We just had a quote through where the installer mentioned cutting down the boiler flu and sticking a panel above it...every other installer said there was no chance we could have 9 panels on the roof due to the flu, this nut job said it was fine to remove it as there was no repercussion to it.
Told our gas engineer who installed the boiler and essentially thought I was joking at first as someone cant be that stupid. Told me to run a mile.
He did quote £8k for a 4.2kWh system with a 3.6kw battery - both of the other installers were similar price but with larger batteries and said we'd have to have a south east split between the two roofs. Located in Norwich
Money is now going towards the mortgage repayments 🙁
Longer days so more generation but peak is lower. Is this to be expected, pitch of roof Vs sun position perhaps?
That's flux lowering their import and export prices.
The exports coming down a larger % which will skew things slightly
Still better than basically every other export.
muddyjamesFree Member
Longer days so more generation but peak is lower. Is this to be expected, pitch of roof Vs sun position perhaps?
My system loses quite a chunk of generation due to heat. It’s nominally an 10 year-old 2.25 kw system. In short sharp periods of sunshine I have had 2.4kw out of it, but on longer hot days I get a peak of around 1.8kw.
It doesn’t help that my inverter is in the loft, so that gets too hot as well.
Longer days so more generation but peak is lower. Is this to be expected, pitch of roof Vs sun position perhaps?
the panels will be MUCH hotter which reduces their efficiency. You’ll be losing between 5-10% of peak power (dependent on how they’re installed), especially on days with lower wind, so less convection cooling.
Mine are in-roof and can lose 10% on VERY hot, still days. On roof should be lower losses as air can get underneath.
Damn look to have some kind of issue. Checked the app this morning to find the battery empty. Quick flick through the days shows that generation dropped suddenly to 0 at 3:30 in Wednesday. Battery held out to midday yesterday but now pulling from grid! That the battery discharged suggests the inverter can still produce DC.
I've become aware of DualSun combined solar leccy and water heating panels. Their own website doesn't suggest a large deployment in the UK (French company) but does anyone have any knowledge or experience of them? A forum search didn't return anything to me but I'm bound to have missed something. The marketing fluff seems logical but the reality may be a long way from ideal.
So I have an error code of 18x61 vin buck max at the time production stopped. Sounds rather dead (assuming the text refers to voltage in buck pack). Installer was straight onto logging it with SE and then mentioned 3ishnday response currently and that they (SE) may just supply a replacement. One plus side is we might get to see if the new SE battery management will force charge during the cheap period (assuming it is clever enough to recognise 0 generation).
Silly question, but have you tried turning it all off and then on again after allowing for a discharge period?
I have yes, twice now.
@nixie I tried to fiddle with the new battery profiles in the app but they don't do what I want. I'm sticking with the custom setup i asked SE to do which force charges the battery at 2 am and maximises export in the evening. One thing I cant seem to get it to do yet is to use the battery for house needs during the 1600 to 1900 peak. At the moment if, eg, I put the oven on, the power is diverted from production so export is reduced, but i'd rather it came from the battery, which can be charged later.
Did all Flux users get the news of reduced rates from July? ~10% drop in payments is disappointing but understandable i guess.
@lodger yeah I'm not convinced by the battery control options. I'm going to run with it for a bit then ask SE to do something custom if it does not do what I want. I'm also looking at seeing what I can do with home assistant.
One thing I cant seem to get it to do yet is to use the battery for house needs during the 1600 to 1900 peak.
Is this not a limitation of the invertor. On our setup the inverter can only output 3.6kWh. If the oven or any other device is put on then it will use some of that output and therefore reduce the export. The battery cannot be used to to maintain the export level as the power still has to be converted by the inverter. If our inverter has to be replaced I'm going to try and get a bigger model installed (if they will let me pay the cost difference) and just throttle it. Perhaps then I can relax the throttling at points when we won't be exporting (e.g. when array output is > 3.6 and the car is charging).
Did all Flux users get the news of reduced rates from July?
I did yes.
That makes sense - although there are times/days when we are below the inverter peak (ours seems to be 6) when it might be able to take up the slack.
Did all Flux users get the news of reduced rates from July? ~10% drop in payments is disappointing but understandable i guess.
its not so much the 10% drop in payments - you can live with that when the cost of lecky drops similarly.
but they have closed the gap between import and export slightly at the same time - that sucks
I wonder if it will change again in the autumn. At the moment there’s far more power being generated in Europe through nuclear and renewables than is needed.
I wonder how many people will stay on Flux as we get nearer winter; in summer the high export rate is great, but in winter the import rate matters more, and there are other tariffs with lower night time rates.
Come October or so, when most of our power will come from off-peak import instead of solar, we'll be switching to Octopus Go or something.
Depends on how much storage you have and if you can fill it in the nighttime rate.
We’ll be grid charging the batteries in December and January - the best we can do in the 3 hour window is 11kw, so £2ish a day. That means our maximum power cost in the winter months will be £100, probably less. We’re currently exporting an average of 15kWh a day, so £3 a day at current rates, that’s a net gain of around £500. Even force charging on flux, we should be approaching cash neutral by year end including the standing charge. I think it works for us and should continue to do so.
To my suprise our battery fully charged during the cheap period last night. Not as good as having an fully working system but at least it's taking the sting out of it being down.
With an EV the cut-over for me on Flux will probably be about September. Fortunately I can shuffle across onto Intelligent Octopus.
Overall I’m £240 in credit over the last 30 days on Flux, with a 4.6kW array split east/west. The bulk of the income has been late afternoon on the high rate.
Looks like June with be a record month for solar:
Overall I’m £240 in credit over the last 30 days on Flux, with a 4.6kW array split east/west. The bulk of the income has been late afternoon on the high rate.
East West splits are king on flux. I can't have any west facing panels at the moment :/
East West splits are king on flux.
Definitely west facing. Ours is nearly twice that size but because it's SE facing its output has fallen right off by the time the Flux peak period starts. I keep wondering about adding more panels on the NW facing side so as to generate a bit more later in the day...
Ive had notice of my unit costs decreasing on flux but not my export rate.... whats it dropping to?
Numbers were in the same pdf attachment. This is South coast;
Electricity (Export) Current prices New prices
Unit rate - peak (per kWh) 35.925p 31.413p
Unit rate - flux (per kWh) 9.111p 7.177p
Unit rate - day (per kWh) 22.518p 19.295p
Oh just checked. Im on outgoing octopus so its fixed at 15p
we don't have an EV so most of the other tariffs are off limits at the moment. We would use the off peak hours to heat water and our ruinously expensive underfloor heating as well as putting 10kwh into the battery. we'd preserve the battery for peak-time which would save a few pounds a day, but a couple of units of sun in the daytime wouldn't touch the sides in jan/feb.
A longer off peak would be great for the heating, will see what sort of economy 7 plans there are available. Loss of export payment doesnt matter because there will be no excess.
Figures for June and the half year point.
5.4kWp array, south facing, in the SW. 20kWh of storage.
799kWh generated, 357kWh exported, 14kWh imported.
We’ve determined that we can run the electric shower at an 8kW draw without triggering the grid. Almost an equal split between battery discharge and generation. Nice!
Half Year Figures:
3152kWh generated, 926kWh exported, 649kWh imported.
We’ve only just begun getting paid for export, but had we been getting paid for the full year, we’d be almost cost neutral, but would still have had to pay £84 for the standing charge.
We've had a very disappointing last few days of June, ending with today with the lowest day of production since early April! The longer days made up for it, but June only just beat the much sunnier May.
What has been great though is Octopus Flux... every day since we've been on it our daily bill has been negative, even with charging the car. Hopefully it should continue to be good for another few months before we have to decide when to switch back to a normal off peak rate when generation drops and we start needing heating again.
We’ve determined that we can run the electric shower at an 8kW draw without triggering the grid.
As someone with a battery that will do a mere 2.6kw I am quite jealous...
We are a week and a half down at the moment and that's not going to change till at least the 10th. Very frustrating but nothing I can do about it. Supplier won't fit a bigger inverter if the current one is found to be dead.
I got £300 this month from flux, also with an ev. Only problem is it makes you neurotic about using electricity because you’re paying at least 20p/kWh for it.
I’ve largely stopped worrying about it now. The system seems to be well enveloped and covers 95-97% of our use case without significant thought. Only occasionally when cooking (hob, oven, dishwasher, etc) will I consider and stagger use. In the winter this will likely be more of an issue, but so far, very pleased.
I’m really happy that it looks like the system will generate more in a year than we use and thus has a slightly positive climate effect rather than just a neutral one.
If we ever have the money to replace my aging BMW Touring with an EV, I might have to also consider expanding the system. We have a quote in place to take it to 12kWp, but 50% of that increase would be north facing. By my estimates, that 6.5kWp system would generate about 3500kWh a year vs. 6000kWh from the south facing array.
It’s a far cry from the 14000kWh we’d need currently for heating but might just do an EV and partial heating.
Prices of panels are tumbling - just seen 500W for £150 inc vat.
I've got a flat-roof garage that could take a frame and maybe 6 south facing panels. They'd be sheltered morning and evening though. I'm already limited by the inverter at peak times in the summer so we'd need a new (bigger? additional?) inverter to get the full benefit. However, in the winter, the east-west split of the main array is pretty useless so these could make a big difference. Hard to work out the payback time with so many unknowns.
Anybody had my scenario pls: an existing PV array (on a FIT agreement) where I want to add a 2nd entirely separate PV array? Did it impact your FIT agreement?
The reason I ask is I've had 2 quotes from what appears to be two very competent contractors: Contractor 1 had no issue with this. Contractor 2 said categorically there was no way to have 2 arrays at one property and I would need to come to terms with the FIT agreement being ripped up. Everything I can find online sides with Contractor 1 but wondered if anyone else had this, or can guess at the driver as I don't see that it benefits Contractor 2 to take this stance.
Thanks in advance
you can do it physically - but you cannot have two MPANS
Your new solar would have to feed in past the existing generation meter for the FIT payments.
You wont be able to sign up for SEG payments on the new install as your MPAN is assigned to the FIT payments
ooh just had the total export value to the grid surpass my import valve for the first time since i got the panels. i dont know why this makes me happy but it does.
Also turn down and save on loop coming again but not sure how ill make anything this time as im not using much.
Anybody had my scenario pls: an existing PV array (on a FIT agreement) where I want to add a 2nd entirely separate PV array? Did it impact your FIT agreement?
I'm looking to do this.
You are not allowed to change the array linked to the FIT in any way - i.e. add to it or change panels. But you can have a completely separate array that does not touch the FIT array until after the generation meter. So the generation of array 2 can be fed into the same consumer unit as array 1 as the CU will be after the generation meter of array 1.
I doubt you can claim any payments from a second array - just benefit from the generation. So I would say that installer 1 is correct and installer 2 is kinda correct if he thinks you want the second array to feed into the house before the generation meter of array 1.
Thanks @trail_rat and @sharkbait, amazingly helpful. That's a shame but at least a constraint I can understand and work around (I didn't really expect much exporting anyway). I will put it down to me not articulating myself correctly.
While I have you! 🙂 - any views on installing pre-G99 approval (by throttling the export to below the current permitted limit) just to get the system up and running quicker?
I'm not sure you can do that. I think if the total of your potential panel generation is more than 3.9Kwh (or whatever it is that's allowed regardless) then you must go for approval - I presume your existing array is just under 3.9kwh so almost anything more would require approval.
(Obvs having 2 x 3kwh arrays could potentially put 6kwh into the network in the same way as a single 6kwh array could)
Its the inverter that is the limiting factor G98 = 3.6kw above that G99 is required, not the array. Not sure if its ever checked to be honest. Not so sure clipping is allowed as its easy to override
3.6kwh allowed.
there are fast track approvals though under certain circumstances .
Whos checking and whos knowing ?
Got you, thanks. Filing under "looks too good to be true so...". I'm keen not to put the contractor in a compromised position so will have a bit of patience
It depends on the DNO - SSE wouldn't allow our software constrained export (G98) and even after G99 approval, wouldn't approve the system for export until it was checked over by their own people.
It depends on the DNO – SSE wouldn’t allow our software constrained export (G98) and even after G99 approval, wouldn’t approve the system for export until it was checked over by their own people.
Whereas NPg were quite happy with my 7.3kW plus Powerwall system without any checking or witnessing.
Because I’m a senior manager at NPg (Head of Innovation when I applied, Head of Connections Design now) I kept my name out of the application as much as I could.
I had the installer apply and it went through very easily.
I did have to encourage them to give me the connection agreement for the export which my supplier wanted before they’d give me an export tariff.
Our process is being changed to make it easier (automatic hopefully) for the average customer who can’t just ring the MPAS Registration Manager direct.
Hopefully some of you will benefit from my problemette.
(We do learn and improve)
PS - I have had potential installers walk away from putting PV on my house when they found out I wanted it done properly and I knew what properly meant.
Why is the limit so low? I mean you can pull way more than 3.6 in and I'd assume the kit upstream is designed to handle high loads from a significant number of the end users connections.
It probably phase balancing
Apparently Musk / Tesla will be entering the UK energy supply business with Octopus style tariffs...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jul/12/elon-musk-tesla-electric-supplier-britain
Wonder if Tesla will mind the Universal Supply Obligation, means they have to offer a Price Cap tariff to all including Prepayment customers.. I guess they want to ring-fence this to powerwall customers only?
Meanwhile: I have saved £660 in 6 months with my set up: 4.75kWp, 7,1kWh storage, MyEnergy Zappi, IPACE. Done 10k miles, total cost of elec: £199 home, £151 public charging
@djglover - what is the payback time like on a system like that if you are saving north of £1200 a year?
I guess they want to ring-fence this to powerwall customers only?
They're pretty tiny compared to all the Tesla car batteries, I'm guessing that his what they're aiming at...
Meeting peak loads spikes by discharging 10% of everyone's Teslas at the same time.
@igm it would be interesting if you could summarise some of the ‘done properly’ points?
It seems very difficult to work out who is half decent and correct!
@Matt - sorry dont know how mention..
about 7 years, paid £9988 in January. Assuming some energy price inflation. Installer forecast 3900 kWh generation for the year and already at 2,700.
Bad day for solar in the SW today. I have to go all the way back to March 8th for it to be this poor. 2.5kWh so far today.
win some lose some - all about the averages.
FFS, delayed sorting our solar as been getting a load of other work on the house, went back to it today only to realise the Scottish Government pulled funding for solar & battery a couple of weeks ago!
Still down here. Solaredge can't decide what the problem is 😢. Having to chase lots to get any kind of update.
Oh god, that's not good to say Solar edge seems to be pitched as the premium brand.
It goes to show how sporadic the after support is in the market generally, as if the whole industry seems consumed with installing as much as they can rather than balancing it with a good support network. Just my impression
Yeah it's not ideal. The lack of updates from the supplier is the most annoying bit. Even a call to say no progress would be better service instead of me needing to chase. I'm partially frustrated because I forgot to charge yesterday before their office closed and now have to wait till Monday.
One positive is the battery is charging during the cheap period so we are at least getting some benefit.
@nixie In practice the 3.6kW export limit is mainly due to the voltage rise caused by the export.
The system sits near the top of the allowable voltage range at no load and as demand (lights, cooking etc) is drawn down the system the voltage falls towards the lower limit.
If on a summer’s day your PV is pushing out export and the demand on the system is low then it can push the voltage over the upper limit.
Not always but it needs checking - hence there is a (fairly minimal) design requirement.
PS - if you want we can do the long discussion around ADMD and diversity of PV
@northernremedy - Borders between the edge of the panels and the edge of the roof, avoiding shaded areas, telling / applying to the DNO, discussing the order of the various bits of kit installed and where the CTs were to get the battery, EV chargers and PV to operate in the most cost effective way as well as safely.
That sort of thing.
I’ve found Solis (my inverter) to be very good and easy to contact, but LG - not so great. I’ve been waiting almost 6months for them to address a fault/problem with the battery management system.
Had the surveyor from Solar Together scheme out today, very helpful, answered all my questions, reckon it’s a go-er! Said the install would probably be turned around extremely quickly as well which is good.
The one question that slipped my mind was the possibility of using the battery as a back-up in case of power cut. It’s not a huge deal (we’ve only had 3 all less than an hour in the 3 years we’ve been here) but it would be nice if possible.
I’ve read (on here) that if your inverter is “grid-tied” (which it is - Solis S6) it’s a no-go, but this is at odds with other things I’ve read such as this ( https://www.solarguide.co.uk/solar-back-batteries-power-cuts#/ ) which to me reads that this function is purely a function of the battery? Which would be a Pylontech US3000.
Anyone shed some light?
Solis you can wire up some emergency circuits into the eps.
That's what we have.
You'll need an independent earth and most installers won't do it. It's hassle for them .
Watch your prices as well. Pylon batteries are cheap and prices of everything is coming down. Rapidly at the moment so careful comparing to prices quoted on here.
Panels - 400 watt is down from 250 quid at the start of the year to 140 right now....
Watch your prices as well.
Thanks @trail_rat. Where are you looking for prices of batteries and panels pls?</p>
To be fair, the quotes I got so far aren't even itemised. I'm a little worried that these guys seem so busy they're not even taking calls to quote, let alone negotiating on what they are quoting
Solar trade sales for one.
But you can get a 405 longi panel at city plumbing for 125 inc vat
Can get a pallet of 10 ja solar 405s for 1350 delivered.
Installers on one of the Facebook groups noting that installations have nose dived. I'd be tempted not to be rushed on the matter right now.
Can get a pallet of 10 ja solar 405s for 1350 delivered.
Blimey!
Hopefully this winter I can add a couple of kWp to each of my places
They will both be ground mounted and completely separate from the existing arrays due to the pre-existing FIT agreements.
One will be south facing to compliment the existing E/W split array.
At the other place it will probably be W facing to get more evening production as the current S facing array switches off a little early.
I would be doing most of the work myself (i.e. not the electrical connections to the CU)
this function is purely a function of the battery?
It's a function of the inverter which will switch off as soon as it's connection to the grid is cut.
I don't have any batteries so can't comment on how it can be made to work with batteries.
Between the hot water and electric underfloor we don't really have enough spare production to charge batteries anyway ATM.
completely separate from the existing arrays due to the pre-existing FIT agreements
I'm thinking of something similar. I understand the need to keep the systems separate, but they will both feed the same battery and any exports will go through the same grid connection. Is there some way that you can exclude the FIT export and get SEG on the export from the new system?
AFAIA you can connect the systems after the production meter of the FIT system.
I don't think you can have any other payment if you receive FIT payments though.
I'm not after the money (I get paid handsomely as we're on the original FIT rates) but I would use every watt produced!
Is there some way that you can exclude the FIT export and get SEG on the export from the new system?
@Greybeard. I've got a mail out to Octopus on the offchance but per another thread on here and another on an electrical forum I fear the definitive answer is no. Like @sharkbait says, I also recall that the contractor that came round said the same, it's connected after the original FIT production meter.
You'd think that if you had a 2nd production meter on the 2nd array it would theoretically be possible to report accurately on the export volume of array #2 but as I too anticipate with the right size battery consuming near as damn it everything I generate I'm going to take the loss on the chin.
If I'm honest, I can't afford the quote i've had so far and plan to go thro solar together tendering while waiting 3-4 months to see if prices come down.
Would need 2 mpans
Can't have 2 mpans at one address
Having done some more digging, I think the situation is that if you install non-FIT capacity you can only be paid for export (SEG or supplier) if you give up the FIT export payments. Some sources suggest you'd have to give up the FIT generation payments too but I think that's incorrect.
Solis you can wire up some emergency circuits into the eps.
That’s what we have.
You’ll need an independent earth and most installers won’t do it. It’s hassle for them .
My installer left the connectors that I needed behind. Most of the time they run a double socket directly from the inverter as they already have proven fault detection.
The IET mandate a TT earthing arrangement but don't justify why, especially when you consider that for emergency use an IT configuration is safer.
Some sources suggest you’d have to give up the FIT generation payments too but I think that’s incorrect.
You cannot make any changes to the array that the FIT payments are associate with, this includes changing panels [for more efficient one]. If people were allowed to add capacity without losing the generation payment* then I'm going to borrow and install 2 acres of panels and reap in the payments of 67p/Kwh** they produce as I'll have them paid for in a few weeks!
* I'm fairly sure you can't
** or whatever I'm on at the moment - it's something like that.
Sorry that people have had to reiterate that point btw - I'm not ignoring them but am in the "ask as many people as possible til you get the answer you want to hear" phase 🙂
I suspect it doesn't change my payback/decision making process and to be fair, only 12 odd years of FIT left and then I'll be able to. Sounds odd to say but time flies when you're having fun!
doing a little sanity check
Ive got 6 months to remortgage before i take a big interest hike as my deal ends..
toying with upto 15k extra for a solar plus storage install, 3 bedroom house, using 9-12kwh a day. would be looking at using Agile scheme from octopus, my current supplier
the current ball park on mortgage calcs say it would cost me an extra 130 a month for the 15k, and my last months electricity usage was 80ish. so 50 quid a month as it stands, assuming i can make it generate enough.. which i will do some calcs in a mo
obviously interest rates, and electricity rates will change... mostly talking out loud until i get some quotes under me
I think this would pay for itself plus a little wiggle room.
I got 18x 405w longi panels plus 4x Hanchu batteries (12.8kWh) with AC coupled Lux Squirrel inverters for 15k in Feb this year. From what I read prices are now even better esp on panels?
Since early march I have exported 1000kWh more than I have used and with Octopus Flux am making >£100 a month in may, june, July …. compared with paying £120 a month. Our leccy usage is/was similar to yours, but imminent heat pump will change that!
If you can borrow at a fair rate then it kinda makes sense. Have a look into whether AC or DC coupled makes sense for you. We went AC coupled as though some efficiency loss the flex on drawing lots from battery (7kW) made sense to me.
You cannot make any changes to the array that the FIT payments are associate with, this includes changing panels [for more efficient one].
Yes, agreed. I'm not planning to make any changes to that array, or its inverter.
If people were allowed to add capacity without losing the generation payment then I’m going to borrow and install 2 acres of panels
I don't mean add capacity to the FIT array, I mean add capacity on the same mains connection. Downstream of the FIT generation meters. I know I wouldn't get FIT payments for it, but I've read that if I want to claim export payments for the extra capacity, I would lose all the existing FIT payments. That wouldn't be worthwhile, so if that were the case (which I don't now think it is) I would need to work out the payback on the extra panels assuming I won't get paid for export from them.
