[Closed] The Suarez Evra thing rumbling on.

Only because people keep bringing it up. If people didn't make such an issue of it, it would die away.

don't like either of them.

not sure about Evra setting up Suarez, but not surprised he didn't want to shake his hand after what happened.

Loved Evra's early tackle on Suarez when he took out Rio

Evra would have been off if that had connected, just like Ferdinand should have been.

Jesus wept yes Suarez wanted to shake his hands but the nasty Evra did not want to and it was all his fault.
The nice South American fella from the loosing side tried his best to do the right thing but evra just would not..it was real shame as Suarez and liverpool have dealt with it well so far
you can see it here to see suarez trying really hard to shake hands and evra just ignoring it - FFS SBZ we all have eyes
and we can see the incident, the scoreline and the league standings 😉

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16996567

trolling is one thing
Supporting yout team is fine
You would need to be tripping and/or have lost all sense of your faculties of reason to think that evra does the handshake thing rather than Suarez

Evra's assault on Ferdinand should have been a red.

JY - I take it that you have only seen the one camera angle then?

And where does Evra's hand go after he has shaken Jordan Henderson's hand in the video that you have seen?

http://lockerz.com/s/182754888

Have a click on that JY - then tell me who is not wanting to shake hands.

Was ferdinand gonna shake suarez's hand ....big no .....evra at the end out of order ,liverpool players should of knocked him out, hope they did in the tunnel

And the tackle on suarez by ferdinand with the elbow leading where he hurt himself should not be looked at retrospectively

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7068/6857102805_911ce97d4a.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7068/6857102805_911ce97d4a.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

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To be truthful there are people I know that I wouldn't pee on if there were burning, so a non handshake isn't that big an issue, although the FA stepped in when it looked like John Terry was going to get snubbed...mmmm

I'm a United fan and I would say that Evra gave Suarez the opportunity to not shake his hand.

As for Rio, we'll never know if he would have shaken Suarez' hand is Suarez had shaken Evra's. I think he would.

**BREAKING NEWS** Premiership players behave like children shocker 🙄

their all a bunch of overpaid headline grabbing players/actors..

That's not a troll....

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To be fair on Rooney he did really well to keep out of it today - the nonsense that is, not the football.

What Suárez did was callous, premeditated and dimwitted to the point that, if Liverpool had any sense, they would have condemned it on the spot and at least salvaged a semblance of dignity. Instead, they reverted to their default setting whenever Suárez comes under scrutiny: this half-baked conspiracy that everyone is against them and that the only way to combat this is to go on the attack themselves. Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing.

Perhaps we should be used to it by now but it was still shocking to see Dalglish, one of the giants of our game, eyeballing his interviewer and tell him that it was "bang out of order" to suggest that Suárez had done anything even remotely wrong.

At least Sir Alex Ferguson, so aggrieved he said Suárez should never be allowed to wear Liverpool's colours again, could step out of his own anger to acknowledge that Patrice Evra should have resisted his post-match victory dance.

This was the moment when Dalglish should have taken a deep breath and admitted that, yes, it was wrong of Suárez, unhelpful and immature, and he would be pointing this out to his player. Instead, he played dumb. He had no idea what had happened in the fair-play handshake and, in the absence of a polygraph, Robert De Niro would have been proud of his dramatic pose.

Then he realised the questions were not going to end there and it was here the paranoia, the blind bias and pigheaded denials all merged into one.

At one point he switched the subject to blame Sky. "When we had the FA Cup tie, because there was no 24-hour news channel, nothing happened." He cited the fact there were only two bookings in this game, ignoring that there were two separate flash points when police and fluorescent-jacketed security guards had to separate the players. Most pathetically of all, there were suggestions later on it was actually Evra who withdrew his hand. It was claptrap and, wisely, nobody from Anfield dared say it on the record.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/11/liverpool-kenny-dalglish-luis-suarez

**BREAKING NEWS** Premiership players behave like children shocker

Indeed. Can we all just play nicely and get back to counting our millions?

Junkyard - Member
What Suárez did was callous, premeditated and dimwitted to the point that, if Liverpool had any sense, they would have condemned it on the spot and at least salvaged a semblance of dignity. Instead, they reverted to their default setting whenever Suárez comes under scrutiny: this half-baked conspiracy that everyone is against them and that the only way to combat this is to go on the attack themselves. Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing.
Perhaps we should be used to it by now but it was still shocking to see Dalglish, one of the giants of our game, eyeballing his interviewer and tell him that it was "bang out of order" to suggest that Suárez had done anything even remotely wrong.

At least Sir Alex Ferguson, so aggrieved he said Suárez should never be allowed to wear Liverpool's colours again, could step out of his own anger to acknowledge that Patrice Evra should have resisted his post-match victory dance.

This was the moment when Dalglish should have taken a deep breath and admitted that, yes, it was wrong of Suárez, unhelpful and immature, and he would be pointing this out to his player. Instead, he played dumb. He had no idea what had happened in the fair-play handshake and, in the absence of a polygraph, Robert De Niro would have been proud of his dramatic pose.

Then he realised the questions were not going to end there and it was here the paranoia, the blind bias and pigheaded denials all merged into one.

At one point he switched the subject to blame Sky. "When we had the FA Cup tie, because there was no 24-hour news channel, nothing happened." He cited the fact there were only two bookings in this game, ignoring that there were two separate flash points when police and fluorescent-jacketed security guards had to separate the players. Most pathetically of all, there were suggestions later on it was actually Evra who withdrew his hand. It was claptrap and, wisely, nobody from Anfield dared say it on the record.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/11/liverpool-kenny-dalglish-luis-suarez

Isn't this the guy that wrote a book on Ferguson and admitted he pretty much hates Liverpool?

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[b]Profile[/b]

Daniel Taylor is chief football writer for the Guardian and Observer. He was previously the Guardian's man in Manchester He has written books on Manchester United and Nottingham Forest

There's some good old unbiased reporting for you right there.

aye says the liverpool fayn- its a fair shout to to be fair I did not know his "bias"

Despite perceptions I dont read the Guardian as a rule.

Daniel taylor talking shite again..totally obvious and biased ,evra could of caused a riot at the end not suarez refusing a handshake ...or ferdinand refusing a handshake too! ...lets see what the FA have got to say about that ....they will be alright man utd have different rules than other clubs

If Suarez had been found guilty of a criminal act, like racism is, in a criminal court then I would be glad to see him kickd out of the club. However, this wasnt the case and he was convicted on the basis that the FA's "independent" panel, one member of which is a close personal friend of Alex Ferguson, found Evra's account of events more believable than Suarez's version. Not a shred of evidence.

Looking forward to tonights MOTD to be fair.

Is Suarez admitting he said the word part of your "not a shred of evidence"?
To quote

There's some good old unbiased reporting for you right there

*It is what Daglish's kids call Hansen and he was stand in to give away Kennys daughter if he was delayed [ he was at a footie game with pool iirc]

Not a shred of evidence

Apart from him admitting to using the word Negro when arguing with Evra!

I am flabbergasted by Liverpools fans, and kenny Dalglish's refusal to condemn Saurez for his behavior. It's disgusting. the booing of Evra a few weeks ago (along with Chelsea fans booing Rio Ferdinand last week, because Terry allegedly abused his brother) is taking football into the gutter. shame on any 'fan' who defends Saurez, you're as bad as him.

Suarez admitted using the spanish word "negro" once. Evra accused him of calling him a "****" 10 times, which was proven to be a lie.

Suarez admitted using the spanish word "negro" once

so, in an argument with Evra he made reference to Evras skin colour. so you agree he's a racist?

I'm struggling with this somewhat. Reading the evidence. Saurez said to Evra "I kicked you because you are black" and "I do not talk to blacks". This all seems to have got lost somewhere. I find this more offensive than loose use of the word negro!!

Warton, not defending suarez if it happened more the different rules for man utd compared to the rest of the clubs...if i was suarez i wouldnt of shook his hand either

Suarez may be guilty, he may not be - who knows? My issue was that he was found guilty by an FA appointed court who were prosecution, judge and jury all rolled in to one - is it any surprise these FA appointed panels have a 99.5% conviction rate? There was no corroborating evidence for either of Evra's or Suarez's story and it ultimately came down to who's version seemed the most credible - not the ideal way to settle something of this magnitude.

not defending suarez if it happened more the different rules for man utd compared to the rest of the clubs...if i was suarez i wouldnt of shook his hand either

I don't really know what this post means...

There was no corroborating evidence for either of Evra's or Suarez's story and it ultimately came down to who's story seemed the most credible

Am I missing something? Suarez ADMITTED to calling Evra a negro in an argument.

so, in an argument with Evra he made reference to Evras skin colour. so you agree he's a racist?

I think it's racist to not take cultural differences into account. Mentioning skin colour is not racist.

Warton - you are missing the bit where "negro" is a term of endearment. Saurez's wife calls him negro.

warton - Member
Suarez admitted using the spanish word "negro" once
so, in an argument with Evra he made reference to Evras skin colour. so you agree he's a racist?

Suarez's defence was that in his culture, the word "negro" has no racist connotations - to them it would be similar to us calling someone with fair hair 'blondie'.

I think it's racist to not take cultural differences into account. Mentioning skin colour is not racist.

So in an argument, if I called a black man a black bastard, that is no different to calling him a bastard? And you believe that that is not racist?

Warton - you are missing the bit where "negro" is a term of endearment. Saurez's wife calls him negro.

So in a heated argument, he uses a term of endearment, which is no way meant to insult the person he argues with?

Have a word with yourself man.

Is it racist to call a black man black? Your scenario could be taken either way depending on context.

Suarez's defence was that in his culture, the word "negro" has no racist connotations

Again. "I kicked you because you are black"...

That's it isn't it??

Suarez and Evra are well known best of buddies, you could see it written all over their faces in the intial incident. So obviously it was a term of endearment. Keep up warton.

IT MEANS..... MAN UTD GET TREATED DIFFERENT WHEN IN FRONT OF THE FA AND SUAREZ AS RIGHT NOT TO SHAKE HIS HAND
IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH

Voodoo chile, why was he right not to shake his hand?

DaddyPig - Member
Again. "I kicked you because you are black"...

That's it isn't it??

Thats was Evra's version, not Suarez's.

Erm - because Suarez does not believe that he did anything wrong, was unjustly banned and has had his reputation ruined.

How is that Evras fault?
He complained about being abused racially by Saurez, Saurez admitted it and he got banned.

So you think he shouldn't shake Evras hand because he racially abused him, and Evra had the cheek to complain about it? Interesting view.

I am flabbergasted people are actually attempting to defend Suarez in any way. Despite not particularly liking Liverpool, I've always admired the history, tradition of a big club. That's slowly eroding away and I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that.

KK and a fair amout of the support who are blindly following his lead are behaving distinctly small time. Perhaps A Galtieri/thatcheresque diversion from Kenny to distract people from problems on the home front? If so, it's working.

Evra is trouble, remember chelsea groundstaff,french national squad loves to be in the middle of aggro all the time

The simple thing that people are missing is that Suarez did not admit racially abusing Evra. There is no evidence to support it other than one mans word against another.

For example - Warton - you just emailed me calling me p****. Try and disprove it.

Warton - you just emailed me calling me p****. Try and disprove it.

No problem, I'll get my email records from my ISP. simple...

The simple thing that people are missing is that Suarez did not admit racially abusing Evra

He did though, you said so a few posts back.

Go on then - get your email records from your isp. But then again you might have used another connection, only a fool would send abusive email from their own connection right....

No I did not say that he admitted racially abusing Evra - he used the spanish word "negro" in a conversation in spanish. That is not racist abuse.

No I did not say that he admitted racially abusing Evra - he used the spanish word "negro" in a conversation in spanish. That is not racist abuse.

In an argument, not a conversation. Big difference IMO. I understand that it may not be a racial insult in his country, but his country has massive racism ingrained in the culture, so I take that with a pinch of salt.
Also, because he doesn't deem it to be racist doesn't mean other people don't, and won't take offence to it.

In an argument, not a conversation. Big difference IMO. I understand that it may not be a racial insult in his country, but his country has massive racism ingrained in the culture, so I take that with a pinch of salt.
Also, because he doesn't deem it to be racist doesn't mean other people don't, and won't take offence to it.

So does England.

Also - you still sent me an email calling me a p****. Why did you do that? 😉

because you are 😀

No I did not say that he admitted racially abusing Evra - he used the spanish word "negro" in a conversation in spanish. That is not racist abuse.

Nah mate - I'm certainly not a prude. 🙂

When would you consider a Spanish speaker using the word negro as being racist?

Dunno. Probably when they were being racist.

Something like "I kicked you because you are black"... might be considered as using the word black/negro/negrito in a racist way then?

Is your knowledge of uruguayan culture and language good enough to make that judgement?

Probably better than yours having lived among Spanish and South Americans, I would say yes. It's more likely that Suarez sees racism as acceptable as he has been a victim of it in the past.

I didnt ask if it was better than mine. I asked if you were qualified to make a judgement on this issue. I have lived amongst South Americans also, doesnt mean that I speak any of the language though.

As a Liverpool fan, I wish Suarez would just let his football do the talking. All this controversy that's following him around is bad for him, and more importantly, bad for one of the world's greatest clubs.

As for the racism - only Suarez can say what cultural meaning he applied when he called Suarez a negro. Not defending him at all, but if it's OK for rappers to repeatedly call each other "niggaz" and it not be deemed racist, then there's obviously an argument that cultural differences can be relevant.

Hablo Español, comprendo perfectamente bien que significa negrito, macho.

He didnt say negrito though now did he....

But please tell me what negrito means anyway.

What an odd thing to say, I guess I understand how the Spanish word negro is used and how racism appears in Spanish day to day life, but if you don't wish to learn from other's experiences, I can't do any more.

Looking forward to tonights MOTD to be fair.

I suspect you might not enjoy it quite as much as you're expecting, trolling. On the intro to the news they just showed a clip from the angle of the photo which you seem to claim proves your version of events - the first video I've seen from that angle. As a complete neutral (I'm very definitely not a MU fan), I'd suggest it's quite clear from that who's avoiding shaking who's hand.

Shall we start a new thread for Terry or tag on to the end of this one!?

What an odd thing to say, I guess I understand how the Spanish word negro is used and how racism appears in Spanish day to day life, but if you don't wish to learn from other's experiences, I can't do any more.

But spain isnt uruguay...

Yet we all watch blazing saddles and have a good chuckle 🙄

But spain isnt uruguay...

. I have lived amongst South Americans also

If you really wish to argue that Suarez called him a negro whilst nipping him in an attempt to calm him down and defuse a hostile situation then obviously a well reasoned argument wont persuade you. FFS a child can tell a better lie that that

ps

215. It was accepted by both Mr Greaney and Mr McCormick in closing submissions that this is
not simply a case of one person's word against another.
the actual report and Suarez's legal team accepting it is not just one person word against another

FWIW he displayed exemplary self restraint today in the face of Evras taunts at the end

Sad incident off which the constant apologists and non acceptance has shamed a trully great club

if Suarez genuinely feels he's done nothing wrong (then IMO he's a racist tool) then I can understand him not wanting to shake his accusers hand, but he has left Liverpool and in particular Dalglish with egg on his face after the statements earlier in the week.. [url= http://www.****/sport/football/article-2098485/Luis-Suarez-shake-Patrice-Evras-hand-says-Kenny-Dalglish.html ]Got that wrong then Kenny[/url]

I think the worst thing that happened in the game today was Suarez reaction at half time when he got all worked up and kicked the ball into the dug out, Valencia tapped him on the shoulder to say what do you think you're doing and Suarez starts wiping away at his shirt where Valencia had touched him.

I can't help but feel that despite the fact that SBZ's arguments are cogent, rational & compelling they are just [i]slightly[/i] undermined by the fact that we can all see the video for ourselves. (and read the however many pages it was report which comprehensively demolished the defence that it was all a cultural misunderstanding)

I think the worst thing that happened in the game today was Suarez reaction at half time when he got all worked up and kicked the ball into the dug out, Valencia tapped him on the shoulder to say what do you think you're doing and Suarez starts wiping away at his shirt where Valencia had touched him.

I spotted that on MOTD and was surprised it wasn't commented on.

I think many people feel Suarez was treated at least shabbily by the FA panel regarding this and Suarez himself feels that Evra lied and as a consequence didnt want to shake his hand.
In many ways this is at least consistent with a man who feels he is not a racist but has been portrayed as one. Evra and the media have put a mark on his career that will never go away.
I think the media are pleased that this can now continue even though the absence of a handshake is hardly a significant event.
What disappointed me the most was Ferguson's reaction and I am also disappointed that it is headline news on the BBC site.
Ferguson has presided over several similar non handshake events as well as supporting a player who assaulted a fan during a game, another who deliberately ended another players career and one who has avoided drugs tests. For Ferguson to continue to vilify Suarez simply because he refused to shake someones hand is beyond the pale.
What next ? Manchester United make offer for Suarez ?

Valencia tapped him on the shoulder to say what do you think you're doing and Suarez starts wiping away at his shirt where Valencia had touched him.

Mmm... not sure about that. I watched it over and over. Not sure if Suarez thought something had been thrown, I dont think we can tell from the pictures, he certainly did what you said but I don't think we should look for things that aren't there.

I'm from Scotland, so my exposure to fans of English clubs was slightly limited when I was growing up. So when I used to hear sweeping statements along the lines of "Liverpool fans whine constantly", I never believed it. However, some of their responses to the whole Evra / Suarez thing have been UNREAL.
Suarez is openly racist - Liverpool fans deny it, concoting weired conspiracy theories, when the FA, a QC, and pretty much the whole rest of the world can see he was plainly being racist. Liverpool fans blame Evra.
Suarez rejects handshake - I saw the game, saw the million replays on Sky afterwards, Saurez is the one who refuses to shake hands, it's as plain as day.
Denying this is utterly bizarre.