Absolutely fascinating series of documentaries. I may be biased because I’ve worked in some of the communities that were involved and have seen the consequences of the closures of the pits.
Very few people or organisations come out of it with much credit.
Anyone else watching it?
What channel is it on?
Channel 4. Not seen it yet, 2 years before I was born. Probably something that I should know more about.
Ta for the heads up.
Thanks - will watch that.
Lived for many years in Fallin - home to Polmaise colliery: first pit out, last pit back.
"Still the enemy within" was made in 2014 and is also worth a watch.
I'm of an age where I remember it well. In 1984; Post finals but pre results four of us students went up to Sheffield to get a bit of climbing done. We were pulled over by the police the moment we left the motorway. Apparently we might have been flying pickets. Not so. The police attitude was not pleasant at all.
I'm now living in South Wales. The Amman valley was a coal community and like all the others was very hard hit during the strike.
During the 2020 lockdown I was chatting to my nextdoor neighbour. In 1984 her husband was a pit deputy so continued working but most other miners were less fortunate and came to rely upon soup kitchens etc, in a somewhat similar way to the food banks used during the pandemic. During the lockdown, as a teacher I had been involved with the distribution of food bundles for 'FSM' pupils. Early on we had a problem with dishonest parents collecting their allocation from first one and then another school. We did what we could to stop this but I'm pretty sure that some antisocial scrotes had more than their share.
Anyhows, back during the strike Sylvia (neighbour) had been involved with food parcels and the local soup kitchen during the strike and knew that similarly there were individuals that cheated. 40 years on they are still known and whilst not necessarily pariahs are remembered badly indeed.
FSM= Free School Meals.
Every year when teaching I would show The Battle of Orgreave. It's now been built over, renamed and there are people living there who have no knowledge of those times. My next dooor neighbour was in the strike and there's still very strong memories about that and Hillsborough.
I grew up in one of the North Notts villages where there was a great deal of animosity due to North Notts not striking and flying pickets coming in from Yorkshire. My dad had been a miner but had left some years earlier and I had moved away to the bright lights of Sheffield so had no skin in the game. But my God how that village declined afterwards.
I watched it and, as expected, was apoplectic within ten minutes
During the miners strike my journey to school and back took me past Parkside Colliery, so I saw the rows of black mariah’s and the riot police on the picket lines, first hand, twice a day. Then being at school with the sons and daughters of striking miners it was just part of our lives.
Thatchers stormtroooers bussed in from the south east, getting payed premium overtime to beat the living shit out of northern blokes for having the effrontery to want to keep their jobs?
I wasn’t that politically aware at that age about ideology or anything, but everything about what was going on told me that it was just fundamentally wrong and unjust. Because it was. It was an act of vandalism by that cold unfeeling bitch and her acolytes
It taught me from an early age to know your enemy. I absolutely *ing despise the Tory party and everything those *s represent with every single fibre of my being
The bitch thatcher totally ripped the soul out of the working class. There should be a yearly pilgrimage to her grave to piss on it.
As well as the documentary, there was an excellent drama on a couple of years ago on ITV - Sherwood - about the continuing toxic legacy of the miners strike. It captures things perfectly
The police were terrified’: Sherwood, the TV drama about strikers, scabs, miners and murder
The bitch thatcher totally ripped the soul out of the working class. There should be a yearly pilgrimage to her grave to piss on it.
"£3 million for the funeral of Margaret Thatcher? For 3 million you could give everyone in Scotland a shovel, and we could dig a hole so deep we could hand her over to Satan in person".
- Frankie Boyle
"Tbf, it was a **** shit job and putting most into an early grave."
Granted, but she didn't want the pits shut for the benefit of the workers health.
Tbf, it was a * shit job and putting most into an early grave
If you watch it, then most of the people doing it didn’t think of it remotely like that
And as already pointed out, if every miner died before 50 then I doubt anyone in the Tory party could give a flying *! They’d probably love that actually. Less horrible working class people to pay pensions to
Tony Benn shut more mines than Margaret Thatcher
I'd remember that in the 70's the UK was a basket case economically , more so than now (!). Union power had destroyed the Callaghan government (winter of discontent), the motor industry was a joke and fighting the unions and so there was a general appetite in the country to curb the unions. That's why Thatcher was voted in
Thatcher clearly decided to destroy the miners, and made sure the pits closed down for good by destroying the infrastructure as well, bulldozing the pit head down the main shaft springs to mind. It was deliberately destructive and highly political.
Scargill though also decided to declare war on the government which was equally vindictive, politically driven and he didn't give a **** about the miners as he continued to get paid and driven around the country by a chauffeur. The misery brought to the mining communities was as much on his shoulders as it was Thatcher. Very convenient to forget but the days of mass, violent walkouts winning the day had already passed.
Coal was declining anyway, the miners helped to accelerate that decline massively.
I'm not defending Thatcher or the Tories but blame goes both ways and a lot of innocent people had their lives destroyed by bullies on both sides.
When I said that very few people or organisations come out of it with credit, I do include Arthur Scargill and the NUM in that too, alongside the police, and the legal and political establishment.
Scargill and the hard left were using it as an excuse to try and foment political revolution, encouraged and backed by some very unsavoury characters and organisations.
Thatcher and the police were all too happy to see it escalate into class war to pursue their own ends. The police, legal and media establishment enthusiastically went along with it.
Apparently a cover up of a lot if illegal behaviour by South Yorkshire Police again.
A lot of the liars and criminals were also involved in the Hillsborough cover up.
Should be a proper investigation.
I’m not defending Thatcher or the Tories but blame goes both ways and a lot of innocent people had their lives destroyed by bullies on both sides.
+1 I worked at Bolsover Colliery sept 82 to sept 83, worked the 3 shifts & did about 120 shifts of the 140 needed to be fully coalface trained but decided that being a colliery manager wasn't for me. As a grammar school educated southerner I had the absolute piss ripped out of me but also knew that if I had any sort of problems people would help me out, great time & great experience, breaks my heart that such community spirit was basically destroyed by the divide and rule ways of both Thatcher & Scargill. Still work with some ex miners from that area & one friend was at Shirebrook colliery 😕
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5075402
There is a story behind the dips in this rails to trails path. The embankment was made from colliery waste and this contained coal that the 19th century mine owners deemed to poor quality to sort and sell. During the strike the embankment was quarried for coal to to heat the homes of striking miners.
The government wanted to break the power of unions at any cost. That has left us with a working class which is pretty well powerless to defend itself. Scargill was a poor leader too .
https://www.ardrossanherald.com/news/24002888.now-40-years-since-miners-strike-hit-ayrshire/
The NUM delegate at Polmaise wrote an account of the strike:
POLMAISE: THE FIGHT FOR A PIT By John McCormack (former Polmaise NUM delegate)
Worth a read and available as a free down-load:
"Thatcher clearly decided to destroy the miners, and made sure the pits closed down for good by destroying the infrastructure as well, bulldozing the pit head down the main shaft springs to mind. It was deliberately destructive and highly political."
Exactly the same salted-earth policy as we see with HS2 north of Brim now.
And Britain still suffers from the same broken communities and society now, 40 years on.
Scargill was a ****ing moron for picking the fight thst he did and the timing and manner of it. The police were corrupt and unaccountable from the top down (just the same now really)..but Thatcher was an utterly evil bitch. Its a pity the IRA didn't succeed in Brighton. Britain would have been better for it if they had.
I'm of an age and from a region that means this didn't really affect me and I'm lucky that very little of a comparable level has ever happened to me or my family but now living in Sheffield and working with a few exminers I've read up and watched bits to try and get a better feel for it. I accept it was a horrible time but can't shake the feeling that there's a lot of reluctance in some quarters to accept it was shit and move on. The mines are gone forever, the communities are gone forever, a good chunk of the people directly involved are gone forever, romanticising and grumbling about something 40 years ago hasn't made improvements. Where do we go from here?
Need to watch this. It didn’t affect me at the time, brought up comfortably as one of Thatchers children, so pit closures and steel closures didn't impact me.
Now live in a former coal and iron area. I can see the impact around me, speak to people who worked down pits or in foundries. I also have extended family who were the south east police bussed in.
Industry and society change and move on - Labour shut many pits in the 60s. But you don’t rip the heart out of industries and communities without having plans to minimise and repair the damage. That's the bigger tragedy.
there’s a lot of reluctance in some quarters to accept it was shit and move on.
I'm not sure I'd phrase it like that, but there are still folk who seem to be stuck in events two generations ago and unwilling to move on and rebuild, but then the governments haven't given them much help or hope.
Scargill played into Thatcher's hands by calling the strike without a ballot, which is why the Nottinghamshire miners didn't join it, helping keep the lights on. Also why Labour Party were divided in support Rights and wrongs aside that's rubbish tactics.
I watched it and, as expected, was apoplectic within ten minutes
I imagine I'll be the same, much like the first 10mins of the Post Office series.
For this one, I wonder if C4 are being cunning in an election year.
All these people slagging Unions off, what about the absolute shitshow that was the senior management of British industry in the 1970's and 1980's?
The UK Trade Union's were integral for securing workers rights. H&S, holidays, sick pay etc.
Look where we are now regarding employment rights, things have got a lot worse since the 1980s and wage disparity is the highest it's ever been.
The likes of Rees-Mogg would have us back in Victorian times if he could, he even stood up in Parliament and said it out loud.
Aye - just blame the Unions.
there’s a lot of reluctance in some quarters to accept it was shit and move on.
Some people COULDN’T move on. If you didn’t see deindustrialisation first hand, it’s difficult to imagine the ‘scorched earth’ effect it had.
These towns were completely dependent on these jobs for their entire economy. The hearts were ripped out of entire communities and pretty much the entire working age population rendered unemployed overnight and absolutely nothing was done to soften the impact. Quite the reverse, in fact. It was carried out with malice as an act of vengeance and to make examples of uppity working class people.
Norman Tebbit summed up the casually callous attitude of the government by telling people to ‘get on their bikes’. Thatcher referred to it as ‘managed decline’ but believe me, when you were in the middle of it there was nothing ‘managed’ about it!
And if you look at the completely unbalanced economy we know have, with London as the golden city on the hill, a wealthy south east and the rest of the country literally falling apart, that’s worked out well, hasn’t it?
I’m not exonerating the unions. I agree completely that the last people you needed in this situation were two grandstanding intransigent bastards like Thatcher and Scargill.
Everyone just became collateral damage in their pissing competition
Where do we go from here ?
We have not really looked at the setting factors, triggers and consequences of the miners strike at a societal level. Unless we do we are likely face the same or similar situations again with one significant difference there's no counter balance to the power of unscrupulous employers
I was in primary school in South Wales at the time, so can't remember it that well. My grandparents in Garnant in the Amman valley were a miner and the other worked in the colliery canteen. Same with my great uncles. My other grandfather was a miner in South Yorkshire. I can remember them relying on food handouts, and as Ambrose said resentment still lingers towards some local families and Notts workers. It wrecked the community, but on the flip side my grandparents were desperate for their kids not to work in the mines, which they didn't. I dunno, it's not a shame that a dangerous dirty job is doesn't exist any more, but the community never really recovered.
I'll watch it to refresh my memories of it
My brother in law was a mounted policeman. He got a Villa in Spain out of the overtime.
Is this him?
I wrote my dissertation on photomontage and it’s use as a political weapon. I have this image up on the wall by my desk
Look where we are now regarding employment rights, things have got a lot worse since the 1980s
Thats a pretty silly one dimensiinal statement. Minimum wage, health and safety legislation, flexible working rights, pension entitlement, working time directive to name a few. Many of which came from the EU, the very thing a lot of the unions detested.
Like most things its nuanced.
BigJohn, FiL makes similar claims about redecorating their entire dilapidated house, buying all-new domestic goods, and funding their first holiday abroad. Was a traffic cop. I can only imagine what the overtime for front-line cops must have been like.
(Is also anti-union, doesn't like me musing that the Police Federation is a union in all but name.)
You'd think the far left would have reassessed their opinion of Our Maggs and her single handed Green Energy crusade to keep fossil fuels in the ground and save the planet from da climatz changez.
I was living in a town with a lot of miners at the time, most of the houses were owned by miners. Funnily enough because they were a few of the working class who could afford them, my parents however despite both working only started in the housing market.
Of course being the north east there are a lot of ex-miners. Loads who still never got over them closing never could find a job. Many more who easily found work because if you looked and applied for something different.
Then there’s ones who will tell you best thing was that they closed as the conditions were awful, paid well especially if doing extra hours. <br /><br />
Then there’s those who miss it because they’d rock up for a shift and be told they’re not needed at the face. However, they were tasked to landscape the gaffers garden, using materials from the pit. But that’s fine as if they wanted any work doing then they could do the same. <br /><br />
Scargil lead them a merry dance while lying his pockets, the pits were losing money left right and centre. They were never going to remain and the miners could no longer hold the government to ransom as gas was taking over.
Some people COULDN’T move on. If you didn’t see deindustrialisation first hand, it’s difficult to imagine the ‘scorched earth’ effect it had.
But it could have been different, we could have de-mined the areas and seeded different industries to offer a future. We just chose not to - that was probably the biggest mistake, the mines were doomed it was just when they closed.
The scorched earth policy was the real crime. Scargill didn't help, he waged war with the Tories and they just said 'ok, you sit up North with a crown on your head and see how well you manage on your own'. To be fair, he managed very well, made himself life president of the NUM and lived happily ever after.
I don't think the country had the money. It's proven disastrous in the long term, but inflation in the 70's was up to 25%, the country had been to the IMF and printing money wasn't a viable policy for a government. The UK had been stuck in a low growth, high inflation trap - this was the landscape, incentive for a the new approach Thatcher promised , and delivered for better or worse
Scargill didn’t help
I don't think he made it any worse, the decimation of industrial communities and towns was enacted whether they put up a fight or went with a whimper. It wasn't just the miners, unemployment soared to over 3 million, plus over a million on the sick because the doctors in those communities took pity on them. The pit closures and miners strike might be the headline grabber that is remembered, but it wasn't the only victim of the policy.
But it could have been different, we could have de-mined the areas and seeded different industries to offer a future. We just chose not to – that was probably the biggest mistake, the mines were doomed it was just when they closed.
The scorched earth policy was the real crime
Absolutely agree.
Norman Tebbit summed up the casually callous attitude of the government by telling people to ‘get on their bikes’.
However, as a former RAF brat, I find the continued reaction to Tebbits comment a bit naive. We moved regularly for my primary school years. My dad had a huge struggle to find work when he left the RAF in the winter of discontent. Lots of people move to find work, and have done for centuries. We relocated when I was made redundant in 2000.
I get that the mining communities were decimated and deserved much better. But sometimes you have to do it yourself when no one else is doing it for you.
Then there’s ones who will tell you best thing was that they closed as the conditions were awful, paid well especially if doing extra hours.
Took me two weeks to stop coughing up black* & I'd only been working underground for a year & had recently had a 3wk break before giving it up altogether. But sat & Sunday work was well paid for sure.
* We were rationed on the number of paper masks we were allowed, often you couldn't see for the dust (cutter bigger than the coal seam) & only the machine operator had full face vented helmets.
I watched it. I grew up in North East Derbyshire and was 17/18 years old when the strike was on. People I was at school with followed their dads down the pit.
Although I lived nearer Chesterfield which had a broader job market than the pit villages mining was still huge - even my mum did wages at a company that manufactured and installed pit head buildings and plant.
Mining was reasonably well paid job back then in a much flatter society - not saying it was easy but it provided a comfortable life. More than that, in the pit villages it was pretty much the sole employer and miners social clubs and welfare were centre of the community. That was what was at stake and what was lost when the pits were closed - with no thought providing support to transition to new industries. Mining communities were the collateral damage in a war waged by Thatcher on the unions
Ex-mining villages/towns (and other former industrial communities) are still run down with now inter-generational unemployment and huge social issues. When Labour came to power in 1997 the focus was (not unreasonably) on inner cities and these semi-rural old industrial towns and villages were forgotten about in terms of regeneration.
Fast forward - NE Derbyshire was one of the first red wall seats to go Tory (in 2017) after a huge UKIP vote in previous elections, then followed by a tide of similar communities in 2019. Labour would me minded to think of why these voters are alienated from Labour policies and how regeneration needs to happen beyond the big cities
No need to read past post 10. Well said binners.
Also watch brassed off for an insight into what the dash for gas did. Apparently the dash for gas closed now pits, faster, than the strike and surrounding events.
I get that the mining communities were decimated and deserved much better. But sometimes you have to do it yourself when no one else is doing it for you.
Loads of people took Tebbits advice and ‘got on their bikes’ because they had no choice
The result?
A broom cupboard with a bed in it in some south london shithole costs the same as the GDP of Luxembourg. Meanwhile northern towns are full of boarded up terraced streets that they can’t give away because there are no jobs within a 50 mile radius
It’s all worked out well, hasn’t it?
I don’t think the country had the money.
Yeah that's always the case - as a G7 country the UK is permanently skint and the government is always pleading poverty.
And yet strangely, as is always the case, the Money Tree suddenly and magically appeared before the miner's strike, and provided Thatcher with £billions, no questions asked, to fund a war in the South Atlantic.
No one asked the obvious question "can we afford to pay for this ridiculously expensive war?".
Bunging each Falklander a £1million each would have been a lot cheaper.
Edit: At the time of the Falklands War Britian had the third largest navy in the world. Skint my arse.
Labour policies and how regeneration needs to happen beyond the big cities
Round here it doesn't happen past the ring road and they don't understand why the outskirts are changing colours.
Norman Tebbit summed up the casually callous attitude of the government by telling people to ‘get on their bikes’.
I literally did, along with my then girlfriend and now wife. We left the Midlands on bikes and headed for France, toured around a bit then lived in a tent in the woods in the town we chose while setting up a business on half a shoe string. It had little to do with our work ethic, more to do with voting with our feet and looking for greener grass. With hindsight I'd like to thank all those that led to us deciding to emigrate, some of whom have been mentioned in this thread but also some of those we worked for and their attitudes. Another currently running thread tells me that things are no better now and probably a lot worse than in 1984 for many employees or "self employees"..
Back then I could live on what I earned within easy reach of the work whatever the job.
It's fairly easy for a single guy or young couple to up sticks and move for work, it's considerably harder for a family with mortgage & kids at local school especially if no one wants to buy your house coz the main employer has just shut up shop.
I have a vague memory after the strike ended that Scargill disappeared somewhere with millions that was raised by the polish miners to support the striking miners over here.
On a similar thread, an ex-copper that I used to know (nasty piece of work he was, would boast about pushing cuffed suspects down the stairs and had a nice side racket he selling confiscated stuff) made big bucks from being bussed down to Newbury to beat up the bypass protestors.
especially if no one wants to buy your house
That was part of Thatcher's battle plan: selling off council housing.
Pre -Thatcher the councils would waive rent during a strike but the banks wouldn't do that.
Thatcher started planning for the strike - and to destroy the unions because they'd brought down Heath from the moment she came to power, if not before.
I have deleted my post half a dozen times to this thread.
I witnessed what went on at Easington Colliery, not as a Miner i was a member of the AUEW and we collected and took food into Easington.
Roadblocks, coppers with no collar numbers, snatch squads, proper violence.
No redemption..... they/we were destroyed.
Another perspective, I started work in 81 in heavy engineering in the East Mids, with associated companies in Chesterfield, Sheffield and Doncaster. At the start of the strike, there were a few meetings where we were urged, by the Union Leaders, to come out on strike in support of the Miners. We voted unanimously to not do that, engineering was dying a death then, we didnt want to go the same way, and neither did the associated companies in the strike areas.
None of the Mines in Leics. stopped working, they all said Scargill was not doing the Miners any good by striking. It got a bit heated when senior Union Reps came and told us we had to take at least one day of strike action to show solidarity. They were told to F off. A later meeting was had by the National Exec. which said the Leics. Branch of the Union would be suspended if they continued to defy their orders. They were all told to F off, and we said we’d be stopping our contributions to them. They suddenly shut up about it, as it later came out that they were nearly bankrupt, as they were giving our money to the strikers, and had no reserves left.
This just made us more determined to oppose the stupid strike (which was 6 months old then), and it was clear they wouldnt get their pay rise. We knew what was going on with the pickets and Police, but were not bothered at all about it, they were paid far more than us, in conditions that were not too different, so little sympathy was going their way. I do remember when the strike finish was announced, there was a big cheer from one side of the factory which had a radio on. The Union Reps were all bitter about it, and the Union became less of a influence after that, as we were sick of them telling us what to do, so many people stopped paying their subs.
i was a member of the AUEW and we collected and took food into Easington
I was a member of the AUEW too, see my post above. The strike did more to ruin the Unions than anything else. The AUEW were trying to make us come out in sympathy with the Miners, we were having none of it, we couldnt afford to strike. The high handed approach from the Management of the AUEW was totally stupid, no one was going to come out on strike for an industry that was miles away, had little to do with us, and for which we had little sympathy. Our factory went from a closed shop to around 40% membership within a year of the strike, none of us liked the attitude where we should lose our wages, and probably jobs too, for Miners who had far better pay than us. The Union was focusing on supporting the strike, when they should have been focused on their own members.
I chatted with a Head of MFL in a Sheffield school. He said during the strike he used to give a student teacher a lift in to work. Apparently when they drove past a picket line she said:
'Oh my God, there's my brother.'
'Really?'
'He's not in the police, he's in the army.'
Thatcher's aim was to destroy the organised working class and 'reward the wealth creators' and she did. Just take a look at the Gini coefficient (measure of inequality) from the mid 70s.
However, as a former RAF brat, I find the continued reaction to Tebbits comment a bit naive.
Your family had base accommodation to fall back on if necessary, plus support with private housing and moving costs. This was not available to miners and without council housing we are now unable to have a flexible workforce as private landlords are less flexible for short notice moves.
It taught me from an early age to know your enemy. I absolutely *ing despise the Tory party and everything those *s represent with every single fibre of my being
Very much this.
Scargill didn't do the miners any favours but Thatcher was out to destroy the unions in any way she could. She effectively weaponised the Police against the strikers and didn't give a sh*t about families or communities. She was pure evil.
What's amazing is how all thay Tory rhetoric has stuck, including on here, about the 'country can't afford etc etc'. I had mates in their 40s down the pub when I lived in Rutland who'd come out with all that crap and all they had in the world was a car, a rent book, a mobile phone and a packet of fags. An unbelievable achievement really.
When I left school at 17 I worked for a print company for a while. There was a Sogat member on the shop floor who was so useless at every job he was given (he'd deliberately sabotage work) he was given a chair in the corner and told to sit and do nothing all day. Because he was a union member he couldn't be sacked. He'd sit under the open tread stairs and try to look up the skirts of the office girls. Now while I agree that unions have had their place in protecting legitimate workers rights, there comes a point when their stance is indefensible. Issues like this damaged their image as they couldn't tell the good cases from the bad.
She effectively weaponised the Police against the strikers and didn’t give a sh*t about families or communities. She was pure evil.
The police force under Thatcher were a politicised private militia who wouldn’t have felt out of place in a South American dictatorship
It’s no wonder she was such good mates with Pinochet. Same MO.
Hillsborough and Orgreave were the inevitable result of that. A violent mob of a police force that operated with government sanctioned impunity
I saw cops waving their wage packets (and some of their arses) at miners' wives on a picket line at the time. They were loving it. I knew a local cop (Pendle area) who couldn't wait to get down there for a bit of aggro and the overtime. Whatever Scargill and the union did ( Did he really clear off with 'millions'?) wasn't a patch on the Tories and the police. They are the enemy, always have been and always will be.
I'll be interested to watch the programme. I was aware of it all, but it didn't really touch the farming community I was brought up in. My abiding memory of the time was being driven to Uni for the first time and seeing a seemingly endless convoy of lorries carrying strike-breaking coal along the M4 - literally miles, and miles of lorries - most of them with 'Mad Max' style grids welded over the cabs as people had taken to dropping concrete blocks onto them from motorway bridges. I do think we came close to civil war.
Thatcher’s aim was to destroy the organised working class
...and Scargill's ego, lack of concern for union members, and tactical ineptitude gave her enormous help.
(It's a bit more complicated than him making off with millions though, more like getting improvements to his house and a flat in the Barbican paid for, other financial irregularities with funds from Libia may have been down to incompetence. All doubtless googleable. And he didn't make off. Far from it, he became NUM president for life.)
I was at Uni during the strike, home was Yorkshire and my grandfather was a retired miner. Mining killed him and he wanted none of his children or grandchildren to have to work in the mining industry.
To be able to understand anything about the miners strike, you have to understand the unions, the economy at the time and public attitudes. It was a total shitshow. Mining was dying and Thatcher could have just let it die. Scargill (and many others) knew that mining was dying and used that as an excuse to pick a, literally, fight with Thatcher's government. Remember in those days, Thatcher was seen by many as a good thing after the failure of the Labour government. The country still easily recalled the 3 day week triggered by the striking miners.
None of this excuses anyone from what happened in the mining towns and villages. Perhaps if he unions and government had worked together, it could have reduced the impact and created some long term benefits. But the animosity at this time was far to great for this to even begin . No one walks away from this period with any credit.
We took my son's to see the stage show of "Billy Elliott". I struggled to explain the background because I still find it painful and deeply upsetting.
creakingdoor
Free Member
When I left school at 17 I worked for a print company for a while. There was a Sogat member on the shop floor who was so useless at every job he was given (he’d deliberately sabotage work) he was given a chair in the corner and told to sit and do nothing all day. Because he was a union member he couldn’t be sacked. He’d sit under the open tread stairs and try to look up the skirts of the office girls. Now while I agree that unions have had their place in protecting legitimate workers rights, there comes a point when their stance is indefensible. Issues like this damaged their image as they couldn’t tell the good cases from the bad.
A boss I worked for was a nasty piece of work and only ultimately lost his job when it was found out he had been bringing in his own modem (late 90's) and looking at kiddie porn on his work PC. The company was very reluctant to bring the police in, it was only when someone in the IT dept. said he was contacting the police irrelevant of what management said, that they were informed.
I'm guessing the peudophile boss and the managers that tried to cover for him weren't in a union.
So there's that.
The moral being that sh*ts will be sh*ts, union or not and sometimes they are protected. Union or not.
Scargill was wrong to pick that hill to die on, he knew the pits were going, he could have negotiated an exit with compensation/investment. However the truth is that Thatcher needed to teach uppity working people a lesson, the problem is that lesson extends to over 40 years of abandonment of certain communities. Its history and many have passed away and somehow the Tories achieved the redwall.
I was at a protest last year in Sheffield in support of the nurses and I saw a bloke ('blimey, he looks familiar') and yes it was Arthur Scargill, and he spoke very well. He hasn't completely retired to the Bahamas.
Contrary to popular belief union members can be sacked.
he could have negotiated an exit with compensation/investment
I don't think history, and the actions taken in other areas where different industries and communities were similarly treated but went without putting up such a fight, would support your theory.
Contrary to popular belief union members can be sacked.
Yeah but it is a nice anti union myth to believe, the same people probably believe their bosses when they tell them they shouldn't discuss pay with their workmates because he has given them a special deal.
The miners were objectively the wrong target in that the industry was quite productive, but a symbol of union power to be broken. The closed shop, multiple unions in the work place taking turns to go on strike, a resistance to change, secret ballots... were the imortant issues that needed adressing if the work place were to be democratised and a cooperative rather than conflictiual relationship established in the work place. I'd just come out of a 'labour economics and industrial realtions' option at uni and it was clear that there were better examples of how to negotiate collectively around the world. Behaviour on both sides looked suicidal, it was. The pits were closed and Thatcher eventually kicked by her own party then finishing her life loathed and demented.
Some of the reforms that came out of the strike made the UK more attractive to inward investment - the strike enabled those changes, the unions were seen to be unreasonable, Skargill played into Thatcher's hands. Without those reforms I don't think the Japanese and Germans would have invested in the UK as they did. However, there's a balance and further long terms of the Conservative governments eroding worker/human rights culminating in Brexit have left the UK worker's lot an unhappy one. And I don't see Karmer changing that.
T'm sure the UK being the most unequal country in Europe makes it very attractive for 'inward investment' (much of which would be a government subsidy). Capitalism exists to benefit capitalists not workers, you need to pick a side.
…and Scargill’s ego, lack of concern for union members, and tactical ineptitude gave her enormous help.
In a different world the Gov and the Unions would've sat around a table a thrashed out a deal, but that suited neither party. Both Thatcher and Scargill were fighting the battle they wanted, and **** everybody else. The behaviour of Scargill post Union and retirement (the London flat, the dodgy negotiations, the endless rows between him and the Union about money that wasn't his) have done nothing for his legacy overshadowing things like the fact that the secret plan by the Tories to shut the mines which they denied at the time and he warned publicly at the time about turned out to be true.
That we're still in the shadow of it all I will lay at Scargill's and well as Thatcher's feet, both of them intransigent idiots
I've been on all sides; employee, employer, investor. No need to pick a side. I'd rather work for a capitalist than a communist, and socialism still depends on capitalism. The Basque coopertives were/are held up as an alternative model, they're quite small though. You then become an investor, an employee and employer all at the same time.
Many british workers are capitalists through their pension investements.
And I don’t see Karmer changing that.
I'm not sure it's in my gift to give? 😉
'The miners were objectively the wrong target in that the industry was quite productive, but a symbol of union power to be broken.'
The industry as a whole wasn't productive - parts were like Noots , but large parts were not - if they were they wouldn't have required heavy subsidisation, and would have continued working. The rundown of the industry had started in the early 60's, and this was the messy end for some traditional areas.
I'd bear in mind that reducing union power was a part of the 1979 manifesto, and a pretty popular part to boot. It makes a lot more sense with the problems of the 70's as context
