[Closed] The STW Ski & Snowboard thread. The 2015-2016 season

Just booked mrs DD's ski hire for Reberty 2000 through snowbrainer.

Discount code snow1 is still working. £60 for top skis and boots as opposed to £90ish booking direct with shop or £99 if booking with skifamille. (Although, tbh, I don't know why anyone ever books kit rental direct with their travel company.)

Lift passes bloody expensive though. 😐

Lift passes are always expensive!

I did a lot of thinkign about the cost of things when over in Banff 2.0 and have pretty much decided that the next time I go there (or anywhere else I guess) I'll spend the time and just book things myself instead of being lazy and going through an agent.

Lift passes are no cheaper, I can probably make my own kit pay for itself in a couple of seasons and I swear I could have got the hotel cheaper myself. Flights? Mebbe.

Ned, I'll be in StAnton next week as well, coincidentally meeting another group of 7 people on Wednesday / Thursday... Your not one of them are you? Going out with Rich B?

ooooh! So close! Rich N, group of 6.

+ Christian K, his mate Theo ?

Arsebiscuits. Just dragged snowboard bag from loft (second hand Burton jobbie) and had forgotten that wheels were broken by the lovely United ( 😡 ) when we were in Whistler...I'd use it without the wheels but there's a huge gash in the arse (yeah, yeah) of the bag. So, having booked snowboard carriage, I now need a new one. I don't think I'll go for the budget Animal bags that some sales reps use, but plenty of DaKine wheelies are showing across Amazon for good prices.

Anybody with a DaKine wheelie that can tell me if there's sufficient room for a few jackets & slacks after loading up with board, boots and bindings?

Finally...any other recommendations sub £100?

EDIT: And finally, do the quoted lengths of snowboard bags indicate which board size goes in? i.e. will a 156cm bag fit a 155cm board, or does one need to go a bit longer? (waits for obvious joke from obvious contributors 🙂 )

sub £100?

Cheapskate.

Cheapski.

😀

Anybody with a DaKine wheelie that can tell me if there's sufficient room for a few jackets & slacks after loading up with board, boots and bindings?

Hey DD, I think mine is a [url= http://eu.dakine.com/p/snowboard/gear-bags/board-bags/low-roller-16w ]Dakine Low Roller (165)[/url]

I usually just wear my jacket at the airport, but yeah the bags aren't enormous but there is enough room for slacks, tops, impact shorts etc

(We've successfully squeezed two boards and two sets of boots & bindings into a single bag before - with a bit of faffery).

Anybody with a DaKine wheelie that can tell me if there's sufficient room for a few jackets & slacks after loading up with board, boots and bindings?

Loads of room. I bought this one for my last holiday and it's got loads of room

https://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/V/Dakine_Low_Roller_Wheelie_Snowboard_Bag_175cm_Phoenix-(109817)

Thanks Gee2DaEss. Steezy man.

(We've successfully squeezed two boards and two sets of boots & bindings into a single bag before - with a bit of faffery).

Bleedin' sleazy now have a 20kg limit on snowboard bags as well. 😡

Yeah luggage scales are a must if you're trying to do it on the cheap.

If you really want to save weight and have no shame then wear your boots on the plane 😀

(or a snide foot under a corner of the bag when you place it on the scales 😉 )

I've got Dakine Low Roller snowboard bags. Not as voluminous as some bags bags, but to be honest I prefer that as I can still lift them when they're full. We used to have a hugemungous Burton snowboard bags and they'd be stupidly heaving if you completely filled them.

Hokay. Thanks all. Looks like a DaKine low roller will be the way to go. Really only need to fit 2 x jacket+slacks in there as well as the three Bs. I can always vac-pac them in bags and figure the rest out on the way home.

Bleedin' sleazy now have a 20kg limit on snowboard bags as well

The cheeky monkeys, that must have changed pretty recently. Need to pack carefully now.

Really only need to fit 2 x jacket+slacks in there as well as the three Bs.

Easy. Bindings stay on the board. Boots go in the end pockets (along with socks, tools, wax etc). Jackets and slacks go in the middle between the bindings.

I usually pack my helmet in there too.

[img] [/img]

I can get 2 boards (bindings removed), 2 pairs of bindings, boots, outwear + back country gear in one.

You might struggle with 3 board/bindings + 2 sets of clothing (you definitely won't get boots in a swell).

Les Deux Alpes.

Big avalanche. School group.

🙁

nedrapier - Member

Ned, I'll be in StAnton next week as well, coincidentally meeting another group of 7 people on Wednesday / Thursday... Your not one of them are you? Going out with Rich B?

ooooh! So close! Rich N, group of 6.

+ Christian K, his mate Theo ?

nope, how random. I'll admit I only know the Rich B bloke so could be. All from surrey hills way.

Les Deux Alps, just seen that still five missing

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-avalanche-group-of-school-pupils-and-teachers-engulfed-on-ski-trip-in-alps-a6810396.html

Ha. none of mine are!

Apart from me and the wife, and then only just - far SW corner, but not where you'd think of when you hear "Surrey Hills".

I'll be red-jacketed, khaki-trousered, stupid blue-flappy-hatted, on an attention whore-y, pointy black board. Give us a yell!

Oh dear ... it's not looking good in L2A. 🙁

only saw Sui's 1st when I started typing.

Horrible.

Seen there has been an avalanche above arare in avoriaz today as well. Fortunately it seems no fatalities.

[img] ?oh=4888a2d433cb5d58d9d0e75d81347181&oe=57042C0B[/img]

Les Deux Alpes.
Big avalanche. School group.

Jeebus - been there with the kids for the past two years. We wanted to go again this year but couldn't afford it. 😯

Bellecombes is a very central area with black, red and blue runs.

http://www.2alpesnet.com/maps

Big avalanche in Tignes today, off the side of Trolle into the lake right in view of all the people in the main staging area. Helicopter and rescue teams attended but current reports suggest no one killed. A salutary lesson to all those who think "side country" is a thing; it's either piste, or it's off-piste and you need the appropriate knowledge.

More on the Les Deux Alpes slide on the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35303921

Sound like the were off-piste, possibly "side country" as Rio says. 🙁

on the subject of board bags - if space is really critical take off your bindings and strap your boots into them. they fit in r the boot pockets and leave the centre section of the bag void.

Good plan! ^^ 😀

That's the kind of thing muppets like me never think of! Cheers.

Also fill your boots too - mine usually get stuffed with my tools and socks.

Also, fill your boots. Literally!

*Edit - great minds, Graham! *

Boot[b]ies[/b] more like it.

From the news it now sounds like those French kids were on the Bellecombe black piste (which was closed). From memory it is a bit of a channel in parts, not a good place to get caught (if such a thing exists). 🙁

Ickle tiny weeny feets!

ned i'll keep an eye out for ya. We'll be a bunch of muppets that think we know what were doing but probably look bad!

Had just been reading that, Graham. Closed piste. FFS.

I guess the key question now is was it marked closed - I'm assuming yes in which case FFS+1.

Grauniad has some details: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/schoolchildren-caught-up-in-avalanche-in-french-alps

No idea what a school group was doing on a closed black piste, though it sounds like they were "experienced" skiers as their school do regular Wednesday ski trips!

The possibility of missed (or missing) warnings signs was raised in the article. That's [i]possible[/i] I suppose.

Avi risk was "only" a 3 out of 5. 🙁

the school kids were in a sport etude section , meaning that they were all skilled skiers .
2 kids confirmed deceased and 1 more person with no connection to the group caught in the avalanche also killed .

a sport etude section , meaning that they were all skilled skiers .

If, and I stress IF, they ignored markings that the piste was closed, sadly irrelevant.

I know I'm jumping to conclusions without all the facts, but it's the same as last year. No snow followed by big dump = no stable snow pack.

yep , the teacher is seriously injured but life not in danger so should be able to explain .

Awful to read about all those caught in that avalanche.

FunkyDunc: Henry (of Henry's Avalanche Talks) said exactly the same thing about the Avoriaz slide today. Big dump on no real base with little time to consolidate.

Avalanche deaths. We saw this today and I was surprised a school group would be on a closed run, my wife (French) says it seems a good bet they where a class, quite probably a school or Lyon area ski race team. As Graham says they ski on Wednesday afternoons. EDIT french tv (bfmtv) has report online saying the slope has been closed all season

Friends out in Peisey-V posted some lovely pictures today as did @stevo from White Room.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

It was glorious at Cairngorm today. Sunshine, no wind and ride(almost)anywhere powder snow across the hill.

Ok. I am (as is my wife) a mediocre snowboarder - mainly cruising red pistes with our feet on the ground. I'd love to be better but I don't have the time to do more than a week away each year. For the same reason I'm not going to be doing split boarding to the middle of nowhere - much as that appeals.

However yesterday's events have focused the mind - two on piste (ok one piste st least was closed) avalanches in mainstream French resorts.

I do love playing down the edges of the piste (fresh, soft, powdery if possible is what I really enjoy) and our elder son is skiing the clean parallels on black and off piste lessons this year - he's nine and will be doing things that scare me as a father in a year or two.

So the question is should I be thinking about getting some knowledge about when just not to bother doing that little bit of interesting snow between two pistes, or in and out of that gully? And should I be thinking about how I get my son the knowledge of what is safe(ish) and what isn't before his skill gets to a level where he can go places I can't?

Am I overreacting, or just sensibly seeking knowledge that I hope never to need to use?

And what books, videos, courses are worth doing? I'm thinking more of a when not to bother type thing rather than a how to go out off piste and be able to survive an avalanche thing (not that there is any guarantee with the latter).

IGM, Stick with it, if you aren't going more than a few meters of piste, you should be okay. If you start to get more adventurous and going further afield, go with a guide and get some training.
Everyone starts off skiing / boarding off piste by skiing what you describe. Keep is simple, don't stray too far, don't go off on your own, keep an eye on the conditions and the weather. Ask lots of questions and discuss with the other people you ski/board with.
I would look up Henry's Avalanche Talk, he does a tour in the Autumn in the UK.
Some good stuff in his talks.
Most of my understanding about where and when to ski or not ski has come from skiing with better more experienced people than me and from being with guides and asking LOTS of questions. I am not an expert though.

I do love playing down the edges of the piste

The thing is you can't (or rather shouldn’t) do this if the piste is closed. If you stick to the sides of open, in bound pistes you are very unlikely to come unstuck. If you have any intentions of ducking ropes, ignoring signs or heading off into the back country you definitely need to get some training and some kit.

For me, unless you are very experienced or you've spent the whole season in one location so you know the snow conditions inside out you probably want a guide anyway. (But maybe that's me being over cautious.)

Someone more experienced will be along, if they haven't already by the time I write this but... (Edit: they have 😉 )

I had a similar awakening just a couple of seasons ago as we started to venture more and more into "slackcountry" off-piste and I decided I should really have a better idea what I was getting myself into.

The short answer is that there is no quick [i]"should I shouldn't I"[/i] guide, but an awareness of things like terrain traps, avi reports, wind loading, signs of slide activity etc will help you avoid some stupid mistakes and will might also mean you appreciate the mountain a bit more and the folk who work to keep you safe.

For my part I read these books:

[img] [/img]

"Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" is the one most people recommended - if nothing else it is a very good eye-opener to how much you don't know (and how much even the leading professionals don't know) as well as how much effort you need to put in to learn these things. It's 300+ pages of pretty dense reading though, goes into a LOT of detail and is really aimed at someone who does this regularly (e.g. it recommends examining the snow every day through a season, which is kinda hard if you only go for a week once a year).

"Avalanche Essentials" is a summarised version of the first and is a lot shorter but obviously lacks some of the depth.

The Circerone "Avalanche!" book was about as close as I saw to a ready-reckoner rule-of-thumb "Should I go?" book. It is very short but has a summary of very basic risk assessment and what to do.

I also joined [url= http://www.henrysavalanchetalk.com/ ]Henry's Avalanche Talks[/url] and actually found some good YouTube videos too.

[b]The most important thing to realise is that none of this means shit![/b]

Personally I don't think knowledge can ever be a bad thing by itself. It is how you use it that matters. BUT if you read this stuff and decide you know everything now and duck the fence into the backcountry then you are worse off than before. However if you read it and you are honest with yourself then you know you have barely scratched the surface. You've gained some interesting book knowledge but zero experience. You'll know if you want to take it further.

For me my next step was to buy a shovel, probe and Avalung backpack (I'm still just borrowing or renting a beacon for now, but that's on the list). And then spend time practising with them all.

Ortovox do a free booklet that's quite good for some basic info too. I'm doing a week's ski touring course which obviously includes stuff about avalanche safety but even that will just be scratching the surface really.

If you stick to the sides of open, in bound pistes you are very unlikely to come unstuck. If you have any intentions of ducking ropes, ignoring signs or heading off into the back country you definitely need to get some training and some kit.

Agreed.
There is a location element though. Each resort can be different.

For example, in Serre Che there's lots of unpisted in bounds stuff, but if you try between pistes like Col du Vent and Yret things might get interesting.

Thanks guys.

Roughly what I thought so far.

Sounds like what I need is actually a "how to pick an experienced and sensible guide with a good empathy for his clients abilities" guide.

In addition to the essentials stuff above.

Generally I learn these sorts of things fairly quickly and I work in an environment that's all about risk assessment and safety, but you only have to get it wrong once and I've already been told off by a snowboard instructor for turning too hard off piste and causing the snow to give way under me - just under the board, not triggering anything, but on a different day I guess that's a bad thing, right?

@igm, the recent events should act to focus your mind, the mountains can bite. Playing around the edge of a piste (red or blue) in fresh snow is how we all got started "off-piste" one turn in the powder one back on the piste. Generally this is very safe. The photo I posted above is from a closed piste in Peisey this week, closed I imagine as it hadn't been pisted rather than a danger? The Les 2A piste was shut as it was under a steep slope which could avalanche as we've seen. The last fatality I am aware of in Verbier was on a pretty flat link road/piste but inwas under a steep slope. It was shut but its a verybuseful link so someone was tempted, the slope above slipped and they where killed. The width of the avalanche on the road was just 20m but that was enough.

Skiing or boarding off-piste is one of the great joys of the sport. Get some lessons and/or a group guide and enjoy.

If you stick to the sides of open, in bound pistes you are very unlikely to come unstuck.

Although that is [i]mostly[/i] true and is definitely what most people do to start with, Henry is fond of using this photo to illustrate that "next to a piste" is still "off piste":

[img] [/img]

(The people rubbernecking are on the piste)

Here's another one of the sort little piste-side gully that people decide to have a go at:

[img] [/img]
([url= https://www.facebook.com/HenrysAvalancheTalk/photos/a.559236574130888.1073741827.144067082314508/758168260904384/ ]Source[/url])

Luckily the snow wasn't too deep there. You can see the loaded snow near the top.

Ortovox do a free booklet that's quite good for some basic info too.

Free online stuff too: http://www.ortovox.com/safety-academy-lab/avalanche-basics

@igm, get working on your technique a bit and just book something, you don't have to able to board steep black pistes to go split boarding, not everything is death defying. Steeper stuff in deep snow can be easier to ski/board than a piste as the snow help slow you / control your speed. I've used many companies over the years, Piste to Powder in St Anton and TDM in Val d'Isere and European Snowsport in Verbier are three of my favourites. All do 1/2 day, 1 day, 3 day type intro to off-piste. I mention these as you can browse the websites. The hardest part of off-piste is if you do one holiday a year you might not get fresh snow and then you just don't get to practice.

As an aside have at look at @stevo's White Room Chalet, Ste Foy is a great resort for you/family as lots of little options off piste and one or two 1/2 day trips you could do to get a feel for off-piste boarding. Not a resort of miles and miles of pistes but when the snow is good it's a gold mine and the powder doesn't get skied out in 1/2 a day by 1000's of skiers. It would be a good place to spread your wings a bit I think. 30 mins in car to Les Arcs/Tignes for a change of scenery.

I've already been told off by a snowboard instructor for turning too hard off piste and causing the snow to give way under me - just under the board, not triggering anything, but on a different day I guess that's a bad thing, right?

Next daft question. No trees in any of the shots so far - are you generally (promise not to sue if I die from duff advice here), generally safe around / amongst trees (woods that is, not a lonesome pine)?

V sad news and there were several incidents across the Alps yesterday

jambas - I know that area in the photo and skied it in similar conditions a couple of years ago. Tendency to assume that it is low risk, but not the case sadly

I shuddered when I heard this story and it reminded my of two Xmas' ago when we skied the closed Jerusalem piste in the 3V here times in row. Great fun but stupid 😳

In the 80s we used to ski off piste with Mark Warner guides the whole time. Crazy to look back on. Having said that I have also been in some very hairy positions with professional guides.

I was meant to be skiing this week but had to cancel for work reasons. On Tuesday I was feeling bad about the powder reports but felt nervous about the Avalanche risk. Sad premonition.

Stay safe folks

Jambalaya - Stevo's place is already bookmarked for future years. Our nine year old would be fine there now, but our 5-on-Saturday younger one needs his rest in the afternoon still so me are a little limited. Currently using Ski Famille and the PdS area at Easter. Last year fresh snow was available but it was pretty wet. Other years have been better.
2017 half term is already booked (do I get a prize for earliest booking) after which our youngest will have 3 years of lessons plus Xscape behind him and at the age of 7 we might take him somewhere more like Stevo has. His older brother would probably kill for it now.

Jambas, the guided trip I referred to was v interesting as he noted that I was too aggressive in my jump turns early in the day. We spent some time practicing very, very soft jump turns

"Comme un papillon THM, Comme UN papillon" - try not to break the snow (??) ten very soft turns, stop, review, ten more.

It was a great lesson - people are often far too aggressive in powder. When we are in a very dodgy couloir later the advice was particularly important. Never skied so softly in my life - "Doucement THM, doucement!"

As I understand it (not an expert as explained above) trees are a mixed blessing.

Dense trees can form good anchor points, especially if they are evergreens with their branches frozen into the slab, so they can lower avi risk, BUT they also present dangers: obviously you don't want to get tossed into trees by an avalanche, that's a bad day, but you can also get stuck (and die!) in tree wells, and that's also a bad day (tree wells are responsible for 20% of ski deaths!)

http://www.deepsnowsafety.org/

Don't mention tree wells!!!!

re you generally (promise not to sue if I die from duff advice here), generally safe around / amongst trees (woods that is, not a lonesome pine)?

Skiing/Riding in the trees [i]can [/i]be marginally safer than open areas, but apparently the trees actually need to be pretty close for it to be 'safe' - as they are a potential 'terrain trap' and a slide in the trees is more likely to cause injury or death from trauma

Don't mention tree wells!!!!

Tree well!

(Do not watch if claustrophobic)

THM - that sounds about right in fact I think butterflies may have been mentioned.

He was encouraging me (I think)!to turn earlier and on a more open radius, to keep the speed more constant rather than running straightish then turning to slow. Big wide open 'S's. As little drive in the turns as would get me round. Graceful, flowing, elegant.

I'm a 44 year old 16st former rugby player. Ever seen a 16st butterfly? Thought not.

My (rather more delicately built) wife was doing far better than me.

if you aren't going more than a few meters of piste, you should be okay.

Stay safe out there everyone.

I was reading dat and tinking, I used to go dancing at the crossroads by Tree Wells - there was a legend about tree farmers who owned the land but couldn't decide on where to site a well. So they just built tree.

So, thanks, that's a new one for me. I have to confess, I would not relish the claustrophobia of getting caught somewhere like that. 😯

Not too far apart then igm!!

Even in simple basic off piste, people try too hard and are too aggressive. OP skiing is much, much easier IMO than on piste as you have do to so little. People make it far too complicated

Skis and body pointing down hill from the outset (fall line), do not start in traverse position

Arms high and wide

Very gentle and slow up and down motion

Err, that's it. Enjoy.....lovely smooth Ss right down the fall line 😉

In Canada the general rule of thumb is that if the trees are spaced far enough apart for good skiing then it can avalanche and when it does you're now being carried through a place with hundreds of baseball bats.

Having said that open areas have more opportunities for the snow to slab up due to wind and so in general alpine areas are more exposed than treeline and below.

Grahams second photo is also a good example of a terrain trap when a small slide has then accumulated in one spot and you end up buried even deeper.

However there really aren't any rules of thumb and avalanche forecasting is a life long job - which is why guides exist.

GrahamS book recommendations are spot on. And if for some reason you find Bruce Temper to be light and engaging (I didn't find it too bad to be honest) than you can always try The Avalanche Handbook

exactly 1 year ago today I was snowboarding in some REALLY tight trees in Japan. got to be confident in your turning but damn, was that fun.

http://www.france24.com/en/20160114-teacher-held-over-french-alps-avalanche-tragedy?dlvrit=65413

Teacher in Custody over avalanche incident

Got caught in plenty of tree wells, though thankfully not too deep and i could pull my way out, still REALLY hard work. One year in Soll we (I) read a path so bad that we had to belay each other out (proper boy scout me with Para cord), took 2 hours to reach the piste.

A point perhaps worth emphasising:

North America - 'tree runs'/glades etc within the ski area boundary will have been assessed by Ski Patrol

Europe - any non-pisted area with trees will most definitely be 'off-piste' therefore you should only be skiing/riding there if you know what you are doing and/or are riding with people who do e.g. appropriately qualified instructor/guide

..took 2 hours to reach the piste.

Impressive!

Four years ago we were just getting into off-piste stuff and we were exploring the "slackcountry" in Schladming. We stupidly went to play in the woods, alongside the piste, which was great fun for a bit.

Then we got flat stuck in a little gully and had to hike out. Despite the fact we could see the piste from the trees is still took us the best part of an hour to dig ourselves out and escape through the baw-deep snow.

Quite an eyeopener.

I caught some of that little adventure on this tedious badly-edited video (skip to 1:40) :

Maccy D's not too keen on those toe turns is he?! 😆

Aye, that was his first time off-piste. He wasn't keen.

He likes freshly-bashed icy cordoruoy pistes.
I think he might be a closet skier. 😕

(I cringe at my erm... "technique" in that video too. I'd like to say I've got a little better since!)

haha @ baw-deep! Looks like fun GrahamS! 🙂

'Course you have. 🙂

Impressive!

board off, carve out a shelf, use a board to step on whilst hte other tethered, use the other board to "dig in" and pull. repeat to fade - the piste was only about 400 meters away. Still being Austria the bar was then not far away so got pissed and did the last 2km down to the resort with torches and randomly spaced lights! I love Austria!

It's always amusing looking back at videos and thinking "crikey - was I really that bad? Thank goodness I've improved in the past few years!"

... and then you see a more recent video and realise that the improvements have been at best, marginal! 🙂

...still ... it's just about the best fun there is trying! 🙂

It's always amusing looking back at videos and thinking "crikey - was I really that bad? Thank goodness I've improved in the past few years!"

... and then you see a more recent video and realise that the improvements have been at best, marginal!

QFT.

...still ... it's just about the best fun there is trying!

Amen to that brother.