The youth / young of today

think the phrase you're looking for is "familiarity breeds contempt".

"of today" is redundant here (and honestly, turns your complaint from a genuine concern into 'old man shouts at cloud'). Sulky teenagers have been sulky teenagers since long before you or I were one.

My gran used to tell me "you don't know you're born" and I was, by most metrics, relatively well-behaved and polite.

OK, maybe the title is incorrect and should be 'why are people so damn rude and unappreciative' as late 20's isn't a sulky teenager

So, I’ve built him a cotic bfe, 26 inch

26...

Last couple of years I have had some contact with youth and giving them stuff.  Everyone was highly appreciative and thankful including me getting handwritten thank you notes from them

I would suggest its more the two you have dealt with rather than a general trend

Those are really poor examples and would drive me nuts. I did a build for my son over lock down. He was so appreciative and my niece makes the custom necklaces so she tends to get that sort of thing

I’m lucky that I meets relatively little of this, given that i teach 16-18 year olds. I teach physics so an elite group. But of the 70 odd I meet per week 60 plus range from a pretty good upwards.  Sure example we need helpers for open evening. They turn up and it’s really hard work, but they just crack on.

It's a bit of rant but I'm so cross about it.  However, I feel as it's family, diplomacy means my hands are tied

Any number of reasons it could be other than just, 'the youth of today'.

For whatever reason I find the whole presents thing really awkward, both giving and receiving.  At 16 I probably felt the same way but there is so much else going on I and no way of understanding my own outward reactions to the extreme internal awkwardness of receiving a gift.

Also, getting your bike stolen, particularly at a young age, is really shit.  He probably feels some internal guilt that he doesn't fully understand.  I remember getting my bike stolen at knife point when I was 16.  There were lots of strange reactions to all sort of things in the weeks and months afterwards.

Or maybe they are just arseholes.  There are a lot of them about.  Of all ages.

It’s a bit of rant but I’m so cross about it.

Probably a bit OTT to be 'so cross' but I understand being mildly annoyed by it. Is the annoyance at the kids, or at the parents (your siblings / siblings-in-law) who should also shoulder the responsibility of saying 'have you thanked Auntie Karen for the necklace?' If the kids aren't aware that polite society suggests a brief call or text or card or whatever to say thanks is in order, unlikely they'll think to do it off their own bat.

However, I feel as it’s family, diplomacy means my hands are tied

Following on from above, is it your responsibility to say something, either to them or to your siblings-in-law. Not in 'so cross' mode but calmly and rationally. If no-one corrects them then how will they learn?

Bike one's a bit odd though. But it is a 26er, Grandad!

as late 20’s isn’t a sulky teenager

He's hardly the "youth of today" then, is he, he's the youth of yesterday. And 16 is teenaged, last I looked.

maybe the title is incorrect and should be ‘why are people so damn rude and unappreciative’

"some" people, but yes. Personally, I blame the parents.

I bristle at older people ragging on younger people, it's a lazy argument and another form of Othering. "Why aren't they like me?" Because you've got 30 years on them, that's why. "Thank you cards" were passé when I was prepubescent, it didn't mean I wasn't appreciative.

User name checks ... wait what?

I work with a lot of the 'youth of today'. I find them mostly engaged, energetic and keen to get on. In stark contrast to all the knackered old duffers who are counting the days to retirement and can't be told anything.

There’s always going to be the entitled ones, and those kicked out into the street and not taught any many’s plus the outliers.  The majority of kids are keen and polite yet are still behind kids behind the backs of any kind of adult mentoring / parental figure.  <br /> 

It’s up to us to guide them, and up to them to mature and put it into practise.    

Having involvement with the youth of today in various aspects of our lives, the majority, even the ones you least expect it, are polite and respectful.

Finding a common interest to start the conversation can be tricky, and sometimes you have to accept that the young people are not in a place to engage with you.

Probably a bit OTT to be ‘so cross’ but I understand being mildly annoyed by it.

I'm sure advice about he should react to the incident has lightened his mood no end... however, it's not just here, my niece got married in the states, we were supposed to go to the wedding but it happened in the middle of lockdown so we couldn't travel. We sent the happy couple a significant sum of money as a wedding present, I wasn't expecting an instant thankyou obviously and I did get a text, but it was nearly 3 months later and only after she was 'nudged' by her mother!

Did a really interesting CPD session on this recently at work (relevant as we have apprentices).

The summary learning was that every single person, regardless of age, has a natural tendency to class their elders as fuddie duddy luddites who have been lucky in life and are technically incompetent. And those younger, are lazy, entitled, badly mannered, etc...

This is the way, and this is the way it will always be.

"Children; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. They no longer rise when elders enter the room, they contradict their parents and tyrannize their teachers. Children are now tyrants.”

Socrates 470BC

A young fella who I used to teach, lives locally, recently had a nasty motorcycle accident which resulted in him spending the last few weeks in hospital. When he returned home I went to see how he was doing and asked if there was anything I could do to help.
I offered to make him his dinner because cooking was going to be a challenge. Each evening after we had eaten, I would take him a meal, after a fortnight, I was still waiting for a thank you or a message to say that he’d enjoyed it. Nothing was forthcoming so I have made the excuse that with Jnr home from Uni, there were no longer any leftovers. You just can’t help some people. I feel bad but something tells me that he doesn’t appreciate the gesture.

It's now easier than ever to show appreciation. A quick 10 second WhatsApp is all it takes. I'm not talking thank you cards. Or maybe I'm in the wrong for not assuming appreciation by default.

It’s up to us to guide them, and up to them to mature and put it into practise.

Nnnnmmgggggg 🥵😁😩

I’m sure advice about he should react to the incident has lightened his mood no end…

You don't come to a bunch of mainly white middle aged middle managers with something like that expecting empathy do you? He clearly wanted advice and to be told where he went wrong, and that's what he'll get 😉

I'll take the young over the old any day. My parents sit on their backsides all day whining about how shit their lives are and how they've never been given anything despite being the beneficiaries of millions of pounds of free healthcare in the last 10 years, disability living benefits, generous pensions etc, whilst my 19 year old daughter has never asked for anything, gone out and got herself a job so she can be financially independent, worked her socks off to get straight As in her a-levels, and is now applying to unis with hardly any pushing from us.

Yes, teenagers/the young may be a bit socially dysfunctional (mostly down to lockdown I would argue) and not show the same manners or deference that we were taught when we were kids, but it's our job to understand them more than it is to enforce our own standards or behaviours that we were taught decades ago.

Or maybe I’m in the wrong for not assuming appreciation by default.

Yes, you are.

If I do something nice for someone or give them a present I don't expect anything in return.  Not even thanks.  I made the gesture because I wanted to.

If, however, I feel like it wasn't appreciated for any reason, not just a lack of thanks, then I just don't do the same thing again.

Sounds like you feel your gestures aren't being appreciated so stop making them.  Don't just assume you are somehow a pillar of virtue while the young are fundamentally ungrateful scrotes.

At the end of the day, did you make these gestures solely to elicit gratitude?  If so I'd say this a 'you' problem rather than a 'them' problem.  Just be happy with the gestures you made and don't make anymore gestures towards these people in the future.

Oh, and if you want to get 'generational' about it, their generation is going to have to live with the environmental devastation and social unrest your generation's over-consumption and selfishness caused.

Going to have to do a bit more than some jewelry and an old bike to get a thank you, I reckon.

Oh, and if you want to get ‘generational’ about it, their generation is going to have to live with the environmental devastation and social unrest your generation’s over-consumption and selfishness caused.

Going to have to do a bit more than some jewelry and an old bike to get a thank you, I reckon.

Wow, that escalated. You could have left it at the first message, the personal attack in the second was uncalled for. You know nothing about me, my ethics, my morals, my age, how selfish or unselfish I am or my lifestyle.

So my localised feelings regarding family appreciation are now somehow linked to the state of the world.

Not sure if the youth of today are any more rude than my day (gen x'er). Maybe a little more self absorbed but we didn't grow up under the cloud of social media, I find it hard to imagine how I'd have dealt with that and don't forgat that the covid lockdowns will have affected them much more than older generarions. I feel for gen z, it's like they're a generation who are being experimented on.

If there's a problem with the kids then the blame surely lies with those who are bringing them up and educating them, they're kids after all and only a reflection of the forces exerted upon them.

Working in the Arts I get a lot of emails about educational opportunities working with youth but they always pivot around discussing mental health or exploring their identities (instead of exploring their imaginations). If not that it will be about engaging with climate change, which I wouldn't deny is an issue but I do feel we are instrumentalising kids, projecting our fears on to them and leaving them traumatised.

I can't remember politics playing much of a role in my education, I has a brilliant Art teacher who was a full on save the planet, Greenpeace activist but she would never have dreamt of projecting her views onto her students. I'm not so sure that's the case these days.

Just because we know the world is a s*** show right now doesn't mean we have to rope the kids into it, we project too much pessimism on to them.

A certain Pink Floyd song comes to mind....

Kids should be taught to write thankyou letters as soon as they can write. Plus 'please may I get down, please may I have, I'd be most grateful if....' and you'll be doing them a big favour.

To quote the late Geoffrey Summerfield, 'manners are the small change of morals.'

Sounds like you've gone to a lot of effort to help him out for it to appear to be just thrown back in your face so I can completely understand being cross about it. How posh was his Commencal? Perhaps he's being snobbish (as teens can be prone to) about accepting your 26" Cotic build (although it sounds decent to us). Unfortunate. Maybe contact parents try and understand what's going on.

the parents (your siblings / siblings-in-law) who should also shoulder the responsibility of saying ‘have you thanked Auntie Karen for the necklace?’

Yep, im firmly in the 'blame the parents' camp. What sort of attitude do the parents of your gfs nieces have...do you think they'd be 'meh' or mortified by their kids lack of courtesy?

You just can’t help some people.

Sure you can. It's exactly what you were doing, successfully. The reason you stopped wasn't because he was refusing your help, it was because he wasn't stroking your ego.

Maybe he was just an ungrateful shit. Maybe he felt uncomfortable acknowledging 'charity'. Maybe he just wasn't brought up in an environment where "please" and "thank you" were given particular importance. Maybe he interpreted your "leftovers" as just that, the scraps left over which would be going in the bin otherwise. Who knows, you're in the best position to judge. You shouldn't feel obligated to help and it's fantastic that you did, but you can't take the moral high ground in cutting him off because he failed to say "yummy" occasionally.

Thank yous are still as important as they ever were.   I got thank you notes fro all the kids i gave Julies money to .  Id have thought less of them without.  As it is i feel kindly to them .

We must live on a different planet, I find the young polite and appreciative - in comparison with entitled old gits who think they own the place, and do, but aren't giving a scrap to the young, razzing round in their SUVs cursing  young people making an effort on their bikes. 🙂 If young people are pissed with my generation they have every reason to be, we've collectively got us all into this mess.

Kids should be taught to write thankyou letters as soon as they can write.

I've not seen her for a while, how is Queen Victoria?

A "thank you" WhatsApp message maybe. Even that's probably passé with the yoot these days.

Not just the young ‘uns our daughter in law is like that , don’t ever remember her saying thank you for anything we’ve done to help 🙄

So my localised feelings regarding family appreciation are now somehow linked to the state of the world.

You were drawing blanket conclusions about young people based on the behaviour of two members of your family. Sounds like you want it both ways.

I had this once or twice. Expecting a thankyou or whatever. Grumped for a bit.

They were later diagnosed with Autism.

So I learnt somewhat, and what to expect.

@20+ build your bike or least be grateful. If you don't have a condition of some kind.

cougar - in your circles maybe.  ~Everyone else I know does "thank you"

@cougar, I get what you are saying but manners cost nothing is what my parents taught me. I genuinely can’t understand how you wouldn’t say thanks if somebody delivered your dinner?

The youth / young of today

They're generally sound in my experience. Bear in mind they are not the generation that gave us the "gammonati" which puts them ahead on points before they do anything.

People are people - I'm dealing with some older rels and can't believe what whiny snowflakes they are--

cougar – in your circles maybe. ~Everyone else I know does “thank you”

By post? Is your fax machine broken or something?

@cougar, I get what you are saying but manners cost nothing is what my parents taught me. I genuinely can’t understand how you wouldn’t say thanks if somebody delivered your dinner?

Sure, and I was brought up exactly the same. But a gift where you expect something in return or attach conditions isn't really a gift. As I say, he could well just be an ingrate, but equally it simply might not have occurred to him. Does someone automatically blurting out "thank you" out of nothing more than habit because that's what's been programmed into them actually change anything? Unless it's considered and they mean it, it's just noise.

Apropos of nothing: An anecdote from when I was at Infant School. We got free milk during the day (different times), then at the end of the day you could go back and ask for more to use up their leftover cartons. There was no refrigeration and warm milk was kinda grim so it wasn't my favourite thing in the world. Leaving one time, I got sent back by my gran to go and ask for some milk. As a, what, 6-year old? undiagnosed Aspie, starting up a conversation with the scary headmistress wasn't my idea of fun either. Scared to death, I sidled into the room and shily asked for some milk. She asked "what's the magic word?" I had no idea what she was talking about so after a moment's bemusement I offered "abracadabra>" She gave me a telling off for being cheeky and I ran back to my folks in tears.

Wow, that escalated. You could have left it at the first message, the personal attack in the second was uncalled for. You know nothing about me, my ethics, my morals, my age, how selfish or unselfish I am or my lifestyle.

Don't start a thread slagging off an entire generation if you're not up for a bit of getting slagged off right back.

Their generation is severely screwed mostly thanks to your generation's massive sense of entitlement which you are demonstrating wonderfully.

i reckon the  percentage of rude and or ignorant youth is exactly the same as the percentage of rude and or ignorant adults.

NO cougar - just an expression of thanks in some form as is totally normal.  Its you that is out of step here.  Politeness makes the world go round

I thank bus drivers, the postie, waiters and anyone who gives me anything.

I've not fully paid attention, had the OP thanked everyone for their responses?

I’ve not fully paid attention, had the OP thanked everyone for their responses?

I'm quite free with my thanks: people who stop at zebra crossings, bus drivers, the staff at the pool, people who hold doors..., it's spontaneous gratitude. But being forced to sit down and write thank you letters for totally useless Christmas presents I'd never asked for was one of the worst aspects of Christmas.

School milk used to be in glass bottles in steel crates. Many had the silver caps punctured by birds and on cold days the silver cap sat on top of a column of frozen milk. Despite that you had to be quick to get your bottle, there was never any left over.

just an expression of thanks in some form as is totally normal. Its you that is out of step here. Politeness makes the world go round

I thank bus drivers, the postie, waiters and anyone who gives me anything.

So do I. That wasn't what I was saying at all.

Don’t start a thread slagging off an entire generation if you’re not up for a bit of getting slagged off right back.

Their generation is severely screwed mostly thanks to your generation’s massive sense of entitlement which you are demonstrating wonderfully

And how am I demonstrating this? In my second post, l acknowledged that the post title was incorrect and my point is more directed at rude and unappreciative people. Beyond the post title, I haven't slagged off a generation - I couldn't edit the title.

Do you mean my massive sense of entitlement is my hope of a simple thank you or acknowledgement of my messages when someone has put time and effort into a present, or helping somebody out?

I’ve not fully paid attention, had the OP thanked everyone for their responses?

In terms of the bike, I'm not after a thank you, I'm after him replying to my messages so I can give it to him. After he said he wanted it, I bought new parts for it, built it up, don't have space to keep it ( and have said this to him) but I get no replies even when I offer to drive a 60 mile round trip to drop it off.

Is my frustration unreasonable in this situation?

I’m dealing with some older rels and can’t believe what whiny snowflakes they are

Don’t get me started. One of the things I’ve heard most often is shite like ‘I’ve worked my whole life and never had anything back’. Total and utter entitled bollocks. And yet the kids I know never ask for a thing, they just get with it, work bloody hard and do whatever they need to do.

Some folk are piss poor at replying. Older, current and younger generations.
I do think a thank you or a reply should be standard issue. Manners innit

Do you mean my massive sense of entitlement is my hope of a simple thank you or acknowledgement of my messages when someone has put time and effort into a present, or helping somebody out?

You clearly feel like  you were entitled to something, otherwise you wouldn't have started the thread.

I don't know why they don't feel the need to acknowledge your efforts.  Maybe they are arseholes.  Maybe they aren't but they are only arseholes to you.

If they're arseholes to everyone then that's just the way they are.  No point in worrying about it.

If it's only you, then you can either decide it's a problem with their generation or maybe you could ask yourself, 'What have I done to make them dislike me'.

It could be they've had to listen to one too many overly generalised rants from you and are sick to death of you.

Why are they so damn rude and unappreciative?

Said every generation about every younger generation. Im a millennial and im pretty sure my parents and parents parents generation said the same thing about me. Just get over it. No ones perfect.

To throw out some fun generalisations boomers are the worst brought several homes for a fiver, sitting on massive pensions moan when the slightest thing hasn't gone your way because everything throughout your life has. My generation "doesn't know how good we got it" because I have a smartphone and spent all my money on smashed avo.

The not thanking for presents thing winds both my wife and I up....when we discussed it, we both had to phone relatives etc within a day or so of receiving birthday/Christmas presents as kids.

As someone doing a climate change related MSc currently, I can sympathise with the environmental damage of a generation arguement (I agree!) I'm not sure that it's strictly related to the op though.