[Closed] Them new 'Minis', the fat ones

That looks like a truck where someone has nicked the proper wheels and they've had to use little ones off a normal car.

And you were saying other people have no sense of aesthetics? 😆

But I'm keeping the Countryman and allowing the breadknife the privilege of driving it

Nothing more to be said is there? I rest my case.

Er actually no, it's not at all 'cute'

It is.

Don't start with me sunshine. 😉

Jeez, ain't it funny that people like different cars an dat.

Even Effin's getting a sandy fanny about it now... 🙄

I'm not, I just happen to be right about automobile aesthetics, is all. 🙂

You know I am too though really. Deep down.

There are several well known facts in this world. One of these us that only 2 nations on earth can reliably produce stylish, iconic cars.

The British
The Italians

Sure, everyone else gets a look in now and again (Ford GT40, Citroën DS, Mk 1 Golf)
But nobody else gets even close. Alec Issigonis must be turning in his grave.

No mahoosive generalisations in PP's contribution.

G.R.F., what an asset to the forum you are, what sparkling insights you provide; its such a shame you're married already.

now lay down and say it with me..

Hear me now kiss me teef bogle bogle when I say rice you say 'an pea'...

Come on now an sing it wit me, Rice:

Fiat is for girl people and I'm not a girl, even though secretly I want to be one, I'm not, I'm actually a man person...

We can see that you're a man because you are waiting for the epitome of manliness-on-the-road that is that VW.

When women started using 4x4s for the school run, the manly men had to go and find something even more manly and came up with the double cab pick up.

Useless for anything other than looking manly! You can put bags of cement in the back, but for actually carrying bikes, surfboards, anything worth carrying, you may as well drive Elfin's Fiat.

Having worked at MINI for three years, I can say that the average MINI buyer doesn't really inhabit the STW world where;

1.You are some kind of idiot if you spend any more than £3000 on a car.
2. Even that's a rip off unless you got at least 50% off by using your superior haggling skills.
3. It's absolutely imperative to keep a car until it's done at least 150000 miles.

One man's gopping is another's 'actually, I quite like that' and thank god there's the choice. Before the likes of the New Beetle and MINI the nineties were awash with acres of dull, miserable monobox lumps authorised by accountants. The reason that the Countryman exists is that it fills a hole in the range that BMW believes they can sell to. It's kind of ironic that something so niche is getting a pasting on here of all places.

Now, if someone could help me down from this high horse.....

They are gopping though, that's simply fact. No defending the Mini's design; it's a bit rubbish really.

And the Countryman is even worse.

Me and PeterPoddy are right and you are wrong. Eh, Peter?

It's kind of ironic that something so niche is getting a pasting on here of all places.

Really?

The one thing that you can say about almost all bikes is that they are very functional, especially MTBs. Almost always function before looks.

Pretty much the exact opposite of a lot of new cars which are designed entirely to look different at the expense of functionality.

Wunundred!

Proper Mini:

[img] [/img]

Now that's a truck.

No, it's a large car. And an ugly one at that. With something nasty stuck to the side of it...

Okay, so the niche thing was a bit tongue in cheek 🙂
What is it precisely about the Countryman's aesthetic that makes it less functional? Two different issues, shirley?

No mahoosive generalisations in PP's contribution.

I'm right and you know it.

New question:

How many cars in current or very recent production will ever achieve the status of cars like the Mini?

Answer - Maybe one. But I can't for the life of me specify which.....

I'm right and you know it.

😆

He is you know. And so am I!

The one thing that you can say about almost all bikes is that they are very functional, especially MTBs. Almost always function before looks.

A marketing man's dream.

One man's gopping is another's 'actually, I quite like that' and thank god there's the choice. Before the likes of the New Beetle and MINI the nineties were awash with acres of dull, miserable monobox lumps authorised by accountants.

Open your eyes: Take a look in any car park, but work car parks especially. 90% of the cars there will be just as you describe, the only difference being that these days the main distinguishing feature will be a slightly different shade af grey (Or silver. Silver is shiny grey) Grey. The colour of people who have no imagination and have given up

At least the 80s had colourful cars, in more than one sense of the word

Open your eyes: Take a look in any car park, but work car parks especially

To be fair, when I look in my works car park, all I can see is MINI's and BMW's. 😀

To be fair, when I look in my works car park, all I can see is MINI's and BMW's.

Yup. Grey ones.

I'm gonna post a pic from outside my work in the morning I think.

Those Foxtons ones are proper gopping. Horrible things. Makes me want to damage them when I see them Natural reaction though.

Here's a happy pic of one what's bin nicked then rallyed and rolled:

[img] [/img]

Ah, I almost feel sorry for it...

No I don't! Burn it!!!! 😈

YOu need one of these
[img] [/img]

My first GF had a mini.

*takes a moment*

Right, I am back. Looked like this un:
[img] [/img]

And new ones are wrong.

Nice colour! 🙂

That looks cool, like the red one at the top as well.

Minis are driven by women who think that animal print is actually acceptable off the catwalk. LOL

If you want to take a decent little car & turn it into a phallic symbol, then this takes some beating...

[img] [/img]

😉

What you are PP is someone who's giving far too much of a shit about cars dear chap. Maybe a bit of envy in there somewhere...I dunno...issues anyway.

EDIT: And your original statement is still as bollocks now as it was an hour ago. Now you and Effin stand back for a second and think about what bollocks (hypocritical in the case of Effin, of all the self-righteous eejits around here) you're spouting and come back to me when you've decided you want to take it back.

(Stands back for a second, tries to do as DD asks, fails)

Sorry DD; drawn a blank there. Mustuv bin cos we aren't talking bollocks, but in fact the [i]truth[/i]. Sorry if that hurts.

That Toyota/Aston iQ is really cute. Will be nice to see more little cars like that about in the future.

What you are PP is someone who's giving far too much of a shit about cars dear chap. Maybe a bit of envy in there somewhere...I dunno...issues anyway.

EDIT: And your original statement is still as bollocks now as it was an hour ago. Now you and Effin stand back for a second and think about what bollocks (hypocritical in the case of Effin, of all the self-righteous eejits around here) you're spouting and come back to me when you've decided you want to take it back.

Err no. Not at all

I'll never EVER take it back because it's the TRUTH. And you can't handle the truth, sonny boy.

And them fat Minis are a hideous, cynical marketing exercise that's failed. Failed badly

Aye?

The 7 month wait I had until I got mine would suggest otherwise...

You waited 7 MONTHS for one??? 😮

[img] [/img]

No seriously, you din't really, did you? 😯

I'll never EVER take it back because it's the TRUTH. And you can't handle the truth, sonny boy.

Oooh, get you two and all your posturing...sure sign of issues again. And the fact that you're talking bollocks and getting all wound up about cars that you'll probably never (be able to afford to) drive. Tell me, what issues have you two got with cute little cars all of a sudden? Is it really that important? Surely it's not. There are other things t worry about aren't there? Or is it that there isn't? Life that mundane for you at the moment?

You'll see one day that I can handle the truth...not that I'm likely to see it from you or Effin this evening...not on this thread anyway.

Btw, I wasn't calling you a hypocrite PP, just a bollocks spouter that's all. Effin's the hypocrite around here. He does know it, but he's struggling to deal with being called out for it.

And lastly...

failed. Failed badly

By what criteria? (Ask Effin if you're not sure what that means, he'll explain it to you)

Nah, it isn't a failure in sales terms, but that doesn't stop it looking nasty. And it does look really nasty.

I had one of the first BMW minis, and it was really cute and stupidly (in my hands dangerously) fast. They've got progressively less stylish as time has gone on though, and I would be interested to know if the owner profile has changed over time too. To start with they were a bit of fun; now they're an aspirational neuveu status symbol for people with no sense of aesthetics.

I think the 500 works much better visually now, but it is pretty kitch. I'm happy driving our Panda, but would feel a bit self conscious in a 500 (and here speaks a man who used to drive a Smart cabrio!).

Oh, and I'm intrigued by the bizarre trouser contents of anyone who thinks that Aston Cignet is phalic. Mr Bobbet I presume?

OOh look somebody's not happy bunny cos we slagged their favourite car off! 😀

Look, DD; you chose a Mini. Your judgement is crap. We know this.

It does make you less of a mayn, true, but we won't hold it against you. Much.

We will laugh at you and point in a cruel, unkind and mocking way, but hey ho, that's life. You've just got to accept it really.

Ah well.

How did the people that brought you this
[img] [/img]
And this
[img] [/img]
Manage to bring you the "Cu*tryman"
And this
[img] [/img]
Cars that look like they were designed by Ray Charles.

Effin, have you been on the beer this evening; you're struggling to keep up with me...and look, I'm being kind...I'm keeping everything nice and simple, no complicated words or anything to trip you up.

I couldn't give a stuff if you like Mini's or not matey - I'm just surprised that you, of all people, are getting such a sandy fanny about cute little cars. It's fairly obvious from your input so far (and not just on this thread) that you know stuff-all about cars in general, yet, you're so desperate for a scrap, you've taken giant leaps in the unknown and shown yourself up as a bullshitter. You're usually a bit more careful than that...like I said, maybe you've had a beer or something...maybe even two.

It does make you less of a mayn, true, but we won't hold it against you. Much.

More hypocrisy - this is really not you at all. Any other day, the page would be full of your verbal diarrhoea at the mere suggestion that one's choice of car makes one more or less of a man. This is a new side of you - the driving thread earlier...are you the new hora?

We will laugh at you and point in a cruel, unkind and mocking way

I know matey, that's the type of person you seem to be turning into these days...laughing at someone because they chose a car and couldn't give a swinging shit what YOU think. Are you still the same Effin? I mean, you've never been the deepest, but this is a new shallow for you.

Do what? What on Earth are you wibbling on about? You post that pic of yourself and that hideous big American car thing, and you expect us to believe you know owt about 'style'?

And you think [i]you[/i] can help [i]me[/i]? On issues of aesthetics??? 😆

Someone 'ave a word with him please. Thanks.

I couldn't give a stuff if you like Mini's or not matey - I'm just surprised that you, of all people, are getting such a sandy fanny about cute little cars. It's fairly obvious from your input so far (and not just on this thread) that you know stuff-all about cars in general, yet, you're so desperate for a scrap, you've taken giant leaps in the unknown and shown yourself up as a bullshitter. You're usually a bit more careful than that...like I said, maybe you've had a beer or something...maybe even two.

And what's bitten you, DD? Maybe you should have a beer or two mate. Cheeze....

Chill. Relax. Take a step back. Have a think about things. Don't get yer knickers in such a twist you Silly Billy! 😀

Lordy Lordy Lordy. Talk about anything else, no problem. Have a bit of a joke about someone's taste in motors- all hell breaks loose. 🙄

BMW Minis are still crap though.... 😉

Manage to bring you the "Cu*tryman"

Surely it has nothin on the new 5 series coupe

[img] [/img]

Ah, the TeeJ defence. You were only joking. Thanks for that. That'll do for me. 😀

No, I'm serious about the aesthetics of the new Mini. And I'm right. They're gopping.

I'm not as bothered about them as you obviously are though. I just think they're yet another crap car. I'm not the one taking this whole nonsense seriously....

I'm not as bothered about them as you obviously are though.

Aren't you? You were the one that went posting pictures and saying how you'd absolutely love one of those 500s. I'm not bothered about them either matey - I do get just a little bit bothered by all the sandy fannies (yours being one of them) over car "design". Why can't you just let people drive what they want - as long as it's not some dirty great 4x4 - and leave them be without calling into question their "maynhood", you sexist pig - and pointing and laughing - one of the things you're very quick to point out when others do it over somebody's choices? Hmmm? Why's that then?

Oh right, you were only joking...you said that didn't you.

Take it all back now do you?

Shh. Sleepy time now.

The BMW Mini, the new Beetle and the Fiat 500 are a cynical marketing exercise:

The original cars were actually ground breaking designs, built in times of austerity as innovative solutions to the problem of providing affordable transport for the newly aspirant post-war masses.

The new cars are less mechanically innovative than their predecessors, bloated facsimiles designed to sell to those whose only criteria is a pathetic need to appear 'cool' and to seek the approval of others who know as little about true innovation as they do themselves.

Shallow cars for shallow people.

Form has meaninglessly triumphed over function - the exact opposite of the philosophy and design of the original Mini.

The BMW Mini, the new Beetle and the Fiat 500 are a cynical marketing exercise:

The original cars were actually ground breaking designs, built in times of austerity as innovative solutions to the problem of providing affordable transport for the newly aspirant post-war masses.

The new cars are less mechanically innovative than their predecessors, bloated facsimiles designed to sell to those whose only criteria is a pathetic need to appear 'cool' and to seek the approval of others who know as little about true innovation as they do themselves.

Shallow cars for shallow people.

Form has meaninglessly triumphed over function - the exact opposite of the philosophy and design of the original Mini.

Shut up 😆

It's a car. Get a grip.

Shut up 😆

It's a car. Get a grip.

[img] [/img]

Not my fault you bought a terrible, terrible car. 😀
The naughties equivalent of one of these:
[img] [/img]

What shitbox do you drive?

A £350, 250,000 mile Vauxhall Omega - and it's still got more class and integrity than a Countryman 🙂

But, as you say, it's only a car, don't let it worry you.

This is HILARIOUS

The BMW Mini, the new Beetle and the Fiat 500 are a cynical marketing exercise:

Have to disagree there with regards the Fiat. It's a pretty good evolution of the small car, and it has some pretty interesting innovations in the shape of the Twin Air engine. Read up on it.

The Mini though is a marketing exercise, but so what? Manufacturers in product marketing SHOCKER!

And coming back full circle to the original post... I saw a CHROME Countryman this morning.

It was in Newbury, quite close to the M4 - so it could have been the same one. Surely there can't be two people with the same twisted sense of asthetics?

Surely it has nothin on the new 5 series coupe

Ooh, quite like that. Can't afford one, though 🙁

Car designs just going down the route of fashion, platform build based, bolt on, colour change, throw away, just like high st fashion.
Classic design will always win out, yet even some "classics" wear less well these days. The New Mini falls neatly into the falling aspiration attainability where soon they'll be limiting production runs to bolster up an alleged "must have" exclusiveness and knocking them out in China at half the price, bit like Louis Vuitton bags.
So I’d say hold onto that ugly Mini for in a few years you’ll be able to swap the panels over for something less interesting, less inspiring with less room inside.
BMW used to, long ago, be at the forefront of car design, love em’ or hate em’ they drove well and looked solid enough with enough attainability to keep em’ selling. Now however they’re producing some damn ugly designs and the 4x4 1 series sits at the bottom of the heap, along with this torrid Countryman,
But, and this is a good thing, design is moving forward with sparkles of inspiration along with new materials and processes I’m happy to say we’re moving in the right direction, shame there are mistakes along the way, but it’s like shifting yesterdays stone washed jeans, make them in small numbers and try to attain exclusivity and comfort within the “in crowd” and you’re instantly onto a winner and seller.
I, for one, think the next incarnation of the Countryman will be a full on estate type 4x4 where you can actually get stuff into it.. but no one will buy it because it’s far too practical and you can by an Audi Estate for that can’t you.
And price points, far too expensive for a jelly mould on a skateboard, having set the target marketing price at a level, it's now hard to discount without loosing "brand", so where do you go with that but Up just to the point of people starting to turn to other products..
And that Audi 1 looks pig ugly too.

I hated the concept of the BMW Mini as a big cash in, all style over substance and like many others slagged it down at any chance.
The wife has now bought a Mini Cooper S and I'm now forced to eat my words as I sneak another drive in it. They do handle very well, not quite original Mini handling but enough to not need to use the brakes that often. Plenty of go in them to encourage you to rag it at any given chance and that's without using the sport button that firms the suspension and increases throttle response to make it even more addictive.
Mini is no way to describe the car as sat beside my own estate car it stills looks huge. I've not actually seen a Countryman in the flesh so can only imagine how much bigger that is. They are supposed to be bringing out a mini Mini soon accoding to Auto Express which shrinks it down to slightly bigger than the original Mini but with smaller more economical engines too.
Those that haven't driven a new Mini need to before slaggin them off to prevent future mocking from their other halves.

The 7 month wait I had until I got mine would suggest otherwise...

I would suggest it proves my point exactly. Create an image, then under-supply the product when released to make it seem more exclusive.

Sucker!

Oooh, get you two and all your posturing...sure sign of issues again. And the fact that you're talking bollocks and getting all wound up about cars that you'll probably never (be able to afford to) drive. Tell me, what issues have you two got with cute little cars all of a sudden? Is it really that important? Surely it's not. There are other things t worry about aren't there? Or is it that there isn't? Life that mundane for you at the moment?

Able to afford to? Mate, I can have what I like. I have no isses with cute cars (Fiat 500 for example) Plain and boring is just fine. It's just the gopping ones that offend. BTW, I'm not wound up. I'm having a great time!

You'll see one day that I can handle the truth...

Oh really? When? 34th of Never?

Btw, I wasn't calling you a hypocrite PP,

I never said you were. I know Elfin well, I was pointing it out on his behalf

just a bollocks spouter that's all.

That's only an opinion. No more valid than my own

Effin's the hypocrite around here. He does know it, but he's struggling to deal with being called out for it.

What ARE you on?

failed. Failed badly

By what criteria? (Ask Effin if you're not sure what that means, he'll explain it to you)

So, you think I'm thick eh? Jeeze thanks. Been called worse by better . I'll get over it (Sniff)

Oh, and lastly, BY MY CRITERIA.

Molgrips, a Fiat 500 is a rebodied, less aerodynamic Panda with less interior space and a hugely inflated price.

How has that moved on the design of the small car?

So you're saying it's a smaller Panda. Is there something wrong with a car being smaller? Like the Ka, iQ and others it represents a good practical but very small and efficient car. I dunno if you can remember back to the 80s/90s but small cars were just crap for people who couldn't afford big ones. Now they are way way better, and Fiat have contributed to this.

The genuine innovation is the engine.

All this is so funny. Having built a mini van from parts when I was at school and having several minis since I was kinda against the MINI until I drove it. So I have, and have had quite a few, including:

JCW Convertible (Current)
[img] [/img]

Stage1 Sprite (Current)
[img] [/img]

Cooper S (Sold)
[img] [/img]

It's the classic problem with designing a retro car: how do you develop the styling after the initial hype has died down. I don't have a answer, but it's clear that BMW/ Mini cocked it up from the first attempt to do it. I thought the Clubman was a an affront to decency and good taste, but this thing is just an embarrassment to the brand.
The Beetle: looks OK in hard & soft top, but nowhere to go styling-wise.
Fiat 500: Looks great now, but can't think how it could be developed.
Schirocco: Not quite the same as it's not retro enough, so can (& should in my opinion) be developed. Nice front end, but looks like an elephant sat on the rear.

Molgrips, the twin cylinder engine you're so keen on appears to be getting around 30-35 mpg in general use, according to the angry letters sent into the Telegraph motoring section over the last few months.

Still, it'cheap to manufacture, so that's all right.

The 500 takes up the same amount of roadspace as the Panda but has less interior space.
It's a less efficient car, a step backward.

The original 500 looked like it did for engineering reasons. The new one giives you less whilst costing more.
Pretty cynical if you ask me.....

[b]how do you develop the styling after the initial hype has died down.[/b] I don't have a answer, but it's clear that BMW/ Mini cocked it up from the first attempt to do it. I thought the Clubman was a an affront to decency and good taste, but this thing is just an embarrassment to the brand.

Well having owned three, I can comment

Supercharged Cooper S was a riot. Noisy, cramped, sparse interior, brutally fast, insane grip and handling and a joy to drive. However over time it became tiresome. Brilliant for short sharp blasts but longer trips were tiring.

So as I'm growing out of that, they revise the car and replace it with the turbocharged Cooper S. It's no longer noisy with a sparse interior. Still cramped but the brutal speed and insane grip and handling are still there. It's now got a "Sport" button. With it turned off it's a nice litle hot hatch and quite low key. With it turned on, it's insane. The performance is noticeably increased and the handling is much more responsive. So it's a more civilised development of the launch model which I was growing tired of so it's a logical step for me. However after a few years of that I start to have a niggle about the interior space, lack of boot and complete inability to have anyone in the back...

So they bring out the Countryman. Which has the refinement of the previous model, and the speed and handling are still there along with the sport button for those all important B-road excursions, but this time we've got doors in the back and proper legroom for adults to sit in the back. Plus there's a boot! It's not massive but you'll get a couple of small suitcases in there with ease. Now it's a far more practical while still maintaining the fun factor.

It's fun.

Oh and here's a top tip, if you don't like it, don't buy it 😉

Molgrips, the twin cylinder engine you're so keen on appears to be getting around 30-35 mpg in general use

That surprises me somewhat, but I've no idea if it's true or not. However I strongly suspect a bit of intelligent driving could significantly improve on that. Not sure I trust people who write angry letters to the Telegraph 🙂

If the 500 really is the exact same car as a Panda then so what? Just call it a different body style and let the market choose. The fact that lots of people have bought them means it's a success.

After all, what are Fiat meant to do apart from sell cars? Can't see why they're being blamed tbh.

EDIT: Quick google suggests anything from 35mpg when new to 45-50 when run in for the 500 twin air. Disappointing. Sounds a bit like those VW TSI ones where it's possible to get high MPG but rather technically difficult.

The aforementioned sport button makes me drive like a complete twunt.

On the JCW model (not sure about the others) it also does something to the exhaust/ECU so if you sharply accelerate then overrun it does massive backfires (not like the normal overrun popping). Apparently it's intentional, zoze [i]krazy[/i] germans.

The net effect is me sharply accelerating; decelerating, making a loud pop and grinning like an idiot. Fun though.

However I strongly suspect a bit of intelligent driving could significantly improve on that.

The aforementioned sport button makes me drive like a complete twunt.

The 500 has a much better safety record than a panda. Or so I'm informed by Gav at the FIAT dealer.