but what size is the array?
should we be putting together a spreadsheet on this?
From memory @lodger ‘s array is one of the largest in this thread - 10kWp split E/W, is that right?
Yes- well remembered.
10kwp
1/3 East, 2/3 West
10kw battery
6kw max inverter capacity
.
managed to get my export sorted out and onto octopus flux
3.9kw south southeast 30 odd degree roof , 10.4 kwh battery
tiny bit of charge off peak to 30% every morning, usually 1-2kwh at most, and discharging down to 65% on peak has been bringing in £5-7 a day now that the lad is at school and there's no one home. quite interested to see what octopus actually work out on their statement
They’re quite dirty up close - apologies for my drone skills…
from a distance they seem fine.
Our upstairs back rooms (south facing) get very warm at times like now. Expect increased insulation in loft would help to limit solar gain from roof through to upstairs room ceilings, but wondering how much of an effect having solar panels on the roof would make?
Found the following comment online:
For the benefit of the panel life and output, we space the panels 100mm (6″) off the roof surface. This creates a perfect forced cooling area as heated air below the panels rises and flows upward as hot air does, and drags in much cooler more dense air. as heat rises, it remains close to the backs of the panels and hardly ever reaches the actual roof surface at high temperatures. The roof tiles are merely warm to the touch, not almost unpleasant to the touch like exposed to sun tiles are.
Is there an optimum install for this kind of issue?
In my experience. Very very minimal difference to internal temperatures
I've a story and a half and we sleep in the roof space. When it's sunny it's hot.
I did however insulate the eaves last winter with super foil and glass wool. And it's not been so wild this year.
Great thinking to use the drone, I'd not have thought the camera could pick up such good detail.
I'm tempted to get up on my roof and clean my panels now - move over Rod Hull!
this popped up on my insta feed yesterday
https://sunology.eu/en-gb/products/sunology-play-kit-solaire?
Now, I'm not really thinking of getting anything like this, but it made me wonder if, and how it works?
I assume it's solar to inverter, then they say, just plug it into a 13 amp socket and you have power 'feeding in'. If it does indeed feed in, I'm assuming it'll only be for the power ring it's plugged into, and will suppliment the demand on that ring, and of course, only in the daytime.
is it really that simple? I didn't think that you could just plug in say, a generator, into your 13A socket to power the ring up?
I've little idea about house electrics, but as it popped up on insta, it may well be BS.
It's not
It is in Germany and France though
Well, the panels are now clean(er) and there seemed to be a period after cleaning where the power generation stayed stable rather than it’s usual past the high point decline, but this could’ve just been sun intensity change at the time.
if it was as seemed, the change would be around 8-10%. They were surprisingly filthy.
I’ll keep an eye on it and report back.
Are there any tools/mega spreadsheets for calculating ROI on panels/batteries? Our new extension has room for a 3kw array, and we are home 5 days out of 7, using power. I imagine that with a touch of optimisation (schedule washing machine and hot water tank for the days we're out etc), that a no battery option would export a small enough amount of power to make the economics of a battery not worth it (I'd probably want a 200% ROI over 15 years to be worth the faff),
General rule of thumb is annual generation is = kWp of the array, so 3kWp =3000kWh/y assuming unshaded, southish facing and above 30deg.
Without a battery, I’d say you’d be lucky to use 2/3 of that even with someone at home most of the time as, outside of summer, you don’t get smooth, regular power generation.
A small battery is probably worth having, especially given the recent drop in prices as it will allow you to make use of a lot more of what you generate.
@5lab. I'm in a similar position (panels but not a massive amount spare). Added to that I can't get paid (again) for the export as I'm on FIT. What it means is I need to "harvest" every kw as I get paid for it regardless.
I couldn't make the numbers on a battery to work so went with a solar diverter into the hot water tank. Not particularly amazing returns to date but hopefully ballpark returns that you'd hoped for - the key being a much maller initial outlay.
Not sure if that helps but thought I'd say where my head went
I’m thinking about switching to octopus agile over flux.
Is there an easy way to automate usage with WiFi plugs or will it take over my life?
Can I automate the input of the inverter interface too so it charges batteries at the optimum time? ( interface is just input boxes for charge start and stop so it won’t do it by itself)
I'm still on flx, still a better deal for me right now
rnning home assistant with givetcp to control my givenergy inverter and predbat to calcualte best charge and discharge times, also works on agile i believe
-We're still on flux, but're charging in the mornings at 50amps to get upto 8-9kWh into the packs during the cheaper periods. If we then export during the day, it's cost neurtal ish and keeps us off mains power until the next morning.
We're spending around £2.50 a day (inc standing charge) but have also exported around 60kWh, so still close to cost neutral. This is just in the last week and was triggered by several really dull days where we only accumulated 8kWh over 3 days! This meant we were drawing power at expensive rates rather than using the battery smartly.
Sticking with Flux here. Charging each night at the cheap rate, sending any modest surplus to grid each 4-7pm slot. Its a simple to understand tariff so I like it.
Mid Sept -march I just charge at night. If I generate anything meaningful I'm happy to export it.
Not set up any peak export from my batteries
Looking for a little bit of advice if I may..
I’m lucky enough to have had my panels installed back in 2011 when the good feed in tariffs were around. I’m looking to add some battery storage to my system but wondered if it affects my generation payment ? I’m currently earning around £2300 a year in generation so don’t want to lose that.
I’ve recently added an iboost to my system so for 8 months of the year the solar panels heat my water tank so has made a nice reduction to my gas usage.
Next stage is obviously batteries to reduce my electricity bills further.
What should I be looking to pay for say a 9.5kw battery system ? Seems a bit of a minefield out there at the moment. E-on for example are quoting £9000. Assuming this is the higher end of the scale being a big business and offering incentives such as 0% finance bumping up the price ?
Also do we think there will be any schemes such as the ev tariffs for over night charging coming for people with solars and batteries? It’s very unlikely there will be an ev in my household at least in the next 5 years but would be nice to do some cheap over night charging when the solars haven’t filled up the batteries
I’m looking to get something setup for Easter time next year so time to start getting the wheels rolling
Thanks all!!
I don’t think it will affect your FIT as you’re not changing the generation capability of the system, are you? No new panels?
The cost of the battery install will depend on if a new inverter is required. Even so, £9k seems quite high to me. A new inverter is £1500 and a 10kWh battery would be ~£5k and the install should be both easy and fairly cheap. I’d say £7500 Inc VAT for battery, inverter and install would be my ballpark.
They’re quite dirty up close – apologies for my drone skills…
Is your local window cleaner on the ball and up to date? 😀
Thanks for the reply. I’m assuming I’ll need a new inverter. I suppose the display will still record what has been generated and I’ll add it to the closing figure of the old unit when it gets removed.
Winrya, I'm in a similar position to yourself. I couldn't caculate a reasonable payback on the battery but did look at my FiT administrators T&Cs and see a clause saying that I must notify [i.e. the key being not "ask"] them if I add a battery. Your call if you do, as I'm sure plenty apply the logic of let sleeping dogs lie but my view is that they have no right to say no and I wouldn't want to get kicked off FiT on a technicality.
Are you sure you have enough excess to warrant both the solar divertor and a battery? - sorry to ask as I appreciate everyone's situation is different but I haven't
£9,000 seems a lot considering that the only work required is to replace the inverter and connect up the batteries, as you've already got a grid and solar connection in place. The only issue I can foresee is if the inverter is in the loft, as you won't necessarily want 9 kWh of battery over your head.
I'd be tempted to find a local installer. To be honest I'm a bit surprised that the Government is prepared to slash green subsidies but is keeping the FIT payment scheme going, but I suppose many of their cronies invested early on in the bigger schemes.
I’m looking to add some battery storage to my system but wondered if it affects my generation payment
I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure it will affect your FIT payment.
Under the terms of the agreement you are not allowed to make any changes to your system - so you can't just change the inverter,
my view is that they have no right to say no and I wouldn’t want to get kicked off FiT on a technicality.
I'd say it's not a technicality at all, surely adding batteries is not allowed as that would consume power that you would have exported (and you are being paid on an assumed 50% export of total generation).
Happy to be proven wrong but it's a pretty big risk that I'm happy for you to take - I'm keeping my system as it was installed but may add another separate one as that would be fine.
winrya - We were in a similar situation, and added battery storage on the 'house side' of all the feed in gubbins so didn't make any changes to the solar system for the purpose of the FIT. - Its a bit less efficient that charging directly from the solar inverter, but we didn't want to risk losing the FIT. - Clearly you have to check your own Ts & Cs.
@Flaperon. The FiT scheme is now closed to new applications. Existing FiT schemes have a contract to be paid for 25 years so the government have no say over the matter.
@sharkbait. It's a fair point, I couldn't get payback to work on either a battery or a new array so no risk here.
so the government have no say over the matter.
Just change the law and be done with it? FIT is basically a spectacular bung to the richest in society.
Has Intelligent Octopus with Solar and Storage been done yet.
Import rate is 7.5p
Export rate can move from SEG 4.1p to 15p on this tariff.
Depending on EV mileage and efficiency a net zero bill for home and ev is possible
I even discharge any remaining stationary into the grid before the cheap period.
Happy days!
Just change the law and be done with it?
OK.
Has Intelligent Octopus with Solar and Storage been done yet.
Import rate is 7.5p
Export rate can move from SEG 4.1p to 15p on this tariff.
Depending on EV mileage and efficiency a net zero bill for home and ev is possible
I even discharge any remaining stationary into the grid before the cheap period.
Happy days!
With announcements such as Octopus launching thier own heat pumps as well, is the next step a really tightly integrated and smart home energy management system which 'talks' to all the energy production, storage and use devices in the home?
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/solar-panel-price-fossil-fuels-energy-b2418124.html/blockquote >
I really dislike these assessments. Whilst the panel price has dropped and the cell price has dropped. The cost of labour has gone up and this is by far the biggest largest cost of installing the array. Materials for my array were £3k, but the installed price for the array was close to £11k (In roof so £2k more). Battery costs for solar haven't really dropped. You're still generally looking at £0.5k per kWh of storage. Labour on a big array might be cheaper, but for houses.It's now looking like a 10y breakeven point.
<p style="text-align: left;">Just climbed up for a closer look and the panels are pretty grubby. Looking online for telescopic poles etc. Was going to get a water-fed one that can also dispense soap, but could be a lot cheaper just to get a squeegie on a pole and only do it in heavy rain? Anyone have a recommendation? 
</p>
Thanks for the replies guys. Looks like I best dig out my t&c’s. I don’t want to break the contract as the generation payment will be worth a lot over the next 13 years. I’d be happy to lose my export money as they only pay me 4.82p per kw currently (for an estimated 50% of my generation) but my generation earns 69p per kw and rises to £1.22 per kw by the end of the term.
I’ll also checkout some reviews of local companies and get some prices and go from there. It should be an easy install everything is inside the garage with plenty of room for a couple of batteries
I bought this from Amazon [url] https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BL7DV5RW?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1 [/url] Which I connected to my pressure washer and foam dispenser...it worked okay from the ladder, but was bloody heavy and unwieldy and not particularly good from that position. In the end I went up to the ridge with the thing and worked from the top down. That worked much better and I actually felt safer.
FWIW - I'm definitely getting more power after cleaning them. Even at this time of year, we're now regularly cracking 5kWp whereas before it was stopping at 4-4.2kWp even in periods of intense sun. .
Well, September is done. 5.5kWp array, south facing, in the SW with 20kWH of battery storage.
521kWh generated, 215kWH exported, 124kWh imported.
I started force charging for up to 3h a night in mid September to keep us off the peak rates.
My numbers have us at breakeven/neutral including the standing charge, but it could be a few pounds in our favour.
Total for the year to date is 4856kWh.
Morning,
Quick question, has anyone who has an existing solar installation with FIT payments had another solar installation with SEG. Can you have both if they are two separate installations?
Thanks
Can you have both
I looked into it and the clear answer was No. The constraint is the MPAN, you only have one per property and that's been used up on the FIT. When you go to apply for your SEG on the 2nd/new array it'll get rejected for that reason.
I heard whisper of someone somehow getting a 2nd MPAN to get round this but couldn't see how that was feasible. I decided I couldn't drive payback on a 2nd array regardless so just dropped it
September Numbers:
Production: 725
Export 493
Import 360 (150 of this was hot water, 210 was charging the battery)
We only imported during the flux off peak period so average cost per unit was about 19p
We sold at an average of about 22p so I think that leaves us with about £13 after standing charge.
(10kw peak, E/W split, oxfordshire, 10kwh battery)
The new rates are lower and now we are hardly exporting anything most days during the 4-7 peak, the average price per unit sold will drop a lot. Yesterday it was ~17p for both so I'll probably use the diverter to put excess into the water tank instead of heating it overnight. Next month, we'll have to start thinking about putting the heating on and the buffer we've built up over the summer will get used up pretty quickly i fear.
I spoke to octopus about what other tariffs were available, but the only other smart tariff they would put me on was agile - all the others need an EV.
Agile prices are pretty good at the moment, but over winter i'm not sure how much of the time they'll be below the cap.
Ok so my export wasnt setup until a few days in to september on octopus flux import export
3.9kw panels south facing, 10.2 kwh battery, controlled by predbat charging off peak and maximising peak discharge. Using 7-10 kwh a day
so my import bill runs 25th august - 27th September
Export 2nd September - 27th september
total import 103.7kwh at an average 18.46p/kwh - total cost inc standing charge £36.40
total export 417.1 kwh at an average 23.39p/kwh - total export £97.57 - this sounds very high so i wonder if since its the first export meter reading it has taken all of the previous un metered export
Flux is still much stronger for me that my calculated agile pricing
and so it begins 🙁
The shading from the trees local to me is starting to have a significant impact. It pains me every time i see this a without it it would cover my usage
Has anyone looked at, or done, the fitting of inset solar panels to an existing roof?
We live in a really windy area, Im quite keen on solar as I think in the medium/long term its the economic way to shift us off Oil and on to ASHP (house is a mid 00's stone build, fairly well insulated but no underfloor heating, so we'll never be a super efficient modern home). I've been quite taken at how much pricing has reduced on solar in the last couple of years, a 7kwh array and Tesla power wall is now coming in around the £12k mark.
a 7kwh array and Tesla power wall is now coming in around the £12k mark
That seems very fairly priced. I’d have expected Power Walls to be about £11,000 alone now but see they’re <£8,000 with a quick google.
@prettygreenparrot yeah, they’re coming down a lot. You have to add scaffold etc on to there, but it’s a different world of pricing versus even 18 months ago
Has anyone looked at, or done, the fitting of inset solar panels to an existing roof?
We're just about to - unusual roof design meant that adding a few hundred kilos of panels wasn't the best idea so we're going for an in roof system. It's made more complex by us not having any felt under the tiles so as we're taking most of the tiles off anyway we decided to strip the whole side, add felt then add the panels. That meant getting a roofer to quote for the sarking work and for them to be happy to work with the solar installers but I think we're there now and have the roofer and solar installer coming this afternoon to finalise dates. Hopefully early Dec install, 4.8kwp array (West facing), 9kwh givenergy battery. Cost is around 10% more than standard on roof install.
@thepurist thank you. That’s really interesting. We have a really weird thing where the felt was laid wrong/wrong weight of felt for clay tiles so when it’s windy it flaps and is really annoying. Part of me is thinking to take this opportunity to fix the felt and then lay the solar at the same time.
Hi, does anyone on here have Huawei solar equipment? In particular the inverter and battery setup?
I'm currently experiencing a few issues firstly with the Fusion Solar app ( intermittent loss of data ) and now unscheduled forced charging of the batteries up to full. The latter obviously is of most concern as it's costing me money, but also is it pointing to some serious software issues with the inverter?
Unfortunately my installer went bust last year ( system is only 15 months old) so no help there, but Huawei Europe are proving almost impossible to get help or an answer out of.
Can anyone recommend a northern based installer with Huawei experience?
andy @footflaps is using huawei kit . IIRC he got them to give him full control and then put it on Home assistant as the software wasnt great.
^^ this seems similar to the givenergy stuff... the software control is absolute pony and the real solution is controlling it yourself
this seems similar to the givenergy stuff… the software control is absolute pony and the real solution is controlling it yourself
Tell me more... What issues did you have with the givenergy sw and what's the alternative?
My array is inset and was done for weather proofing, looks and nesting birds. It cost around £2k more than standard.
The Givenergy software, on my gen 3 inverter
has a smart tarrif automation setting, which reads the octopus tarrif api to get pricing, and solcast solar prediction.. description says it aims to charge by solar and mains to be at 100% before peak time, in reality it does some random charge discharge cycle overnight, givenergy basically told me it doesnt work. I saw a video saying it was in development.
other bugs, setting a max charge or discharge value, it baiscally gets disreguarded, and also does not resume eco mode afterwards, ie doesnt feed the house..
working solution is to use octopus R&D labs to control charging nad discharging.. works ok as long as theres no connectivity issues
real working solution is home assistant on a local server with givetcp and predbat, which calculates the required off peak charge, and can also do the max on peak discharge while keeping enough power to feed the home
Thanks @alan1977 - as I posted above we're having a givenergy battery and inverter installed so it's useful to have some first hand experience.
If you want reliable, configurable and real time data I would suggest setting up a Raspberry Pi and installing Home assistant.
Well I don’t think we will be getting much solar today… jeez it’s grim out there.
So far in October we have generated c90% of what we used (217 generated solar vs used 238kWh).
Anyone on luxpower. Having issues with their webapp.
Hi, does anyone on here have Huawei solar equipment? In particular the inverter and battery setup?
I’m currently experiencing a few issues firstly with the Fusion Solar app ( intermittent loss of data ) and now unscheduled forced charging of the batteries up to full. The latter obviously is of most concern as it’s costing me money, but also is it pointing to some serious software issues with the inverter?
Unfortunately my installer went bust last year ( system is only 15 months old) so no help there, but Huawei Europe are proving almost impossible to get help or an answer out of.
Can anyone recommend a northern based installer with Huawei experience?
It's very easy to take control of your own system and become admin.
You need two things, to become Admin of the inverter which just requires a reset (in the manual). You power down the battery and inverter in a certain sequence and then on power up after which you have something like 5 minutes to become Admin when you log in via the iPhone app. Once you have the Admin password set you can now log in and change settings yourself etc.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53281332657_7c321a2ba0.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53281332657_7c321a2ba0.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2pbhKUv ]Reset Huawei Inverter[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
If you want full details via their web interface, you then need an installer account with Huawei to add your system to. You just apply online and they give you one. I then added my system to my installer account and hey presto I have full control, access to all alarms etc via the App and via the Web interface.
The only PITA was I couldn't use my main email address as Huawei lock that to my original installer so I had to use another email address to add me as a customer to my installer account in the Huawei cloud.
Re: intermittent loss of data, I had problems with the Wifi connection, so in the end I bought their CAT-5 dongle online which just plugs into the inverter and hard wired the system to the LAN. Dongle was maybe £65 just bought online. Configuring it with the dongle was very painful until I eventually discovered that if you add the Dongle your system behaves completely differently and the Dongle becomes the main unit and everything a slave off that ie you add the dongle to the account, not your inverter. Completely illogical but that's how it works. Without a dongle, the inverter is the system's main unit and everything else a slave off that.
Huawei Dongle here: https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/huawei-storage/huawei-smart-dongle-wifi-ethernet
Has anyone installed the bird mesh around their panels? I was wondering how much it would cost and any recommendations?
i had it done at install time, i think they quoted it as 250 around 8 panels, but that was obviosuly on the premise the scaffolding and installers were already there and doing it at the same time
I've had my panels up in a pigeon infested wood for 12-13 years and never had an issue, just saying.
Having said that, if I did it now, cost v risk I'd probably do it
I didn't bother and to be honest, if birds want to nest under them, I'm not that bothered.
I'm finally at the point of getting quotes for a solar system. It will be interesting to see how a ~10kw system performs in my part of Australia compared to UK setups.
We have some significant shade issues so held off for years, but are having a look now to see how the improved technology stacks up. Will probably aim for a system that can have batteries added later.
We have electric hot water and appliances plus a pool pump. No heating or a/c. One person working from home 3-4 days a week.
Thanks @Footflaps. I've got admin status, the trouble is the constant dropping out of data transmission. I think I will order a new dongle ( the Lan version is out of the question due to location ) and hope that solves it.
quotes are around 500-600 so far for installation of bird protectors. Thanks for the input everyone
Has anyone installed the bird mesh around their panels?
I've 3 x arrays on two properties that have been there for about 10-12 years and zero birds nesting - I'm not sure it's a thing at all.
If anything I'd be more worried about the mesh restricting air flow under the panels (they like to be cool) and letting stuff like leaves in but not out.
If anything I’d be more worried about the mesh restricting air flow under the panels (they like to be cool) and letting stuff like leaves in but not out.
If that were a real issue, then in-roof solar wouldn't be a thing, would it?
my driving force for having the mesh installed was the whole idea of having nesting birds feet from my head when asleep.. a couple of nights lost sleep i'd be stressed
If that were a real issue, then in-roof solar wouldn’t be a thing, would it?
It's less efficient than panels on top of the roof.
October update - 5.5kWp array, S facing in the SW. 20kWh of battery storage.
397kWh Generated
273kWh Imported
212kWh Exported
We changed the inverter pattern to import at 60A over the 3 hour window for Flux and export through the day as the rate difference is 1p (minus the efficiency loss) and this is less than importing a couple of kW in the peak periods.
Predicted electricity bill for ~530kWh used is £13 + the standing charge.
Running total for the year is ~5400kWh of generation.
10kwp E/W split, 10kwh battery, Flux
444 generated
379 imported (£69 @average cost of 18.3/unit)
238 exported (£46 @ average cost of 17.9/unit)
Net: 586 units cost us £23 +SC
All -electric house. Battery tops up between 2 and 5am, but is not set to export - just for consumption.
Water tank gets a few units at the same time and I have just set the underfloor heating to turn on between 2 and 5 as well. Will be interesting to see how much we can shift to the cheap(ish) window. Demand topped out at 12kW last night and the heating is not really working yet. We'd be better off on Go/Intelligent now, but no EV.
Also - Octopus doing odd things with our bill. Last actual "bill" came on 20th August. Nothing since then. Our account shows 12 separate credits and charges just for september, none of which seems to relate to use or generation. For a short period on the 21st august, our account was £1000 in credit, then a few hours later was down to £400. Hoping its just a glitch not something very wrong with our meter...
Looking for a relatively low cost upgrade to our current situation if that is possible but I think the answer will probably be stay as you are. As above I've looked into expanding the current solar but no dice.
- 5 panel ~ 1.25 KWp system (came as part of the new build so they put in the bare minimum)
- West facing and generated 572 units between 1st April and 12th September
- Currently getting 22p FIT
- PHEV with 30 mile range which is plugged in most nights
- On Agile Octopus as we are retired so can load shift
- LPG heating so heating water is more expensive than mains gas
My thinking is to bin off the FIT and get a small battery setup that can take the solar plus a HA system that can charge the battery when the Agile tariff is low and use when high. Also use HA to check the Agile tariff and use a smart immersion to heat the water when cheaper than LPG.
What will £5k get me?
The only problem with Agile is that it's not regular (as you know) which may cause you problems with battery charging.
Week before last Agile wasn't really much good but since the wind has picked up it's been OK (I'm away ATM but looked earlier and I'd used 51kWh on Sunday at about 4p/kWh!)
@sharkbait thanks for the reply, I may just get a smart immersion and do the hot water. Just need an excuse to get started with HA 🙂
