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I wish to petition NASA to take him/her into space and film the realisation of his/her stupidity.
Easy to stage with flight sims these days. So be careful who you're calling 'stupid' as when you point at someone there's a small problem you're overlooking. Want a clue? Well, observe your hand when you point. What do you see? Yep. There are [s]five[/s] three fingers pointng back at [guess-who?]
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Clearly, these folk are nutters. The Earth is not flat.
It's slightly convex like one of those mini roundabouts.
Err, it's Coriolis [b]Effect[/b] not force. 😀
The straight down the plug hole on the equator is bunkum, sorry. Also bunkum is the "stand this side of the equator and the water drains clockwise, stand the other side and it drains counter-clockwise." The guy demonstrating this turns one way or the other to impart an initial spin to the water before pulling the plug out.
How do they explain Coriolis force and differences between hemispheres? And the fact that water goes straight down the plughole only on the equator?
Well that's not [i]entirely[/i] true.
Most sinks, baths and bogs are waaaay to small to be influenced by the Coriolis effect over other influences:
But yeah, they usually deny it happens at all.
as when you point at someone there's [s]five[/s] [s]three [/s] six fingers, on the same hand, pointing at [guess-who?]
I’ll take that...
What about the Moon?
Is it flat too?
I only ask because i've actually seen it and looks kinda round to me.
I might be wrong though.
Is there a head flat earther? Like the pope, for these folk?
I wish to petition NASA to take him/her into space and film the realisation of his/her stupidity.
It wouldn't work sadly. From my observations they spend a good portion of their time accusing each other of being government shills or plants, put there by the man to discredit the truth.
I suspect that for many of the true believers you could take them into space, show them the world, and they'd still deny it.
Damn Gummermint...
What about the Moon?
Spherical, but very close (e.g. [url= https://wiki.tfes.org/Moon ]32 miles wide, 3000 miles above the surface[/url]).
Though some believe it is hollow (David Icke stylee) and may be a projector. Others will tell you it is a hologram (because [url= https://wiki.tfes.org/Moon_Transparency ]it is transparent[/url])
Some people are so stupid that showing them proof is still beyond their comprehension, so they feel happier sticking to their original daft beliefs.
Lucky for them sex is pretty straight forward, otherwise they would have been extinct by now.
What about the Moon?Is it flat too?
Yes. We can see the front.
and these people can vote
But not for people that will take any notice of them. Except in a referendum!
and these people can vote
Which reinforces my view that there should be compulsory IQ testing for everyone who wishes to vote. The higher your IQ, the more votes you get.
If that was in place we would not be leaving Europe, Trump would not be President and the Scottish independence referendum would have been a much more decisive No.
I recommend "Orphan Red"I lasted maybe 30 seconds before her voice made me want to kill kittens
Crack on then
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I'm grateful to GrahamS for his knowledge of this subject. 😀
You're very welcome BD.
Chatting to these folk was a bit of a personal hobby for me for a while.
I found them absolutely fascinating.
And as I say, it can [i]sometimes[/i] be an interesting learning experience, like when you have to really think about something while trying to explain it to an inquisitive child. 😆
[quote=GrahamS ]I recommend "Orphan Red" as she is one that can actually pose questions that might make you scratch your head for a bit. (Ignore her annoying unique "ditzy" presenting style - she's not nearly as dim as she pretends).
Sorry - I'm finding it utterly impossible to ignore that.
[quote=GrahamS ]Their explanation for night and day is interesting* too.
Usually something along the lines of the Sun being much, much closer than science states, actually inside the "dome" just above the clouds, as "proven" by pictures like this:
It moves in large circles above the disc and, for some unfathomable reason, is very directional like a desk lamp.
* (i.e. completely barking)
What exactly is their explanation for sunrise and sunset? I'm struggling to see how even directionality of the sun can explain it disappearing below a non-existent horizon.
actually a quick google found me this:
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun
please tell me that their explanation for sunset is "everything appears lower and eventually drops below the horizon the further it is" 😆
perchypanther - MemberWhat about the Moon?
Is it flat too?
I only ask because i've actually seen it and looks kinda round to me.
I might be wrong though.
Its both. flat means its only one dimensional. round is to describe its shape in that one dimension ie a circle. Spherical is what it is not. Honestly perchy. Tsk tsk
[i]Summary
As the sun descends it will create a tangent into the horizon. The perspective lines nearly merge, causing the receding body to appear to collapse in on itself. Next the light of the receding sun is dimmed to blackness by a non-transparent atmosphere.[/i]
See. Obv innit.
The arguments presented by flat earthers remind me of the increasing problem people had with the Earth-centric view of the universe. They could build mechanical models of the planets of the solar system that replicated the observations but as bodies like the moons of Jupiter were discovered/added it became increasingly difficult to describe their orbits around the Earth. Moving to a helio-centric model sorted things out.
Want to ride the ice rim. Bah, reality.
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From my observations they spend a good portion of their time accusing each other of being government shills or plants, put there by the man to discredit the truth.
I've got to ask, even if the spherical Earth 'model' were a giant conspiracy to hide the truth,
Why?
What would the governments, "they" or indeed anyone hope to gain by lying to the world about its true nature? What massive problem are we trying to cover up? What's the point?
For the oil, obviously!
oh sorry, wrong conspiracy, brb
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy explains all.
I'm using the word "explains" as loosely as Flat Earther use "proof", obviously.
Well, from aracer's link to craziness -
"There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort.
There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space."
That website is like the "official" FES Wiki and yet just reads like the ramblings of a single blithering idiot. Very puzzling.
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Full_Moon_is_Impossible_in_Round_Earth_Theory
I mean, that's awesome. Probably worth using as an example of a strawman argument.
Trumping myself with https://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset. Amazing work people.
please tell me that their explanation for sunset is "everything appears lower and eventually drops below the horizon the further it is"
Yep - they regular cite [i]"perspective"[/i] (often in quite bizarre terms) along with the idea that the apparent perspective horizon always appears straight ahead, so it must come up to your eye level.
Why?
Depends who you ask: the Biblical types mumble on about a satanic Freemason plot to undermine the word of God. I mean look, Malvern Rider's diagram clearly has a triangle with a sun at the top. A very clear reference to the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence ]Eye of Providence[/url], a masonic symbol. etc etc
The more general conspiracy nut types tend to say something about Sheeple being kept in the dark by scientific fraud. A lie that grew and grew and must be protected by the establishment. And of course stealing public money for funding for NASA, space flight, satellites none of which really exists obviously.
That website is like the "official" FES Wiki and yet just reads like the ramblings of a single blithering idiot. Very puzzling.
It should be noted that many veteran flatties will claim that the Flat Earth Society is a shill, set up to discredit people telling the [i]real[/i] truth.
The Shadow Object sounds like a baddie from a 60s issue of Superman.
A lie that grew and grew and must be protected by the establishment.
I suppose that explains why the 'lie' persists today, but not really why it started in the first place.
That wiki site is genuinely genius, think of the heroic efforts you'd need to go through to try to invent reasons for why perfectly normal (in a globe world model) things occur and you need to explain away. Fascinating.
I suppose that explains why the 'lie' persists today, but not really why it started in the first place.
Apparently they got it wrong at the start and by the time they realised there was already too much built on top of it.
You know, in much the same way that all medicine is still based balancing the four bodily humors or the way we still accept that only materials rich in phlogiston will burn. 😆
[quote=nickc ]Fascinating.
Told you. Before you know it you will be watching two hour YouTube videos in slack-jawed wonderment.
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Why would governments not want you to know the earth is round?
And why wouldn't a flat earth disc collapse into a sphere?
And why wouldn't a flat earth disc collapse into a sphere?
Because flatter is awesomer, while 'sphere' is, er, evil-er?
And why wouldn't a flat earth disc collapse into a sphere?
Don't try and apply reason or logic to anything they claim. Gravity is "just a theory" and doesn't exist either - things fall due to "density and buoyancy" apparently. No further explanation required, just "density and buoyancy". So the disc collapsing into a sphere is just nonsense and you must either be a retard or a shill.
Told you. Before you know it you will be watching two hour YouTube videos in slack-jawed wonderment.
I can't get over the sun as laser beam fallacy, which is the fundamentals of their problems. It kind a makes me want to vomit, so no, I refuse to watch any further and retract my intention to join them.
I've wasted hours of my life trying to reason and discuss their explanations with them but in a similar way to the WTC conspiracy stuff on the other thread, it's ultimately pointless. They've made their mind up and desperately grasp at anything to make their model work and if they can't the subject gets changed or they resort to ad hominem waffle. Neither are you starting from the same point with what is generally regarded as logic, reason or what can be accepted as 'evidence' or 'empirical'.
I think the best one I saw was to 'prove' that the earth was flat, a guy poured a jug of water over a basket ball and demonstrated that the water doesn't stick to it like the shills say the oceans stick to the globe.
did you see this?
https://www.indy100.com/article/flat-earth-conspiracy-theorist-spirit-level-plane-prove-curvature-7746121
did you see this?
Oh, don't. I've got work to do...must resist...must resist...
There's a meme that gets posted up making some nonsense point about the sun or something but it's taken at relatively high altitude with the plane's wing in the foreground and the curvature of the horizon clearly visible. That bit gets totally ignore in this photo though as it's 'proving' the nonsense about the sun so the horizon is now apparently irrelevant. Like I said, until you can level with them about what is logic and reason (and you can't), you won't get anywhere.
From Facebook just now,
http://wspa.com/2017/11/09/flat-earthers-from-around-the-world-descend-upon-nc-for-convention/
a guy poured a jug of water over a basket ball and demonstrated that the water doesn't stick to it like the shills say the oceans stick to the globe.
I'd love to have witnessed his prior 'Eureka!' moment that inspired the basketball demonstration.
(Bathtub, NC)
'Marybeth! This darn water's gitin chilly. Pass me a hot jug, y'hear?'
'Git y'own darn jug, ya fat lard'
'Awwwww, don' be like that. N'after I done fixedya porch up geeewd yesday?'
'I guess...'
'Well. Guessin's over now howabout that jug o'hot WATER?
(Marybeth sighs)
'Right theyn, If I give you the juuug, then can I getsum peace?
'Yip'
'Promise?'
'Well okaythen'
(Hands jug)
(Sounds of splashing and loud sighs of deep contentment)
'Wait, WHUHT?' (Single splash)
'Oh hell Jacob, NOW what? I was WATCHIN' QueueVeeCeeeee-uh! Dayyyng!'
'You aint guna believe this Marybeth'
'You better HOPE I do'. (Silence.........)
(Longer silence)
(Finally) ... ' Believe whut?'
'OKay pinback you ears like you mean it Mar'beth,
'
(Bored sighs) 'um...keh?'
'Lookit. I just done poured that water over my gut. Mkeh?
(Now curious) 'mm,keh?'
'And, although my gut aint *perfectly* round, it's fair stickin up out of this tub like a hill or a DOME, or somethin'. Giddit?'
'Uuuuh?? 🙄 '. 'And?'
'And so it's not, like, uh, UNlike, sorta, uh (hear me out here)... like a[b] small 'planet' (if there was such things, and there AIN'T)[/b]
'Jacob Marley this better had be GEWD'
'This ain't just GEWD, Embeth Marley! This here is EXPLOSIVE. Lookit...'
(Pours jug of water over his rotund protruding belly, hand shaking with excitement')
(Voice breaks high)'Seethat!!!!??'
'See WHUT? Jacob? I see a fat old fool in a tub playing witha jug'.
'OK just imagine that the belly is a GLOBE, know, like whatthem NASAI/LLUMINATI f***s would have us believe?
'Mkeh?'
'And imagine the water is, uh, water?'
'Mkeh?'
'So if the Earth was a ... 'GLOBE' (aind it AINT, calm down Marybeth, I'm jes cogitatin'...)'
'You're sick, Jacob'
'Nu-uh, hear me out, what I'm saying is IF it WAS (and it AIN'T!) a 'GLOBE', then look what happens when you pour SEA over a GLOBE!!...'
(Again pours water over belly. Water runs off)
Whut? Jacob? I may not be the perkiest possum in the pack, BUT - I **KNOW** that water ain't oceans. It's a jug of water, ya retaaard! (Laughs)
'But think for a minute, M'beth? Oceans is made from whut?'
(Fakes stupidity) 'Uhhh, waaaater? Duh-uh.'
(Thinks)
'Yip! And if the Lizardoids is (and they ain't) CORRECT about the Earth being a 'GLOBE' ( and it ain't) - then look what happens if'n ya try pouring WATER (like raw Oceans, giddit?) on a 'GLOBE' (it's really jes' mah belly still)'!! 'Lookit!!!'
(Again pours water over belly)
'Jacob!! It don't stick!'
BAM! 'What I THOUGHT!. (Thinks NASA) Oooooh, those DIRTY, LYIN, CHEATIN MOTHER*****!
'Dayum'
'Yip'
'We gotta, like, get this OUT there Jacob?? Holy shit, darlin', I'm sorry I was mad at yewww.... xxx I'm so PROUD of yewwww!! 😀 😀 xxx'
'Really weren't nothin, I was jes' chasing navel hair an and then I gots to cogitatin'! (shakes head). Whew.
'Whew'
(Gaze at each other)
(In unison) - 'This changes ... EVERthang, and everythang!'
You sir, have won my internet for today.
Yeah they like the wet ball thing. Seen loads of variations of this:
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Which demonstrates a fairly fundamental misunderstanding of what gravity is and how relative motion works.
Also smoke:
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Clearly this person has never tried jumping up and down in a moving train/plane.
🙄
tjagain - Member
did you see this?
I watched the video. Felt sad for him. You can't argue with that much stupid.
Thing is, I suppose, apart from going around embarrassing yourself in such a way, there's nothing in life to lose from such belief. Life must be pretty easy being so dense really.
The website that aracer linked to is brilliant.
This is my favorite bit
As a passenger on an aircraft, how is it I can see the curvature of the earth?
Quite simply you cannot. It is widely stated you would need to be at a height of at least 40,000 ft to get even a hint of curvature if earth were round.
But elsewhere on the site it states you can prove it is flat by holding a straight edge up to horizon.
...there's nothing in life to lose from such belief.
I think I'd disagree with that. Some people can be quite easily influenced, especially by easily accessible 'evidence' and 'proof'. The more people spouting this nonsense, the more people that will come across it and be perhaps persuaded by it etc. The conference that kicked this thread off costs money to travel to and attend. So, as with a lot of these cults, you'll have cynical liars taking advantage their 'flock' and raking in the money of the gullible.
Where does that stop? Arguably comparable with the 'climate change deniers' who influence certain politicians. < winces - I'm sure there's a whole other thread to shout that one out >
This is my favorite bit
As a passenger on an aircraft, how is it I can see the curvature of the earth?
Quite simply you cannot. It is widely stated you would need to be at a height of at least 40,000 ft to get even a hint of curvature if earth were round.But elsewhere on the site it states you can prove it is flat by holding a straight edge up to horizon.
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I heard that the flat earth society has members all across the globe!
Gah my YouTube feed is full of flat earth stuff again now.
Ah well.
This guy does some amusing debunks, but I like this video purely for the conspiracy guy spraying vinegar about to dissolve the chemtrails:
😯
Edit : Got the wrong end of the stick! 🙄
Clearly this person has never tried jumping up and down in a moving train/plane.
what about 'on', which would be a better comparison
IdleJohn: that was my point. (Edit: ok)
what about 'on', which would be a better comparison
No, that would a much [i]worse[/i] comparison because if you are on top of a moving train you are rushing through air that it stationary relative to your motion.
Anyway, quite a lot of common FE'er "logic" and claims in this video, including most of the ones I've mentioned already.
Provided here, not for the debunks (which are fairly superficial) but more so you can enjoy their "logic" without having to sit through two hour Eric Dubay or jeranism marathons and completely losing your marbles. 😀
Yeah but why doesn't that happen when you are on the surface of the world?No, that would a much worse comparison because if you are on top of a moving train you are rushing through air that it stationary relative to your motion.
Yeah but why doesn't that happen when you are on the surface of the world?
The same reason it doesn't happen inside the moving train - all the air is moving along with you.
The same reason it doesn't happen inside the moving train - all the air is moving along with you.
Yeah but how come it moves with you on the world but not on a train?
The same reason that it is much harder to stir your cup of tea with a needle than a spoon!
The air in the atmosphere is moving along with the Earth as it spins. So for us, standing on a spinning Earth, that air is still, even though the surface of the Earth is moving at ~1000 mph (depending where you are).
The train is pushing through that still air. It's the needle, only a few billion times smaller, it's not big enough to get all the air on Earth to start moving along with it! It can only shove against a minuscule part of it, which can just get out of the way.
Interesting observation on how the likes of Fb encourages this sort of madness:
https://boingboing.net/2017/11/15/filter-bubbles-r-us.html
Before you know it
must...stop...watching...
Graham, I appreciate Poe's Law is in effect here but I believe CM is employing a debating technique known as [s]trolling[/s] devil's advocate. He knows as well as you do, he's positing the flat Earthers' position.
So why do none of the flat earthers just rent/borrow/buy a boat or plane, fly to the 'ice rim', get some photos and then show the sheeple the error of their spherical ways?
I mean, I know why, but how do they explain not actually having any real proof of the earth being flat?
Because the earth's rim/wall of ice is protected by the UN and your boat will be sunk - jeez it's so simple. 🙄
Where exactly is this in a flat Earth model?
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Graham, I appreciate Poe's Law is in effect here...
You're probably right Cougar, but it's very hard to tell with conspiracy types, and even if he is just on a wind up, I guarantee someone else out there will be reading it thinking "That's a very good point actually"
Where exactly is this in a flat Earth model?
North pole? In the middle of course, do pay attention. 🙂
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That's the South pole isn't it? The north isn't solid enough to build something like that if I'm not mistaken? So on your map it's in the ice wall. Your map is upside down obviously.
[i]So why do none of the flat earthers just rent/borrow/buy a boat or plane, fly to the 'ice rim', get some photos[/i]
Also, I'd imagine, cos photos aren't* evidence... cos you know cameras, lenses, distortion, etc.
[sorry, typo edited!]
Ah right enough, it's from [url= http://hors-frontieres.fr/2014/05/ ]this page[/url] I read the wrong caption, the pic [i]below[/i] it is North Pole.
Well if it is south then it must be somewhere on the ice wall where no one is allowed to go apart from Freemason sciencfraudists and the special ops military guys that keep the secret.
Obviously there isn't actually an actual South Pole since we've already learned that compasses don't really point north. 😆
The air in the atmosphere is moving along with the Earth as it spins. So for us, standing on a spinning Earth, that air is still, even though the surface of the Earth is moving at ~1000 mph (depending where you are).The train is pushing through that still air. It's the needle, only a few billion times smaller, it's not big enough to get all the air on Earth to start moving along with it! It can only shove against a minuscule part of it, which can just get out of the way.
So how come the air above the earth moves at the same speed as the earth but the air above the train does not move at the same speed as the train?
Graham, I appreciate Poe's Law is in effect here but I believe CM is employing a debating technique known as [trolling] devil's advocate. He knows as well as you do, he's positing the flat Earthers' position.
I'm not positing any position regarding the shape of the Earth.
So how come the air above the earth moves at the same speed as the earth but the air above the train does not move at the same speed as the train?
Wait, shouldn't you first be asking why the air 'above' Earth doesn't float off into space?
Wait, shouldn't you first be asking why the air 'above' Earth doesn't float off into space?
No, I imagine you know the answer to that. But it doesn't help answer the question I was asking
But it doesn't help answer the question I was asking
Well, it really does. Newtonian mechanics.
So how come the air above the earth moves at the same speed as the earth but the air above the train does not move at the same speed as the train?
A few mistaken assumptions in your question.
The atmosphere is not all moving at the same speed as the Earth.
Air is not just 'above' the train. The train travels through air. It also drags some of the (closest) air along with it. So some of the air around the train will be also moving at near the same speed as the train.
So the air above the train does move with the train?
These threads are starting to remind me of the engineers mug in the secret santa thread
So the air above the train does move with the train?
Gah. Trolled.
No, not at all. Just want you to explain it. How come you can stand on a train and feel wind but not feel the same when you stand on the earth
The atmosphere is not all moving at the same speed as the Earth
So a bit higher its slower? The same as the train.?