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Venting here really as I am somewhat annoyed.
Managed to drop my car keys outside my house (small village, single lane track). They are the type that have an electronic bit which does all the keyless entry etc, and a spare 'blade' that can open the doors (but nothing else). The blade part atatches to my keyring, and clips into the electronic part...except it obviously pulled out and fell on the floor.
My neighbour found the keys, thought they belonged to me (as they have a toyota logo on them) and put them on the front verge by the road next to the drive. You can see where this is going....
So my keys are now in several pieces. I don't have a spare set, and Toyota are reckoning £1500 ish to replace immobilser, transponder barrels etc. I have called a few auto locksmiths, and those that have got back to me are saying that the only way to get a code is off a working key.
The car is in good nick and reliable, but webuyanycar reckon its worth about £1k - it has done 153,000 miles. So I think I might have just written my car off with a lawnmower and a well meaning neighbour!
(and no - my car insurance doesn't cover lost/damaged keys, only stolen)
Now feeling slightly sad...
How much?!?
Main dealer prices were £267 for new key, £50 to program it, and £770 plus labour for a new ECU etc.
Just how smashed is the key? Through the circuitboard and everything?
I'm wondering if one of those laptop/smartphone repair shops could patch the electronics back together if not too badly damaged, even if it's just enough for the mechanic to read the codes off.
Circuitboard is in 2 halves, and a bit roughed up as well. Not sure if one of the chips is actually missing - hard to tell and I can't find any pics online of a whole one!
Certainly worth a try though - cheers
I'm assuming you don't have a spare? Even a non fancy flippy one?
ebay sometimes have spare keys that include the transponder but needs the special software to promgrame it. Worht checking youtube for DIY walk throughs?
I’m assuming you don’t have a spare? Even a non fancy flippy one?
That would be too easy 🙂 Car only came with one - not been an issue for the past 7 years. Hindsight is great!
Can’t they peogram a replacement key at the main dealers?
ebay sometimes have spare keys that include the transponder but needs the special software to promgrame it. Worht checking youtube for DIY walk throughs?
Have had a good look and you seem to need the code to reprograme a new key. Keys are easy to get (although expensive) but the code seems to only be available from a working key. That's what Toyota are saying anyway.
😬 That's grim, pal of mine is an auto-locksmith. For some manufacturers he can code a key from the vin using a machine in his van and a special code he gets from a carefully cultivated list of friendly dealers. Surprises the hell out of people when he turns up to the person who has locked themselves out of their car with a completely functional key already working.
Maybe it's a toyota thing but that's crazy money given how easy it is to lose keys.
where are you op?
Forgive my ignorance, but isn't this a job covered by either house, car or lawnmower insurance?
Can’t they peogram a replacement key at the main dealers?
Apparently not without an already working key
Getting a car started with no keys, you say?
*regional stereotype alert*
Do you know any scousers?
😀
How many pieces is it in? Post pictures.
As the value of the car isn't that high, is it possible to have the immobiliser bypassed? Not sure how practical that is with modern cars, but had to do it about 20 years ago with my old car. Obviously you'd need to inform the insurance about this. But then you should be able to use the key to operate the car so not as costly.
Is it worth checking with your home insurance, maybe they would cover the keys? Don't know if they would, but worth asking.
where are you op?
Lincolnshire - seems to be a dearth of local autoloacksmiths around here
Maybe it’s a toyota thing but that’s crazy money given how easy it is to lose keys.
It is, that's why you always need two just in case.
is it possible to have the immobiliser bypassed? Not sure how practical that is with modern cars, but had to do it about 20 years ago with my old car. Obviously you’d need to inform the insurance about this. But then you should be able to use the key to operate the car so not as costly.
It is a push button start, so the physical key can only open the door - there is no ignition keyslot. Might still be feasible, but would mean anyone who got in the car could start it.
Is it worth checking with your home insurance
isn’t this a job covered by either house, car or lawnmower insurance
Checking house insurance now - good call!
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Trying to post an image...
I have no practical resolutions over what's already been suggested, but...
Why would your neighbour think it was a good idea to leave them on the verge rather than pop them through your letterbox* or hang on to them to give to you later?
*assuming here your front door key wasn't also attached.
Hows the lawnmower?
Why would your neighbour think it was a good idea to leave them on the verge rather than pop them through your letterbox* or hang on to them to give to you later?
Yes - she is 90, so I can only assume she didn't really think it through. ANd it was just the car key, nothing else.
Hows the lawnmower?
Lawnmowers fine - eat them keys with no signs of indigestion 🙂
Useless to theOP but for anyone else reading this Timpsons copied my van key and chip for £25.
A lost one for my Mondeo cost me £200 for a locksmith to open it and make a new one so when the new van only came with one I got it copied straightaway. Anyone else just got one get it done now! Copies are loads cheaper than doing it from scratch.
Is it a ride on mower? 🤔
Could you try talking to an auto electrician? As above, there may be ways of bypassing immobilisers etc and as it is a low value car there would be nothing to lose really.
A friend bought a fiat sports car thing years ago with only one key, same deal, a new spare key was a couple of grand so he was uber paranoid about loosing the one he had.
come on its easy just rub 2 wires together, everyone knows this.
Just checked houser insurance, and only covers house keys
Just checked houser insurance, and only covers house keys
I've just checked my car policy and it covers lost, theft or damage of keys up to £1k. Worth a perusal of your policy documents?
Hows the lawnmower?
Will shortly be nicked by some tracksuit-clad scallies with an OBD reader.
Is it a ride on mower?
No, but I think it might now have a keyless pushbutton start feature....
Don't suppose you have a bank account that does key phone travel insurance?
and no – my car insurance doesn’t cover lost/damaged keys, only stolen
I commend your honesty, if not your luck.
A key that can effectively be worth more than the vehicle is an absolute asshole piece of design.
Can you find the immobiliser chip
Will look something like this:
or this
Usually stashed in the plastic cover of the key separate to the circuit boards for remote entry.
If so and you have a key blade, then thats all you need. Tape the chip to the top of the key blade, enter the car like we used in the olden days with a key and crack on.
and no – my car insurance doesn’t cover lost/damaged keys, only stolen
Sorry, in standard internet forum protocol I didn't see that.
+1 for is the immobiliser chip itself actually broken? It's not part of the locking/unlocking circuitry. It's just like a little RFID chip.
I'll find a pic of what's left of my car keys......
As the value of the car isn’t that high, is it possible to have the immobiliser bypassed? Not sure how practical that is with modern cars
In days gone by before computerised ignition maybe (you just needed to interrupt the LT wire to the ignition coil to immobilise the car) perhapse. But these days it's just a bit of code on the computer.
The immobiliser chip is that bit of plastic on the right hand side. That's the only bit (I think) it actually needs to work.
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This threads reminded me I need to clone it as it's my only key 🤣
That's where I was going asking for pics. The RFID chip might still be ok.
Looks like their are people who can help
Our car locksmiths are able to de-solder a chip from the ECU or separate immobiliser box, read the E-eprom and write a new transponder chip into it. The cost for this is some 60% less than what the dealer would charge.
https://theautolocksmith.co.uk/vehiclestypes/toyota-keys/
I’d factor in the cost of moving to get neighbours that would drop the keys off at the house!
Immobiliser transceiver chips haven't been separate from the remote function in most keys for a long time.
Having seen the photos, I'd say the main chip on that circuit board is long gone.
I was going to suggest getting the main chip transferred to a donor key, but since the chip is mostly gone bar a couple bits, that's not going to be an option.
The issue with keyless ignition, is some manufacturers require an already functioning key in order to program any new keys for security, so that you can't simply plug a computer, program a new key, then drive it away. No functioning key, then you have to also replace whatever module stores/controls the immobiliser functionality.
Copies are loads cheaper than doing it from scratch.
Unless you have a Citroen. You're as well just taking the gamble.
Can you find the immobiliser chip
@wzzzz - thanks for this, but having spent several hours searching through the green wheelie bin we have every other part (including some very small buttons) but nothing like either of those. Nor sure the Avensis had something like that, although we did once drop one of those chips out of a Galaxy key in a carpark in the dark....
Having just read this thread, I went out to pick up my girls from school. As I locked the front door, the key fell from my key ring, with the blade part still attached to the keys in the front door. This has never happened before in the 2 years I have had the car. My car is a Toyota. I live in Lincolnshire.
Looks like their are people who can help
@Murray London based though so miles from here. I have a couple of people looking to get back to me tomorrow so may be lucky...
It's not trivial this but a friend of mine got himself a full set of keys, locks, ECU etc from a dead car and swapped them into his, to beat the same problem. Some cars might have protections against that though
@Thisisnotaspoon - thanks - I cant see the actual immobiliser bit in your pics, nor in my key (mine is a square fob, not key shaped). Have looked through all the grass clippings and not found anything, and have tried the casing just in case it is buried in there, with no luck
Where who i used for Vauxhall when I worked there
I'd be surprised that a new ECU is needed...
Normally you just need the manufacturer key and imob code which most dealers charge 50 to 100 quid for.
This let's you then "unlock" the ECU delete the old key serial numbers and add the new keys.
Try another Toyota dealer and ask for parts or workshop. Try n get past the service advisors.
It's not actually a Toyota key, just giving an idea of the size of the bit you need to locate.
It's the 3mm X 8mm rectangular bit of plastic clipped into the bottom right corner.
A metal detector would find the immobiliser module? a lawn mower can fire stuff a fair distance.
I cannot offer any help but did want to say the thread title did make me laugh and conjure up all sorts of images
Nothing helpful to add, aside well meaning neighbours can be a pain.
If I want to be nice to mine, which I do, rather than leave my works van on the street I have to reverse park into the small space next to my car.
It's that tight the reversing sensors trigger constantly and I have to flip the mirrors in often to get past the gatepost at the same time, whilst not catching the back tyre on the doorstep (2cm margin). Particularly tricky if a car is parked opposite.
One evening after the bins have been collected, I did the tricky parking and noticed some resistance.
Oops, squashed the bin.
My elderly neighbor had kindly bought my bin in and put it where I park, rather than next to the recycling bin, where I've kept it for the last 14 years.
Actually I do have something useful to add. A friend had a key cloned for his 2001 Ford ranger. It upset the ECU and randomly wouldn't start even with the original key, the key guy wouldn't answer his calls, he ended up paying for the immobilizer to be bypassed by an auto sparky. Much older vehicle though.
The last time I had to do anything like this, which granted was years ago, you either needed a special red master key (so the regular key would've been useless) or to some sort of Vulcan Nerve Pinch manoeuvre with ignition positions to put the car into programming mode.
Does that sort of thing not apply any more?
That would be too easy 🙂 Car only came with one – not been an issue for the past 7 years. Hindsight is great!
Reminds me of a work colleague from years ago who I noticed was using the 'red' key for his car (Ford).
I asked why, as I'd been reading a story about Honda motorbikes where the key was linked to the ECU, and the reason he was using the red key was that he'd lost the other two previously...
Check your breakdown cover, my rac membership covers lost keys, not sure if it covers damage but you lost them didn't you...
what does it cover you for though - probably recovery back to your house or a garage of your choosing, maybe even loan of a car while yours is fixed, but I don't think they stump up for the actual cost of a new key / ECU any more than they pay for the engine to be rebuilt when your cambelt goes.
I lost keys on a trip to Newcastle one year, they put it on a low loader and started driving me south while the control room tried to find a locksmith that was open, eventually dropping me off in Leeds but they didn't buy the new key for me.
Yeah breakdown cover will recover the car (or take it from home to a garage etc) but not pay for new keys
Even if you have key cover check what it actually covers. Lost the key to my car and garage wanted £300 to supply new key and code it to the car. No probs, I thought, I'll just claim off my insurance. Turns out they wanted all the locks changed in case some ne'er do well found the old key and tried to steal the car which put the price north of £1k and invoked the voluntary excess of £500. Didn't bother and found the lost key a couple of week's later in my Dad's car, it must have slipped out my pocket
Still doesn't help the OP though.....
This is part of the cover on my RAC membership:
Cover for new keys and locks up to £1,500 including reprogramming from £3 per month or £36 per year
Why add Key Replace?
Avoid the unexpected cost of replacement keys if yours are lost, stolen or accidentally broken. To keep you mobile we will even arrange for a hire car if you are unable to use your car
We'll provide...
The cost of replacing lost, stolen or broken house/car keys (the breakage must be sudden, unforeseen and an unexpected event)
Covers up to £1500 per membership year
A hire car up to £80 to keep you mobile
Re-programming of the electrics so your locks, alarm and immobiliser still work
New locks of the same standard if we assess there is a security risk
Call 0330 159 0925 to add Key Replace
Key Exclusions
Vehicles used for business use or covered under a motor trade insurance policy.
Keys broken due to wear and ageing.
Loss, theft or breakage reported more than 30 days after the event
Any claim made within the first 14 days of the start of your Key Replace cover.
Claims where you are unable to provide evidence that you own the keys.
Costs, other than replacement costs where there are duplicate keys available.
Replacement of an insured key within the first 3 days of the date of the loss, unless we agree.
Wow. How much extra do you pay for that? I wonder if you can buy that aftermarket? Iz interest, having seen the price the OP is in for.....
Cover for new keys and locks up to £1,500 including reprogramming from £3 per month or £36 per year
I know this sounds silly, but we bought a car from a dealership about 10-15 years back that only came with the one key. We got it copied just in case, and everything was dandy.
We'd had it for a good few years until we finally went to trade it in for a new model. On the day we were handing it back to the dealer, I went through all the pockets, nooks and crannies in the car. I pulled open a drawer...it might have been an ashtray as we don't smoke, so didn't use it... and there was the original spare key, still with the dealers tag on it.
You never know.....
No help to the OP my folks brought a car cheap from friends that had lost the keys they changed the locks, new keys programmed etc. Next MOT there was an original set of keys found zip tied behind the front suspension strut! No one knows why.
Everybody loves an update.
Called loads of places that do this work. Most said that Toyota are too hard and couldn't help, one came out and tried for 2 hours and failed, but did recommend someone else who came out today and sorted it with some electronic gizmo in about 10 minutes.
Total cost £627 (almost half of that was the key itself), but cheaper than Toyota.
Lesson learned. I'm never mowing a lawn again....
Glad there’s a good (if pricey!) resolution.
Also, kudos for getting the Lessons Identified right too!
someone else who came out today and sorted it with some electronic gizmo in about 10 minutes.
Total cost £627 (almost half of that was the key itself), but cheaper than Toyota.
Lesson learned. I’m never mowing a lawn again….
Name? Link?
I’m never mowing a lawn again….
Big cheer from the undergrowth, hedgehog is a hero after dragging keys onto grass.
£627 Wow.
Good stuff
Got the heebie jeebies reading this about Toyotas so got Timpsons to do a copy: £25!