[Closed] They only wanted a damm cake, But

I was pro-gaycake until I saw the image they used.
I do wish homosexuals would stop looking to find homosexuality in places where it doesn't exist, like Bert and Ernie or Top Gun.

I was pro-gaycake until I saw the image they used.
I do wish homosexuals would stop looking to find homosexuality in places where it doesn't exist, like Bert and Ernie or Top Gun.

+1

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I was pro-gaycake until I saw the image they used.

Was it puff pastry?

[img] http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbqNkLYJa6J_uy8ArGompC55uq2xjapPSJARTIDNKBilNav5EF [/img]

2 Belgian buns, I think

heard someone on the radio who had a valid point

the bakery refused to make the cake (as it offended the owners) however they hadn't refused to serve the gay gentlemen in question and had previously and since sold them stuff from the bakery

they weren't discriminatory (in his opinion) as they were happy to sell other items to the gentlemen and the shop had a right to refuse to make a bespoke cake

Big and daft if you read the judgement there is a big section dealing with that exact point .

Worth googling Christian Concern - the group that financially backs legal fees for companies who'd like to use their Christian beliefs to discriminate. They're obsessed with gays gaying all over the place and the untold damage all their gaying is doing to families all over the increasingly gay world. According to them, Tom Daley only started all his rampant gaying when his dad died.

The Evangelical Alliance, that pillar of liberalism and progressive thinking is disappointed. I love anything that disappoints the Evangelical Alliance and their mates in the DUP that tell schoolchildren that gaying is an "abomination". ****ing backward weirdos.

a gay rights activist actively seeks out a bakery that will most likely not want to make a gay cake.

gay activist being a dick in equal measure, imo.

edit: i am niether pro gayers nor fairy believers.

It could also be seen as: Gay rights activists expose business using religious beliefs to discriminate.

Good on them.

Where does it say that they sort out that particular bakery hoping to make trouble?

In her witness statement the 3rd Defendant states:-
“.... We consider that it is necessary as Christians to have a clear conscience before God. This means that we must live out our faith in our words and deeds and that it would be sinful to act or speak contrary to God’s law.”

There is a long list of things in the bible that they should be doing or not doing if they live their lives by it...strange it seems they pick and choose

[quote=big_n_daft opined]heard someone on the radio who had a valid point
the bakery refused to make the cake (as it offended the owners) however they hadn't refused to serve the gay gentlemen in question and had previously and since sold them stuff from the bakery
they weren't discriminatory (in his opinion) as they were happy to sell other items to the gentlemen and the shop had a right to refuse to make a bespoke cake

So you heard someone on the radio get the law wrong then

FWIW i often wonder how the christians would react of folk were allowed to turn them away and discriminate against them

I suspect they would be as annoyed as a gay person in a bakery.

Correct decision as belief in a myth, no matter how sincerely held, cannot be a n excuse to discriminate.

"Where does it say that they sort out that particular bakery hoping to make trouble?"
Nowhere alpin made it up it was his local that he had used before they even agreed to make the cake.

Where does it say that they sort out that particular bakery hoping to make trouble?

I'm only going on memory here MSP, but I think it was apparent from the original story that maybe the customers had a fair idea that the commission might be refused by this particular bakery, if you know what I mean. You'd have to google the details from when the story broke (last year IIRC). I don't think it was ever expressly written anywhere (when I read about it anyway) but I did get the feeling at the time that it might have been an action to provoke a reaction and a subsequent court case. NI is not an easy place to be LGBT - with the nutters in the DUP doing everything to allow discrimination to continue, like say, wanting the ban on gay men donating blood to continue ad infinitum.

EDIT: in view of crankboy's answer above, really, I might be mis-remembering it all and making all the above up. I have committed the mortal sin of not researching Google throughly before posting. 🙂

Isn't that long list of stuff in the Old Testament things that the Israelites/Jews were supposed to do or not do?

I have committed the mortal sin of not researching Google throughly before posting.

DD - I don't think you're misremembering, there was something like that brought up first time round, I recall it too. I don't know whether it was on the original thread or elsewhere that I read it though, nor whether the source of it was credible.

Great that this has happened in NI, of all places.
I look forward to a run of requests to Catholic bakers to produce cakes celebrating the Battle of the Boyne.

I have committed the mortal sin of not researching Google throughly before posting.

and not copy and pasting long boring articles to support your view, then slagging off people who donmt agree with you, but thats just a generalisation of the general way stuff degerates sometimes on here.

I'm frustrated by this story: Where are the details about the cake? - raspberry sponge ? Fondant ? I need to know!

Hail TJ Full Of Win
The Sturge Is With Thee
Blessed Art Thou Among Plastiques
And blessed is the saddle of thine grand tandem.
Holy TJ, father of argue
Pray for us STWers
Now and at the hour of our FAIL
Amen.

x 3

For JY x

Great that this has happened in NI, of all places.

It's fantastic - it needs dragging out of the dark ages sometime. It's a good start, long as the road might be.

raspberry sponge ? Fondant ? I need to know!

It probably never mattered

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I welcome the verdict. Not for the belief that gay marriage is wrong, but that their beliefs cannot be above the law. Law being that of discrimination.

There is no religion or religious belief and teaching that can be above the law

This may have already been brought up, if so I appologise but what happens if the bakery is owned by Muslims and the order for the Cake is something that offends Allah or the Muslim belief system?

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[quote=Royston opined]This may have already been brought up, if so I appologise but what happens if the bakery is owned by Muslims and the order for the Cake is something that offends Allah or the Muslim belief system?
Same thing as here - its illegal

Or an environmentalist refusing to sell a product due to excess packaging?

Or a cake seller refusing to sell anymore cakes to a morbidly obese fatty?

his may have already been brought up, if so I appologise but what happens if the bakery is owned by Muslims and the order for the Cake is something that offends Allah or the Muslim belief system?

Well, it could be trouble if it was a small piece made by a close relative, 'cos that would be *coughs* aunty semi de cake.

/THREAD

Or a T-shirt seller refusing to sell Che Guevara tops to spotty students out of principle?

It may well be illegal but would the decision have been the same? or would there have been consideration of a possible radical reaction.

Were the Nation Of Islam float at the Notting Hill Carnival breaking the law when they refused to give me one of the leaflets they were handing out freely to BMR partygoers (I'm a honky). Yes this did happen pmsl

What I don't get is why didn't the shop just say no to the commission? Why mention the nature of the refusal? If a business says no to a request of mine, should I have them investigated in case they have discriminated against me?

Also, who asks for a pro gay marriage cake, if not to stir (mix?) things up at the shop? I'm pro many things, I've never had a cake made to demonstrate this.

They didn't just say no because they accepted the order then changed their minds so rang to cancel and gave their explanation in the call. The cake was for a party to celebrate a local councillor s election .those hosting the party and the councillor were pro marriage.

I was once asked in all seriousness by a work colleague if there was a time zone change when flying to Ulster. My reply "yes. they are about 60 years behind the more enlightened parts of the mainland".

Try the steaks, I'm here all week... etc.

My blood is boiling here, watching some **** from the DUP on tv claiming that Christians in Northern Ireland are now feeling marginalised.

To clarify, the DUP, the majority ruling party in Northern Ireland which is comprised of almost entirely fundamentalist christians (who have frequently stated they view homosexuality as an abomination) is saying that Christians are now feeling under threat in Northern Ireland because the owners of a multi million pound business obstinately, belligerently and calculatedly refused to bake a cake.

Incidentally, Ashers legal fees were paid for buy the "Christian Institute".

Would a gay baker be allowed to refuse to bake an anti gay marriage cake, if asked? Sexuality/religion of the requestor unknown.

Depends
You can discriminate against all - we dont do political cakes or we dont do religious cakes etc but you cannot pick and chose the ones you will and you wont do [ if that choice violates equality laws] as that is discrimination.

Tomhoward no he wouldn't the judgement makes that point very clearly . subject to a blanket no politics policy probably being OK.

The ruling makes the point really clearly:

"I do not accept the Defendants submissions that what the
Plaintiff wanted them to do would require them to promote and support gay marriage which is contrary to their deeply held religious beliefs."

The defendants say they don't want to promote gay marriage; the judge says fair dos, but that's not what you were asked to do, you were asked to make a cake so that someone else can promote gay marriage.

eatmusic - Member

In her witness statement the 3rd Defendant states:-
“.... We consider that it is necessary as Christians to have a clear conscience before God. This means that we must live out our faith in our words and deeds and that it would be sinful to act or speak contrary to God’s law.”

And in this case she was worried about the 3rd commandment, "thou shalt not bake really gay cakes." Seriously, where in the bible does it forbid this?

Also noticed "She had real concerns that the cake would have been identified as an Asher's cake as there is a logo on the box". So how does that apply to their apparent religious concern? It'd be OK to bake the cake as long as nobody could tell it was them?

"thou shalt not bake really gay cakes."

Got a genuine LOL from me with that.
Would these be allowed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/fairycakes_93711

[url= http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2014/02/27/a-baker-refused-to-make-your-wedding-cake ]here's a suggestion for all the hatey, butt-sore, anti-gay bakers in Arizona: start an organization—The Arizona Association of Homophobic Bakers—and publicly identify yourselves as homophobic bakers. Put up a website with a list of bakeries that don't want to do business with LGBT people. Put signs in your windows that clearly state that gay and lesbian customers are not welcome and will be turned away.[/url]

This isn't strictly relevant, as NI's anti-discrimination laws are radically different to Arizona's. But lack of strict relevance isn't stictly relevant. 🙂

The most annoying part of all of this remains the elevation of gay-bashing into the ranks of true Christian virtues.

There are people out there asking themselves "what would Jesus do?" and repeatedly coming to the conclusion* that Jesus would, above all else, be mean to the gays. While I don't have a remotely close relationship with Jesus (if he were a band, I'd only have his Greatest Hits compilation), I don't recognise the depiction of him as basically a mean-minded and prurient git. This saddens me slightly, in the same way as people claiming that Buddha never tipped in restaurants would.

*based on a close reading of Leviticus and St Paul's Letter to the Frantic Masturbators and not a fat lot else.

Jesus - never married, hung out with 12 other men.

ahh, Jesus, the magic baby born to a virgin, who died and then came back to life. Nothing 'unnatural' about that

We should respect others beliefs and way of life but you shouldnt be told that you have to agree with it on a personal level.

To me thats democracy.

Thats in general.

The cake design- why did it have to have childrens characters on it?

I was once asked in all seriousness by a work colleague if there was a time zone change when flying to Ulster. My reply "yes. they are about 60 years behind the more enlightened parts of the mainland".
Try the steaks, I'm here all week... etc.

Presumably you live in a more enlightened part of the mainland looking down on the rest with contempt....hoooray for you 🙄

I'm really happy with the outcome of this case and agree NI does need a kick up the ass so far as using religious beliefs as an excuse to discriminate.

There's one thing that has always puzzled me on points like this.

“.... We consider that it is necessary as Christians to have a clear conscience before God. This means that we must live out our faith in our words and deeds and that it would be sinful to act or speak contrary to God’s law.”

What they appear to be saying is that they have to stand up for what the believe in (fair enough) and that they will have to answer to God if they don't (fair enough if that's what you believe). Surely then it would be [i]better[/i] to be punished by your "enemies" as that would make you a martyr and that judgments like this shouldn't be fought by Christians; they should be welcomed.

"We should respect others beliefs and way of life but you shouldnt be told that you have to agree with it on a personal level."
Exactly the point of the judgement.
Exactly why a businesses cannot withhold its trade from and discriminate against a portion of the general public.

hora

The cake design- why did it have to have childrens characters on it?

Hora, are you familiar with the idea that Bert and Ernie are a gay couple? It was doing the rounds when I was at primary school, it's been a rumour/joke for nearly 40 years.

it's been a rumour/joke

Largely its a 'in' joke. However on a wedding cake?

My Dad is a Church of Scotland Minister, cut his teeth in Riccarton since there is another Kilmarnock native on this thread. He describes homophobic bigotry on what he sees as another one of Gods creations as "Bollocks" I assume that is a religious term?

He describes homophobic bigotry on what he sees as another one of Gods creations as "Bollocks" I assume that is a religious term?

Sounds like one to me. Excellent.

🙂

The gay fellas got off lightly.

Did you the mess that they made of the one for Clint Eastwood?
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hora

Largely its a 'in' joke. However on a wedding cake?

It wasn't a wedding cake. Gay marriage isn't recognised in under Northern Irish law thanks to the DUP.

*starts the stopwatch on the cake picture*

Nobody else going to point out that it's "Damn" not damm ?

Sorry, that's all I've got.

Could so nearly have been one of these

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Yes the Bert and Ernie "connection" annoys me too.

'They are not gay, they are not straight, they are puppets,' says Sesame Workshop President and CEO Gary Knell. 'They don't exist below the waist.'

I do get the feeling the bakers were trolled to some extent by the gay gentleman, because he knew how they would react.
However, if you replace "gay" for "black" does it still seem as palatable?
In short no.

I genuinely can't see the reason why people get so upset about making a cake. It's not like it's the cake's fault is it? It's just a cake. It's there to be made, made to be eaten, made to be enjoyed, probably with a nice cup of tea.

Mmmmm. Cake.

I might go and get some cake now.

And some tea.

hora - Member

We should respect others beliefs and way of life but you shouldnt be told that you have to agree with it on a personal level.

Nobody's been told they have to agree with it. They just have to not be dicks about it.

willard - Member

I genuinely can't see the reason why people get so upset about making a cake.

Because it's Northern Ireland. Here there's a concerted effort to marginalise LGBT people in any way possible by creationist christian nut bags, who happen to be running the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_Robinson#Comments_about_homosexuality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Robinson_%28politician%29#Views_on_homosexuality

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30733667

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32443730

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/northern-ireland-edwin-poots-creationist-anti-gay

Morning all. God, eh? Eh? Tch...

Went to 8 bloody pages last time
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/same-sex-marridge-cake

I got bored after the 'fudge cake' joke.

I do get the feeling the bakers were trolled to some extent by the gay gentleman, because he knew how they would react.
However, if you replace "gay" for "black" does it still seem as palatable?
In short no.

Given that it's Northern Ireland I'd suggest using "Catholic" or "Protestant" rather than "black"

"I do get the feeling the bakers were trolled to some extent by the gay gentleman, because he knew how they would react."

Of course the feeling can be allayed by reading the facts it was his local bakery he had used before. They accepted the order when he placed it.The cake could have been more Gay if it was a deliberate troll.

They could easily have avoided and confounded the Troll by just baking the cake.

Now Rosa Parks she was a deliberate Troll.

Err, dont try and turn this around to make me look like the troll please.

Would they have made a cake saying the "I love the pope"?

Ian Paisley would have found that hard to swallow....

I'll get my coat!!

What if it had been some satanists wanting a "happy corruptor of souls and devourer of worlds day" cake? who wins then?
or more seriously

Given that it's Northern Ireland I'd suggest using "Catholic" or "Protestant" rather than "black

what happens when 2 religions go head to head

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Let them eat cake*.

*Not GayCake™ though as that is a sin.

Just been anounced Mr and Mr Kipling are bringing out gay cakes, and theyre not fairy cakes.

Missed the satrt of the conversation - what's the big deal?
[img] https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSA1KfXv1A6Ue2V-2hctJe-j1OQxJmGl5m6ZdkfLFudTQhC47Rh [/img]