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Should the journo involved be charged with espionage?
Personally I think the journalist/paper should be charged with something; as diplomatic material I don't know whether they'd be covered by the Official Secrets Act or similar legislation.
Journalist/paper nope. Although I think the civil service could, and should, forget to include them in briefings for a while.
Whoever leaked it though should be gone after. No public interest defence for it.
nope unless the paper asked them to do it. The free press is exactly that free. If they are given information they are free to publish it. Hence the reason my Assange is charged with helping Chelsea Manning because its the only way they can punish him. Why the press are not up in arms about it is beyond me.
No but the person who leaked it should as there was nothing there really worth exposing in the national interest.
I would love to know the motivation of the leaker...
The person could be pro Farage, hoping he might become ambassador or anti-Brexit, knowing it will upset Trump and dash any trade deal etc...
No as it’s not sensitive material.
The journo is pro-farrage
No as it’s not sensitive material.
But not necessarily without consequence. I think that the Ambassador is now going to resign and it could in theory jeopardize post-brexit trade talks (although Trump seems to be taking umbrage at the Ambassador specifically rather than the UK in general).
I'd be interested to know whether the leak came from the Diplomatic Service (possibly from the USA directly) or Whitehall.
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Ffs ambassador has just resigned 🙁
nope unless the paper asked them to do it. The free press is exactly that free.
Indeed.
And it is in the public interest, Trump is a dick.
Thats widely known.
🤷♂️
To be replaced by Piers Morgan.
Farage says he could be useful in the role.
But not necessarily without consequence. I think that the Ambassador is now going to resign and it could in theory jeopardize post-brexit trade talks (although Trump seems to be taking umbrage at the Ambassador specifically rather than the UK in general).
It's still not sensitive material so doesn't warrant espionage. He resigned about an hour ago.
Farage says he’d most likely bring in a Pole.
FIFM
I would love to know the motivation of the leaker
The journalist who broke the story is a mate of Lynton Crosby who is running Boris' campaign
No as it’s not sensitive material
Err yes it was. My understanding is it was marked OFFICIAL-SENSITIVE, I'd argue - given the diplomatic fall-out - it should have been SECRET (at least some of the information). Even handling OFF-SENS stuff though comes with a lot of conditions (I would expect them to have signed the Official Secrets Act for starters). If I leaked OFF-SENS info in my role I'd by fired, and rightly so. Sure sometimes it would be in the public interest but this isn't one of those times.
He should've just doubled down on it, and told them to fire him if they had a problem with the truth.
He was boned either way.
Crooked as. Ambassador was doing his job and the motives here are pure political chicanery. I presume the ambassador will get whatever is the next best gig (Australia?). The whole affair continues to underline how toxic the White House cartel is though. Zero public interest angle here.
My understanding is it was marked OFFICIAL-SENSITIVE,
Not how I understood it but I may have missed that claim.
The truth is that there was a fight with Trump over the last Ferrero Rocher at the Ambassador's Party.
Sounds like a plot to allow Boris to instate his choice of ambassador once he's PM. Then him and the Trumpinator can make sweet business deals together that will guarantee a glorious future for both our countries.
Not.
Will trump resign after what he has said about our prime minister and capital 's mayor?
Will Dumbojo resign over what he said about trump?
Ffs ambassador has just resigned
I knew his time was up when they used the immortal words "has the full support of the Government".
He was due to retire at the end of the year anyway I think, this is a power grab.
Jesus wept, there stuff happening now almost on a weekly basis that would have been dismissed as too sensational for fiction a few years ago.
I bet we'll never know who was behind the link, but it must have been someone with close ties to the Foreign Office, it was one of Boris' minions wasn't it...
"in 2015 Johnson has this to say about the then Presidential hopeful: “Donald Trump’s ill-informed comments are complete and utter nonsense. I think he’s betraying a quite stupefying ignorance that makes him frankly unfit to hold the office of President of the United State"
Maybe he will resign when he becomes PM or is it fake news?
Maybe the yanks hacked us.
Leaker should be tracked down and sacked with extreme prejudice (loss of pension, severe tax audit and a very accurate reference detailing his/her actions that led to the sacking) and the journalist should have a nocturnal visit from an agency asking him to think carefully about his/her future story choices.
If leaker was acting under orders then the trail should be followed.
The political situation in this country is absolutely shameful. All this factional infighting and naked self-interest mean that usual norms have gone right out of the window.
A journalist was saying the other week how he had received links from ministers actually during cabinet meetings. They weren't even bothering to wait until they got out before they started leaking stuff. They were doing it live, in real time
They're behaving like some kind of medieval feudal court, and the future of the country is neither here nor there and the civil servants are all deemed as expendable collateral damage. This particular one has got Boris (or his minions) fingerprints all over it.
Isabel Oakeshott who broke the story certainly hangs out with some quite Brexity people... Not to get all conspiracy theorist but it does seem quite coincidental...
https://twitter.com/arusbridger/status/1148866747581259776
It's interesting that he resigned after BoJo "refused to say" if he would have asked for a resignation or not.
To me the implication is:
"you can jump now, with a modicum of dignity, or I'll boot you and install my own person in post in a few weeks anyway..."
Clearly UK civil servants are having to weigh up the next (probable) administration already...
Be interested to see if Gavin Williamson was on the distribution list of the information. Both as a known leaker and a central "team Boris" member
Didn't realise it was Oakeshott. Dodgy as F.
Trouble is, there are too many options for the leaker on her contact list. It's like an Agatha Christie novel, everyone has a motive.
Official secrets act has to be signed up to (ie. as part of an employment contract), so no default responsibilities on public.
If this wasn't marked official sensitive by the ambassador then that was a disciplinary offence in itself given the content.
From the Guardian today
But it is his roles prior to that as Blair’s top adviser on Europe and as the permanent representative to the EU under Brown that led to his vilification by Conservative Brexit supporters, who regard him as an arch Europhile
There is your motive.
https://amp.businessinsider.com/video-of-boris-johnson-insulting-trump-broadcast-onto-big-ben-2019-6. So,,, boris's got to go then? I don't see why the diplomat who told the truth should go. But hey, it's his decision 🙄
The political situation in this country is absolutely shameful
We're certainly in the death spiral now.
Putin must be laughing his arse off as he watches this absolute clown parade.
And yet the majority of Tory members would have him (trump) as our PM
I despair for our future
Excellent point nofx
Woah! I for one am glad that this leak happened. Up until this point I was under the impression that Trump was a super nice human being. Shocked beyond belief that he’s actually a massive ****ing tool.
Good to see the Ambassador has resigned.
The Ambassador can describe the President however he wished but once the official information is leaked good or bad there is a security breach and he should be held responsible.
Whoever leaked the memo should be prosecuted as well.
As for blaming everything Putin to deflect the leaked memo that is just a lazy argument.
Whether people like President Trump or not that is their personal views but being an Ambassador he should have known better.
So,,, boris’s got to go then? I don’t see why the diplomat who told the truth should go. But hey, it’s his decision 🙄
Yes, he should go too but who is going to make him go? You have No future PM. 🤣
Whether people like President Trump or not that is their personal views but being an Ambassador he should have known better.
Its his job to tell people whats what and the truth surely?
Its his job to tell people whats what and the truth surely?
It is for the govt officials to know amongst themselves that rather than for public consumption.
They can describe however negative they wish on any head of state in their own official time beyond the public.
But once the information is leaked then someone needs to be held responsible.
Yes, he should go too but who is going to make him go? You have No future PM. 🤣
We’ve had a “no future PM” she’s gone, let’s have a PM with a Future.
🤷♂️
And IMO, you can’t hide behind Diplomatic Immunity when the truth is involved.
You wouldn’t expect a Diplomat to lie under oath, but we seem to have Boris who lies at every opportunity. So it’s about time all those lies come to the for, and we we make our own decisions about the current crop of lying Tory retards.
IMO
It’s hardly a secret that he’s a dick though. Wish I had that job, it’d be a breeze.
Trump - dick
Farage - dick
Putin - dick
Etc
Where do I apply to be an ambassador?
.. let’s have a PM with a Future.
You have None! Nil! None of the ones from all the main parties.
... but we seem to have Boris who lies at every opportunity.
IMO all politicians will try to get away with whatever they can cos it is in their nature of their job. Some may use nice words that make you feel good about them while others simply not as polished in the dark art.
So it’s about time all those lies come to the for, and we we make our own decisions about the current crop of lying Tory retards.
Only Tories? You have too much faith in politicians ... 😃
The correct response should be ALL of them in all the political parties.
Trump – dick
Farage – dick
Putin – dick
Etc
Only them? 😄
Official secrets act has to be signed up to (ie. as part of an employment contract), so no default responsibilities on public.
Uncorrect. You're bound by it without signing - just like the other Acts of Parliament.
<Tin foil hat>
Is this a dead cat on the table moment?
Every one has stopped talking about tRump and his links to
sex trafficker jeffrey epstein, to concentrate on a tiff caused by
what a ambassador said in confidential email.
</Tin foil hat>
Makes you think 🤔
There is always a deflecting tirade when Trumps around.
The Ambassador can describe the President however he wished but once the official information is leaked good or bad there is a security breach and he should be held responsible.
Go on then, I know it's Chewy so it's not going to make any sense, but would you care to explain how the author of a report in another continent should be responsible for a leak of extracts of it from a source in Whitehall? Bloke on R4 (ex ambassador) yesterday explained that a report from an ambassador would have read by a minimum of 100 people in Whitehall, far more if the information was less sensitive.
I'm normally all up for freedom of the press but the Mail on Sunday should be feeling pretty shitty right now. The information shared was not earth shattering so I'm not convinced it was in the public interest to damage relationships between the two countries by publishing it. I suppose the only thing we have had emphasised (again) what a pustulating knob Trump is and (again) what a tool BJ is too.
Journalist/paper nope. Although I think the civil service could, and should, forget to include them in briefings for a while.
Civil servants don't brief journos as a rule. They we issue quotes and statements, and comms teams arrange interviews with ministers, but interacting directly with journalists isn't really how it goes. That's what special advisers - who are appointed directly by ministers - are for (they're notorious for leaking things too).
I know it’s Chewy so it’s not going to make any sense, but would you care to explain...
Please don't.
I think there's more of this to come once Johnson is PM
Only the most fawning yes men will survive the cull
We are truly the yanks bitch now.
The Ambassador can describe the President however he wished but once the official information is leaked good or bad there is a security breach and he should be held responsible
WTAF? Assuming he followed the correct protocol (correctly classified, correct recipients and correct network used for information of that classification level) when sending the reports (and there's nothing to suggest he didn't) then that's where his responsibility ends. Those receiving and disseminating the information take over responsibility for it's handling.
Chewke being his usual obtuse self, I see. The ambassador was doing exactly what ambassadors do all the time, it’s his job, or part of it, to keep his government up to date on the inside workings of the country to which he’s posted.
There was even an American woman on the radio saying that all he had written was what everyone in Washington knew anyway! Any responsibility for this leak lies, purely and simply, with someone at this end with an agenda that’s clearly pro-Trump, indulging in a blatant ass-kissing exercise.
The New Yorker’s take on it:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/boris-johnson-shows-that-hes-donald-trumps-poodle
What's really depressing is the Tory MPs toadying up to Johnson won't condem him for throwing darroch under a bus.
Whatever spad, civil servant or minister leaked this is hopefully crapping themselves right now.
Unfortunately I fear they'll get away with it & the brexiters will just be emboldened to do it again & again. No matter the damage to the country & government.
Peston reckons this was Johnson sending a warning to the civil service, I cannot see thats any way to be PM. It will only foster resentment
A beautiful foreshadowing of our special relationship when Europe gets fed up of our shit and we have no friends.
There was even an American woman on the radio saying that all he had written was what everyone in Washington knew anyway!
Its all things that people within the Whitehouse have already written- not in confidential cables but in national newspapers.
all the leaked information revealed was that the ambassador was able to summarise the information very eloquently.
Peston reckons this was Johnson sending a warning to the civil service
For a while now the Brexiteers have been lining up civil servants to cop the blame for the disaster that Brexit is bound to be. Boris is just drawing up the battle lines for when the blamestorming begins.
I do hope Dumbojo gets an opportunity to display his allegiance to his country of birth by sending our gallant boys to be the first slaughtered in Iran.
Don't need to be JHJ to know this was politically motivated.
I would recommend to anyone trying to avoid ill-informed dirge that the killfile is extremely effective. If you're lucky, you can avoid the imminent non-sequitur.
FastHaggis sed> The truth is that there was a fight with Trump over the last Ferrero Rocher at the Ambassador’s Party.
Balls.
Go on then, I know it’s Chewy so it’s not going to make any sense, but would you care to explain how the author of a report in another continent should be responsible for a leak of extracts of it from a source in Whitehall?
Ford make cars. If someone gets drunk, drives a Ford car and runs someone over then it's Ford who should be held responsible as if they hadn't made the car the accident wouldn't have happened. It's called chewkw logic
The ambassador's assesment of Trump might very well be correct, he might not be in any way to blame for the leak, but once his comments became public his position became untenable. He has to be able to work with the Trump regime or there's no point him being there. In fact i'm suprised he took so long to resign, totally unfortunate but that's life and life isn't fair.
Isn't this like "leaking" a recipe for egg and chips?
His ability to do his job became untenable once Trump refused to engage with him and un-invited him to various meetings and functions. This is the action of a pathetic narcissist rather than a politician and Trump not only disrespects the normal discourse of diplomacy (its not the first time he's frozen out ambassadors), but also disrespects the office of the President of the United States.
I wish Trump was clever enough to be doing things for a political end no matter how mischievous it might be, but the reality is he's just spitting his dummy out like a child in a school playground and hitting back at someone who'd called him a name. Acting like a spineless bully. He's taken it personally and reacted in a personal way. unprofessional. Unintelligent. Just a bit sad and pathetic really.
Duplomacy is a shallow affair with nothing honourable about it. An ambassador is only effective if they are credible. Their job is to smile politely in public whilst bitching about their hosts in private. Whilst everyone on all sides knows this to be the case, if your bitching is exposed your credibility is gone and there's no point you staying there.
Is it just me that suspects that at any other period in our history we would have shrugged our shoulders, and instructed our chap to stay put until the next president takes office?
With the shower of bastards we have in charge now, and the fact that we're about to be reduced to a point where we have all the influence of a f***ing banana Republic, it's no wonder he had to quit.
Duplomacy is a shallow affair
It’s far from it.
This is the action of a pathetic narcissist
thats the funny thing
Darroch said he 'radiated insecurity'
his 2 day twitter tantrum has proven Darroch 100% correct
And unfortunately it will only reinforce Trump's sense of self-importance and inflate his ego. I still wonder in his heart if he's knows he's a complete turd and chooses to act however it suits him or if just completely delusional and thinks his behaviour is normal
As a narcissist, I suspect he thinks he's cleverer and actually superior to everyone else, and that his behaviour is just that which enables him to be superior...
I think the plan is to appoint Farage as the next ambassador and Boris will continue to develop a relationship with the Brexit party. I never thought I’d be hoping for Jeremy Hunt to win anything.
The Grauniad’s take on the whole sorry cluster****:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/11/uk-trump-darroch-new-phase-special-relationship
That Grauniad article paints a bloody grim picture...