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Thinking about it only Spain is post-colonial
Morocco disagrees.
True I've been through that enclave, it's a bit like having UK customs in Calais.
What are you on about, i’m on about their football and their federation
Including the words "football" and "federation" in your post would have helped make that clear. It wouldn't have changed my reply anyhow though I might have posted the first google results
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54453958
My point stands it's not a uniquely Spanish issue and you could replace "Spain" with almost any other country name that also has a far right government which was also one of your points.
Take a trip to Spain, visit the country (edit: not just a British gheto in Torremolinos), meet the people, you might just find it’s more advanced than where you come from in many repsects.
You're not wrong, their drivers are better than the French around cyclists!
What are you on about, i’m on about their football and their federation,
Really?
Sounds good, if Spain hasn’t had a huge issue with racism over and over again, and corruption over and over again, like the previous post i made, i can’t see them doing much in the long run
It's a bit of an eye-opener hearing the mouth-breathers on the radio phone-ins basically arguing that a woman doesn't have the right to withhold consent from being kissed, it's just something they'll have to put up with if a man wants to do it to them.
I mean, it's always been obvious that such people exist, but surely they didn't use to get such a lot of air-time.
In the original post earlier, was meaning the likes of the Vinicius Jr and so on, i've seen teams walk off the pitch in La liga due to it in recent years, and the usual derogatory stuff throughout, the Spanish football authorities have just paid lip service to it, as they'll do to this, big talk, little action.
So argee - do you think she should have just accepted being sexually assaulted?
You seem to be arguing against her making a complaint. What would you have had her do?
personally I think she should have slapped him.
The treatment of Vinicus jr by some fans is odious, of course that sort of racism never happens in the UK - of course it does!
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-48093032
https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/fan-banned-monkey-chants-326936
Classic pot kettle black.
Football has it's demons and no one country has a monopoly, Britain used to hold the high ground on the hooliganism front but eventually other nations, notably Russia, rose to the the challenge. The Hungarians have been doing pretty well on the racist chant front of late.
Sexism is something the whole of the sport has to work on and progress has/is being made which is why it's so important that the Spanish women's team stand their ground and Mr kiss gets shown the door.
personally I think she should have slapped him.
I think her response has been perfect, that's why she is being taken seriously and is supported by so many. Dignified and firm beats violence.
The whole governing body appears to be unhinged and have no grasp on reality.
This is totally normal for FAs and FIFA and sports governing bodies generally. There is a disproportionate number of chancers and weirdos and thickos at the top.
I think her response has been perfect, that’s why she is being taken seriously and is supported by so many. Dignified and firm beats violence.
I agree, sit back and watch the fireworks!
The Womens world kicky ball cup has done a lot for sport. I know nothing about 'kicky-ball' or sport in general but this is an an excellent opportunity, And I think the british and spanish players are playing the hand very well in the face of dodgy managers and , let's face it, a corrupt system.
More Power to them IMO.
Agreed that "the act" was bad enough, but the response is worse, because it speaks not only to an environment where this sort of thing is tolerated by the leaders, but that the women speaking up should just pipe-down and be grateful for their opportunity. It's shone a light on their institutional misogynism - including the normalization of what is sexual assault.
Yes - this is a witch hunt, but this bloke seems to be an actual witch.....soooooo?
Seems to me like the Spanish women's team has been trying to be heard about this kind of thing (and generally being treated very poorly) for some time now, and have been ignored, belittled, gaslit etc by their leaders in response. They've just done it again, on the biggest imaginable world stage - in front of the TV cameras, and the players find themselves with a platform to try to shine a light on this shithousery, and they are doing it in a very effective and dignified way. More power to them.
As for "white knighting" - personally I'd like to see more of those involved in the men's game in Spain weighing-in. Not because their opinion is valid to me/you - but I suspect that it's only at that point that heads will actually start rolling (which is what's required), and would maybe start to move the needle on a particular demographic's perception of the issue. I don't think this is White Knighting at all, just men responding to a situation that is blatantly outrageous within their sphere of influence and trying to help effect positive change.
The whole thing is getting pretty ugly, and correctly so. I wonder what the UK team has to say about it, they came a close second and could probably shed some well needed non-male perspective on it.
I'd be amazed if there wasn't already a statement drafted and going through review.
Hopefully it won't just be some generic "sexual assault is bad" lawyer statement.
I wonder what the UK team has to say about it
The England team have issued statements saying they stand with the Spanish team and have been very vocal about their disappointment that the behaviour of one idiot bloke* is overshadowing what is a well earned victory, when they should be enjoying what is the highlight of their careers
* They put it slightly more diplomatic Ly than they
So argee – do you think she should have just accepted being sexually assaulted?
You seem to be arguing against her making a complaint. What would you have had her do?
personally I think she should have slapped him.
Again, i've not said that or anything about Jenni Hermosa, i have talked about the outcome, not the actual incident, the whole way Spanish football has been and still is, nothing will change if the decisions are made in-house, they will do the usual, they are only looking at punishments now due to publicity, when that dies down, that's when you see how seriously they take it.
And the racism stuff in the UK, yes, it happens worldwide, but having watched English and Spanish football for a long time, there's been a lot of change in the UK, and not so much in Spain (and Italy), again through lax punishments and so on, that's the reasoning for me saying very little will be done, as this has been the way with other issues.
Apologies for the Daily Heil link, but this is a good article by Oliver Holt on how the Mason Greenwood and Louis Roubiales affairs typify the misogyny of those at the top of football and how completely out of touch they are with the large majority of supporters
https://twitter.com/Ellyce_S/status/1696308533955035553?s=20
Not sure the Greenwood and Rubiales incidents are similar, Greenwoods is way more complex, he's went on to have a child with the woman and live together still, and of course, all charges were dropped, so effectively what do you punish him against, and of course, he's an asset of ManU, they just see money being lost.
I see Rubiales and the Spanish governing body similar to FIFA (remember Sepp Blatter saying women should play in beach volleyball outfits to be more feminine!) and UEFA, the boys networks covering their own backs, he'll be gone, but he'll get a nice package i bet, and when it's all forgotten, back in at some level, probably UEFA or FIFA!
Not sure the Greenwood and Rubiales incidents are similar, Greenwoods is way more complex, he’s went on to have a child with the woman and live together still, and of course, all charges were dropped, so effectively what do you punish him against, and of course, he’s an asset of ManU, they just see money being lost.
Theres a whole discussion about Mason Greenwood on the football thread but as a United supporter I was absolutely appalled that his return was even being countenanced by the club. I don't give a flying **** whether the charges were dropped, I've heard the recordings and seen the pictures and he's a nasty rapey little shit and he should never wear the shirt again. An opinion shared by the large majority of the Clubs supporters
Have you actually read the Oliver Holt article? The way both these affairs have been handled is from exactly the same misogynistic male playbook, portraying them both as the victims. So its a bit off to pin this on Spanish football, when one of the biggest clubs in the Premier League was trying to quietly bring back a man recorded threatening to rape a woman then beating the shit out of her, while the FA sat back and said nothing. Yay for English football and its more enlightened attitude, eh?
As for Rubiales, he's done. Its only a matter of time, but I think he's now too toxic for even UEFA or FIFA to touch and thats saying something.
I've posted the links already on this thread about FIFA. Watch the Netflix documentary on FIFA to see just what a toxic organisation it is. Its staggering!
I think you're out of touch with what's happening in Spain, argee. And ignoring what's happening in the UK.
I haven't seen anything like this in the UK:
International agreements, international friendly match - pretty good stuff.
Edit: which is pehaps why so there's such a storm around Rubiales - hypocrisy. And I've fixed the links
As for Rubiales, he’s done. Its only a matter of time, but I think he’s now too toxic for even UEFA or FIFA to touch and thats saying something.
He's also got a high profile UEFA job presently, so lets see what happens there as well!
suspended from it.
Yep, the silence from UEFA has been deafening
suspended from it.
FIFA has suspended him. Theres not been a peep out of UEFA. Last time I looked Spain was still in Europe but the governing body of European football apparently has nothing to say on the matter. Nothing at all.
Its also worth noting that the President of UEFA didn't actually bother to attend the Womens World Cup final involving two European teams. I think that tells you all you need to know about where they are on all this
As Ian Wright commented at the time
'These are the same people in charge of leading the future of women's football. They don't give a shit!'
Theres not been a peep out of UEFA.
Rubiales is a vice president of UEFA, I don't know why they haven't at least suspended him from that position pending the FIFA investigation.
I wonder what the UK team has to say
🤬😡🤬😡🤬
I thought if FIFA suspended him then thats him suspended from the UEFA job?
I'm actually staggered the hosts for this event or even the Spanish didnt have a PR person backstage prior to the ceremony INSTRUCTING these idiots before they walk out there.... "Now mister touchy feely Spanish personality when the girls come up to you just politely shake hands smile, clap etc and hand over medal....no NOT kiss them...patt their bum...squeeze anything...grab your crotch etc etc....failure to follow our simple etiquette road map will result in public flaming and Career end.
I'm guessing that most of these events and other such spectacles will now have someone to help prevent just this kind of car crash in the future??
The men's world cup had some guy who is famous for pouring salt on meat running around hugging and kissing everyone and celebrating like he was part of the team, the PR in football is a huge part of the problem!
Now mister touchy feely Spanish personality when the girls come up to you just politely shake hands smile, clap etc and hand over medal….no NOT kiss them…patt their bum…squeeze anything…grab your crotch etc etc….failure to follow our simple etiquette road map will result in public flaming and Career end.
Bit of a depressing idea that you might need someone to ask the male dignitaries if they wouldn't mind not sexually assaulting the players. Perhaps we also need someone to remind them not to spit at the ref or beat up the mascots.
Seems their previous manager was dismissed after a player revolt
https://twitter.com/MenInBlazers/status/1696879472945828174
I see they've sacked the manager now with no reason given.
So that leaves them with no manager, no back room staff, 81 players refusing to play and a game in 2 weeks (22nd Sept) but he's still there.
Resigned.
Good. No place for that behaviour in professional business.
Coulda kept his job if he'd immediatelty and plausibly apologised...
Or at least quietly resigned with a bit of dignity, and after an apology probably re-emerged in a year or so ‘rehabilitated’ in another cushy role
as it is he has ended up utterly toxic. What an an absolute clown..
Coulda kept his job if he’d immediatelty and plausibly apologised…
Worryingly I'm seeing this trend to double down moving from politics and sport to the workplace.
If you mess up, apologise, learn, move on.
(Accepting that this was not a first offence/mustake)
This was only ever going to end one way, but sadly the way this whole car crash has unfolded just perfectly illustrates the attitudes prevalent in ALL the governing bodies of football.
They’re all firmly stuck at some point in 1973. He’ll be feeling like he’s the wronged victim here and there will be plenty of those at the top of the game who agree with him
The point is that he didn't feel any need to apologise, the opinions of the woman simply didn't matter to him or his defenders. He wanted to kiss her, so he did it - that's how his world works. It didn't occur to him that she might have any say in the matter.
This was inevitable, just a matter of time. The real question here though is, is his mum still on hunger strike in a church?
We need to know about his mum!
She surely has buckled and tucked into the bread and wine supply by now, no?