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It doesn’t appear that anyones doing much to avoid them, with news vanishing from the headlines.
What’s the lick, anyone here with insider knowledge?
Cost of living rising faster than wages, and the unions are battling to rectify that issue - good on them, best of luck, I say. 🙂
They're a bit stuck, I think. Govt won't give them more subsidy, doesn't give a shit. They can't put fares up much or they'll lose customers. It's all a big ****ing mess and no-one in government cares.
Well those. Reading the union pages and trying to read between the lines it seems the government are leaving them to it, probably thinking “we’ll you suck up 3 days revenue loss then…”
In the meantime, rail workers don’t get paid anymore and we all avoid going near a train station. Feels like a lose lose.
Devils advocate here - no-one else is getting wage inflation anywhere near cost inflation so why should they be any different? Also there's a school of thought that this is a step-shift and they're jumping in now in order to get a bigger pay increase.
Personally, if I'm going into London it's already cheaper and more convenient for me to drive and park for the day than it is to get the train. What we need is massive investment in infrastructure to make things more efficient and probably re-privatisation to make it all not-for-profit, but we'll not be seeing that any time soon.
Have you not heard? Kate Bush is top of the charts, Top Gun is the number one film, Russia is throwing its weight around. We’re rerunning 1986. So some large scale strikes are essential to the retro feel
Grab your ra-ra skirt and your Walkman and go and join the flying pickets 😃
I was just about to nip down and buy advance tickets from Stafford to Gatwick on the 25th when the news came through. I'm still holding off deciding anything until we get a bit closer. I don't fancy driving and 2 weeks parking.
madhouse
Full MemberDevils advocate here – no-one else is getting wage inflation anywhere near cost inflation so why should they be any different?
Exactly this! They shouldn't be any different. Time for everyone to start standing up after a full decade of being shat on and start demanding what they're worth.
Trains in this country are a waste of time for me, it's cheaper and more reliable for me to drive which is mental when you think about it. How can 1 person in a vehicle be cheaper than 1000 people sharing one to a destination?
I'm not really bothered about the strike either way personally, but I can't say I have any ill feelings towards them for wanting more pay. Who wouldn't?
Exactly this! They shouldn’t be any different. Time for everyone to start standing up after a full decade of being shat on and start demanding what they’re worth.
Without a nationwide productivity increase all you'd achieve is increasing inflation until the pay rises were eroded.
However, you could look at a more equitable distribution of wealth, but that is just crazy talk!
I don't think their timing is very smart, rail usage at an all time low and the whole system is loss making. Unless usage picks up all that will happen is redundancies and the more they are paid, the more redundancies there will be down the line....
The strike isn't just about pay but trying to stop redundancies and the changes to the service that are clearly needed. All those people now working from home aren't going back to working full time in a city centre office.
How can 1 person in a vehicle be cheaper than 1000 people sharing one to a destination?
Without wishing to get technical on transportation - those 1,000 people don't all have the same destination, which is the main issue!
rail usage at an all time low
Well that's a bit cheeky. It's true, but clearly only because of the pandemic:
Devils advocate here – no-one else is getting wage inflation anywhere near cost inflation so why should they be any different? Also there’s a school of thought that this is a step-shift and they’re jumping in now in order to get a bigger pay increase.
We're trundling towards the deepest recession in a century with a trope of imbeciles at the wheel while inflation runs at 12%.
This is the ideal time to lock in a pay rise that holds pace with inflation and good on them for doing it now before the shit actually hits the economic fan and employers cite the recession as a reason not to increase pay.
It's hardly the staff's fault for the fact that rail companies feel the need to return to their shareholders instead of invest in the network.
Im a daily commuter by rail into london
there are less trains, less frequently and they are quieter than pre-pandemic, I get a seat pretty much every day
which was unheard of b4 covid!
cost of my train fare is eyewatering
You’d have thought that rail industry workers would recognise that the govt put £16bn into the industry and in-all-but-the-finer-details re-nationalised it as a response the the pandemic: Nobody on furlough but plenty stay at home on full pay, especially when the NHS that got us through the same pandemic got a derisory pay rise.
But then, cost of living increase and the fact that train operators (due to the new National Rail Contracts which were brought in as part of the rescue package to keep the railways running) have been asking for a mandate from DfT to negotiate with unions and not received any kind of guidance/authority from the govt (I wonder why?) means that normal pay negotiations have not progressed.
Add in, as part of the new Great British Rail structure, there’s a whole swathe of rather difficult “modernisation” plans afoot, which following the pandemic and changed travel patterns are desperately needed to stop the service in whatever form (public or private-with-subsidies) becoming a huge costly albatross around the country’s neck, but which will ultimately cost lots of jobs.
Also, I *think* that the local RMT reps probably recognise that local management have their hands tied, and have worked pretty hard to try and get things back on track after the pandemic (still have months of work to get back to pre-pandemic operation) so don’t really have that much of an axe to grind. However, they have somewhat been driven by the desire of the central union leaders to create a new “summer of discontent” given the antics of Boris and his idiocracy.
So weirdly we’re in a position where unions are striking for ‘pay’ when they haven’t received an pay offer to reject but have balloted on this footing as it’s (probably) easier to explain to members with the well advertised cost of living crisis, when it’s actually about the shambles of a current government and the potential for future job losses and T&C changes which are vital to deliver a rail industry which is fit for the new post-pandemic world.
Hope that makes sense, because is a convoluted point that the industry is got to and I’m not sure how else to explain it.
Well that’s a bit cheeky. It’s true, but clearly only because of the pandemic:
Still bad timing asking for a pay rise!
So weirdly we’re in a position where unions are striking for ‘pay’ when they haven’t received an pay offer to reject but have balloted on this footing as it’s (probably) easier to explain to members with the well advertised cost of living crisis, when it’s actually about the shambles of a current government and the potential for future job losses and T&C changes which are vital to deliver a rail industry which is fit for the new post-pandemic world.
Strikes me as very bad timing, and have to say I have very little (none) sympathy for it. Unless rail use picks up quick, I would expect a large cull of rail workers to bring costs into line with revenues.....
This is the ideal time to lock in a pay rise that holds pace with inflation and good on them for doing it now before the shit actually hits the economic fan and employers cite the recession as a reason not to increase pay.
Why would a loss making industry want to agree to increase those losses? The rail industry is going to be slashing costs to balance the books unless something miraculous changes.
The rail network has just been run into the ground, at the same time as costs have spiralled, the government threw money at it to try and hide the problem, but that money was squandered as usual. i stopped travelling by train and bought a cheap commuter years ago, now using a bike, as the trains were getting too expensive and unreliable, there were no real bargains, no cheap day tickets that were of any real use or reduction and so on, i know many others that did the same, and then you had COVID.
As always though, the unions need to do their best for their members, but they do need to be wary of the landscape, the Scottish Government gave Scotrail 5% across the board i believe recently, which probably doesn't help this issue, but again, completely separate issues, but i doubt the press or public will see it that way, i see a lot of news stories about police, nurses, etc getting 2% and the press playing that off against the 5% scotrail got, it'll be even worse down here with the daily mail and the likes, as well as fighting in an industry that's subsidised so much at present.
Strikes me as very bad timing, and have to say I have very little (none) sympathy for it. Unless rail use picks up quick, I would expect a large cull of rail workers to bring costs into line with revenues…..
I think that’s wrapped up in the point I make. It’s been advertised within the membership, and therefore in the media, as ‘pay’ because it probably lands with the brothers understanding (due to the cost of living ‘crisis’ headlines) but I think it’s really about industry change (needed) and the useless pile of shite we have as a government (which I agree with).
Weird situation.
cost of my train fare is eyewatering
I expect that in the run up to privatization, the tories and their supportive press put out stories about how privatizing the railways would make them both more efficient and cheaper.
but I think it’s really about industry change (needed)
Yes, we've had conductor-less trains for decades, but other regions seems to be threatening strikes claiming passengers will die if they get rid of conductors.
useless pile of shite we have as a government (which I agree with).
Is that really within the remit of Unions? We have elections which are supposed to decide who is in power. I'm no fan of the Tories, but I'm also no fan of unions striking over political issues.
I expect that in the run up to privatization, the tories and their supportive press put out stories about how privatizing the railways would make them both more efficient and cheaper.
Unless more people start using them pronto, they're going to get a lot more expensive! Currently the tax payer is subsidising a much smaller group of commuters, who are probably above average earners.
I was thinking about heading to North Wales to see family next week until these strikes were announced, now I'm quite reluctant. Even though only three strike days have been announced (21/23/25) so far, the days in-between are expected to be busy... For a 6+ hour journey with road bike, no thanks, I'll look at early July before the next possible strikes are announced.
No issue with them striking, it's got the looks of a year of discontent, Royal Mail postie pay talks going badly too and might well strike for first time since '09. Managers already have strike ballot ready for their own issues.
Is that really within the remit of Unions? We have elections which are supposed to decide who is in power. I’m no fan of the Tories, but I’m also no fan of unions striking over political issues
Built-in isn’t it? Unions are a socialist construct so they naturally support a left-wing view point. A right-wing ruling party is fundamentally against their ethos isn’t it?
The fact that the current lot are populist and very openly dog-whistle blowing right-wingers makes their hackles rise even further than usual.
Even though only three strike days have been announced (21/23/25) so far, the days in-between are expected to be busy
I wouldn’t be too sure that the ‘non-strike’ days between them would run smoothly either - I believe they’re running 0200 -0159 on the days in question which means that if (signallers) book on at midnight for a shift then they won’t, meaning disrupted start-of-service. This means that trains setting off at 7am and running the length of the country won’t be turning up at midday in Brum etc.
Built-in isn’t it? Unions are a socialist construct so they naturally support a left-wing view point.
I thought they were supposed to champion their members rights in the context of work. Messing about in politics seems counter productive, just dilutes their focus on employee rights and they waste effort on something they can't change e.g. rails strikes are not going to bring UK PLC to its knees especially after we've just spent 2 years perfecting not commuting to work.......
It's just going to bring forward more legislation clamping down on unions with even less people objecting to the new legislation.
Try here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/rail-strikes-discussion-thread.232993/
For the full chin-stroker version
Word is, agency staff will be used to cover for strikers. Where's Arthur Scargill?
FWIW improving the railway (HS2, more electrification, upgraded rail, better signalling, new stock) is the only thing to get people using it. That costs money.
no-one else is getting wage inflation anywhere near cost inflation so why should they be any different?
Because they are willing to strike and it will cause real disruption.
Boris doesn't give a **** though, he can talk tough and appeal to his base
The other thing to bear in mind is that most of the railway network is basically a pension scheme that plays with a train set.
The cost of an across-the-board pay rise is basically negligible in comparison to their future liabilities.
Anyone else think that the Union leaders have more in common With the conservatives than they would like to admit?
Power hungry, only in it for their mates😂🤣
I thought they were supposed to champion their members rights in the context of work.
It is perfectly normal for campaigning organisations to get involved in politics and have political funds to further there aims. Including charities.
And you probably think that Sainsbury's is just there to provide families with their weekly groceries, but Sainsbury's profits are also used to finance political parties and organisations, to give just one example.
Indeed Ernie, these things are never isolated and it pays to follow the trail somewhat (as long as it doesn’t lead somewhere irrelevant like the non-existent basement of a pizza restaurant….)
The other thing to bear in mind is that most of the railway network is basically a pension scheme that plays with a train set.
Another one of those “modernisation” things that I feel the unions should be making a point about, but weirdly making their members poorer by striking hard and early in the longer-term period of the re-forming of the industry.
Like I say weird.
A few things to consider:
On the great western route usage is back to ~85% of pre covid levels
In the last 4 years Network Rail has been through reorganisation resulting in the loss of a significant number of employees and down sizing of the organisation
In the last 4 years recruitment freeze
In the last 4 years pay freeze
Subsequent to the reorganisation, voluntary severance scheme culled significant number of really good staff, they are both replaced and workload has fallen on the remaining
Throughout the pandemic trains ran, carrying carrying key workers. No furlough, just keep working. There was no recognition of this.
Threat of compulsory redundancies within the maintenance org, a group already under staffed and under funded.
I could go on. There are significant changes and improvements required to rail in the UK, but I'm really not surprised strike was voted.
I run a small business, the risk of loosing it all is never far from my mind. We worked all through the pandemic, lots of people did. None of us/them got any recognition for it. In most cases people don’t seek or need it. It was shit for everyone.
footflaps
Full MemberWithout a nationwide productivity increase all you’d achieve is increasing inflation until the pay rises were eroded.
Well thank goodness we've had a decade of wage stagnation accompanied by productivity increases, that'll keep inflation at bay.
Unless more people start using them pronto, they’re going to get a lot more expensive! Currently the tax payer is subsidising a much smaller group of commuters, who are probably above average earners.
With the exception of the covid issue, the chart above is showing in the region of 1.7 billion train journeys taken each year. I certainly dont remember tickets making sudden increased of prices post 2021, ergo they've always been expensive, and even if more than 1.7 billion journeys increased, the price would still increase year upon year.
This is the tory model remember, so prices only go up. It's wages and employee rights that go down.
Fair play to them.
As far as I can see it's mostly about changes to terms and conditions.
In other industries workers vote with their feet. Look at the labour shortage on the airlines and the fire/re hire.
In the small private sector companies I've worked at you quite often just leave or threaten to leave. It's not so easy to do that on the trains I imagine
Devils advocate here – no-one else is getting wage inflation anywhere near cost inflation so why should they be any different?
Because they're better organised and represented than the rest of us, so they're usually in a stronger negotiating position.
It's funny how when strikes are mentioned, the media will bring up the highly paid part workforce and Thier 'huge wages'. No mention of the lower paid staff or the even higher paid directors.
no-one else is getting wage inflation anywhere near cost inflation so why should they be any different?
Cos unlike many they’re in a union which means they can collectively inform those in government to foxtrot-oscar. 💪
Me - I’m off to an all-day razz at Headingley on 25th so have had to book a minibus at x2 cost.
Surely driverless trains must be technically easier to do than driverless cars?
Oh no, but if we introduce them the drivers will go on strike....
Devils advocate here – no-one else is getting wage inflation anywhere near cost inflation so why should they be any different?
Devils advocate here. Wages have stagnated for decades whilst simultaneously the cost of living has increased, housing prices have continued to rise, large corporations openly boast about making obscene profits, and the wealth divide continues to widen.
But we’ve all just sat here accepted that cost-of-living pay rises are a thing of the past.
If we had more unions pushing for pay-rises that matched inflation we wouldn’t be in a situation whereby someone can work five days a week, be stuck in private rental with no hope of being able to save a deposit to buy a starter home, and still have to rely on food banks and school dinners to ensure their family’s fed.
the cost to change the infrastructure and signalling to make driverless trains a reality isn’t cost effective. It is cheaper to pay the drivers
and as an ASLEF driver we aren’t actually on strike, even though the Daily Mail is banging on about how overpaid we are this is actually about RMT protecting their members jobs and employment rights. They are the platform staff and track workers who don’t earn anywhere near what the drivers do
I don't how how directly applicable this infographic is to the UK, but I can't find a UK equivalent and it's probably reasonably indicative. The numbers will differ, the thrust probably doesn't.
[img] 
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andrewh
Free MemberSurely driverless trains must be technically easier to do than driverless cars?
Oh no, but if we introduce them the drivers will go on strike….
Driverless trains would definitely increase the risk of accidents and loss of life, especially because of our stupidly fractured rail network but, is it acceptable for the cost savings? Unifying everything under a single provider and service would make it much easier. Actually modernising infrastructure instead of doing the bare minimum would do more. These aren't quite prerequisites but they're the difference between risk-taking and doing it right.
The other thing is, rail operators always, always, see "driverless trains" as a way of deskilling. The driver isn't just the driver, they're the person in charge when shit hits the fan (assuming they survive said fan). If well-implemented, safe driverless trains were always accompanied by a strictly matched level of skilled staffing, that'd be a positive. It puts more staff into face-to-face which is great. But, the operators don't want that. In the past we've literally seen operators say "we're removing train guards but we still have catering staff on the train so there's no loss of safety".
So, driverless trains done right? Absolutely, let's do it. But that's not what's on offer, and it never will be when cost is the priority. In the real world of 2022 tory privatised britain, driverless trains is code for having a subcontracted cleaner on minimum wage dealing with the inevitable crashes when 50, 60, 70 year old infrastructure that's been pushed too hard and had its safety checks reduced goes wrong.
If we had more unions pushing for pay-rises that matched inflation we wouldn’t be in a situation whereby someone can work five days a week, be stuck in private rental with no hope of being able to save a deposit to buy a starter home, and still have to rely on food banks and school dinners to ensure their family’s fed
This.
If people are outraged because the Scottish drivers got a 5% rise whilst nurses get 2%, stop and think about who deserves the outrage.
If people are outraged that one of the few remaining unions with power can get a fair deal for their workers whilst everyone else gets crap, stop and think about who deserves the outrage.
Sick and tired of the same old union bashing shite, if you're happy with crap conditions then batter on but quit trying to pull everyone else down with you.
Why would a loss making industry want to agree to increase those losses?
There's your mistake. It's not an industry it's a public service and profit should be nowhere in the financial planning. Without this service traffic and city centres would be inn an even worse condition than currently.
Mind you if the Torys go full trains on time and more services we will have entered a period of Facism.
My TOC has just posted profits of £70mil for the year up to March 2021 (so during the first wave of COVID when trains were empty) It also received £325mil from the government to run the trains in the same period. It made a loss of £3.5mil the previous year (When things were normal and it was being run as a franchise).
Have they not got the model wrong for trains these days? I occasionally get the train one or two stops away because it's convenient but the cost is ridiculous. e.g. to go from my local station in Leighton Buzzard to Milton Keynes central it costs £16.60. to drive my van park for 2 hours and drive home is roughly £10 a journey.
Why would I bother with the trains. The perhaps need to flip the model and reduce costs to encourage more passengers to replace car journeys for shorter drives which in turn would increase revenues and allow for a better pay packet for staff (and allow investment in automated trains which must surely be the answer although I'm sure the unions would also try and block that aka progress).
The perhaps need to flip the model and reduce costs to encourage more passengers to replace car journeys
The main issue is that in general there isn't the capacity to carry any more passengers when they want to travel i.e. at rush hour. So lowering fares wouldn't help that problem.
What we need is more capacity, but that needs major investment all round. We are trying, with HS2, but look at the resistance that's faced. We need a completely new backbone as well as loads of new regional routes, and HS2 is part of that. But can we really trust a UK government to deliver that in a competent manner?
but surely lowering off peak pricing would result in more usage. and weekends.
but surely lowering off peak pricing would result in more usage. and weekends
Well it would but track maintenance takes place in off-peak hours aka bus replacement service. It used to be that maintenance took place after hours but after Hatfield and contracting out repairs there has been a bit of mission creep such that most weekends the mainline services into/out of London don't run on rails.
How dare they go on strike and inconvenience me, don’t they know how important I am.
Also I’ve not had a pay rise because I’m not in a union and never bothered to be join one but I now begrudge others getting a pay rise though
Well thank goodness we’ve had a decade of wage stagnation accompanied by productivity increases, that’ll keep inflation at bay.
What productivity increase? UK PLC is in a productivity slump and has been for some time.
I can't believe that people still use trains, except like, Harry Potter enthusiasts. I saw on the news that it costs over £5k to travel between London and Brighton, and that if your train is late or cancelled you have to pay extra.
Sick and tired of the same old union bashing shite, if you’re happy with crap conditions then batter on but quit trying to pull everyone else down with you.
Are we allowed to question this one particular union action though? Just asking.
I'm far from anti-union, but this seems the worst possible time to expect a bumper pay rise when the the service you run is burning through cash at an almighty rate and a headcount reduction is the sensible strategy.
There’s your mistake. It’s not an industry it’s a public service and profit should be nowhere in the financial planning. Without this service traffic and city centres would be inn an even worse condition than currently.
Given train usage is at an all time low and we've just spent two years learning that we don't all need to commute everyday for the world to keep turning, it might be a good time to ask whether pouring billions into the rail system is the best use of tax payers money - esp if not many people seem interested in using it. We're basically subsidising the top 5% of earners so they can commute into the city at below real cost. You could spend the billions on housing the homeless for example.
Well, compare the UK to Germany. They spend much much more ($billions per year) on their network. They have driver-less trains. They also have conductor-less trains and double-decker trains.
We can't have double-decker trains without demolishing hundreds of victorian railway bridges.
We have basically 1 high speed line in the UK, compared to loads in France, Spain and Germany.
We still have manual signalling!
We have a fare system which requires a Phd to understand.
The money has to come from somewhere if we want good rail services eg less road spending or more taxation.
It's a miracle anybody gets anywhere, frankly.
What we need is more capacity, but that needs major investment all round. We are trying, with HS2, but look at the resistance that’s faced. We need a completely new backbone as well as loads of new regional routes, and HS2 is part of that. But can we really trust a UK government to deliver that in a competent manner?
The entire rail industry at all levels has faced massive cost-cutting, privitisation and splitting into different bodies controlling different aspects.
Similar to the NHS, it's kind of like a very dilapidated house. It just needs constant work on it to stop it falling down, you're forever plugging leaks here and cracks there but you're doing this while people are still living in the house and there's no money to do the job properly anyway. So i'ts constantly on a make-do-and-mend basis with a different builder in charge of each of the walls.
What really needs to be done is to build an entirely new house (HS2 / NPR) that can take at least some of the people out of the leaky house and then concentrate on rebuilding that properly. But it's going to require decades of very high funding to compensate for the decades of very low funding it's had so far. And no Government cares enough to do that.
footflaps
Full MemberWhat productivity increase? UK PLC is in a productivity slump and has been for some time.
Not the case- other than dring covid of course.
(usual disclaimers apply about how difficult it is to actually meaningfully measure productivity, meaning that we've instead gone for a measurement system that's easier to execute and use, but which doesn't actually really measure productivity. A useful enough metric, except when people confuse it with actual real world productivity)
Sick and tired of the same old union bashing shite, if you’re happy with crap conditions then batter on but quit trying to pull everyone else down with you.
I can’t believe that people still use trains, except like, Harry Potter enthusiasts. I saw on the news that it costs over £5k to travel between London and Brighton, and that if your train is late or cancelled you have to pay extra.
You would hope that one of the long term consequences of the pandemic is the belief that everyone must be in the office 9-5 seven days a week is killed off for good.
You would hope that one of the long term consequences of the pandemic is the belief that everyone must be in the office 9-5 seven days a week is killed off for good.
The leisure market has recovered far more than the commuter market (although that is still pretty strong, there's some regional variations in how quickly that has rebounded). Weekend usage is at least as high as pre-Covid, if not higher.
I don't blame them for striking really.. It's inconvenient for me as I rely on public transport.. I don't want the expenses of running a car and I can always get a taxi or hire a car or van if I need to.
The cost of living and brexit shit is gonna really hit the fan soon and I don't blame the workers for trying to do something about it.
Railways are a long game.
You have to build the track - more costly and slower than building a road.
You need operating companies and rolling stock - much harder to setup than just letting individuals loose with cars on a road.
You have to price it accordingly and try to predict demand - almost impossible and easier to just tax private fuel usage.
More public investment? In Scotland fares only cover a third of the cost of running the railway. Perhaps time for Beeching 2.
That's British government in a nutshell isn't it?
Loads of Europe has good rail transport links, because they planned and executed the long game properly for the benefit of the country. We ripped everything up for a quick few quid and some dodgy back handers; then sold it off, buggered it up and under-funded it into the ground in the name of "private enterprise". And everything ends up shit.
Disrupting commuters is one thing but disrupting kids who have worked hard for their exams and are dependent on trains to get to school and sit those exams, especially after all the disruption from the pandemic, is beyond belief.
The problem with striking is that, like international trade sanctions, it doesn't necessarily affect the people you want it to affect.
But then, the problem with not striking is what else can you do?
Its always a good plan to "think of the children".
Unfortunately by definition strikes are an inconvenience. Perhaps the government should have tried something other than their normal tactic of causing division?
That’s British government in a nutshell isn’t it?
Loads of Europe has good rail transport links, because they planned and executed the long game properly for the benefit of the country. We ripped everything up for a quick few quid and some dodgy back handers; then sold it off, buggered it up and under-funded it into the ground in the name of “private enterprise”. And everything ends up shit.
Came here to say this - 100% agree.
Public transport in Australia is cheap, clean, fast and convenient. The costs of journeys in central Sydney including bus, tram, train and ferries would blow your minds..... a 3 hr train ride from central Sydney to Newcastle? 3.50 gbp. The public transport system here is state owned and run - makes a difference that operating costs are not being squeezed for the purposes of making a profit.
Disrupting commuters is one thing but disrupting kids who have worked hard for their exams and are dependent on trains to get to school and sit those exams, especially after all the disruption from the pandemic, is beyond belief.
I think it goes further than this. One of the defences of striking on public transport is to say it's all right for everyone else in their entitled mega pay jobs with the option to change employers for better money. The term "commuter" has the connotation of / is often used like the only type of commuter is a stockbroker sitting in first class in stripey shirts and braces who can just hop in their Audi Q7 and cause congestion chaos on their way into the square mile (sorry for stereotype!).
The reality is rail commuters are also healthcare workers, minimum wage retail and call centre workers and cleaners, site workers, emergency services staff, and all sorts of others. Those are the commuters who will really feel the pain and who we as a society or they as individuals cannot afford to be unable to get to work.
Striking on the railways is not a way of achieving a positive outcome while only mildly inconveniencing the rich. Not everyone has the choice to join a union and find a better employer or to take the car for a day through circumstances or personal choice.
Not everyone has the choice to join a union
Er, I'll just stop you there. Everyone has that choice, it's enshrined in law.
They can also pester their MP/MSP/MWP to try to get the striking matter resolved before it adversely impacts them. That costs nothing and is exactly the pressure the government needs to do it's bit.
People aren't powerless, just apothetic.
In the last 24 hours Royal Mail have attempted to bypass the CWU stalled negotiations regarding a "no strings" pay rise deal from April, by executive action they plan to force a 2% pay increase from next month. Let's just say it has not gone down well after a massive increase in online shopping since the pandemic started, how Covid safety was dealt with so poorly and then the CEO moans about sickness, how share dividends have been paid etc.
Balloting for industrial action is incoming very soon, as it was before yesterday's announcement.
Disrupting commuters is one thing but disrupting kids who have worked hard for their exams and are dependent on trains to get to school and sit those exams, especially after all the disruption from the pandemic, is beyond belief.
Whilst pupils undoubtedly take all forums of transport to attend school including trains, especially those attending fee paying schools, I would be interested in knowing just how many actually rely on trains, and how many of those are completely unable to make alternative arrangements.
Also irrespective of the planned industrial action how many pupils would miss their exams if there was overrun engineering works or any other incident which might close the line, as regularly happens.
Relying on one sole method of attending a place of education has its obvious limitations, especially in the case of trains, and for that obvious reason it should be carefully assessed before decisions are made.
I wouldn't deny the possibility that the planned industrial action might affect a few individuals, but I can't see it as a general across the board problem for large numbers of school pupils, which appears to be the suggestion.
I suspect that the primary reason for throwing that suggestion into the argument is whip up a "won't someone think of the children" emotive response.
I heard on the radio this morning that the Japanese have done rail strikes but differently - they carried on working, but let all the passengers travel for free. Doesn't inconvenience the public, but costs the companies and got their attention pretty quickly! Food for thought for the unions here...
Striking on the railways is not a way of achieving a positive outcome while only mildly inconveniencing the rich.
Well having just the option of industrial action is certainly a very effective way of achieving positive results.
I believe that the planned strike will be the first national rail strike this century. The reason rail workers are not among the lowest paid workers is precisely because taking industrial action remains an option - even if they do not take it.
Food for thought for the unions here…
I think the trade unions would be taken to court very quickly if they tried that in the UK.
I work in public transport and I do my upmost to make sure people get to their destinations daily, people travel for a variety of reasons that are intrinsic to their lives, so to disrupt that is not something I would take pleasure in nor would many of the people I work with, it’s the last thing we want to do.
However it is the only thing you can do when you aren’t valued and have your own life infringed on, because without the people who work in public transport there would be no service at all. The impact of the disruption needs to levelled at the companies and the government for treating their workforce with such contempt that they are left with no choice but to stop work.
Edit: There is this view that private companies always have people’s best interests at heart. They do not, I speak from experience that priority is money, if putting peoples health and well being at risk will save them money they will, it is often the power of law and threat of litigation that ensures that is the not case; if that wasn’t true then we wouldn’t need the DVSA and MoTs for commercial vehicles as an example.
TBF the whole "strike but don't inconvenience anyone" is just a different riff on the "protest but don't do it where we can see you", it's a cunning bit of political operations that diminishes the effectiveness of striking. Strikes have to be inconvenient or they don't work.
The idea that it's to inconvenience only the rich or the government is nonsense too. That doesn't work, just isn't practical.
molgrips
Full MemberThat’s British government in a nutshell isn’t it?
Loads of Europe has good rail transport links, because they planned and executed the long game properly for the benefit of the country. We ripped everything up for a quick few quid and some dodgy back handers; then sold it off, buggered it up and under-funded it into the ground in the name of “private enterprise”. And everything ends up shit.
And the incredible irony that so much of our "private" railways are actually run by other countries' nationalised railways, and that the profits they take here help fund the services there. We're told over and over that the private sector is more efficient, better, more pure but they're also effectively saying "you can't trust the UK government to run trains, we're terrible, but you can totally trust the Italian government, they're much better than us"
Food for thought for the unions here…
I have seen that one before (thought it was US though) but from what I recall it could allow the staff to be summarily dismissed and the union possibly sued into oblivion if they were on record supporting it.
I get why they are striking, cost of living etc. it might get them a better deal short term but won't help anyone else. The unions are acting in their members interests which is what they are supposed to do.
We've got much bigger issues though and increasing pay across the board isn't the answer. We need the government to reduce the cost of living fundamentally, it's possible e.g. control credit much more tightly for mortgages, actually build more houses, sort out corporate tax issues, do their jobs and manage the private companies they've subbed everything out to effectively. Won't happen though and especially not with this government.