Thermostatic mixer ...
 

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Thermostatic mixer showers - 'king useless

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 StuF
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Fitted a new shower a couple of years ago. A few months ago the valve failed so I replaced just the valve (kindly sent to me as a gesture of goodwill),  now the valve has gone again - FFS.

Am I just unlucky, a rubbish plumber - probably or are the thermostatic valve things just a bit useless?

I'm loathed to replace just the valve again at about £100 a go.


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 2:48 pm
 5lab
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some valves are rubbish, some work forever. I don't think you could plumb one in badly. Maybe swap the shower for a better brand which might last longer?


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 2:53 pm
leffeboy and leffeboy reacted
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I fitted ours about 16 years ago and it's still working absolutely fine with no tinkering needed at all so I'd guess from personal experience that you've been unlucky.


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:00 pm
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Just get the best Mira shower you can afford. Job done for many years.


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:02 pm
 StuF
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It was a Hudson Reed Topaz, replacement now is £175 so I wouldn't class that as bargain basement. Maybe it was just bad luck.


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:03 pm
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Mira FTW!
So good I bought a second when we had a wet room built.


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:04 pm
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Unlucky perhaps or cheap shite perhaps?

I have one - I paid £350 for it 10 years ago.  Its been faultless


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:06 pm
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What is going wrong with it?


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:07 pm
peesbee and peesbee reacted
 StuF
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What is going wrong with it?

Turn the handle and no water comes out - it's as though the handle shaft has parted company with the bits inside that actually control the water flow.

Edit - and getting the valve body apart to see if anything has failed is difficult without breaking something


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:11 pm
 5lab
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£100 here https://www.divapor.com/spares/showers/thermostatic-cartridge/hudson-reed-topaz-thermostatic-cartridge-c8829.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4tCQh-z4gwMVLYpQBh0V-w0MEAQYAyABEgK01PD_BwE

its a stupid design as the overall flow is in the same thing as the thermostatic bit - most showers have a separate overall valve to the one doing the temperature


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:24 pm
StuF and StuF reacted
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Agreed that some valves seem properly useless.
As with all plumbing as well, there are a bazillion sizes and standards...


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:29 pm
 StuF
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Cheers @5lab.

I was trying to work out either replace the valve and it go again in 3 months or to try a different body, such as  https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/orion-dual-exposed-thermostatic-shower-valve-chrome but I'm guessing that has a similar design of valve or try a bar design https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/cruze-slimline-round-top-outlet-thermostatic-bar-valve-chrome and have the headache of different mounting brackets which will probably be a PITA to fit as the pipes just stick out of the wall and the existing nuts are held captive by olives on the copper pipe


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:33 pm
 5lab
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you can filter the mira site to the pipe-centre-width (which is 150mm for your old shower I think)

https://www.mirashowers.co.uk/p/showers/shop-mixer-showers?q=Pipe_Centres=150%20mm

lots of choice but not in the same oldy-worldy-style as your current shower


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:41 pm
StuF and StuF reacted
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I normally pay £120 for a Grohe with a nice head, rail and quality hose included. Never had an issue for many many years.

Actually seems to have gone up a little but didn't shop around.

https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/grohe-precision-flow-thermostatic-mixer-shower-3221-1272305?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqsitBhDlARIsAGMR1RhaKtE6sR1lmtWiGfabdt3sg6h-zhMhU3xHlSDLTYfFB-picHqo4zwaAoI0EALw_wcB


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 3:55 pm
leffeboy, StuF, leffeboy and 1 people reacted
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Grohe, Hansgrohe or Bristan for me, Pegler if I find a proper bargain.


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 4:01 pm
StuF and StuF reacted
 StuF
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Cheers - now to work out if I can get the old olives off easily without losing the pipes into the wall...


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 4:10 pm
 5lab
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whilst not good practice, you should be able to re-use an olive for something like this. I bet its what a plumber would do if you paid them to fix it


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 4:32 pm
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i "broke" out thermatic valve trying to change the tempture of the water.  What i had done is twisted the temperture dial so much it was unscrewed from the rest of the body.   A new wax thermostat for about £20 and a bit of lube to push the temp dial all the way back in its housing fixed the issue.   


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 4:42 pm
 StuF
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@5lab - reusing the olive isnt the problem - it's getting the old olive off without cutting the pipe as there's little pipe exposed from the wall and I can't get to the joint behind as it's buried in the wall.  I just need to get the old nut off the pipe to allow me use what ever fittings come with a new shower - guaranteed to be different.

hopefully some molgrips (not of this forum) and gentle persuasion will sort it


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 4:50 pm
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Ours is a pain the f****** arse.

They scale up in no time, which is fine at first, it just stops the dial from turning in the direction the controller want's to move, no biggie as no one ever adjusts it. Then a few more months pass and the controller part is fowled up and it's basically stuck in position ratioing the hot and cold feeds.

Valve out, circlip off, soak in descaler for a few hour, re-assemble......

Trouble is it gets worse each time. My hunch is either the limescale or the descaler is eating the brass/bronze and making it rough inside.

IIRC they're both Grohe kits in our house.

If doing it again I'd go with:

its a stupid design as the overall flow is in the same thing as the thermostatic bit – most showers have a separate overall valve to the one doing the temperature" which may be

At least then the valve gets exercised each time it's used.

That or we'll have to get a softener.


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 5:03 pm
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reusing the olive isnt the problem – it’s getting the old olive off without cutting the pipe as there’s little pipe exposed from the wall and I can’t get to the joint behind as it’s buried in the wall.  

There are tools for that: https://www.toolstation.com/monument-olive-puller/p36156 Admittedly expensive for a single use.

Fairly easy to cut them off if you can't wiggle them off with a pair of pliers though.


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 5:26 pm
drew and drew reacted
 5lab
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I just need to get the old nut off the pipe to allow me use what ever fittings come with a new shower – guaranteed to be different.

I would expect them both just to be normal 3/4" BSP screw fittings - most things that take 15mm pipe are


 
Posted : 25/01/2024 5:32 pm
 StuF
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Argh I hate plumbing, why is nothing ever straight forward. New valve arrived and it's got a 15mm outlet and the existing riser pipe is 18mm.


 
Posted : 31/01/2024 8:22 pm
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Couldn't you just get use a normal mixer?


 
Posted : 01/02/2024 3:28 am
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Not that it helps specifically but I have a Hudson Reed with that same looking valve also on which the thermostat failed after about a year and a new one sent under warranty, second one is over 10 years old now so maybe try another one…?


 
Posted : 01/02/2024 6:08 am
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In true STW tradition of recommending what you've got yourself...

I've fitted Hansgrohe mixer bars in both of our showers - 3 years apart.  Seem well made (e.g. actual metal 'tap tops', rather than chromed plastic).  No problems with either, which are both in daily use.

I went for Hansgrohe as I'd seen them in quite a few european hotels. My logic being that as big hotel chains will buy them by the hundred - and presumably not want to swap them out for a good few years, nor want constant maintenance,   that they should be reliable.

So far, they have been and I'd recommend.

We live in a fairly hard water area too.


 
Posted : 01/02/2024 6:35 am
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Hello,

getting the olive off can bit tricky but doable.
Gently heat the pipe and olive ,hair dryer is fine, gently rotate olive with mole grips or pliers and wiggle it upwards.
if that doesn’t work use a junior hacksaw blade and carefully cut the olive enough to get a thin bladed flat screwdriver in the cut and gently twist it. The olive should split in two.
Try to avoid damaging the copper pipe as the new olive may not seal correctly.
hope that helps.


 
Posted : 01/02/2024 6:37 am
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or we’ll have to get a softener.

Best thing we ever did for our water supply.


 
Posted : 01/02/2024 7:15 am
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Wish I'd spotted that grohe unit last year. It's only slightly more than the cartridge for the Mira we have (which is now whistling at 6 months old on all but one temperature)!


 
Posted : 01/02/2024 7:50 am
 StuF
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Thanks all.

I'd not even thought of checking the outlet sizes - assumed they'd be standard shower fittings.

New valve is a Bristan one that looks similar. Ordered a bit of chromed pipe and a 18->15mm reducer so I can use the existing riser + rain head.

I'll just have to put up with a daughter with thundercloud over her head as she can't have a shower yet 🙂


 
Posted : 01/02/2024 8:33 am

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