[Closed] The nasty party conference...

Why else vote for them?

It's not as if they've been pretending to be nice all these years.

Tories speaking to the voters that elected them and those who may vote for them in the future.

May's immigration speech deliberately mis-represented here, the Tories want controlled immigration. Then we can take the best and the brightest.

OECD statistics show just 14% of migrants in Europe (on their way to Germany, Sweden etc basically) are Syrians. Over 40% are from the Balkans and Germans have been placing them in camps for immediate deportation.

Cameron and others picked the low hanging fruit that is Corbyn's associations with terrorists and his weakness on defence and security. Corbin has no credible response to this so they'll keep at it.

DrJ people voted the Tories in in part as there was no credible alternative, they are in an even stronger position today.

The conference has laid out clearly that the Toires intend to take the middle ground, the focus on poverty is just one obvious strategy. Labour couldn't address poverty not least as they have no economic credibility

Standing up for what you personally believe in is fine just don't ram it down every one else's throat

Well said squoglybob, unfortunately that sound advice will be ignored by the Tories.

The Daily Telegraph seems to have gone into overdrive with the bollocks they're churning out.

The people who voted for them are either arseholes or easily led.

Or they believe that overall, the Tories will do less harm than a labour led overspend followed by recession, etc.

Not something I personally agree with but I've certainly had it put forward as a heart felt view by people who wouldn't particularly be harmed even if the above scenario did happen.

Corbyn's associations with terrorists and his weakness on defence and security. Corbin has no credible response to this

Cos it's not a credible attack!

molgrips - Member

Cos it's not a credible attack!

That's the genius of it tbh. You can't respond to irrationality with logic, you can't counter it with facts. It's like trying to argue with a child who says there's an invisible dinosaur in their bedroom- it doesn't matter that there's no such thing as an invisible dinosaur, it doesn't matter that there's not enough room for one in their room, it only matters that they're in your face at 2am refusing to go back to bed because Jeremy Corbyn loves terrorists.

P-Jay - Member

What's probably more 'staggering' to me is the way the Tories are tearing into Jeremy Corbin and the Labour party, they've gone the 'full Republican' claiming Socialism is a danger the American British Way and Comrade Corbin will sell us all the Europe, but not before he's given all our money to those thieving immigrants.

I thought this was a bit of hyperbole but I just saw the speech and it isn't is it, it's exactly the message. Right down to "hating Britain". He's probably a muslim too. FFS.

It's not as if they've been pretending to be nice all these years.

But, but.....

Is this not real then?

[img] [/img]

I feel cheated. And used. And not in a good way 😥

You'll be telling me there's no substance to Georges Northern Powerhouse next!!!

the focus on poverty is just one obvious strategy.

By massively increasing it?

Life for a huge amount of the working poor (3 million families) is just about to get a whole lot shitter. The tax credits reforms mean that millions of the very poorest workers are going to lose a huge chunk of their income (some £1500 a year). And Georges modest 'Living Wage ' *(which actually isn't one) increases are nowhere near compensating for this

Is this a 'strategy' then? This their pitch to be the party of 'the Workers', and occupy the centre ground?

More Jambanomics? 😉

More Jambanomics?

More Jambabollox you mean.

jambalaya - Member

Tories speaking to the voters that elected them and those who may vote for them in the future.

May's immigration speech deliberately mis-represented here, the Tories want controlled immigration. Then we can take the best and the brightest.

OECD statistics show just 14% of migrants in Europe (on their way to Germany, Sweden etc basically) are Syrians. Over 40% are from the Balkans and Germans have been placing them in camps for immediate deportation.

Cameron and others picked the low hanging fruit that is Corbyn's associations with terrorists and his weakness on defence and security. Corbin has no credible response to this so they'll keep at it.

DrJ people voted the Tories in in part as there was no credible alternative, they are in an even stronger position today.

The conference has laid out clearly that the Toires intend to take the middle ground, the focus on poverty is just one obvious strategy. Labour couldn't address poverty not least as they have no economic credibility

You do realise that you're not being interviewed by the BBC don't you jambalaya ?

There's really no need to regurgitate that nonsense.

But, but.....

Is this not real then?

I feel cheated. And used. And not in a good way

You'll be telling me there's no substance to Georges Northern Powerhouse next!!!

You know he did something deeply disturbing to that poor Dog don't you?

It's not just a dog's head then?

"Where you can afford one of Camerons starter homes if you're on the living wage"

Completely missing the point. A living wage is meant to be at a level where you can live on, it doesn't have to be one where you must be getting enough to buy a house.

Basically Labour is worst in all aspects by comparison to the one in govt now.

Why are people keep deluding themselves by trying to save the world?

Bastid ZMs (TM new term) know very well that they want to create a nanny state and to control individual lifestyle according to their own utopian ideals.

No, we are not a big family.

No, I am not your brother.

No, you are wrong and I am right.

🙄

I think it's about time MPs worked harder preferably for minimum wage, maybe we should consider outsourcing their jobs to the Chinese.

Amazes me the cunning negotiating skills used by our political masters and Europe to secure unilateral agreements beneficial to the US and it's interests, shall we be polite and call it knuckling under.

chewkw - Member

Basically Labour is worst in all aspects by comparison to the one in govt now.

Why are people keep deluding themselves with trying to save the world?

Bastid ZMs know very well that they want to create a nanny state and to control individual lifestyle according to their own utopian ideals.

No, we are not a big family.

No, I am not your brother.

No, I am right and you are wrong.

What part of the 'Nanny State' do you think was created between 1997 and 2010, and what part was torn down since?

Basically Labour is worst in all aspects by comparison to the one in govt now.

Well that's one opinion, we'll have to wait 5 years to find out what everyone else thinks.

[i]Completely missing the point. A living wage is meant to be at a level where you can live on, it doesn't have to be one where you must be getting enough to buy a house. [/i]

the actual point (which you have missed) is that Cameron is asking for building to be diverted away from homes to rent and towards homes to buy.

Where are the people who would have rented those homes and now can't buy them supposed to go?

I'm somewhere in the middle between right and left, I don't have any particular views either way, but the attitudes the lefties have with their bitter vitriol and deep chips on their shoulders just puts me off leaning that way. If you could understand what these Tory bashing threads actually read like (through the permanent red mist you guys seem to have) you might understand.

I dont understand how anyone could read that balanced assessment of the lefties and not see you as middle of the road...have the BBC called you up to do the politics show due to your rampart and blatant impartiality? WHy do so many of the obvious right wing folk on here deny it?Why did they do insulting posts about lefites whilst railing against bitter vitriol? Do you get an irony by pass when you become right wing...sorry middle of the road?
Exhibit B

I think the point being made is tories are folk who only think/act out of self interest
yeah of course they are nothing like a large generalisation.

whilst telling us Great Britain is brilliant.
As opposed to old school labour who are constantly apologising for GB and grumbling how poor people are.

Yes no generalisation there from you and no mistake...again oh the irony

May's immigration speech deliberately mis-represented here, the Tories want controlled immigration. Then we can take the best and the brightest.

Bastid ZMs (TM new term) know very well that they want to create a nanny state and to control individual lifestyle according to their own utopian ideals.

If I had to choose then I'd much rather live in a [i]"nanny state"[/i] than an [i]"every man for himself, shit on your own mum if it gets you ahead"[/i] state.

binners - Member

By massively increasing it?

They're attacking poverty. Oy, you lot, over there? You represent property <kick>.

The living wage/buy a house thing does slightly miss the point robdob but what doesn't miss the point is that Cameron claims to be supporting first time buyers by creating more "low cost housing" when in fact the scheme allows houses more than 20% above the national average. There's no legitimate way you can define an above-average house as "low cost", it's just contradictory.

To be fair the Telegraph has been busy mis-representing Teresa May too, so it's not just the lefties that think the current Tories are a bit nasty.

I think Jambalaya's actually a Tory MP.

There's no legitimate way you can define an above-average house as "low cost"

Surely if you built a house in London that's only 20% over the national average then it could at least be argued to be 'low cost' assuming you're comparing to London?

The Telegraph are a on a roll today as they also attacked Mike Ashley's business and working practices. Now if everyone could agree to boycott Sports Direct that would be a campaign I could get behind.

nemesis - Member

Surely if you built a house in London that's only 20% over the national average then it could at least be argued to be 'low cost' assuming you're comparing to London?

There's a separate limit for London, the £250000 is for everywhere else. The national house price average is just over £200000 even taking London into account so in reality it's more than 20%, I just don't have a reliable number for how much higher.

OK, not London then - Edinburgh or Bristol to pick two other expensive locations that are inherently at least 20% over the national average.

My point isn't to support the policy but just I disagree that it's quite as misleading as you suggest though if you live in a [s]shithole like Middlesborough for example[/s] the North ( 😉 ) it's clearly not going to be helping many people

P-Jay - Member
What part of the 'Nanny State' do you think was created between 1997 and 2010, and what part was torn down since?

Very simple. Labour want to become a full member of the EU bureaucratic ZM state is it not?

There that's the first step to an EU super nanny state ... 🙄

That's no way out I am afraid unless you eat your own hat by saying you want out of EU super nanny state.

footflaps - Member

Basically Labour is worst in all aspects by comparison to the one in govt now.

Well that's one opinion, we'll have to wait 5 years to find out what everyone else thinks.

Ya, true, true ... I think it will be more like 4 terms at least or worst case scenario two generations.

If Labour wants to win without a good Leader all they need to do are:

1. To renounce their allegiance (to join in as full member) of an EU ZM bureaucratic state. I mean it is so stooppid to be wanting to be bureaucratised. Mind numbing prospect ... well, brain dead.

2. Control the boarder - Ya, get it into your thick skull that only genuine asylum seekers are welcome. Others please join the queue and jump through the hoops as usual.

3. Stick your nose in your own business and out of others affairs like those of the Israel and Palestine. You CANNOT solve "god's" problem. You are a Bastid ZM! Get it?

4. Get rid of the shite business rate.

5. Reduce the number of mind numbing ZM councils.

If Labour can do the above then I shall raise the red flag for you without you asking ...

GrahamS - Member

Bastid ZMs (TM new term) know very well that they want to create a nanny state and to control individual lifestyle according to their own utopian ideals.

If I had to choose then I'd much rather live in a "nanny state" than an "every man for himself, shit on your own mum if it gets you ahead" state.

There are already rules in a society even before the creation of EU. Did people go AWOL before that?

It is such a stoooopid ideal of trying to incorporate oneself into a larger bureaucratic ZM state.

chewkw what do you think a 'nanny state' actually does that it ought to stop doing?

In this country nanny's are women who care for children, educate them and generally look after their welfare.

I can't see that any of this activity is something we would not want our country to do for us throughout our lives?

This ^^ is what happens when you respond to one of Chewwy's posts - he comes back with twice as much bollocks.

You can't fault him for quantity. Quality OTOH...

In this country nanny's are women who care for children, educate them and generally look after their welfare.

Err, you might want to rephrase that a bit to retain any left wing credentials...

What I want to know is what is proposed for Next Generation Rent. Assuming in some fairy tale world people actually can buy these houses, they are going to want to sell them on, and will need to make a profit to do so. So it's just delaying action, and making the housing bubble worse, surely?

wwaswas - Member
chewkw what do you think a 'nanny state' actually does that it ought to stop doing?

Nations set their own rules as they wish. If their rules are shite so be it coz that's their home(country). If their rules say no one should wear tights or everyone should wear one so be it.

What's with the EU president thingy they are talking about ... such a disgusting concept you lot are numb in your brain wave. So stoopid it is unthinkable.

In this country nanny's are women who care for children, educate them and generally look after their welfare.

Ya, they can be as nanny as they wish in their own home with their family and their own children just try not to stick yourself into others' affairs.

I can't see that any of this activity is something we would not want our country to do for us throughout our lives?

I don't want them to do that for me.

ernie_lynch - Member

This ^^ is what happens when you respond to one of Chewwy's posts - he comes back with twice as much bollocks.

Did I say something right, correct, true? ... see I told you so I see you coming. 😯

nemesis - Member
You can't fault him for quantity. Quality OTOH...

Ya, I just get to the point. 😛

Quantity? Coz there are so many brain numbing issues that there is no way I can explain them all ...

So in 2020 will we see the nice party ?

The people who voted for them are either arseholes or easily led.

You've soon forgotten what the alternative was.

[img] [/img]

Nations set their own rules as they wish.

I have no idea what this, or the EU, has to do with left-wing socialism and the "nanny state".

But then I rarely understand any of chewkw's posts. 😳

P-Jay - Member
What part of the 'Nanny State' do you think was created between 1997 and 2010, and what part was torn down since?

Very simple. Labour want to become a full member of the EU bureaucratic ZM state is it not?

There that's the first step to an EU super nanny state ...

That's no way out I am afraid unless you eat your own hat by saying you want out of EU super nanny state.

We joined the European Union under Edward Heath, a tory PM.

Gordon Brown kept us out of the Euro which saved our arse in 2009.

Kept our Veto power throughout the Blair/Brown Government.

During the 5 years of the last Government, we made no changes to our relationship with Europe, and CMD made a promise (that he never thought he'd have to keep) for a referendum on Europe which he hasn't set a date for, and will campaign for us to stay in, because despite he words in the run up to the last election and the UKIP revolution that never came, it makes solid financial sense to stay within the EU.

The European Union has stood for over 40 years, there has never been a 'super state' and never will be, don't believe the hype, it's very easy for Governments to blame the EU when things go wrong, and easier for the tabloid to make silly headlines about straight bananas and such, but we hold an enviable position within the EU, we can vote to change it however we wish, we hold a permanent position at the top table within it, but we also have power of veto over any and all EU laws, we simply don't have to listen to any of them if we don't want to.

why are you embarrassed by that ? the posts are generally gibberish bollocks
Still the only poster who I never read and I fail to understand why folk expect a reasoned debate from him

GrahamS - Member

Nations set their own rules as they wish.

I have no idea what this, or the EU, has to do with left-wing socialism and the "nanny state".

But then I rarely understand any of chewkw's posts.

Of course you don't, of course you don't. 🙄

Very simple. Get out of EU altogether with NOT even a hint of going back then we can debate about nanny state or whatever.

P-Jay - Member
We joined the European Union under Edward Heath, a tory PM.

Gordon Brown kept us out of the Euro which saved our arse in 2009.

Kept our Veto power throughout the Blair/Brown Government.

I don't care who started the idea of this shite EU thingy (think Churchill did after WWII or something like that) but I want out or at least be promised that we WILL NEVER become a part/full member with this entity.

I don't care about the benefits of joining or the disasters whatever without joining ...

Just get me out of this EU ZM bureaucratic entity ... 🙄

If Labour can promise to get out of this EU ZM bureaucratic entity then I shall become communist to make sure all you bourgeois share your wealth. 🙄

So @chew's talking bollix but his arguments are the ones the electorate voted for ? The simple fact is many here cannot accept that the counter arguments made at the last election where rejected and rightly so, and don't recognise that what Corbyn is proposing will be rejected even more strongly.

P-Jay a European Super State is EXACTLY what is intended. It's been renamed a UNION for a reason, its no longer a Community or a Marketplace. We do not have the ability to veto everything and the the EU is moving very much towards closer integration, i.e. a super-state.

I wish the referendum was tomorrow

@chew's talking bollix but his arguments are the ones the electorate voted for ?

See jamb agrees with him and makes a mass appeal to authority [ the electorate] I rest my case. FACE PALM

Jamb feel free to count the votes for the winners and the votes against the winners and get back to me on explaining how the the minority voted for this assuming the maths is within your skill set.

FTPT gives us winners but most folk did not vote for this a fact even you must have noticed.

FS even your appeal to authorities are factually incorrect. I understand what you say but it is gibberish
As i have said i dont read chewks posts I have no idea what he is saying so it is pointless asking me or referencing them.

To be fair its pointless debating with you

Did you ever m reply about your crushing assessment of the left wing in greece mr 100%?

JY, Feel free to point out when a party won government in the UK with 50% of the vote. FPTP its our system, its served us very well not least as we are the 6th richest country in the world, something everybody benefits from in terms of healthcare and education.

We get that for you and many of the other regular posters on political threads the Tories are not the party for you but they are the party of government till 2020 and they are only getting stronger. It was a misplaced hope of the left that UKIP would deliver them a victory and I see the same thing happening now with what will be a forlorn hope than the EU referendum with split the Tories and deliver a Labour victory. To think that is very naive. There will be arguments amongst Tories but when it comes to getting re-elected in 2002 they will be as one whilst Labour has dived left into oblivion.

A powerful message from Cameron, one Labour are getting further and further away from being able to counter

[i]A Greater Britain

This year, we’ve seen more people in work than at any time in our history;

more of our children starting university than ever before;

more British entrepreneurs setting up shop than anywhere else in Europe.

Wages are rising. Hope is returning. We’re moving into the light.

But we’re not there yet. We’re only halfway through.

We can make this era – these 2010s – a defining decade for our country: the turnaround decade.

And our goal is a Greater Britain.

With strong defence and a strong economy.

An NHS that there’s for everybody, and schools that stretch our children.

And over the next five years we will show that the deep problems in our society are not inevitable.

That a childhood in care doesn’t have to mean a life of struggle.

That a stint in prison doesn’t mean you’ll get out and do the same thing all over again.

That being black, or Asian, or female, or gay doesn’t mean you’ll be treated differently.

A Greater Britain – made of greater expectations.

Where renters become homeowners, employees become employers, a small island becomes an even bigger economy, and where extremism is defeated once and for all.

A country raising its sights, its people reaching new heights.

A Greater Britain – made of greater hope, greater chances, greater security.

So let’s get out and make it happen.[/i]

Junkyard - lazarus
FTPT gives us winners but most folk did not vote for this a fact even you must have noticed.

It is the same for all winning parties as far as I can recall past or present. What's so new or so shocking about that?

FS even your appeal to authorities are factually incorrect. I understand what you say but it is gibberish

Ya right, but you know you are wrong. Don't you?

As i have said i dont read chewks posts I have no idea what he is saying so it is pointless asking me or referencing them.

😀 Now, now if credit is due then credit must be given and you should know that.

To be fair its pointless debating with you

Ya, I know coz I get to the point while you go on a big circle by distracting others. Bloody spin.

Did you ever m reply about your crushing assessment of the left wing in greece mr 100%?

Nope. Is Greece prosperous now? Are they still arguing that they are right? 😯

In this country nanny's are women who care for children, educate them and generally look after their welfare.

I can't see that any of this activity is something we would not want our country to do for us throughout our lives?

I'd rather Jeremy put me up against a wall and shot me.

@chew I think JY was trying to have a pop at me.

I must decide whether to start a new thread or just post in the Rotherham one about last night's Panorama

Well jambalaya let's see if they achieve their lofty aims in the second half of the 2010s. If they do the next election is a shoe-in.

5thElephant - Fingers crossed, eh?

Chewy spouting drivel on overdrive and jamba reciting propaganda cut and paste from central office. This thread has officially imploded.

He is the man we need to sort this mess out.

Not read the thread yet but once i post my opinion on the Tory party and what i have heard/read with regard to the conference i'll pop back to the thread start and work my through it, i imagine my views will be echoed by others on stw - although i can expect 3 forum regulars/posters to strongly disagree with my opinion. 😉

My opinion is I ****in [i]hate/despise/loath/abhor[/i] every single thing i have read or listened to so far, i find them utterly intolerable with regard to my beliefs on what i wish my country to become and i hope to god that i will get to confront that muppet Finlay Carson when he next makes an appearance at my workplace.

That's the mild rant……... 😉

JY, Feel free to point out when a party won government in the UK with 50% of the vote.

Labour may well be killing itself [ only time will tell us but it may well be so]but i would not gloat just yet about how well the tories deal with EU vote just yet though I am sure your unswerving loyalty is of great support to them

See how I can actually look at reality and not just put my politics before the facts. I realise its beyond you as you get excited about the tories winning in 2020

This may sound alarmist, but We're fkd!
This lot will see in the end of the U.K. as we know it, even the yanks are starting to look like socialists compared to this lot..

Is Greece prosperous now? Are they still arguing that they are right?

Did the left get a drubbing in the election, as you claimed?

@chew I think JY was trying to have a pop at me.

[b]ITS STILL NOT HIS LOG IN NAME [/b]

FFS how many times do you need to be told something to get it?

DrJ - Member
Chewy spouting drivel on overdrive and jamba reciting propaganda cut and paste from central office. This thread has officially imploded.

😆 @ 'propaganda' ...

I thought the die hard lefties are the one going on and on about their "rights" and others "wrongs" all the time by insisting on their views throughout ... well, they keep banging on the topic and people will think that they are "right" sort of thing.

I thought that's weird coz no normal being would be so die hard about an ideology .. then I thought ... bloody hell the foot soldiers have started campaigning.

Like I said many times ... nope, I see you coming. 😆

DrJ - Member

Is Greece prosperous now? Are they still arguing that they are right?

Did the left get a drubbing in the election, as you claimed?

Cannot recall what I said but one thing I am very clear ... they are very desperate people and are just begging for a living due to their own doings. Whether they have elected a right or left party in govt Greeks are very good at arguing I kid you not ... 🙄

Yep, logic and reason have left the building and have been replaced with tinfoil hats.

Of course you don't, of course you don't.

I really don't. Sorry. 😳
I'm not just trying to be difficult, I honestly do try, but for some reason I can rarely follow your arguments or reasoning.

I think all the extreme hyperbole and ZM stuff just confuses me.

I can follow other posters' thinking, even if I don't necessarily agree with it, but yours consistently makes me think of a ping pong ball in a Dyson.

This thread is a case in point: you said the "Bastid ZMs" want to create a nanny state, wwaswas asked you what was wrong with a nanny state and you answered him by talking about EU membership.

I just don't follow. You might as well have said "Because bananas are yellow".

die hard lefties

Like the Telegraph?

Or maybe you meant high quality forks from Cannondale?

Their is a poster called chew this poster is [b]chewk[/b] - more of the famous Jamby analytical skills and attention to detail at work...humbling

...

ITS STILL NOT HIS LOG IN NAME

FFS how many times do you need to be told something to get it?

Ummmm... should I tell him or will someone else...? 😆

I was just moving him to the correct spelling an extra letter at a time as i though anything else would confuse him 😉

"Thousands of words have been delivered about the new Labour leader. But you only really need to know one thing: he thinks the death of Osama bin Laden was a 'tragedy'"

Misrepresenting people really pisses me off.

You can find out what he actually said if you like;

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-calls-osama-bin-ladens-death-a-tragedy-but-was-it-taken-out-of-context-10479396.html ]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-calls-osama-bin-ladens-death-a-tragedy-but-was-it-taken-out-of-context-10479396.html[/url]

nemesis - Member

OK, not London then - Edinburgh or Bristol to pick two other expensive locations that are inherently at least 20% over the national average.

The places that most desperately need more affordable housing, you mean?
£250000 is still slightly above the average house price in Edinburgh and Bristol btw (and that's even with a pretty narrow definition of Edinburgh not including the commuter towns) but by definition your low cost housing should be pitching well below the average.

We can probably argue about exactly what percentile counts as "low cost" but I don't think anyone can argue that above average is not low cost. I think the technical term for it would be "above average cost". And if housing is unaffordable then the solution isn't more expensive houses. Still, maybe Jamba will have a go?

It used to be, you'd put an element of truth in your announcements, at least a veneer of honesty and respectability. Now you just say whatever you want and declare it to be something else, with a straight face. This is just another, but it's particularily blatant.

GrahamS - Member

Of course you don't, of course you don't.

I really don't. Sorry.
I'm not just trying to be difficult, I honestly do try, but for some reason I can rarely follow your arguments or reasoning.

😀 Ya, I know some of you will have difficulty following my arguments but slowing down, then having to explain, justify etc ... ahhhhh ... it is sooooo slowww. My view is simple you either get it or you don't.

I think all the extreme hyperbole and ZM stuff just confuses me.

I can follow other posters' thinking, even if I don't necessarily agree with it, but yours consistently makes me think of a ping pong ball in a Dyson.

I don't know how you can communicate with a foreign person if you think it is difficult to comprehend me. If you cannot understand me then I am sure you will not be able to interpret a non-native speaker mind.

This thread is a case in point: you said the "Bastid ZMs" want to create a nanny state, wwaswas asked you what was wrong with a nanny state and you answered him by talking about EU membership.

I just don't follow. You might as well have said "Because bananas are yellow".

Am I too fast for everyone or is everyone deliberately slow? 🙄

Very simple. Nanny state means more interference from unwanted rules and being in ZM EU means added rules.

edit: How can you lot with your PhDs cannot understand another person? Aren't you supposed to be more capable of "understanding" with your logic?

The EU and its predecessors have meant that my father's generation was the first is a very long time (200 years? More? Less? About that) not to see a Anglo-Franco-German war (at least 2 out of 3) that had a habit of drawing the rest of Europe in.

Worth a bit of red tape that.

Now what's it got to do with the Nasty Party (Teresa's term, not mine)

The EU and its predecessors have meant that my father's generation was the first is a very long time (200 years? More? Less? About that) not to see a Anglo-Franco-German war (at least 2 out of 3) that had a habit of drawing the rest of Europe in.

I'm sorry but that is utter nonsense. It was pretty much universally agreed after WW2 that nobody wanted another war for a long long time.

The EU is now crippling Europe economically, especially the Southern states, leading to political radicalisation (both on the right and the left). The EU is laying the foundations for a series of Balkan-like conflicts.

dit: How can you lot with your PhDs cannot understand another person?

It's because you don't make sense 🙂

igm - Member
The EU and its predecessors have meant that my father's generation was the first is a very long time (200 years? More? Less? About that) not to see a Anglo-Franco-German war (at least 2 out of 3) that had a habit of drawing the rest of Europe in.

Very simple. If you need this bureaucratic entity to stop war within EU nations then you have just proved that the West is not as civilized as they think of themselves to be. Essentially, this is just a temporary halt to a major problem by "sweeping differences under the carpet".

Worth a bit of red tape that.

Not even worth a single penny in my view.

I rather they be honest then to pretend ...

molgrips - Member

dit: How can you lot with your PhDs cannot understand another person?

It's because you don't make sense

Eh? I thought PhD is to research and to make sense of something normal mortal cannot understand?

Are you saying with your PhD you still cannot make sense of my views?

Crikey, if everyone can make sense of the unknown then what's the use of PhD?

Aren't you supposed to research and to make sense of things regardless of how illogical they can be? (note to self: PhDs are just normal mortal with even narrower view)

Am I too fast for everyone or is everyone deliberately slow?

Well I do find myself reading all your posts in a slightly breathless hyperactive tone. Like I've tapped directly into your stream of consciousness where words and thoughts just tumble out almost at random.

So possibly the former. 😀

Very simple. Nanny state means more interference from unwanted rules and being in ZM EU means added rules.

Right. See that makes a bit more sense. Your thought-process is a little easier to follow when you show your working.

Still seems a pretty massive leap, but at least I understand the general trajectory.

Edit: by the way, I don't have a PhD.

GrahamS - Member

Very simple. Nanny state means more interference from unwanted rules and being in ZM EU means added rules.

Right. See that makes a bit more sense. Your thought-process is a little easier to follow when you show your working.

Ahhhh ... Okay ... I will show my "working" only if I can slow down my thought process ... it's going at light speed you know. 😆

Still seems a pretty massive leap, but at least I understand the general trajectory.

Okay, sounds good. One small step for GrahamS and one massive leap from me something like that.

Edit: by the way, I don't have a PhD.

You don't? That's new because many on STW are either PhD or some scientists whatever ... except me as low ranking ZM bureaucrat.

You don't? That's new because many on STW are either PhD or some scientists whatever ..

Just a plain old bachelor's degree here: BSc (Hons) Computer Science, if it makes any odds.

Not much help in understanding sociology and geo-politics I'm afraid.

badnewz - Member
It was pretty much universally agreed after WW2 that nobody wanted another war for a long long time.

It was agreed after WWI - war to end all wars and all that. It just didn't work until they (quite deliberately) set out to tie France and Germany together so closely (via the coal and steel industries as I recall but don't quote me) that they could not go to war.

The EU is now crippling Europe economically, especially the Southern states, leading to political radicalisation (both on the right and the left). The EU is laying the foundations for a series of Balkan-like conflicts.

I would agree that fiscal union without a unifying the financial policy of the various states might have a lot to do with this, but that is more the euro than the EU I think. In fact a common finance ministry (bit radical even for a good European like me) might be one of the long term solutions to the issue - a bit like the federal system in the States. (Yes I am talking about a federal Europe and a 'loss' of national sovereignty, but then I only reckon nations as a basis for picking sports teams - for economics bigger probably is better - discuss, but not on this thread).

And Chewkw, the west isn't civilised, never has been. Britain for example is just about permanently at war with someone somewhere, and really hates to be left out of a good scrap - it's a defining characteristic as a nation. Switzerland meanwhile almost never goes to war, but proving dodgy banking facilities to tyrants, despots and wearing countries isn't entirely civilised either. Nice chocolate and watches though.
And not worth a penny of red tape? Red tape is cheaper than war every time.

Perhaps people like lower taxes so they get to choose how to spend their money. I know I do.

Don't dress it up. Money owed in tax isn't YOUR money, it's the state's. So what you're saying is that you want more money. You want others to suffer because you want more money. That's the definition of greed, and that's why they are called the nasty party.

I want others to suffer. I'm greedy. The party I voted for are nasty.

Pretty standard stuff these days to a Conservative voter. Typical approach, no wonder it puts so many people off.

I believe in smaller government. To me Austerity means living within our means, and people who are anti-austerity want to run up the credit card bill again. Naah, you're right, screw it, spend spend spend. Works a treat every time.

Are you saying with your PhD you still cannot make sense of my views?

HTH

I believe in smaller government. To me Austerity means living within our means, and people who are anti-austerity want to run up the credit card bill again. Naah, you're right, screw it, spend spend spend. Works a treat every tim

Economics fail.

Running a deficit in a country isn't that big of a deal. Countries aren't like households. Sure, it would be nice to have no deficit, but austerity means cutting services to vulnerable people who really really need state help, whilst the rich have no disadvantage whatsoever.

How is that fair? A black balance sheet would be nice, but not at the expense of the helpless. That's why they're called the nasty party, because they don't give a shit about people.

To me Austerity means living within our means

So how does that fit with you wanting lower taxes?

Surely if you want us to live austerely, within our means, then reducing our means is not a very good start.

Running a deficit in a country isn't that big of a deal.

Really? Ask the Greeks how they are enjoying a big deficit.

Even the nice party was planning to cut the deficit.

A Labour government will cut the deficit every year. The first line of Labour’s
first Budget will be: “This Budget cuts the deficit every year”. This manifesto
sets out that we will only lay a Budget before the House of Commons that
cuts the deficit every year, which the OBR will independently verify.
We will get national debt falling and a surplus on the current budget as soon
as possible in the next parliament. This manifesto sets out that we will not
compromise on this commitment.

LABOUR.ORG.UK "http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/BritainCanBeBetter-TheLabourPartyManifesto2015.pdf"

hugo - Member

I want others to suffer. I'm greedy. The party I voted for are nasty.

Pretty standard stuff these days to a Conservative voter. Typical approach, no wonder it puts so many people off.

I understand all that, what I don't understand is if you support the Tory Party's taxation policies so much why has it made you leave the country?

As exemplified here :

hugo - Member

They were democratically elected. The outpouring of grief and whinging by the left is staggering.

Perhaps people like lower taxes so they get to choose how to spend their money. I know I do. In fact that's why I moved abroad.

Perhaps you don't know yourself ❓ 💡