental damage of construction, HS2 themselves say it will be a net carbon contributor for the next 100+ years. The benefit/cost ration was originally estimated at 1.8 so even in purely financial terms it's looking dubious unless the benefits have managed to increase as dramatically as the costs. I don't think it's weird and irrational to believe it's definitely in need of transparent scrutiny.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 1:03 pm
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I don’t understand the antipathy to HS2.

I think its mainly down to the cost. They're spending 10 lines worth of money to build a line that the country doesn't really need. 10 regional railway projects would probably deliver far greater value for the country than a single London-centric railway upgrade.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 1:48 pm
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A net emission of one gram of carbon over the next hundred years makes it a net carbon contributor. That not a very useful metric. If that was our criteria to do anything then we wouldn't build a single home.

What would be rational is for opponents of HS2 to formally articulate their own transport strategy and why it shouldn't involve high-speed rail. That might put to bed suspicions of NIMBYism.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 1:52 pm
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I’m broadly in favour of infrastructure improvements and the rail network is desperately in need of capacity increases but HS2 was costed at £56 billion in the 2015 budget and is now estimated at £106 billion. Apart from the environmental damage of construction, HS2 themselves say it will be a net carbon contributor for the next 100+ years. The benefit/cost ration was originally estimated at 1.8 so even in purely financial terms it’s looking dubious unless the benefits have managed to increase as dramatically as the costs. I don’t think it’s weird and irrational to believe it’s definitely in need of transparent scrutiny.

Yes, even though my business stands a good chance of benefiting from the HS2 scheme, I think there are definitely better ways of increasing existing rail capacity and creating a more holistic, healthy and environmentally friendly transport system. Problem with this country are the lobby groups that can override the National interest.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 1:53 pm
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It's a capacity issue. There was a report about how it would free up even regional lines for more traffic but I can't be bothered to find it. High-speed rail is about much more than it's headline journey saving time.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 1:53 pm
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I think there are definitely better ways of increasing existing rail capacity and creating a more holistic, healthy and environmentally friendly transport system.

That may be true but otoh could be an uninformed opinion. Do you have a link to any studies?


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 1:55 pm
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I don’t understand the antipathy to HS2. It’s weird and irrational like people get off on just opposing for the sake of it.

Well, given how the virus has shown that we might not need to be able to get from Birmingham to London 10 minutes quicker for a meeting. See also the third Heathrow runway.

I'm all in favour of improving our transport infrastructure. I've just never been convinced HS2 was the most cost effective way of doing it.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 1:59 pm
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Boris learned one thing during his mayoral adoption of Red Ken's rentabikes, there are a few votes to be scored by paying lip service to "cyclists" so why not toss some money their way, it might help him later.

It's a vague announcement with some "nice ideas" sprinkled in, but I'm not totally clear on it's purpose or even who this money will be directed towards?

One might assume local councils but then the article states that taking pressure off of public transport is part of the intent, in which case a proportion going to the likes of sustrans to maintain/upgrade routes between towns and cities might make sense too. That also suggests no effort to try and grow bike/train/bike journeys by increasing bike carriage provision.

Plus bike servicing vouchers? What would a "basic service" cost these days? I think Grant Shapps might get a nasty surprise when he discovers he's spunked half a billion quid on the man hours required to keep a fleet of neglected apollos, pulled from the back of sheds, rolling for an extra six months...

£2bn sounds like a big number but what is it actually going on? "popup bike lanes"? Money to "make more bike fixing facilities available."? Eh aren't these already available commercial services?

And What’s the time frame? The next 6 months or the next 6 years?

I can see it being pissed away on white paint for pavements and vouchers to fix Dad's pub bike... I'd like to be wrong, but I doubt I am.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 2:10 pm
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I’m all in favour of improving our transport infrastructure. I’ve just never been convinced HS2 was the most cost effective way of doing it.

What is?


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 2:16 pm
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Sorry I didn't mean strategies, but what can you actually do about it? I write to my local councillors to convince them that we need better cycle infrastructure and can donate to Cycling UK, but any other ideas?


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 2:17 pm
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Here on Wirral we got this on a 4 lane dual carriagewy 30 mph speed limit, with a segregated cycle lane running on the footway,and also another 2 lane road running parallel,going past some flats that the locals living there objected to trucks going legally past their windows if the the carriageway that the bike lane has been put on was permanently closed, trucks would be serving 3 supermarkerts further up this road .


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 3:47 pm
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given the shit weather in this country its a waste of cash. People don’t want to ride in the wet going to work.

Utter drivel.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 3:51 pm
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Second most prominent article on Thr Sun front page today refers to roads being shut down outside schools to try and put an end to 'the schoolrun' as schools reopen. Advice is to cycle, walk, scoot or travel in by spacehopper!

Article then takes on a very positive tone with regards cycling, even being nice to Sadiq Kahn, who has suggested that he expects to see an up to 10 fold increase in miles cycled and a 5 fold increase in walking.

This is the Sun ffs.

Changes to attitudes to transport mobility will be driven (pun intended) buy immediate practical concerns rather than politics or ideology.

Might be time to stop moaning and open up a bicycle repair shop maybe? There's going to be a lot of punctures to be fixed.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 5:21 pm
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Second most prominent article on Thr Sun front page today refers to roads being shut down outside schools to try and put an end to ‘the schoolrun’ as schools reopen. Advice is to cycle, walk, scoot or travel in by spacehopper!

I almost don't believe you! 🙂

The local (private) school run near my house was basically a mile long row of obscene luxury tanks parked on the destroyed 'grassy' verge with their sole occupant head down on their iphone, all idling away, releasing clouds of poisonous exhaust fumes outside a building packed with their own children. I used to cycle past it every day and just couldn't fathom such a sight of selfishness/stupidity.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 6:44 pm
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I want to believe this is the start of major national improvements (and yes something is better than nothing). Having lived in this country all my life, rarely has such national sea change been achieved since Victorian and post Victorian times and has always lagged behind other nations of similar economic standing.

Most of the modern interventions have been chronically under-funded (as in this instance), short sighted, begrudged/sabotaged by competing interests and poorly managed. Implemented in a sporadic piecemeal manner like splatting a turd with a cricket bat.

The fundamental lack of respect endemic in British society, the manipulators who both encourage and exploit it are the cancer preventing real progression in this country.


 
Posted : 10/05/2020 7:33 pm
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